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  1. #1
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    Mission trails hazard

    Went down Mr Toads this morning and someone had put brush, bushes and branches all over the trail. There were even a couple holes that looked purposely dug. Why?

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    Lame-O... Thank you for the heads up though...

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    Somebody's obviously trying to protect their Strava time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Somebody's obviously trying to protect their Strava time.
    Funny.... but not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Somebody's obviously trying to protect their Strava time.
    ...
    Last edited by RTSO2112; 05-20-2013 at 07:13 PM.

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    Were you able to clear any of it out of the way? I think I'll ride there Thursday and see what I can find.

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    Unfortunately, I did not. I was more pissed off about it and was thinking I might catch this dude towards the end if that trail cause it was obvious that I was the first one down since all that stuff was put there. So I tried mashing through it all but sure enough ended getting some caught in both wheels and I had to stop and pull out branches. After thinking about it, the best thing would have been to try and remove that stuff. It was strewn over a good portion of the trai maybe 50 yards or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verns22 View Post
    Unfortunately, I did not. I was more pissed off about it and was thinking I might catch this dude towards the end if that trail cause it was obvious that I was the first one down since all that stuff was put there. So I tried mashing through it all but sure enough ended getting some caught in both wheels and I had to stop and pull out branches. After thinking about it, the best thing would have been to try and remove that stuff. It was strewn over a good portion of the trai maybe 50 yards or so.
    That's a good way to lose a rear derailleur...... I've done it myself, once, a long time ago. Next time you encounter such sabotage, would it be possible to take some pics? Also, it's good to take a minute to dismount, and look for shoe or boot tracks...this can tell you if the criminal, and make no mistake, such an act IS a crime, was possibly on foot. The holes you found, did they have shovel-marks? All of these questions, which often occur to you after your initial pissed-off response, can sometimes be addressed by a couple dozen pics snapped with any kind of camera.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CEB View Post
    Funny.... but not.
    I'll bet you money the culprit is a Strava-racer mental health professional!

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    Who's putting the beaver dam on the little trail off the east end of Deer Dancer? I mean blocking the two ends of the trail off the fire road. Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verns22 View Post
    Went down Mr Toads this morning and someone had put brush, bushes and branches all over the trail. There were even a couple holes that looked purposely dug. Why?
    isn't someone trimming the bushes on some of the trails? It seems like some big cobbles have come loose on Toads, that look like holes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    Who's putting the beaver dam on the little trail off the east end of Deer Dancer? I mean blocking the two ends of the trail off the fire road. Bill
    I'm guessing that's being done by a park employee. I know that's outside of current park boundaries, but who else would care? In the past, singletrack north of the 52 that ran parallel the fireroad and linked up to singletrack south of the 52 was blocked identically on either side of the freeway. Eventually that area will be officially within the park and they probably feel like they should start exercising dominion over it now.

    I rode out there yesterday and actually kind of welcomed the challenge to get up and over the rocks and branches without dabbing.

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    Yes the holes may have come from big cobbles loosening up. But tree trimming and placing it all on the trail unlikely

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    I rode throgh the tree trimmings today. They were broken down pretty well and I had no issues with it. I've seen this before, but either the brush was smaller or older along Oak Canyon and Three barrels. It takes all kinds.

    I did notice a no mtn, sensitive habitat sign at the corner of the Spring fire road and the fire road up to Deer Dancer, about 50 yards from where someone blocked the two entrances to the little single track. Probably the Mission Trails Rangers.

    Bill

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    A friend of mine rode out there last Friday evening and said there were clippings/branches on the trail. Not sure of which trail but he did mention riding up three barrels. He said he also saw a sign posted that said "No cutting the brush". Almost sounds like someone other than the staff was out there cutting back the brush? Toads could definitely use some maintenance soon. The trail keeps getting wider because of the loose rock and erosion. I know it's "Nature doing it's thing" but it's not a downhill racecourse. I hope no one is out there sabotaging the trails!
    "El Cajon?, that's the anus of San Diego"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaan View Post
    I rode out there yesterday and actually kind of welcomed the challenge to get up and over the rocks and branches without dabbing.
    I welcomed it failed. Real loose stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaan View Post
    I'm guessing that's being done by a park employee. I know that's outside of current park boundaries, but who else would care? In the past, singletrack north of the 52 that ran parallel the fireroad and linked up to singletrack south of the 52 was blocked identically on either side of the freeway. Eventually that area will be officially within the park and they probably feel like they should start exercising dominion over it now.

    I rode out there yesterday and actually kind of welcomed the challenge to get up and over the rocks and branches without dabbing.
    It is a very rabid, old woman in big hat. I saw her today. Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    It is a very rabid, old woman in big hat. I saw her today. Bill
    Don't bother trying to reason with her. Can't be done. She is not part of the MTRP, but may be a volunteer, because she has been seen wearing a MTRP shirt. Remove the brush/rock and enjoy your ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leadmoto View Post
    Remove the brush/rock and enjoy your ride.
    Thanks, I did that and she came yelling after me, lol! She said the sign at the corner of the Spring Canyon dirt road and the one to Deer Dancer says no mt bike riding. There is a new sign there and it is the same as other MIssion Trails Parks signs, saying stay out, no mtb riding. Mission Trails Park does not own this yet, I believe. There is a boundary marker South of the 52, same on Oak Canyon. Really chaps my hide. I think this rabid woman, had that sign installed there. That woman is more hard headed than me, but not by a lot, lol. I am thoroughly enjoying the area north of the 52 while it lasts, before everything is totally controlled. Ride on..... Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    Thanks, I did that and she came yelling after me, lol! She said the sign at the corner of the Spring Canyon dirt road and the one to Deer Dancer says no mt bike riding. There is a new sign there and it is the same as other MIssion Trails Parks signs, saying stay out, no mtb riding. Mission Trails Park does not own this yet, I believe. There is a boundary marker South of the 52, same on Oak Canyon. Really chaps my hide. I think this rabid woman, had that sign installed there. That woman is more hard headed than me, but not by a lot, lol. I am thoroughly enjoying the area north of the 52 while it lasts, before everything is totally controlled. Ride on..... Bill
    Maybe next time tell her it's private property, and the owner gave you permission to ride it:-)

