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  1. #1
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    Palm Canyon UncleMTB 50th ride?

    How about a Palm Canyon ride to celebrate UncleMTB's 50th birthday in early February? Saturday February 4th or 11th? This ride requires some logistics, including self-shuttling, so it would be nice if someone from down south did some of the planning. We had a great time last spring. Check out the ride reports, photos and videos:

    Palm Spring epic pics

    http://www.mountainbikebill.com/PalmCanyon.htm

    http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike/PalmSprings/index.htm

  2. #2
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    I might be able to make it

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    How about a Palm Canyon ride to celebrate UncleMTB's 50th birthday in early February? Saturday February 4th or 11th? This ride requires some logistics, including self-shuttling, so it would be nice if someone from down south did some of the planning. We had a great time last spring. Check out the ride reports, photos and videos:
    not sure if I can though. it'll be a pretty late decision for me if I can make it.

    My baby is due 1/29/06 so I'm not sure if I'll be granted a full day furlough that soon after birth or not..............we'll see.

    YR

  3. #3
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    wife + newborn = epic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    My baby is due 1/29/06 so I'm not sure if I'll be granted a full day furlough that soon after birth or not..............we'll see.

    YR
    Congrats YR, but....

    Heh, um good luck on that one... like your wife's letting you leave for an all day epic with a week old baby. You'll be lucky to ride around the block


    I might be in on this ride, been wanting to hit it up for some time now.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    How about a Palm Canyon ride to celebrate UncleMTB's 50th birthday in early February? Saturday February 4th or 11th? This ride requires some logistics, including self-shuttling, so it would be nice if someone from down south did some of the planning. We had a great time last spring. Check out the ride reports, photos and videos:

    Palm Spring epic pics

    http://www.mountainbikebill.com/PalmCanyon.htm

    http://arnica.csustan.edu/mtbike/PalmSprings/index.htm
    If you can ride on Sunday the 5th, I can show the way. I'll cover you and UncleMTB for the shuttle. (I should even have a roomier truck by then)

    We will plan more as things develop, but all plan on your entire day being out on this 31 mileish route. According to how many decide to do this ride, well setup an A and an A Minus group. This route is not for B groups (mostly based on length/endurance requirements).

    Shuttle setups can be tricky so that will be the biggest logistics crunch.

    -Bill

  5. #5
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    hehehe

    Quote Originally Posted by burner
    Congrats YR, but....

    Heh, um good luck on that one... like your wife's letting you leave for an all day epic with a week old baby. You'll be lucky to ride around the block


    I might be in on this ride, been wanting to hit it up for some time now.
    yeah, I know it's pretty much wishful thinking.............I've already had to back out of a fantastic New Year's Day epic since I can't be gone that long. Man, who'd ever thought parenthood would cut into my riding time! ;-)

    on the plus side, I can still remember driving home from a morning ride at Martha's Grove/Sycamore Canyon 2 1/2 years ago when my wife called me to ask how long I'd be until I got home. I said, 20 minutes why? Cuz my water just broke! rush home, jump in the shower and then head to the hospital. 36 freaking hours later..........My son finally decided to come out and see us!

    YR

  6. #6
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    We're in!

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    If you can ride on Sunday the 5th, I can show the way. I'll cover you and UncleMTB for the shuttle.
    Just talked to Tim and we're in! I'm getting him down there as a birthday present and you can do the rest. You did a masterful job last year. Really looking forward to it, especially since I have both a better bike and helmet-cam system this year.

  7. #7
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    I've been putting off a ride down that way for too long, I'm in. Plus, I need a little idea of what that big five-oh ride is like, mine's coming real soon.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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    Thanks Bill...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    If you can ride on Sunday the 5th, I can show the way. I'll cover you and UncleMTB for the shuttle. (I should even have a roomier truck by then)

    We will plan more as things develop, but all plan on your entire day being out on this 31 mileish route. According to how many decide to do this ride, well setup an A and an A Minus group. This route is not for B groups (mostly based on length/endurance requirements).

    Shuttle setups can be tricky so that will be the biggest logistics crunch.

    -Bill
    ...It's going to get tougher to do SoCal with my son tranfering to Va...

