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  1. #1
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    Logs on Sycamore Cyn

    What is up with the logs across the trails in the burn area? Did the county do this or some misguided bike hater? It's just causing the trail to grow wider in those areas.

  2. #2
    L&A
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    Agreed...if people want to built stunts maybe they could put the stunts off to the side of the singletrack as to not ruin the flow of the trail? Just sayin'.

  3. #3
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    Sometimes land managers take the opportunity after a fire to shut off unnecessary or spur trails in order to preserve existing habitat. The thought would be that it would stop usage on those trails and direct it to one central trail. This method only works so long as riders are responsible but as you just pointed out most of the time riders just go around these barriers causing even more impact to the recovering habitat.

  4. #4
    L&A
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    These aren't barriers. The logs are piled up in piles right across the singletrack from small to big and then small again in order to make a log roll. Didn't count them as I was going through, maybe 5 or 6 log rolls, but a few of them are about 50 ft apart. Whoever built them rerouted the singletrack around the stunts and in some cases lined the singletrack with rocks to define the trail.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by L&A
    These aren't barriers. The logs are piled up in piles right across the singletrack from small to big and then small again in order to make a log roll. Didn't count them as I was going through, maybe 5 or 6 log rolls, but a few of them are about 50 ft apart. Whoever built them rerouted the singletrack around the stunts and in some cases lined the singletrack with rocks to define the trail.
    Uh, ok. I'm not Danny MacAskill. By the time I got to them they were just log plies. I speculate someone else marked the detours to get around the obstacles but limit the damage. Stunts are cool with me but I think should be on a more remote type of side loop.

    That said, these would be awesome if the DH approach were filled in with dirt with a good slope (not 1/4 pipe style).

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    Which Sycamore Canyon?

  7. #7
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    San Diego county, Santee to Poway.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by h82crash
    Uh, ok. I'm not Danny MacAskill. By the time I got to them they were just log plies. I speculate someone else marked the detours to get around the obstacles but limit the damage. Stunts are cool with me but I think should be on a more remote type of side loop.

    That said, these would be awesome if the DH approach were filled in with dirt with a good slope (not 1/4 pipe style).
    The tree fell across the trail, and some nice MTB'r took the time to stack logs so other riders can ride over the fell tree. This is common in a lot forested areas. It not a difficult obstacle, and I have seen several beginners do it. There is always the fire road route for entry level MTB'rs like yourself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadmoto
    The tree fell across the trail, and some nice MTB'r took the time to stack logs so other riders can ride over the fell tree. This is common in a lot forested areas. It not a difficult obstacle, and I have seen several beginners do it. There is always the fire road route for entry level MTB'rs like yourself.
    That feature is completely gone now. There was a very large tree that someone stacked logs to get over and there was a detour. After the fire it was burned/removed. The features they are refering to are new.
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  10. #10
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    hmmm I think I missed these logs a week and a half ago What part of the trail? I rode thru the burned area and dont remember too much. I was riding through some switch backs and i come around the corner and BANG hit my big toe. Then I rode through a tree laying over the track but had a spot thru it where you could ride through.

  11. #11
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    Actually slows down a quite fun part of the trail. I've always loved to build speed there and launch off of the little jump. Now it's to slow to get any momentum. I say get rid of em!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benster
    Actually slows down a quite fun part of the trail. I've always loved to build speed there and launch off of the little jump. Now it's to slow to get any momentum. I say get rid of em!
    X2 who ever put those should take them away

  13. #13
    L&A
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastmq
    X2 who ever put those should take them away

  14. #14
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    Log jumps

    Quote Originally Posted by L&A
    Prob inspired by the log "jump" that was there PRIOR to the fire from a deadfall. I myself prefer riding natural or primitive trails that have not had "features" added.... like those piles of wood ready to throw in the fire.

  15. #15
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    Instead of complaining about it, just move them the next time you ride there. Should be easy enough.

  16. #16
    ocd
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    lets all just chill the Fugh out.

    It's a few stacked logs not a friggin half-pipe.

    Don't wanna go over them?
    Don't wanna go around them?
    Turn around and go home, problem solved.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    Don't wanna go over them?
    Don't wanna go around them?
    Turn around and go home, problem solved.
    that makes too much sense

  18. #18
    CEB
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    lets all just chill the Fugh out.