    My understanding is that the Deer dancer area is owned by the City of San Diego, and a small portion by an Environmental Trust.

    The whole area West of 52 is owned by a couple of entities: Private Ownership, Sycamore Landfill, Environmental Trust, City of San Diego, County of San Diego, School District. With the majority of it owned by the Sycamore Landfill, City of San Diego, and Private ownership.

    The City owns most of the trails we ride on (Barrel, Treads, Grassy Knoll, Toads, Deer Dancer), but it is broken up by private ownership.

    Lets hope MTRP never get any of this property, or the military property. There is a reason we all call MTRP "Missing Trails".

  21. #21
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    do something

    I'm wondering if anyone has informed the lady that if she's moving rocks and brush, she's damaging the environment?

    In the end, the riders really need to step up to the plate to do something. It's not about the "questionable trails" it should be more about the lack of proper and fun riding trails within the park. *IF* people are trespassing, they are not doing so because they want to break the law, risk run-ins with Marine patrols, etc. Rather, they are doing so because the park lacks the proper infrastructure (trails, not roads) and they seek fun elsewhere. Again I say *IF* people were to trespass, not that anyone here does.


    It's the same faces over and over that go in to advocate for bikes in the park. Bad news, by "the same faces" I am talking 5-10 people. To be blunt, 5-10 people aint gonna be able to achieve sh1t! If it was going to happen, it already would have.


    MTRP is currently working on the new master plan. The first 3 meetings were well attended. Since then, there hasn't been much traffic or news as to what is happening, start asking questions now. Once this master planned is inked, you're stuck with it for a good 20 years.

    Want to see changes? Start complaining to the right people.

    Stacy Lomedico is the Director of Parks and Rec, she is the boss, period.

    Open Space? Chris Zirkle, deputy director.

    Steve Sherman, district 7 councilman.

    Jay Wilson is the director of the MTRP Foundation.

    Contact info is below:

    Organization Structure | Park & Recreation

    Mission Trails Regional Park

    As mentioned, 5-10 people can't break the "democracy" of this fine park. So organize... bring 100 riders to the next CAC meting on July 2nd at the visitors center 6:30PM, ask to make public comments. You're not all going to be able to make public comments but some eyes may open.

    Follow that up with riders hitting the MTRP foundation meeting.

    Organize, know what you are asking for, take 10 hours of your time and try to make things change.

    Or settle for what you have now, crappy old jeep roads claimed as "trails" and (IMHO) gross mismanagement of public park funds to support the special interest of a small handful of individuals that treat this park are their own private ranch.



    Full info on the MTRP financial situation (in short, they're loaded with money)

    Mission Trails Regional Park Foundation Inc. Portrait

    I'm not sure what the exact # is but in addition to the info above, I've been told roughly 10K a month is paid for the antenna leases. This money is spent at the direction of the foundation/CAC on incredible (cough) projects like the equestrian staging facility... better known as the "comfort station" or as I call it, "the golden sh1tter"

    Basically, people need to organizing and start complaining NOW before the master plan is inked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    I'm wondering if anyone has informed the lady that if she's moving rocks and brush, she's damaging the environment?
    I don't think she would agree. I would bet she figures the ends justify the means. Last time I looked, she has been placing rip rap rocks there from the drainage ditches.

    Does anyone know if MTRP plans to aquire the land north of the 52? I sure hope not.

    Thanks Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    I don't think she would agree. I would bet she figures the ends justify the means. Last time I looked, she has been placing rip rap rocks there from the drainage ditches.

    Does anyone know if MTRP plans to aquire the land north of the 52? I sure hope not.

    Thanks Bill
    They do. It's my understanding from attending the Master Plan public input meetings a couple of years back that they have already acquired some parcels in that area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    Does anyone know if MTRP plans to aquire the land north of the 52? I sure hope not.

    Thanks Bill
    Yessir...

    I've heard certain people are very supportive of the proposed power plant because the mitigation land (to be purchased by power co) would then be handed over to the park.

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    The new master plan was drawn up to include proposed trails north of the 52, as if MTRP will acquire some or all of that area. I'm not aware of any past or pending MTRP land acquisitions -- except for that area up by Sycamore/Martha's -- but I haven't kept up to date on the goings on via the MTRP CAC for a couple of years. I do recall seeing the parcel ownership map and there is quite a patchwork of parcels up there.

    None of the proposed trails in the master plan are on land within the MCAS Miramar boundaries, from what I can recall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    I did notice a no mtn, sensitive habitat sign at the corner of the Spring fire road and the fire road up to Deer Dancer, about 50 yards from where someone blocked the two entrances to the little single track. Probably the Mission Trails Rangers.