    I've been looking forward to a big ride for my B-day and I couldn't swing the Copper Canyon deal...maybe for my 60th...I'll see what Steve does for his and then decide!

    See you on the 5th of Feb...
    Tim

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    Good job! I'm in!

    Count me in as well with some of my OC peeps.

    Can't wait to hit the Dry Wash Trail aka Highway to Hell again:




    Photo by Wherewolf

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Just talked to Tim and we're in! I'm getting him down there as a birthday present and you can do the rest. You did a masterful job last year. Really looking forward to it, especially since I have both a better bike and helmet-cam system this year.
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  10. #10
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    I would like to come

    Mind if I tag along? I can fit two in comfort, four a little cramped.
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  11. #11
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    Basdiges...

    That's my wife's b-day. The 24 Hrs of Laguna Seca is mother's day weekend too.

    I've got AZSF pencilled in though...

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    Good job! Oh Yeah....

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    How about a Palm Canyon ride to celebrate UncleMTB's 50th birthday in early February? Saturday February 4th or 11th?

    We did the Pinion Flats ride this last Friday with a small group in a little over 6 hours and had a ball... except for the 3 miles of the sandy wash up to Dunn's Road. Very glad that I had read one of the threads of a previous Pinion Flats ride... I took my body armor and was glad I did! Other than a couple of flats, our group had a great ride. Perfect time to ride weather-wise.

    How does the Palm Canyon Ride compare to the Pinion Flats ride??? I'd go back in a heart beat!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtber3737
    We did the Pinion Flats ride this last Friday with a small group in a little over 6 hours and had a ball... except for the 3 miles of the sandy wash up to Dunn's Road. Very glad that I had read one of the threads of a previous Pinion Flats ride... I took my body armor and was glad I did! Other than a couple of flats, our group had a great ride. Perfect time to ride weather-wise.

    How does the Palm Canyon Ride compare to the Pinion Flats ride??? I'd go back in a heart beat!
    The Pinion Flats trail joins the Palm Canyon trail after about 4 miles at in the canyon bottom. The Pinion Flats trail is a faster trail than the traditional Palm Canyon trail, but top of Palm Canyon is very narrow, often rugged and more exposed that is better "sipped" than "chugged". Those scared of heights usually get nervous on parts of that section. They are both good trails.

  14. #14
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    Sunday February 5th is Super Bowl Sunday.

    Looks like I'm out.
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    Palm Canyon Qualifier List

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMountainHop
    Mind if I tag along? I can fit two in comfort, four a little cramped.
    Posting here, pretty much makes this an open invite ride.

    General Rule for those deciding to do this ride:

    This is a big freaking ride at 31 miles over some rugged terrain and you may end up out there all day. This ride really stresses cardio-endurance and while falling into an mid-intermediate level on the technical arena for the majority of the ride there are some hairy sections (The route we are going), mostly in the later half of the ride.

    If you have never done an "epic", this may not be your best ride choice for your first one.

    Here are a couple of SoCal trail routes that I have done that I think if you can do one of these rides you'll be okay to do this ride.

    - You have started at the bottom of Noble, rode up the pavement and done Indian Truck Trail to Noble, did the Big Laguna Trail and then went down Noble.

    - You have gone up Harding Truck Trail, over Santiago Peak, down Holy Jim and looped back to the Harding Truck Trail. (Thats harder climbing, but matches endurance drain)

    - You have done the Cannell Plunge ride in Kernville.

    For the other Palm Canyon Vets here, what other trails do you think will put someone in the "okay to do this ride" category?

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    New question here. OK...Let me get this straight....

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    The Pinion Flats trail joins the Palm Canyon trail after about 4 miles at in the canyon bottom. The Pinion Flats trail is a faster trail than the traditional Palm Canyon trail, but top of Palm Canyon is very narrow, often rugged and more exposed that is better "sipped" than "chugged". Those scared of heights usually get nervous on parts of that section. They are both good trails.
    the bottom portion of the Pinion Flats Trail is the same as the Palm Canyon Trail.. up that great sand wash (read walk!), ends up at Dunns Road to the tractor, then up the hill and down that great downhill single track & finally down the fire road back to civilization?