    It's a few stacked logs not a friggin half-pipe.

    Don't wanna go over them?
    Don't wanna go around them?
    Turn around and go home, problem solved.

    The trail is too narrow to turn around there.......

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadmoto
    The tree fell across the trail, and some nice MTB'r took the time to stack logs so other riders can ride over the fell tree. This is common in a lot forested areas. It not a difficult obstacle, and I have seen several beginners do it. There is always the fire road route for entry level MTB'rs like yourself.

    You guys are funny, but I have my Andrew Dice Clay records for laughs. Nice flame, but I was just asking a question. So sorry us novices are on you pro's trails. These are way beneath your great skills anyway, instead of jacking them up, maybe stay up at Ted Williams. But no, I think you're right, we should start a campaign at all the lbs to relegate all new mtbr's to riding around Lake Miramar.

  20. #20
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    Trail should be trail. Stunts should be on side of trial. Look at Los Gatos in the Lagunas. Trail flows, stunts on the side. Not rocket science. What next?...a bunch of rocks across the trail for technical riding? Many folks ride Sycamore at night. A pile of logs in the trail is a stupid hazard. Grow a brain.
    SDMBA Liaison, Sycamore Canyon/Goodan Ranch Open Space Preserves

  21. #21
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    Now that does make sense, thank you.

  22. #22
    ocd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner
    Trail should be trail. Stunts should be on side of trial. Look at Los Gatos in the Lagunas. Trail flows, stunts on the side. Not rocket science. What next?...a bunch of rocks across the trail for technical riding? Many folks ride Sycamore at night. A pile of logs in the trail is a stupid hazard. Grow a brain.
    Stunts and rocks, in areas where people mountain bike?

    That is just plain crazy! Lets send a strike team out to pave those trails !

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner
    Trail should be trail. Stunts should be on side of trial. Look at Los Gatos in the Lagunas. Trail flows, stunts on the side. Not rocket science. What next?...a bunch of rocks across the trail for technical riding? Many folks ride Sycamore at night. A pile of logs in the trail is a stupid hazard. Grow a brain.
    .

    If you can't see those logs at night pony up $80 for the Magicshine. Sadly some features have been built adjacent to the trail at Sycamore and promptly ripped down by "purists" that don't want features out at Sycamore. Lame...

  24. #24
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    Glad I read this post a couple of days ago. Rode Sycamore last night and knew to be on the lookout for the logs. Me no like and I don't think they should be there, but hey...I guess I could have moved them but wanted to keep riding.

    I too hope they disappear soon.

  25. #25
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    Can we get a pic of the logs?

  26. #26
    ocd
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    let's not act like govt officials

    removing them isn't a solution, they will come right back.

    It's like saying "LETS CLOSE THE TRAILS AND THEN FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION"

    wrong way to go about things.

    You can "move" them and reconstruct them but "removing" them would be wrong.

    The statements above of "I don't like this, get rid of it" is both selfish and short sighted and is exactly why we have what we have as far as progressive trails in San Diego today (nearly none).

    This whole idea of "it isn't what I want to ride so it need to go" is pretty shallow.

  27. #27
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    I kinda want to go to sycamore now and check out these monster features.

    Do I need to armor up?

  28. #28
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    I haven't seen them but from what I'm reading someone throwing speed bumps in the middle of flowy singletrack seems more selfish than someone removing them. I know some people will stop and session logs all day long, but it seems you could do that to the side like at Los gatos w/out interrupting the flow of a trail. then again trees at syc are but so big so how bad could they really be...

  29. #29
    CEB
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    Quote Originally Posted by wirk242
    I kinda want to go to sycamore now and check out these monster features.

    Do I need to armor up?
    ANYTIME you go to Sycamore you need to ARMOR UP (kidding)

  30. #30
    Goats Rule!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craptasticycle
    ...from what I'm reading someone throwing speed bumps in the middle of flowy singletrack seems more selfish than someone removing them...
    +1

    ...

  31. #31
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    Not Great Choice of Stunt Location

    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    removing them isn't a solution, they will come right back.

    It's like saying "LETS CLOSE THE TRAILS AND THEN FIGURE OUT A SOLUTION"

    wrong way to go about things.

    You can "move" them and reconstruct them but "removing" them would be wrong.

    The statements above of "I don't like this, get rid of it" is both selfish and short sighted and is exactly why we have what we have as far as progressive trails in San Diego today (nearly none).