    Bill
    That sign has been there for quite a while but didn't get much attention until Deer Dancer got popular. Very near to that sign used to be a trail head for singletrack that ran straight back toward The Grasslands, roughly parallel to the north/south fireroad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Somebody's obviously trying to protect their Strava time.
    Musta been a garmin guy. Saw a 2-3' rattler on the trail last week. Be careful everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    Musta been a garmin guy. Saw a 2-3' rattler on the trail last week. Be careful everyone.
    Indeed. Those rattlesnakes are the tool of the Devil himself. There are stories of 2-3' rattlers launching themselves up to 10' and sinking their venomous fangs into the calf muscle of an unsuspecting mountain bicyclist.
    I'm seriously thinking about acquiring an all-terrain Penny Farthing, for the singular purpose of putting myself above the reach of those deadly beasts. Or take up road riding, but then, San Diego is no picnic in that regard either....what to do?

    On a related note, I have been told by a very reliable source that there is a highly belligerent Mojave Green rattler that has taken up residence in LPQ, and has been seen coiled up in the ready-position, high up on tree limbs, just waiting for an unsuspecting equestrian. I'm thanking my lucky stars that I do not own a horse, and that those trails are all signed as "NO BIKES", anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Indeed. Those rattlesnakes are the tool of the Devil himself. There are stories of 2-3' rattlers launching themselves up to 10' and sinking their venomous fangs into the calf muscle of an unsuspecting mountain bicyclist.
    I'm seriously thinking about acquiring an all-terrain Penny Farthing, for the singular purpose of putting myself above the reach of those deadly beasts. Or take up road riding, but then, San Diego is no picnic in that regard either....what to do?


    On a related note, I have been told by a very reliable source that there is a highly belligerent Mojave Green rattler that has taken up residence in LPQ, and has been seen coiled up in the ready-position, high up on tree limbs, just waiting for an unsuspecting equestrian. I'm thanking my lucky stars that I do not own a horse, and that those trails are all signed as "NO BIKES", anyway.
    Scary stuff them jumping venomous vipers. The devils messenger just lurking ready to pounce.
    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    So I shoot off all full of bravado, hit this wee booter - grabbing some air, then I land - leading into a greasy rut.

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    Unfortunately, that is the risk we take being biker scum
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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    At least we dont have to deal with the dreaded drop bear here in so cal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    At least we dont have to deal with the dreaded drop bear here in so cal.
    Only if you ride at the zoo. Koalafornia.

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    Well, the nonsense continues out there -- on tonight's ride the very bottom of Teote and the top third or so of L-1/Western was covered with a scattering of freshly cut brush and some small dead fall. We were descending from the ridge and when I saw the first of it, I thought someone had brushed back the bottom the Teote and was too lazy to throw the trimmings off the trail. But the farther I went down the trail, the more obvious it became that some self-righteous and selfish trail user was trying to make riding unpleasant for cyclists.

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    Don't you know it's "their trail" ? What happened to multi-use trails..
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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    How the hell does this happen on a trail that is as heavily traveled as it is?

    I don't ride out there very often. Somebody had to see something unless we have a anti-trail ninja out there. Is is time to shine the light on the individual(s). Post pictures of them and watch the vermin scurry out of the light...
    Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve

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    Well, I think the problem lies with the publicly assertive position taken towards the trails over there by the USMC. It seems like this kind of trail sabotage has happened more frequently since the base commander went on local TV news and complained about selfish, littering, fire-starting Mtbers putting themselves at risk of unexploded ordnance by riding on those trails. The TV station I saw him on, had the news anchors fawning all over him and thanking him for protecting our freedom, etc. and openly proclaiming their amazement at the selfish entitlement mentality of those mountain 'bikers.'

    So, to an extent, these trail saboteurs likely see themselves as 'patriots', or at least as good volunteers, when they booby trap a trail or block it off entirely.

    And what if the USMC was to give up the land those trails are on, if indeed they are on USMC land, to MTRP? If that happens, I'd bet dollars to donuts that MTRP in it's environmental wisdom would move to close most if not all of those trails on it's 'new' park territory right away.

    In short, I see another 'Flightline' scenario in the future. Ride it until they really shut it down for good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Well, I think the problem lies with the publicly assertive position taken towards the trails over there by the USMC.
    Maybe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    It seems like this kind of trail sabotage has happened more frequently since the base commander went on local TV news and complained about selfish, littering, fire-starting Mtbers putting themselves at risk of unexploded ordnance by riding on those trails. The TV station I saw him on, had the news anchors fawning all over him and thanking him for protecting our freedom, etc. and openly proclaiming their amazement at the selfish entitlement mentality of those mountain 'bikers.'
    They are not protecting our freedom, they are taking our liberties and freedoms away in the name of "safety". Substitute"Mtbers" with "hunters", "target shooters", "model airplanes", etc. All these groups are being attacked and one of the key words is "safety".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    So, to an extent, these trail saboteurs likely see themselves as 'patriots', or at least as good volunteers, when they booby trap a trail or block it off entirely.
    Maybe. I think if anything they are emboldened as is all these types of groups right now in the political climate we are in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    And what if the USMC was to give up the land those trails are on, if indeed they are on USMC land, to MTRP? If that happens, I'd bet dollars to donuts that MTRP in it's environmental wisdom would move to close most if not all of those trails on it's 'new' park territory right away.
    Absolutely, they would be making it all "safe" and would be "protecting" the environment. The Feds and local government would love to close the base to pay for more social programs and would love to have it all "locked up" and preserved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    In short, I see another 'Flightline' scenario in the future. Ride it until they really shut it down for good.
    Amen brother!!!! Do you remember when we had a government "of the people, by the people and for the people"? Bill

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    By the way California is ranked 49th in terms of personal and economic freedoms Freedom in the 50 States 2013 | California Overall Freedom | Mercatus Center

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    I believe the person throwing branches on the trail is not the same woman that is turning the hillside into a rock, and branch fortress. It's kinda funny and ridiculous how this woman keeps trying to block riders and they keep going around. So, the whole hillside is riddled with rocks and big branches and trails.