    I would imiagine the that snady wash has a lot of water in it right now from the rains and will be rideable soon after?

    Last question: As I understand it, the Pinion Flats ride is closed from Jan through June due to the mountain goats.. is the Palm Canyon Trail effected as well with this closure?

    Thanks Bill for the info & Happy New Year... perhaps we'll get to ride together in the future.

    Best,

    Gregg

  17. #17
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    I'm supposed

    to be training for a double century for the 18th (Butterfield Double Century), but I guess I could kind of call this training too,huh? If it's open I'm in!

    I believe the Palm Springs century is the same day.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtber3737
    the bottom portion of the Pinion Flats Trail is the same as the Palm Canyon Trail.. up that great sand wash (read walk!), ends up at Dunns Road to the tractor, then up the hill and down that great downhill single track & finally down the fire road back to civilization?

    I would imiagine the that snady wash has a lot of water in it right now from the rains and will be rideable soon after?

    Last question: As I understand it, the Pinion Flats ride is closed from Jan through June due to the mountain goats.. is the Palm Canyon Trail effected as well with this closure?

    Thanks Bill for the info & Happy New Year... perhaps we'll get to ride together in the future.

    Best,

    Gregg
    The Pinion Flats trail ends where it drops into canyon bottom which is <a href="http://www.mountainbikebill.com/images/Trails/PinyonFlats/Palm_Canyon_-_Pinyon_Pines_Loop.JPG">Point D on this Map</a>. After that point you are on the Palm Canyon trail until you hit the bottom on the sandy climb (Dry Wash Road).

    The voluntary closure area for the sheep lambing season includes all of Dunn Road on BLM land so you are not "volunteering" for the 1/2 mile section between the top of the sandy climb to the top of the Hahn Buena Vista trail. <a href="http://www.mountainbikebill.com/images/Trails/PalmCanyon/PalmCanyonMap-7.5-North-8.5X14.jpg">(Between Point M and N on this map)</a>.

    Here is some <a href="http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:OPB8oODVDrYJ:www.ca.blm.gov/pdfs/cdd_pdfs/stip-bighorn_3-01.pdf+Bighorn+sheep+lambing+closure+dunn+road&hl= en">411</a>on the voluntary closure.
    Last edited by mtbbill; 01-03-2006 at 10:48 AM.

  19. #19
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    hmmmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Sunday February 5th is Super Bowl Sunday.

    Looks like I'm out.

    that may change things for me too.........If Seattle makes it, no way in he!! I'm missing hte game. if they don't I still may not miss the game. We'll see...........

    YR

  20. #20
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    Bill's call

    Tim and I don't care about the Superbowl. But since Bill is leading I'll go with whatever he decides. I can go any Saturday or Sunday but the 5th and 12th work best.

  21. #21
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    Superbowl Ride Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Tim and I don't care about the Superbowl. But since Bill is leading I'll go with whatever he decides. I can go any Saturday or Sunday but the 5th and 12th work best.

    I say lets change it to the 12th due to the Stupper Bowl.

  22. #22
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    I'm in for the 12th

  23. #23
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    Ok

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    I say lets change it to the 12th due to the Stupper Bowl.
    Ok, I'll make sure it's OK with the birthday boy. I could use the extra week anyway. I rode three times last week for the first time since double knee surgery three years ago and my knees went out. Emergency cortisone shots seem to be helping.

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    Qualified?

    Who is "qualified" for a particular ride is always a difficult question for me to answer. Virtually everyone I've ever ridden with is much "better" than me, both faster and more technically proficient. Yet when we get out on the longer epic rides things seem to even out a bit. Perhaps it is a combination of attitude, experience, confidence (or bravado), a sense of adventure, and a good bit of foolishness that makes up for my lack of speed and skill. I'm not particularly tough but I am very stubborn and only dangerously high temperatures have ever prevented me from finishing a planned ride. Due to excessive heat on this ride last year I took the last available bailout. I probably could have made it but it would have really slowed the rest of the folks to a crawl.