    This whole idea of "it isn't what I want to ride so it need to go" is pretty shallow.
    Had the log rolls been done correctly they would've been the component just off to the side and not effected trail flow. But since there is nothing stopping you from slightly changing the trail line, the place has just recently burned, isn't it possible to alter the line to retain flow but keep the logs. I personally enjoyed doing them. They aren't big.

    Yeah they were placed right on the trail but can't we find a way to work them into the mix. I think they can be ridden around and the flow retained. I vote they stay.

  32. #32
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    Flow.....??????

    This is mtbiking...... you want flow ride the assfault.

    Just say'n.

  33. #33
    ocd
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy15
    Had the log rolls been done correctly they would've been the component just off to the side and not effected trail flow. But since there is nothing stopping you from slightly changing the trail line, the place has just recently burned, isn't it possible to alter the line to retain flow but keep the logs. I personally enjoyed doing them. They aren't big.

    Yeah they were placed right on the trail but can't we find a way to work them into the mix. I think they can be ridden around and the flow retained. I vote they stay.
    When I was down there (it was night, dark and I didn't even crash, which is saying a lot), there were lines being made around them. I know because I went around 3 and over 2 or 3, no issues and I'm nowhere near a big technical rider.

    Because it was post burn, what I would assume is that the new lines go over the logs because the small rolls were built and that is the route the majority of riders took, resulting in the new lines. If a majority of the riders were going around the logs, guess where the lines would go?

    I am 95% sure that the "new line" with the small logs does not follow the same path that the "old line" took over the large log jump/roll. While heading toward Martha's the "new line" is way right from where the "old line" with the big logs was.

  34. #34
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    Pics!!!!!!

    Hey all,
    This thread definitely needed some pics.
    Here are the two tallest log rolls. There is a third to the north a little ways and about half the size of these. The bits of trail that bypass each feature are still a bit soft. All three are quite solid, as of this evening, and easily rollable-sorry no action shots I was riding solo.





    Personally, I am rather ambivalent about them. On one hand they add marginal technical challenge to an otherwise easy/boring, though pretty, section of trail. Also, they are on a section of trail that has clear lines of sight; it's not like one can be surprised by them. If they were on the twisty bits of trail, with blind corners, further to the north then I could see why some may argue that they represent a hazard. On the other hand, if this sort of feature building is going to create friction b/w the mtb community and the land managers I would support their removal-they just don't add that much to the riding experience in Sycamore. Martha's and the opportunity for dirt mileage are still the only reasons to ride Sycamore IMO.
    I think there are better trail modifications to enhance the fun of these trails like re-routing the straight nature of the trail through this section so that it is more like the super fun twisty bits to the north. Or build up some fun little rollers, table top style jumps, pump track type features. Anyone have the info on the land managers here? Just my $0.02
    Enjoy the long weekend ahead!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfTheHill
    +1

    ...
    +2 I agree, not everyone wants stunts.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdonner
    Hey all,
    This thread definitely needed some pics.
    Here are the two tallest log rolls. There is a third to the north a little ways and about half the size of these. The bits of trail that bypass each feature are still a bit soft. All three are quite solid, as of this evening, and easily rollable-sorry no action shots I was riding solo.





    Personally, I am rather ambivalent about them. On one hand they add marginal technical challenge to an otherwise easy/boring, though pretty, section of trail. Also, they are on a section of trail that has clear lines of sight; it's not like one can be surprised by them. If they were on the twisty bits of trail, with blind corners, further to the north then I could see why some may argue that they represent a hazard. On the other hand, if this sort of feature building is going to create friction b/w the mtb community and the land managers I would support their removal-they just don't add that much to the riding experience in Sycamore. Martha's and the opportunity for dirt mileage are still the only reasons to ride Sycamore IMO.
    I think there are better trail modifications to enhance the fun of these trails like re-routing the straight nature of the trail through this section so that it is more like the super fun twisty bits to the north. Or build up some fun little rollers, table top style jumps, pump track type features. Anyone have the info on the land managers here? Just my $0.02
    Enjoy the long weekend ahead!

    I am sure people will just start riding around them. Looks like there is plenty of room to do that,

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdonner
    Anyone have the info on the land managers here?
    In that area it's us.

  38. #38
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    Thank you for the pics, they are worth thousands of words, a few that come to my mind are: big deal and boring.

    I wouldn't have put them there, but...

    But I don't mind them there either. When I ride my MTB, I ride over everything anyway, chances are, even if I had encountered them, that I would not remember them.

    Now that I have seen them, I longer care about the logs.

    Thanks again for the pics

  39. #39
    ocd
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    .

    About land managers...

    If history has taught us anything in San Diego mountain biking, it has taught us that we really don't want officials involved, especially in gray areas.

    If we think back ~ 20 months to when trees were cut in the tunnels and land managers were notified we can all remember how that one worked out. If you are not familiar, they were kind enough to make a knee jerk reaction and "close" all of the trails, they remain closed and I am pretty confident that all of the trails will never be "legally" open again.

    Best thing to do here is ride over or around the logs and be on your way.

    Have a safe and fun weekend of riding.

  40. #40
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    Now that there are pictures up, I figure I'll throw in a response.

    Firstly, I have no issues with obstacles on the trail when they are of a natural or semi-natural variety. Even handbuilt is just fine if they look like they belong.

    While I personally don't really care about having to ride over a bunch of sticks piled up on a trail, these obstacles look woefully out of place and entirely unnatural. As far as obstacles go, they don't even look like anything more than they are, a somewhat organized pile of sticks. Can I ride over them? probably. Will I? Probably. Will these obstacles turn a section of trail into a "must do" section? Hardly. Will I miss them if/when they're gone? Nope.

    If an obstacle adds to the trail and it becomes an endearing aspect of the trail, then it's done properly. If an obstacle is simply erected because one can be put there but if offers nothing to the overall quality of the trail or the ride experience, is it necessary? I doubt it.

  41. #41
    Goats Rule!
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    Let's leave them and build a skinny over them.

  42. #42
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    Hey whats up? Email me if you want to ride sycamore canyon. I ride it every weekend, By MYSELF...... If a mountain biker jumps a burm in the woods and no one is there to see it, Then did he really catch air? I live at mission trails, so just email me.

    immrtal@hotmail.com
    Shred till yer dead

  43. #43
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    I rode there last Sunday and while I like jumps and stunts, these things pretty much sucked. I equate it to the 12 year old kids attempting to build "jumps" in the park by my house. They end up being more of a speed bump with no transition rather than a trick booter or anything close to a real jump. Whoever did it needs a lesson for sure. I thought about ripping them down and possibly restructuring them but I was on a time line. The way they sit now they are definitely more of a nuisance than a stunt. Maybe I'll go out and fix them sometime this weekend if somebody hasn't already.
    Last edited by FastRich; 09-04-2010 at 10:18 AM.

  44. #44
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    I've seen mother nature blow down trees and arrange them much better than those piles. I've also seen maintenance crews stage log debris to be hauled away much better than what's in these pics.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  45. #45
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    I rode out there today and spoke to the builder. He asked if we "loved" or "hated" the log rolls, and I didn't have the heart to tell him that they're not substantial enough to elicit strong feelings either way. We did tell him that it would have been a better idea to place them just off the trail so people could ride them or not without interrupting the flow of the trail

    Before anyone is too hard on him they should know that he also built the nice log roll that was destroyed by the fire, or so he claims.

    He seemed like a nice guy and his stated purpose for making the rolls was to "add a little fun to the trail". It's hard for to get angry at someone like that -- at least he cares enough to do something.

  46. #46
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    Now I have an excuse to ride there tomorrow. I'll probably get out there in the early AM and check it out.
    The piles do look crappy though.
    Should I bring a saw to clean it up a bit?
    Addicted to the dirt......with no hope for recovery.

  47. #47
    CEB
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    I'll be there too at 7:30AM. I've seen the "fireplace logs" that someone laid for sheets and giggles. Just another of the many transformations Sycamore has seen over my 2 decades of riding there.

  48. #48
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    Dude, Those trees were obviously cut down during the fire, and some unsuspecting scchmuck left the logs in the middle of the trails. Its funny to see you guys get so upset and start analyzing everything :-)
    Shred till yer dead

  49. #49
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    Last time I rode out there was before the June fire. Guess it's time to saddle up and try to hit those switchbacks on the SS.

  50. #50
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    road out there today and just saw the "fireplace" logs. the other logs were apparently moved off to the side.

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