    I do not think this woman would want to hurt anyone, absolutely not!!!

    I think whoever is sabotaging the trails with branches is a man. I think a man would be more prone to do something like that. He could be young or old, I do not know. He probably does this before there are many people out there. It also seems like he does it in 50 yard stretches and he would probably put his shears away real quick if he hears or sees people coming is my guess.

    San Diego by the way is my most favorite big city in the US!!!! I think most other urban areas are much worse than here.

    Ride on....
    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    I believe the person throwing branches on the trail is not the same woman that is turning the hillside into a rock, and branch fortress. It's kinda funny and ridiculous how this woman keeps trying to block riders and they keep going around. So, the whole hillside is riddled with rocks and big branches and trails.

    I do not think this woman would want to hurt anyone, absolutely not!!!

    I think whoever is sabotaging the trails with branches is a man. I think a man would be more prone to do something like that. He could be young or old, I do not know. He probably does this before there are many people out there. It also seems like he does it in 50 yard stretches and he would probably put his shears away real quick if he hears or sees people coming is my guess.

    San Diego by the way is my most favorite big city in the US!!!! I think most other urban areas are much worse than here.

    Ride on....
    Bill


    Guessing by precedent, I would say that the person is also likely to be a "mental health professional", or something like that. That seems to be a trend with their kind.

    And, BTW, I am 60 years old, and NO, I do not remember a time when the Gov. was "for the people, by the people". It has always, in my lifetime, been controlled by the big corporations, and the MIC's...
    (military-industrial complex, and medical-industrial-complex).

    What I DO remember is a time when San Diego had only about 300,000 people in the whole county. Then, you COULD go target shooting in lots of places, and do a lot more of what you wanted to do, when you wanted to do it.

    Now, when you have going on 3 MILLION souls cramming into the same space, well, something's gotta give. Hence, rules, regulations, controls, self-appointed citizen activists.
    What I'm saying is that the REAL problem is we have 3 million rats in a 300,000-rat cage.

    It's gettin' kinda close...and the fat-cats, in our case the local development barons, call most of the shots. And coincidentally, create most of the problems, which they dodge, or assign to others, such as mountain 'biker' scum.

    Serf's Up!

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    I rode 20 miles out there on Saturday. Last time I rode in the back forty (USMC area) was about 10 years ago. Lots of new stuff since then.

    In my travels that day, I didn't see any of this unbridled hooliganism you guys speak of. Perhaps, the culprit(s) cleared the trails for me because they had advance warning of my mad rep and infamousity!

    I went from Spring (via Tres Barrels) to Oak Canyon via the ridge and Mr Toad's. It was "okay"....however, like I said up thread, the real Mr Toad's is up in Tahoe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTSO2112 View Post
    I rode 20 miles out there on Saturday. Last time I rode in the back forty (USMC area) was about 10 years ago. Lots of new stuff since then.

    In my travels that day, I didn't see any of this unbridled hooliganism you guys speak of. Perhaps, the culprit(s) cleared the trails for me because they had advance warning of my mad rep and infamousity!

    I went from Spring (via Tres Barrels) to Oak Canyon via the ridge and Mr Toad's. It was "okay"....however, like I said up thread, the real Mr Toad's is up in Tahoe!
    Good to hear that the USMC extended you a bit of professional courtesy, Chief!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Good to hear that the USMC extended you a bit of professional courtesy, Chief!
    I think my telcon with the base commander had a little something to do with the patrolers taking the day off! I think they know who butters their daily bread...Big Navy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTSO2112 View Post
    I think my telcon with the base commander had a little something to do with the patrolers taking the day off! I think they know who butters their daily bread...Big Navy!
    That's right......they ARE a department of the Navy.......the Mens' Department!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    I do not remember a time when the Gov. was "for the people, by the people". It has always, in my lifetime, been controlled by the big corporations, and the MIC's...(military-industrial complex, and medical-industrial-complex).
    That was from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Lincoln a great American hero was bought and paid for by the railroads. He was not the humble, honest Abe, he was a ruthless lawyer and politician. You did forget another complex, crony capitalism the combining government and business, which is what I believe is and has been going on in San Diego. Huge, powerful businesses making deals with our local agencies at all of our expense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    What I DO remember is a time when San Diego had only about 300,000 people in the whole county. Then, you COULD go target shooting in lots of places, and do a lot more of what you wanted to do, when you wanted to do it.
    No question about that. I knew a man who quail hunted in Kearny Mesa in the 50s. There are still a lot of places pretty close by, 20 or so miles outside of the city limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Now, when you have going on 3 MILLION souls cramming into the same space, well, something's gotta give. Hence, rules, regulations, controls, self-appointed citizen activists. What I'm saying is that the REAL problem is we have 3 million rats in a 300,000-rat cage.
    I don't completely agree. I believe there is a disproportional amount of laws and self appointed citizen activists. I believe the activists are controlling our public open spaces.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    It's gettin' kinda close...and the fat-cats, in our case the local development barons, call most of the shots. And coincidentally, create most of the problems, which they dodge, or assign to others, such as mountain 'biker' scum.
    I see it as the baron-government complex. I think we see things kinda the same, you place more blame on corporations and I place more on the government. Happy Trails
    Bill

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    I saw some mtn bikers talking with 3 white trucks today? I could not tell what the trucks were. Could be military or another government? I've seen surveyors up there also. They were on the fire road over by the top of Toads. I think that is close to the Marine Boundary.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    That's right......they ARE a department of the Navy.......the Mens' Department!
    I hear that every time...that's okay...we own the WHOLE store...which means we own them...they are our manwhores!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTSO2112 View Post
    I hear that every time...that's okay...we own the WHOLE store...which means we own them...they are our manwhores!
    You would get rep for that, but they won't let me....
    BTW, I saw that line on a bumper sticker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    You would get rep for that, but they won't let me....
    BTW, I saw that line on a bumper sticker.
    It's funny...I use the same set up every time I meet a Marine that I can joke around with...they all don't have the same sense of humor...most of it gets taken out and replaced with the omnipresent "charge that hill and don't ask questions" mentality in Boot Camp. They always fall for the same punch line, though...sometimes more than once! Stops them in their tracks every time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTSO2112 View Post
    It's funny...I use the same set up every time I meet a Marine that I can joke around with...they all don't have the same sense of humor...most of it gets taken out and replaced with the omnipresent "charge that hill and don't ask questions" mentality in Boot Camp. They always fall for the same punch line, though...sometimes more than once! Stops them in their tracks every time.
    Well, of course, I've observed that the sense of humor-deficit is also readily apparent in the Miramar CO's public demeanor. That's a big contributing factor to the problems we're discussing in this thread. That, and the city of San Diego's overall regressive policy towards bicycles in general.

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    Back to the old lady who is building the "Beaver Dams" at the foot of Deer Dancer.
    I got yelled at her while I was taking a quick water break, while I was still on the main fire road!
    She kept on screaming "Protected Area...Protected Area....Protected Area....Keep away!" Then she 'gave' me permission to ride up the steep fire road to the upper trails.
    I just laughed at her and continued on.
    When I returned about an hour later, she had built a road block across the entire fire road that SDG&E, Cable, ATT, etc use to access their power lines and stations.
    I believe that lady is a selfrighteous lunatic!
    I do know that she had no official connection with MTRP.
    Just my $0.02 worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikingScott View Post
    Back to the old lady who is building the "Beaver Dams" at the foot of Deer Dancer.
    I got yelled at her while I was taking a quick water break, while I was still on the main fire road!
    She kept on screaming "Protected Area...Protected Area....Protected Area....Keep away!" Then she 'gave' me permission to ride up the steep fire road to the upper trails.
    I just laughed at her and continued on.
    When I returned about an hour later, she had built a road block across the entire fire road that SDG&E, Cable, ATT, etc use to access their power lines and stations.
    I believe that lady is a selfrighteous lunatic!
    I do know that she had no official connection with MTRP.
    Just my $0.02 worth.
    I like "self righteous lunatic" better than " rabid old woman" lol. I'm sure her ideology is right in line with MTRP's, however she has left the reservation, figuratively and literally. Ride on.... it's public property and we are the public. Don't let her and others like her bully you. If you REALLY want to see fanatical go for a walk down to the "children's pool" in La Jolla. Be warned you may get assaulted and the police will do nothing. Bill

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    YouTube.

    How does the rabid old woman compare to these extremests?
    Bill

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    is a beaver dam anything like a jump? maybe she's just doing some freeriding.

    crazy just seems to be attracted to that place.

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    Maybe the Trail Witch has beaver fever, giardiasis?

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    Maybe the Trail Witch has beaver fever, giardiasis?

    Bill
    so the area attracts crazy and contagious.


    actually, i was expecting beaver dam to go in a whole 'nother direction.

    thanks for staying classy bill.


    any pics of the dam dam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billinsd View Post
    beaver fever, giardiasis?

    Bill
    LOL. I just read that chapter in Ray Jardine's backpacking book.

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    If someone crashes due to one of her unauthorized hazards, I'd say she could be in some deep poop.

    Maybe print this out and allow her to read it.


    "Local mountain bikers were regularly clearing the obstacles, but they would go back up again, Ray said. Three people suffered minor injuries. Among them was an Ashland mountain biking tour leader, who ran into one of the small trees dragged across a trail."


    Jackson Dempsey, Psychiatrist, Booby-Trapped Oregon Bike Trails

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    If someone crashes due to one of her unauthorized hazards, I'd say she could be in some deep poop.

    Maybe print this out and allow her to read it.


    "Local mountain bikers were regularly clearing the obstacles, but they would go back up again, Ray said. Three people suffered minor injuries. Among them was an Ashland mountain biking tour leader, who ran into one of the small trees dragged across a trail."


    Jackson Dempsey, Psychiatrist, Booby-Trapped Oregon Bike Trails
    Yes, plus we have Mike-whatsisname, in Berkeley, a Phd. on Psych. who attacked the mountain bikers with a limb saw. Something about mental health professionals and mountain bikes...

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    Someone has given some love to Toad's by raking the golf ball sized rocks out of the left hand switchback at the top and reinforcing some of the turns at the bottom of the traverse -- if the responsible trail gnome is reading this, thank you very much.

    And speaking of the traverse, that's beginning to resemble Barney Rubble at Noble. It's interesting to see how trails evolve and the changes keep things endlessly entertaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaan View Post
    Someone has given some love to Toad's by raking the golf ball sized rocks out of the left hand switchback at the top and reinforcing some of the turns at the bottom of the traverse -- if the responsible trail gnome is reading this, thank you very much.

    And speaking of the traverse, that's beginning to resemble Barney Rubble at Noble. It's interesting to see how trails evolve and the changes keep things endlessly entertaining.
    ...

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    As a mental health professional and mountain biker I take offense! ;-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    Yes, plus we have Mike-whatsisname, in Berkeley, a Phd. on Psych. who attacked the mountain bikers with a limb saw. Something about mental health professionals and mountain bikes...
    2013 Felt Edict Nine

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carloswithac View Post
    As a mental health professional and mountain biker I take offense! ;-)
    Well then, you'll just have to keep an eye on yourself!

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    New anti-personnel devices at Mast?

    Anyone notice the round metal tubes the city or Missmanagement Trails Park installed at the Mast trailhead?

    I've seen them before in San Diego? Some Cityiot ranger or Missmanagement fool recently put them up. They were painted orange, I suppose so people, horese, bikes don't trip on them? What service do they provide other than potential injury lawsuits, lol. It's a little irritating to have to stop and carry the bike over it. If I was a better rider I could bunny hopeover it.

    I've been seeing a lot of tarantula wasps. One flew into my leg, it was really exiting, I let out a yell like a girl.

    Looks like some new trails are being made. God bless you whover is doing it.
    Bill

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    Yea, I saw those the other day. I honestly don't see the point of them. They should have used the money to clean that port-a-potty more often!

    Carlos
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    Rode out there early monday morning from Bushy Gate, towards Oak Canyon, under highway up Grassy Knoll, some ridgetop and then down not sure what it's called, saw a fair amount of cleared brush on the sides of the trail but nothing on the trail itself. Slightly off topic anyone happen to have a decent map of MTRP? with trails names. Been riding there for a few years now and know very few names to go with where I ride.

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    Mission trails hazard-spring-oak-miramar-lines.jpg

    As of now, none of the trails north of the 52 are part of MTRP. Think of them as Spring and Oak canyons.

    AKAs: L1-Teote, R1-Herbivore, R2, Carnivore

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    Much obliged. Been riding all those areas and only known name of 3 Barrels, Deer Dancer, and Grassy knoll until now. Is the trail that parallels Medina and heads to Sycamore worth/open for riding? I rode out at Sycamore once and must have done it wrong, had 0 fun, failed at finding single track somehow.

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    Looks like a fun area!

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    I'd like to thank the crazy-beaver-dam-building-old lady for being so persistent and industrious and making me up my game to clean her obstacles. When life gives you lemons you make beef stew . . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by 65mph12 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Spring-Oak Miramar lines.jpg 
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ID:	811215

    As of now, none of the trails north of the 52 are part of MTRP. Think of them as Spring and Oak canyons.

    AKAs: L1-Teote, R1-Herbivore, R2, Carnivore
    Dang, that's a pretty map! Someone must've spent some time laying out those base boundaries and adding their GPS tracks

    Good to see it lives on and folks find it useful, especially since somebody came along later and added the labels for the trails.

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    ^^^ Don't sprain your arm there, big guy . . . .

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    I plan to ride there this weekend. Thanks for the map. I have been riding the area for a while but I think I have missed a few trails. Interesting note about the trail sabotage. It seems the phenomenon is spreading. Today I rode PQ up on the mesa close to the tunnels and coming around one of the sharper faster turns there was a large pile of rocks placed in the center of the trail. Must have taken at least 20 minutes for someone to collect them and stack them. It was clearly strategically placed on the exit of the turn where it would not be seen until it was too late. The trail and the stones were in a spot where a crash could send a rider down the side of a very steep hill. I did not have my phone so no photos but if you ride there you will see what remains of the pile. I moved all the stones off the trail but it is still very obvious. I did notice several fresh horse tracks but that does not mean much. I think that an injured biker getting hauled out of there would be more ammo used against us in the pending trails plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I plan to ride there this weekend. Thanks for the map. I have been riding the area for a while but I think I have missed a few trails. Interesting note about the trail sabotage. It seems the phenomenon is spreading. Today I rode PQ up on the mesa close to the tunnels and coming around one of the sharper faster turns there was a large pile of rocks placed in the center of the trail. Must have taken at least 20 minutes for someone to collect them and stack them. It was clearly strategically placed on the exit of the turn where it would not be seen until it was too late. The trail and the stones were in a spot where a crash could send a rider down the side of a very steep hill. I did not have my phone so no photos but if you ride there you will see what remains of the pile. I moved all the stones off the trail but it is still very obvious. I did notice several fresh horse tracks but that does not mean much. I think that an injured biker getting hauled out of there would be more ammo used against us in the pending trails plan.
    That wasn't there on Tuesday evening....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckanado View Post
    Dang, that's a pretty map! Someone must've spent some time laying out those base boundaries and adding their GPS tracks
    A fine job indeed.

    A friend from work passed this on to me, although I've seen this before in a discussion about Miramar trail boundaries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 65mph12 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Spring-Oak Miramar lines.jpg 
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ID:	811215

    As of now, none of the trails north of the 52 are part of MTRP. Think of them as Spring and Oak canyons.

    AKAs: L1-Teote, R1-Herbivore, R2, Carnivore
    It has been a while since I was able to ride out there, Is Grassy Knoll between Iron Thread and Mr. Toads? I remember Grassy Knoll being such a nice climb, it was the first time I ever enjoyed riding up hill.

    Is Mister Toads the ride with all the small popin and popout creek crossings near the bottom?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmangts View Post
    I plan to ride there this weekend. Thanks for the map. I have been riding the area for a while but I think I have missed a few trails. Interesting note about the trail sabotage. It seems the phenomenon is spreading. Today I rode PQ up on the mesa close to the tunnels and coming around one of the sharper faster turns there was a large pile of rocks placed in the center of the trail. Must have taken at least 20 minutes for someone to collect them and stack them. It was clearly strategically placed on the exit of the turn where it would not be seen until it was too late. The trail and the stones were in a spot where a crash could send a rider down the side of a very steep hill. I did not have my phone so no photos but if you ride there you will see what remains of the pile. I moved all the stones off the trail but it is still very obvious. I did notice several fresh horse tracks but that does not mean much. I think that an injured biker getting hauled out of there would be more ammo used against us in the pending trails plan.
    Wow, people are idiots.
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    Re: Mission trails hazard

    Klurejr yes grassy knoll is in between Mr toads and iron tread. Grassy Knoll is a fun climb and a fun down hill. Mr Toads is bumpy up top but yes farther down in the valley it hops in and out of the creak bed.

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

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    Edit
    Last edited by sandmangts; 06-27-2013 at 08:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaan View Post
    I'd like to thank the crazy-beaver-dam-building-old lady for being so persistent and industrious and making me up my game to clean her obstacles. When life gives you lemons you make beef stew . . . .
    Better watch out... if she finds out her obstacles aren't effective she may resort to other means.


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    ^ that frame captures all kinds of crazy. It would take every ounce of will power to just ride past a psycho blowing double fisted air horns at me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRingGrinder View Post
    ^ that frame captures all kinds of crazy. It would take every ounce of will power to just ride past a psycho blowing double fisted air horns at me.
    I always thought that pic was an example of how to deter a mountain lion attack!
    It's been floating around the web for years.

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    Mission trails hazard

    Quote Originally Posted by 65mph12 View Post
    A fine job indeed.

    A friend from work passed this on to me, although I've seen this before in a discussion about Miramar trail boundaries.
    Is the red boundary line depictive of actual Miramar boundaries or is that proposed?

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    mission trails and sycamore canyon military police patroling

    Check this thread out. This is where I first saw the map.
    ___________________________

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    Mission trails hazard

    Thanks. I just realized i ride with the guy who first posted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaymonster View Post
    Is the red boundary line depictive of actual Miramar boundaries or is that proposed?
    It's the actual boundaries, accurate within, say a few hundred feet at most. I based it on a few other maps I saw posted on various sites (I think a Wikimapia map that randomwalk had posted, among others). The only way to guarantee accuracy would be to get a surveyor out there but I think it's pretty close. The 600' high "fence" isn't actually there - I just added that in for dramatic effect.

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    For being "Base" property the signage is severely lacking out there. I have only had the opportunity to ride that area north of the 52 a few times and do not recall seeing anything obvious stating that one should keep out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    For being "Base" property the signage is severely lacking out there. I have only had the opportunity to ride that area north of the 52 a few times and do not recall seeing anything obvious stating that one should keep out.
    The signs are quite old, and most of them are rusted out/fallen down. It's just that in the past, with Miramar under Navy jurisdiction, the policy towards the public was fairly benign, and they allowed mtber's etc. to use the trails that were not directly in conflict with firing ranges, etc.

    Under the USMC, it's become a whole different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leadmoto View Post
    Don't bother trying to reason with her. Can't be done. She is not part of the MTRP, but may be a volunteer, because she has been seen wearing a MTRP shirt. Remove the brush/rock and enjoy your ride.
    Updating this thread with some information learned yesterday. My buddy and I were exiting The Grasslands via the SD River crossing when we saw Ranger Mel and the crazy old lady with the big floppy hat getting an earful from a mountain biker at the gate at the top of that little hill that hits the FJST. Mel was in a Rhino and the lady was standing next to it. We didn't stop to participate, but we both got the distinct impression that she was with Mel. The rider was complaining about the trail blockages and pointing out that all they are doing is causing people to build new trails around them.

    If Mel is involved, and it would seem that he is given what we saw and given all the Rhino tracks we've seen north of the 52, then those blockages are pretty troubling. Until that area is officially part of MTRP, and according the signage it is not, park management should be using its time and resources elsewhere and leaving social trails alone. How about a nice contour trail from The Grasslands up to the Fortuna ridgeline?

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    Seems from what I hear 2nd hand is the hammer is coming down hard from the Marines. Soon enough the signs will increase and patrols as well. There is much speculation as to what drew the negative attention to trials I have been riding since 1990. Whatever causes there maybe, we mustpull together and secure the trust and respect of the landowners.

    Stay tuned and report what you know about the trails north of 52.

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    Here's what I know, which was told first hand to me by senior park staff:

    All "social" trails north of the 52 will be closed when the park takes over the land regardless of any "gentleman's agreements" that were made in the past.

    So if the park is enforcing at the bottom and the Marines are enforcing at the top, riders are effed... and so are the shops who have been selling MTBs hand over fist as of late due to the re-explosion of popularity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    Here's what I know, which was told first hand to me by senior park staff:

    All "social" trails north of the 52 will be closed when the park takes over the land regardless of any "gentleman's agreements" that were made in the past.

    So if the park is enforcing at the bottom and the Marines are enforcing at the top, riders are effed... and so are the shops who have been selling MTBs hand over fist as of late due to the re-explosion of popularity.
    Funny I see just as many people hiking and running north of the 52.... I wonder if they honestly think they are gonna keep everyone out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Funny I see just as many people hiking and running north of the 52.... I wonder if they honestly think they are gonna keep everyone out.
    The bottom "trail" or creekbed, is regarded as a "trail". I'm sure that would be left open.

    The city approved to hire 4 additional rangers for MTRP. I believe it was sold as needed staff for the new acquisition of West sycamore. The following is a grab straight from P&R budget documents.
    Mission trails hazard-mtrp-rangers.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by CEB View Post
    Seems from what I hear 2nd hand is the hammer is coming down hard from the Marines.... There is much speculation as to what drew the negative attention to trials I have been riding since 1990. ....
    chris campbell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    Here's what I know, which was told first hand to me by senior park staff:

    All "social" trails north of the 52 will be closed when the park takes over the land regardless of any "gentleman's agreements" that were made in the past.

    So if the park is enforcing at the bottom and the Marines are enforcing at the top, riders are effed... and so are the shops who have been selling MTBs hand over fist as of late due to the re-explosion of popularity.
    What I've been thinking all along is that the movement is gaining momentum to criminalize mountain bikes in the urban-suburban greenspaces. We are seeing it's resurgence in LPQ/DMM, and now, with the Marines. Ranger Mel has always been all about controlling others, not helping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Raton View Post
    What I've been thinking all along is that the movement is gaining momentum to criminalize mountain bikes in the urban-suburban greenspaces. We are seeing it's resurgence in LPQ/DMM, and now, with the Marines. Ranger Mel has always been all about controlling others, not helping.
    Recently the San Diego Bicycling Master Plan was rewritten with nary a mention of mountain biking. Our (collectively speaking) group didn't have a word in the matter, we (collectively) failed to get on the map.

    For the MTRP master plan rewrite, mountain bikers showed up in ok numbers (but you still see more on a Sat morning than were at the meetings). That was two years ago +. We're still waiting on some news on that front.

    It's easy to control others when they're perfectly happy being controlled. The current approach to things isn't working, I have emails from the deputy director stating there is a surplus of adequate trails... From the horses mouth directly "there is not a problem".

    I don't have a solution to offer. Maybe 50% of the riders need to show up at the next MTRP meeting and ask to make a public comment... or not say a thing, just sit and stare. I do know that the people running the show aren't exactly mountain bike riders and experience shows that they wouldn't mind if MTBers went away and never came back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    I don't have a solution to offer. Maybe 50% of the riders need to show up at the next MTRP meeting and ask to make a public comment... or not say a thing, just sit and stare. I do know that the people running the show aren't exactly mountain bike riders and experience shows that they wouldn't mind if MTBers went away and never came back.
    More riders at meetings may or may not help. People in power do what they want, the idea that government is for the people by the people is a joke at all levels.

    What I see happening is they try to regulate it like they do in all area's claiming things like sensitive habitat, etc, etc, etc, and then someone with money (the only thing that really talks in this country) comes in and purchases all this sensitive habitat to put houses on it.

    The Rangers will try to close the trails, and people will still hike, run and mtb on them ignoring the signs until people start getting ticketed in force.

    Then, once 50+ riders/hikers/runners have to pay a fine will they start speaking up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Then, once 50+ riders/hikers/runners have to pay a fine will they start speaking up.
    from a local mtb site:
    "Heard this through a reliable source: My friend learned today from MTRPís ranger Mel that all of Oak, Spring and all the feeder trails will be closed to hikers and bikers in 3 weeks. After that time, the rangers will be actively patrolling the canyons writing what they say are $1,700 tickets."

    not sure how many people will venture back after a threat of a $1700 fine.

    i thought at this point most of the land parcels north of 52 (spring, oak and branches) were largely privately owned, up to the military area. i understand mtrp will eventually acquire this land, but has it yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jSatch View Post
    i thought at this point most of the land parcels north of 52 (spring, oak and branches) were largely privately owned, up to the military area. i understand mtrp will eventually acquire this land, but has it yet?
    I don't understand why MTRP would have jurisdiction over land north of their boundary. Maybe it's because, in addition to the privately-held parcels, many of the land parcels up there are owned by the City of San Diego, so MTRP is given the charter of "managing" those parcels.

    http://www.ktuaprojects.com/mtrp/PW3...oncept_PW3.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by jSatch View Post
    from a local mtb site:
    "Heard this through a reliable source: My friend learned today from MTRPís ranger Mel that all of Oak, Spring and all the feeder trails will be closed to hikers and bikers in 3 weeks. After that time, the rangers will be actively patrolling the canyons writing what they say are $1,700 tickets."

    not sure how many people will venture back after a threat of a $1700 fine.

    i thought at this point most of the land parcels north of 52 (spring, oak and branches) were largely privately owned, up to the military area. i understand mtrp will eventually acquire this land, but has it yet?
    shame shame
    Last edited by ocd; 09-09-2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason: ,

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