    I routinely do a 30+ miler every week and in the summer it is always a bit of an epic. And for a long time most of them were solo. So first and foremost I'm not afraid of being in the wilderness by myself. I know many people who will not even do a local 10 mile ride solo. I have the attitude that I can do just about any ride, as long as it is at my own pace. I am not afraid to be left behind and I always make it clear to the other riders that they may leave me if I am too slow.

    I'm not even close to the A or A- category Bill suggests for this ride, except in attitude and spirit of adventure. I get one ride per week and I want it to be an adventure! I'd rather die on the trail than on the couch at home. I think you just have to honest about your abilities, how much epic ride experience you have, and your willingness to be on your own if need be.

    P.S. I've done the Cannell Plunge nine times, four this past summer, and I love it!
    Last edited by Wherewolf; 01-04-2006 at 03:30 PM.

  25. #25
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    Two More

    JMH and CHUKY are likely a go for the 12th. I will put it on the calendar.

    JMH

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    I say lets change it to the 12th due to the Stupper Bowl.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Who is "qualified" for a particular ride is always a difficult question for me to answer. Virtually everyone I've ever ridden with is much "better" than me, both faster and more technically proficient. Yet when we get out on the longer epic rides things seem to even out a bit. Perhaps it is a combination of attitude, experience, confidence (or bravado), a sense of adventure, and a good bit of foolishness that makes up for my lack of speed and skill. I'm not particularly tough but I am very stubborn and only dangerously high temperatures have ever prevented me from finishing a planned ride. Due to excessive heat on this ride last year I took the last available bailout. I probably could have made it but it would have really slowed the rest of the folks to a crawl.

    I routinely do a 30+ miler every week and in the summer it is always a bit of an epic. And for a long time most of them were solo. So first and foremost I'm not afraid of being in the wilderness by myself. I know many people who will not even do a local 10 mile ride solo. I have the attitude that I can do just about any ride, as long as it is at my own pace. I am not afraid to be left behind and I always make it clear to the other riders that they may leave me if I am too slow.

    I'm not even close to the A or A- category Bill suggests for this ride, except in attitude and spirit of adventure. I get one ride per week and I want it to be an adventure! I'd rather die on the trail than on the couch at home. I think you just have to honest about your abilities, how much epic ride experience you have, and your willingness to be on your own if need be.

    P.S. I've done the Cannell Plunge nine times, four this past summer, and I love it!
    Don't sell yourself short, Steve, you may not be a hammer monkey, but you certainly got the enegizer bunny thing going.

    Everyone has their own grading system, thats why I was using trails as "qualifiers" since if they have done a trail like one of those then they should be okay for this ride. While it is an open invite, I'm trying to avoid folks whose biggest "epics" (in their mind) are rides like Santiago TT/Luge in the Santa Anas, Mission Trails in San Diego, or Wilder Ranch in Santa Cruz thinking that since those are "epics" (once again in thier mind) then they are okay to do Palm Canyon.

    You don't have to be a fast hammer king/queen to do Palm Canyon, but you need to have enough endurance/strength to potentailly be out on the trail all day. You really get out in the middle of no-where on this ride so this is not a ride to go "test your limits" for the first time as it can be a very bad place to find yourself in a crisis.

    This is going to be a big group ride, so slow riders and lots of regroups is not what I'm worried about, it is someone jumping in way over their endurance level and ending up getting themselves hurt or people stuck out there after dark.

    It is going to be an awesome ride for those strong endurance/intermediate(+) riders that come along. (Steve and Tim, you are certainly in that catergory)

  27. #27
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    Speaking of the dark

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill
    Don't sell yourself short, Steve, you may not be a hammer monkey, but you certainly got the enegizer bunny thing going.
    ...people stuck out there after dark.
    Thanks, I think I'm doing OK for an old guy who only gets to ride once a week. I'm not big on stopping and I like to keep a steady consistent pace. So anymore I often continue on while others stop. They eventually catch me and that way I'm never too out of touch. I also tend to push quite a bit more and take more chances when I have the helmet cam on.

    I was considering bringing my Niterider this year. Last time you rabbits finished just at dusk and we will be out there a bit earlier in the year. I think it would be cool to do some of this ride in the dark. Yes, I ride solo in the dark, I have no cell phone, and nobody knows where I am. Stupid perhaps, but that's part of the adventure

    I agree that the term epic is grossly overused. I think an epic must to be an all day ride in some place remote that requires a bit of logistics and has a bit of danger. I do 31 miles with 4,000 ft of climbing at Annadel in the Bay area nearly every Saturday during the winter. That's less than the Cannell Plunge but it ain't no epic.

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    I forgot

    It will also be my 50th birthday about a month from that date.

    I look at the Palm Canyon ride as two different ways of doing it. Push it hard and kill yourself,fun, but not as fun as the other way of setting a steady not to slow pace with less breaks.

    I can make the 12th.
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    But I'm as good once, as I ever was.
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    I'd like to go but how does the shuttling work?

  30. #30
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    Well I don't really care about the Super Bowl so 5th works for me, but so does the 12th. As far as shuttling I can bring my suv with rack that'll handle 4 people/4 bikes (5 if we need to) and am happy to drive. The epic nature of the ride itself is no problem, it's preferred!.
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    I've got

    a Toyota Tacoma that can take 4 bikes if we strap them in. 5 if we really push it, but then I run out of room for people to sit. I don't mind going up.

    Another thing it makes sense to cover is gear. Lots of water,lots of food and either be running Stan's no tubes with enough goo in them or Slime tubes. This place has more flat causing stickers/cactus then any other place I've ever rode.
    Last edited by Pain Freak; 01-05-2006 at 08:31 AM.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
    But I'm as good once, as I ever was.
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    The B-Day boy says...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Ok, I'll make sure it's OK with the birthday boy. I could use the extra week anyway. I rode three times last week for the first time since double knee surgery three years ago and my knees went out. Emergency cortisone shots seem to be helping.
    ...you guys pro'bly color eggs for spring break!!!
    J/K...I have a daughter that determines my ride days.

    Speaking of SPRBowl...does Daryl Lamonika still play for the Raiders?...
    See ya' on the 12th... and remember an epic to an MTBr Passionite means that you have to drive 8 hours to the trailhead...it has nothing whatever to do with the actual ride!

    Tim( knows an epic when he drives to one...)

  33. #33
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    I'm in on the 12th

    I've been looking forward to this ride since I first read about it on this board. Then I linked to Bill's site and watched the movies and I've been salivating ever since (I'll try to clean up before the 12th).

    Epics rule!
    Last edited by MrMountainHop; 01-05-2006 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Something went wrong...
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    Sweet, I'm back on board for Sunday February the 12th with some folks from the OC.

    Ride tip: 100 ounces of water is not enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleMTB
    See ya' on the 12th...
    "I hope your gravity droppers all seize up....BASTIDS." - Aquaholic

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  35. #35
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    I'm 95% in

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Sweet, I'm back on board for Sunday February the 12th with some folks from the OC.

    Ride tip: 100 ounces of water is not enough.

    for the 12th.

  36. #36
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    carpool/shuttle

    there are a coupld of aspects to coordinating this ride.

    first, those coming from the south will drive past the upper trailhead while those coming from the north will most likely head straight into Palm Springs. That being the case, it some riders were left at the upper trailhead while those with the shuttle vehicles headed down to the bottom. They in turn picked up riders who parked at the bottom and weren't going to head back up at the end of the ride. the caveat to this is there must still be enough vehicles at the end of the ride to get all of the riders back to the top to retrieve the cars!

    when planning the carpools to get to Palm Springs or the trailhead, factor in the shuttles. we did the ride once and tried to plan it so that those of us from lo-So-CA would do the conservative thing and carpool. turns out that we basically still had to use every vehicle to do the shuttle becuase we underestimated the whole shuttle thing!

    having said that, I have a Tundra Double cab that can seat 5 with bikes. my suggestion is that we try and figure this out the week leading up to the ride so we know exactly how many people/vehicles will be there.

    YR

  37. #37
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    Thanks for volunteering

    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    ...my suggestion is that we try and figure this out the week leading up to the ride so we know exactly how many people/vehicles will be there.
    Thanks for volunteering! My guess is that only Tim and I will be brave enough to come from up north. Unfortunately I only have a small truck that can hold three with bikes or perhaps four if absolutely necessary. Bill did a nice thing for us last year and let us out of the shuttling since it's a 6-7 hour drive for me and 9-10 hour dive for Tim (each way). You could view it as a birthday present for Tim. I think Bill already said he'd take care of us. But we will do whatever is necessary to ensure nobody is left behind.

    As we get closer to the ride I suggest we move the planning to email.

  38. #38
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    by north

    I'm also implying parts of So-Cal as it's easier to get to Palm Springs via I-10 from some areas than it is to go the back way like we do.

    it'll all work out though. And yes, it makes little sense for those who leave from Palm Springs and need I-10 to go back up the mountain after the ride only to drop people off. if we can work it out so that those of you that don't need to go up don't have to while those of us that do are all accounted for, then we'll be golden!

    YR

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pain Freak
    to be training for a double century for the 18th (Butterfield Double Century), but I guess I could kind of call this training too,huh? If it's open I'm in!

    I believe the Palm Springs century is the same day.

    Palm Springs century is the day before... you can do both for even more "training".

  40. #40
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    Thanks for the warning

    Just booked my Motel6. You and Impy coming?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    My guess is that only Tim and I will be brave enough to come from up north.
    Me + 1 are tenative for this ride, also comin from the bay area. Please include us in your emails = octane AT sbcglobal.net

    -Brad
    I get paid to ride shotgun.

  42. #42
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    Great!

    Tim and I are already booked for Saturday night at the Motel 6: Palm Springs East-E Palm Canyon #0009, 595 East Palm Canyon Drive. It's just a few blocks from the shuttle meeting place. The Enduro will be perfect!

  43. #43
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    I'm coming down from San Francisco, but will use the time in socal to visit my brother and some friends...and maybe a sidetrip to Arizona.
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
    suum quique

  44. #44
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    I'd like to sign up for this ride. Coming out from the OC could bring one, two at a squeeze with bikes. More than happy to shuttle people. Please keep me in mind.
    P.S I've been training hard in Peter's canyon for this ride, up to 2 laps ( Awesome! )
    Drop from on high

  45. #45
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    Butterfield Route

    Quote Originally Posted by Pain Freak
    to be training for a double century for the 18th (Butterfield Double Century), but I guess I could kind of call this training too,huh? If it's open I'm in!

    I believe the Palm Springs century is the same day.

    Pain, can you direct me to some info on the Butterfield route? I checked out the website that came up when I googled it and there is no mention of the route???

  46. #46
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    basically

    what they have on the site,is what it is. I went and looked for my old route sheet (my first double, so I kept it), but couldn't find it. The south route is some of the same as the Amtrak ride although we start in Anaheim Hills. This is a good first timer double,but don't try it without being trained. A way to know if you'd be able is to ride a century back to back. One Saturday ride a 100 then the next day ride another. Here's a little more on the route from the site in case you missed it.<B>
    As in years past, the ride will be take you down the coast to Oceanside then proceeding inland along the San Luis Rey River, and returning via Old Highway 395 through Temecula, Murietta, Lake Elsinore, Corona, and back to Anaheim Hills. Same great course you've known and loved!</B>
    Aosty, any of the guys from your area coming?
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  47. #47
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    I'm comin down from the Bay Area, but am flyin solo (my buddy flaked out). Anyone want to share the trip? Split gas/lodging/etc? I can drive, and fit up to 3 more people comfortably. Or I can just ride along and share the costs.

    Someone take me up on this offer, cuz it'll be too expensive to go solo. And I wanna go.

    -Brad
    I get paid to ride shotgun.

  48. #48
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    Palm Canyon ride

    There are 3 of us from up here in Kernville that would like to join you on this ride if that is OK. It will be a long drive for us but it still will be nothing compared to the Nor Cal guys. Please let me know what we can do to help with the shuttle or with anything else. Thanks.

    Pain Freak, check your PMs.

  49. #49
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    Done

    now check yours. Look foward to riding with you again.
    I may not be as good as I once was.
    But I'm as good once, as I ever was.
    Toby Keith

  50. #50
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    When

    So exactly when is this ride going to happen, Please post the exact date, time and where we will meet.
    The 12th seems to be the best day.

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