View Poll Results: Will the loose stuff stay put?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • Naw. It won't even last to the next rain.

    1 25.00%
  • The next rain will wipe it out for sure.

    0 0%
  • I give it through next winter, then it'll be just the same as before.

    2 50.00%
  • That stuff is there to stay, fo sheezy.

    1 25.00%
Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    If you have to ask...
    Reputation: miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    650

    Peñasquitos riders: A Poll

    Let's take sides. I say that the landfill at the bottom of the Sh!ts and the new loose stuff on the Cobbles don't survive the next storm.
    Not to cast aspersions on the trail work done there (sorry I couldn't make it last time, EBasil- I had to work) but I simply don't see that loose sand staying put.

    What does everyone else think?


    miles

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    17
    Those stairs really suck. They are like little sand pits, a little tricky when you are haulin' down... The sand on the cobbles isn't too bad...

  3. #3
    "Ride Lots" - Eddie Mercx
    Reputation: Yeti_Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    1,275

    I don't really see

    Quote Originally Posted by miles
    Let's take sides. I say that the landfill at the bottom of the Sh!ts and the new loose stuff on the Cobbles don't survive the next storm.
    Not to cast aspersions on the trail work done there (sorry I couldn't make it last time, EBasil- I had to work) but I simply don't see that loose sand staying put.

    What does everyone else think?


    miles
    why some of the changes were made. the bottom of the shits has been in it's previous condition for years but now it all of a sudden was necessary to change? filling in the ditch with rocks and then spreading sand over the rocks doesn't seem like the best way to repair the damage either. sure, there is a new water redirection point above the bit ditch but one good rain and all that sand is history leaving a bit ditch full of rocks. the stairs are downright dangerous now since you go over one and your front end wants to sink into the sand. i'm just confused why this new section is "better" now than it was for bikes OR horses.

    as far as the changes on the cobbles goes, same kind of thing. the rut, which was perfectly smooth and easily ridden is now full of sand. again, there are water direction aids on the trail but same argument as before. fillthe rut with sand which won't pack down until we get rain but that same rain will cause the sand to wash down the trail. I just don't get it.

    EBasil, I know you guys put in a lot of hard work and I'll hopefully be out there for the next one but man o man. I also know that you're best intentions don't always match that of the ranger so you're simply helping out and making the needs of the bikers known even if all groups must be satisfied. we know you did a lot to open up new trails so if that means sacrificing a bit on others than so be it. But, I don't think anybody who rides out there regularly will argue that tha "improvements" to the trail have taken a bit away from what it once was.

    YR

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtdbike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    306

    Idea!

    Its been a six months since I ridden Del Mar Mesa and have to check out the results of recent trail maintenance labors. I dedicate a lot of time to trail maintenance out at Flightline. Now the dirt is so soft and silty in some areas which forms up to six inches deep in about one week right after I scrape it. I guess the problem is lack of rain and not enough clay and rocky soil. The photo is of a tight short steep chute (approx. 20' vert drop) that has been experiencing more traffic lately which happens to be one of the silty areas causing too much erosion fast. I have worked on this spot so many times now and the only solution is to put in sections of latter ramps. Plus the latter ramps will scare off the kooks.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EBasil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,062

    Idea!

    Bad poll, Miles, because it doesn't represent what was done to those trails. Here's the dealio:

    Upper Cobblestone: the sluiced rain rut was about 18 months old and getting worse. By its nature, it would continue to get worse, since it trapped all on-trail water into itself...making it worse with every rain. No "sand" was added to that rut: that clay-from-hell, adobe soil breaks down into siltiness when it's broken and dry. The existing soil and rock was used to fill and regrade the trail. If we get a rain on it, that section of Cobbles will harden in, as you know if you ride Upper Cobbles where the work was done in January...and you do ride there, so you know. We need rain. One good day would be nice, two days of light rain would be better. No sand was added to the "red ruts" section, either. That's the existing soil and it sucks how soft it is after the work. Pray for rain and it will be marvelous if your pleas are answered. That silty soil turns to freakin; concrete once it gets wet, packs down and dries.

    Real Sand was removed from the two beach sections down below the work areas and hauled back up the trail to dump in ruts. I don't really miss the sand from where it was pulled, but didn't see the need to put it where it was moved to. THAT will certainly wash back down the trail over time, because it cannot harden in.

    The Shits is a whole different ballgame: none of the filling work was done on the trailwork day, and some of the soils used ARE sand: it came from just downstream from the base of the trail, where it has been washing to. There are three elements to the trail work done there: 1) widening the opening to the "new" equestrian trail; 2) repairing erosion damage to the base of the trail; 3) installing "equestrian friendly" measures for the entrance to their new trail. I guess the widening of that notch is a non-issue, since it doesn't really affect mtb riders.

    The really fun ruts at the base of The Shits were "erosion damage", even though they were darn fun to ride. Right where the rut passed by the entrance to the Walden Pond Equestrian Trail, it was cobbly and appeared to be worsening to the Ranger. Some equestrians are very sketched by those cobbly sections, since some horses will trip, toss a shoe or bruise the inner section of the hoof on them, so the Ranger wanted to do something to preserve the tread/entrance to their trail: rut-filling time, all the way up the curve. It's just about like it was ten years ago, and although I miss the ruts ---things change.

    Now, those damn steps are making me learn to be a better rider, and the silty sand dredged up from the arroyo would not have been any MTB-rider's choice for fill dirt. I'm not even sure it was first choice for the Ranger/crew that did the work...it's what was there. Having taken a very close-up look at the silt on my first trip down the stairs, I dont' think it's clayey enough to harden in, and expect there will be work to do out there by the end of this season.

    So, who's going to volunteer to meet the Ranger onsite, develop a plan and then come out and do some trail work to fix it?

    Something to remember: The Shits still has the "closed trail" (to everyone) status that former Ranger Bill Lawrence put on it. Maybe, if the MTB community steps up to support more work on it to make it drain water, instead of rutting, we can change that status. A well-drained trail doesn't have to suck, but closed or eradicated ones do.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: EBasil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,062
    Quote Originally Posted by mtdbike
    Its been a six months since I ridden Del Mar Mesa and have to check out the results of recent trail maintenance labors. I dedicate a lot of time to trail maintenance out at Flightline. Now the dirt is so soft and silty in some areas which forms up to six inches deep in about one week right after I scrape it. I guess the problem is lack of rain and not enough clay and rocky soil. The photo is of a tight short steep chute (approx. 20' vert drop) that has been experiencing more traffic lately which happens to be one of the silty areas causing too much erosion fast. I have worked on this spot so many times now and the only solution is to put in sections of latter ramps. Plus the latter ramps will scare off the kooks.
    Yeah, in our soils and with topography like that, the only lasting fix will be one that diverts water off the trail, itself. The trail may still be steep, but if it doesn't have to carry an accellerated, silt-laden water load from upper areas, it won't rut so badly (except from use). Of course, it's best to wait until just before rains come, but you want to find places above where you can break down outer edges to let water "sheet off" instead of sluicing, divert water with a bump or dip-drain, or best-yet: combine those measures so none of them have to be too extreme or artificial looking.


    Not steep, but similar issues hopefully resolved.

Similar Threads

  1. Florida riders, what tires are you using?
    By Dave. in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-30-2005, 06:43 PM
  2. Nat'l Trails Day in Los Penasquitos Canyon
    By EBasil in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-03-2004, 09:48 AM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-22-2004, 09:37 PM
  4. Poll: What does the sport need to grow?
    By DoothaBartman in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-05-2004, 01:43 PM
  5. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-27-2004, 05:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •