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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeggsfab View Post
    Sounds good to me maybe get some filming done too!
    Hey sorry i never hit you guys back, I went to cynergy to pick my bike up, after they said it was finished Friday, and guess what? After replacing the entire damper rod, installing seals and fresh oil, the dam thing was still acting funny. I requested that they send the fork to specialized. Kinda lost faith in there service dept a little. Any way another week at least before I see it back
    If it's not one thing it's your mother

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I tried Horse Trail and have to admit that it was too technical for my abilities (or maybe it's just my lack of bravery). Some parts had water bars with such a steep drop that I was scared to endo from either trying to keep the speeds down or from bashing my chain ring against the water bar. Without me standing on the bike, some of the water bars were within 1 inch of bashing the chain ring.

    I basically rode the deep gully and shallow water bar sections at a crawl - almost to the point track standing. There seems to be very little room for error, and if I gain too much speed I don't think I could stop without flipping over. Can someone share some tips on how to clear the steeper and narrower sections, especially the few extremely tall water bars? Is it a mistake to keep my speed down?

    (If this counts as hijacking the thread, I apologise and can start a new one.)
    For starters I would recommend that you try lowering your saddle for this descent, that is if you don't already do so. It will make it much easier for you to shift your weight back when rolling over the tall waterbars. I think you've already figured out that you're not going to hit your chainring on the waterbar, so you don't need to worry about that. Approach the waterbar drop at walking speed, look forward focusing on the rollout rather than straight down at your front tire, loosen up, bend your elbows and shift your weight back behind the saddle as the front wheel rolls over the drop, then after the rear wheel follows you can get back on the brakes and set up for the next drop. I'm sure someone else here can do a better job of explaining the technique. It just takes a little bit of practice. It also helps to follow behind a more experienced rider and watch how they clear the section. Keep working at it and you'll have it mastered in no time. I ride the area often, so if you ever want to meet up out there, shoot me a PM. Good luck!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimN View Post
    For starters I would recommend that you try lowering your saddle for this descent, that is if you don't already do so. It will make it much easier for you to shift your weight back when rolling over the tall waterbars. I think you've already figured out that you're not going to hit your chainring on the waterbar, so you don't need to worry about that. Approach the waterbar drop at walking speed, look forward focusing on the rollout rather than straight down at your front tire, loosen up, bend your elbows and shift your weight back behind the saddle as the front wheel rolls over the drop, then after the rear wheel follows you can get back on the brakes and set up for the next drop. I'm sure someone else here can do a better job of explaining the technique. It just takes a little bit of practice. It also helps to follow behind a more experienced rider and watch how they clear the section. Keep working at it and you'll have it mastered in no time. I ride the area often, so if you ever want to meet up out there, shoot me a PM. Good luck!
    The waterbars scared the hell outta me the first time too. They really aren't too bad though. I find momentum helps on them. I use more of a jogging speed and just lean back. Stay off the front brake. The hardest one IMO is the one on the last right turn. I take a straight line and turn afterward. Don't try to turn on the little drop. Keep at it and you'll get there

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I tried Horse Trail and have to admit that it was too technical for my abilities (or maybe it's just my lack of bravery). Some parts had water bars with such a steep drop that I was scared to endo from either trying to keep the speeds down or from bashing my chain ring against the water bar. Without me standing on the bike, some of the water bars were within 1 inch of bashing the chain ring.

    I basically rode the deep gully and shallow water bar sections at a crawl - almost to the point track standing. There seems to be very little room for error, and if I gain too much speed I don't think I could stop without flipping over. Can someone share some tips on how to clear the steeper and narrower sections, especially the few extremely tall water bars? Is it a mistake to keep my speed down?

    (If this counts as hijacking the thread, I apologise and can start a new one.)
    You should hire a bike skills coach for a couple rides, for a few bucks you can learn how to confidently ride challenging terrain. just a thought, i've always wondered if people would use a skill coach.
    nothing witty here...

  5. #105
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    We the people ...

    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I tried Horse Trail and have to admit that it was too technical for my abilities (or maybe it's just my lack of bravery). Some parts had water bars with such a steep drop that I was scared to endo from either trying to keep the speeds down or from bashing my chain ring against the water bar. Without me standing on the bike, some of the water bars were within 1 inch of bashing the chain ring.

    I basically rode the deep gully and shallow water bar sections at a crawl - almost to the point track standing. There seems to be very little room for error, and if I gain too much speed I don't think I could stop without flipping over. Can someone share some tips on how to clear the steeper and narrower sections, especially the few extremely tall water bars? Is it a mistake to keep my speed down?

    (If this counts as hijacking the thread, I apologise and can start a new one.)
    Sounds like you conquered the trail successfully,no crashes or injuries! I don't know what kind of bike you ride, but I hate the feeling of going over the low bars on cross country bikes. Finally I switched to an all mountain bike, more up right posture, high bars and longer forks Lower the seat and hang you but off the end as far back as possible. this gets you center of gravity lower and gets you weight off of the front tire. This posture will help to prevent you from endowing. Never go faster than what you comfortable. no jumps etc. Follow you instincts, if it is too scarey, walk it. There is no shame in saving yourself from injury.
    Roll the technical drops ins, ease off front brake so you don't endo. I learned all of this the hard way, then I got someone to show me!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    You should hire a bike skills coach for a couple rides, for a few bucks you can learn how to confidently ride challenging terrain. just a thought, i've always wondered if people would use a skill coach.
    I recommend hiring a coach, I came from road bikes so my technique was all wrong, crashed a lot,

    CORBA offers a free mountain bike basic skills course on the first Saturday of every month at Malibu Creek Park. Check their website.

    The course is given by Mark Langsten, who is the currently president of CORBA
    Mark also gives advance skills courses and personal instruction.
    .
    I have taken the basic and the advance courses and over time the skills sunk.

  7. #107
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    Sorry for the dumb question, but WTF is a waterbar?? Is it the perpendicular logs? I thought those were steps . . .

    If thats what they are, then yes going slow over them makes them more difficult. I just ride off them and try to make both wheels land at the same time. If you think about the physics of doing this, you'll get the technique described above.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Sorry for the dumb question, but WTF is a waterbar?? Is it the perpendicular logs? I thought those were steps . . .

    If thats what they are, then yes going slow over them makes them more difficult. I just ride off them and try to make both wheels land at the same time. If you think about the physics of doing this, you'll get the technique described above.
    A waterbar is usually a mildly trenched out channel of dirt that crosses a trail. It usually has a raised area on one side of it. It's designed to divert rainwater away so that it will not damage the trail.

  9. #109
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    Mandeville Canyon is on fire!!!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    A waterbar is usually a mildly trenched out channel of dirt that crosses a trail. It usually has a raised area on one side of it. It's designed to divert rainwater away so that it will not damage the trail.
    I enjoy water bars


  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    I enjoy water bars

    Well no wonder you're having trouble riding over them . . . you should try just pulling up a seat instead!

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    I enjoy water bars

    "Hello, 911? I'd like to report a couple of Cougar sightings at a waterbar..."

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ambassadorhawg View Post
    Mandeville Canyon is on fire!!!
    Damn! I just rode near there this morning. Hope its under control soon . . .

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    Sorry for the dumb question, but WTF is a waterbar?? Is it the perpendicular logs? I thought those were steps . . .

    If thats what they are, then yes going slow over them makes them more difficult. I just ride off them and try to make both wheels land at the same time. If you think about the physics of doing this, you'll get the technique described above.
    Yes, those wooden steps are what we're talking about. You'll find them incorporated pretty much only on very old trails. The thought was that they would help with water drainage on steep trails, but they've been proven to be very ineffective. I'm no trail design historian, but at least that's my take on it.

    The technique you speak of is fine, and fun, when you find these steps on a wide open, not so steep trail, with an endless amount of clear runout. Sort of like the steps you encounter when descending the lowest section of Will Roger's Backbone. You can just sail off those waterbars at full speed as long as there is no uphill traffic to yield to.

    This trail is a whole different situation, as the steps come in rapid succession on a fairly steep and narrow tread without a whole lot of runout. Your approach here has to has to be much slower and calculated.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimN View Post
    Sort of like the steps you encounter when descending the lowest section of Will Roger's Backbone. You can just sail off those waterbars at full speed as long as there is no uphill traffic to yield to.

    This trail is a whole different situation, as the steps come in rapid succession on a fairly steep and narrow tread without a whole lot of runout. Your approach here has to has to be much slower and calculated.
    Yeah, the only place I have encountered those is on WR so yeah, I have no other comparison.

  16. #116
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    Thanks to everyone for the advice on the waterbars! I'm able to clear most of the bars ok, and like was mentioned I shift my weight as far back as possible (and my saddle isn't in the way). However I'm really short (5' 3"), so I'm not able to shift back as far as most people can. At best I can get my butt above the 12 o'clock position of the rear wheel. I can't go any further back without letting go of the handlebars.

    I ride a Giant Trance X, which is known to have a very low bottom bracket. There are 2-3 extremely tall water bars that I'm scared the bike won't clear. When walking the bike over them there's about 1" of clearance. I have about 1" of sag in the suspension when I'm on the bike, so there's a pretty good chance of striking. Since I've never struck my big chainring before I don't know what to expect - will it be slightly annoying, or will it be enough to throw me over the handlebars?

    Maybe I have to settle for walking those sections. It's too steep and congested to ride fast enough to float over everything. I was just hoping that someone had some ingeniously simple solution that I hadn't thought of.

  17. #117
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    I was gonna go hit the trails this afternoon, I got their but damn it was way too hot to continue.... Next time....

  18. #118
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    What tire setup are u guys using? tubeless or regular and what tire combinations? currently im using kenda nevegal and inner tubes? any input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by calcobra98 View Post
    What tire setup are u guys using? tubeless or regular and what tire combinations? currently im using kenda nevegal and inner tubes? any input.
    That's perfect. The tread pattern is great for this terrain and there's no real need to go tubeless around here, IMO. It's not exactly pinch flat country unless you are riding a careless line.

  20. #120
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    I love the backbone trail starting from Kanan dune rd tunnel 3 and ride to corral canyon. Gorgeous especially fall, winter, spring, summer. oops.

    Oh and Point Magu State Park is great! After your ride, just jump right in the ocean to cool off if parked by pch. Love the backbone trail, especially guadalasca!

    My husband never lets me win anymore climbs

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once_Upon_A_Time View Post
    especially guadalasca!
    Up or down, that is a fun trail. Spring time it is amazing, like riding in a botanical garden.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcobra98 View Post
    What tire setup are u guys using? tubeless or regular and what tire combinations? currently im using kenda nevegal and inner tubes? any input.
    My 29er is using a series of tubes, nevegals on the front with crossmarks on the rear. Pretty great so far, although I might go with something like small block 8's over the crossmarks next time.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Salt View Post
    Up or down, that is a fun trail. Spring time it is amazing, like riding in a botanical garden.
    "botanical garden"?! Garden of massive amounts of Poison Oak is more like it, LOL!

    If I may, I'd like to add that I personally have also seen giant Venus Flytraps (big enough to swallow a Downhiller, LOL!), 2 Chupacabras, 1 or possibly 2 Timber Wolves, a Grizzley Bear, oh, and once the Yeti reached out from the "botanical garden" (as I was flying down the trail) and slapped me five as I passed by. That was the highlight of that ride, no doubt...

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcobra98 View Post
    What tire setup are u guys using? tubeless or regular and what tire combinations? currently im using kenda nevegal and inner tubes? any input.

    Nevegals , UST. No other option, unless you like to flat.

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    I also use Nevegals with tubes. I keep the tyre pressures low when on the trails, and pump them back up for the street ride between the mountain & home. I might try SB8's next time just to make my street ride easier.

  26. #126
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    I was looking at this video of Sully Cyn from 2007:

    mountain biking sullivan canyon - YouTube

    Nothing past the first 1:30 of this video looks familiar to me, and I've been riding the canyon for about half a year. Is the singletrack that's showing from 2:00 on to the end still accessible? What happened to the trail to make it change so much from 2007 to today?

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I was looking at this video of Sully Cyn from 2007:

    mountain biking sullivan canyon - YouTube

    Nothing past the first 1:30 of this video looks familiar to me, and I've been riding the canyon for about half a year. Is the singletrack that's showing from 2:00 on to the end still accessible? What happened to the trail to make it change so much from 2007 to today?
    Sullivan used to be much more fun than it is today, before the gas company dozed it and put in the concrete mats (2009). There are still some vestiges of the old singletrack, but you have to look for them. you can read all about it in this old post:

    Sullivan Canyon Alert!!

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I was looking at this video of Sully Cyn from 2007:

    mountain biking sullivan canyon - YouTube

    Nothing past the first 1:30 of this video looks familiar to me, and I've been riding the canyon for about half a year. Is the singletrack that's showing from 2:00 on to the end still accessible? What happened to the trail to make it change so much from 2007 to today?
    Its changed several times since the first time I rode it in 1997, then it was just a overgrown straight fireroad. The El Nino in 2001 or 2 ( i forget the date) shaped it into what was in the 2007 video. 2009 it was dozed flat.

    2011 The big storm of last winter re-shaped it into what it is today. The run off was three feet deep.

    There are a couple of vistages of the old trail off the to right as you go down hill. There used to be a banked swtch back, log crossing, root crossing, gully drop fallen trees, it was so fun!

    The trail as depected in the video is my favorite version of the canyon.
    We shall see what happens to the trail this winter.

  29. #129
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    Wow, pretty interesting, I've never seen it in its previous form. Definitely seems to be reverting back relatively quickly in some sections luckily.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    Thanks to everyone for the advice on the waterbars! I'm able to clear most of the bars ok, and like was mentioned I shift my weight as far back as possible (and my saddle isn't in the way). However I'm really short (5' 3"), so I'm not able to shift back as far as most people can. At best I can get my butt above the 12 o'clock position of the rear wheel. I can't go any further back without letting go of the handlebars.

    I ride a Giant Trance X, which is known to have a very low bottom bracket. There are 2-3 extremely tall water bars that I'm scared the bike won't clear. When walking the bike over them there's about 1" of clearance. I have about 1" of sag in the suspension when I'm on the bike, so there's a pretty good chance of striking. Since I've never struck my big chainring before I don't know what to expect - will it be slightly annoying, or will it be enough to throw me over the handlebars?

    Maybe I have to settle for walking those sections. It's too steep and congested to ride fast enough to float over everything. I was just hoping that someone had some ingeniously simple solution that I hadn't thought of.
    Late reply. I'm all of 5'4. Height has nothing to do with it. Get a little momentum, lean back, and pull a bit at the lip. YOu'll make them all. Don't "ride down" them, rather "huck" them or whatever. You'll be ok man.

    Rob

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I was looking at this video of Sully Cyn from 2007:

    mountain biking sullivan canyon - YouTube

    Nothing past the first 1:30 of this video looks familiar to me, and I've been riding the canyon for about half a year. Is the singletrack that's showing from 2:00 on to the end still accessible? What happened to the trail to make it change so much from 2007 to today?

    I shouldn't have watched that . . . I feel so . . . so, cheated.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by robncircus View Post
    Late reply. I'm all of 5'4. Height has nothing to do with it. Get a little momentum, lean back, and pull a bit at the lip. YOu'll make them all. Don't "ride down" them, rather "huck" them or whatever. You'll be ok man.

    Rob
    Thanks for all the help! I've gone down Horse Trail a couple more times, and each time I make it through more of the trail successfully. Eventually I hope that I can finish the complete course. The tip about relying more on the rear brake helped tremendously (since it's not possible to endo when using the rear brake), and overall I think that calming my nerves helped me float over the steep waterbars more easily - when I was nervous my legs were so tense that I wasn't allowing the bike to rock around without rotating my entire body with it.


    Regarding the 2007 vintage Sully Cyn, I really regret that I didn't get a chance to experience it. It looks amazing on video, so it must have been that much better in person. I am glad however that I get to ride it today as opposed to when it was freshly bulldozed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I shouldn't have watched that . . . I feel so . . . so, cheated.
    Do not worry young Jedi, Sullivan canyon changes more, reinvents itself more, than pretty much any trail / ST / FR in the eastern Santa Monica's. Sure, those changes can be "man made", but it does evolve all the time. Think back a couple of years now when the ST of Westridge and Sullivan Ridge were dozed. They are fire breaks after all. Anyway, some thought the fun was gone forever, but now they are as good as they ever were.

    Sure, Sully cyn may never quite be the way it was in its prime (first time I hit it was summer of '85), but I've been pretty happy with some of the tech, be it minor tech, on the main route that has developed. And, there are a couple good stretches of ST forming up along the lower half of the canyon. I'm not too disappointed to have the two 24"? / 30"? high pressure gas pipes covered. Just imagine how quickly that canyon would change if there was ever a major accident with those pipes!


    Here's some Sully Cyn from June 2009 - just before the Gas Co. did their major work:
    .
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by robncircus View Post
    As mentioned the ridge is a great quick afterwork ride. Depending on fitness it's an awesome before/after work ride. I can climb the canyon, hit bent arrow, and descendthe ridge in about 90 minutes. I have frinds that do it much quicker but my clibing sucks. This video shows Bent Arrow, the ridge, Squirrel Trail and Horse Trail. The initial 1500 feet of climbing is not shown.

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/22700555?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0&amp;a utoplay=1" width="398" height="299" frameborder="0"></iframe>
    Thanks for posting the video. I've never ridden any of these trails before.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Salt View Post


    Here's some Sully Cyn from June 2009 - just before the Gas Co. did their major work:

    El Salt, how funny here is a video I took at the same time as yours.



    This was my very first time using my GoPro (nonHD).

    Kind of funny to see the comparison.....well at least the first part

    cheers,
    -tep

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    I rode the Horse Trail today, and after I exited the trail a woman from a home near the exit flagged me down. She told me that the trail was "for the horses' enjoyment ONLY", and that everything (she pointed at the homes, the trail, and even the road) was private property. I politely thanked her for the info & left the area.

    I don't know the validity of her statements, but regardless I guess I'll stop riding there for the sake of keeping the residents happy. Sucks, I really liked this trail.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep View Post
    El Salt, how funny here is a video I took at the same time as yours.



    This was my very first time using my GoPro (nonHD).

    Kind of funny to see the comparison.....well at least the first part

    cheers,
    -tep
    Good stuff Tep! Yes, mine was non-HD as well (obvious), picked up an HD version just a month later.

    Speaking of which, I need to fire that baby up, its been too long since I've shot any "footage". Off to NCal (Skeggs / Demo - Rockville / Annadel) in a couple of weeks, good chance to shoot a bit.

    I've always finished Sully Cyn with a smile on my face, no matter its condition. At the end I'm always wishing it was twice as long!
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  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I rode the Horse Trail today............
    just out of curiosity......are you guys talking about the trail that is just on the inside of the big gate at Sullivan and heads down into the neighborhood below, or are you talking about the trail with the waterbars coming down from the Sul Ridge side that drops you off in the same neighborhood?

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep View Post
    just out of curiosity......are you guys talking about the trail that is just on the inside of the big gate at Sullivan and heads down into the neighborhood below, or are you talking about the trail with the waterbars coming down from the Sul Ridge side that drops you off in the same neighborhood?
    It's the trail on the inside of the gate to Sullivan Canyon, and it exits to Old Ranch Road.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    It's the trail on the inside of the gate to Sullivan Canyon, and it exits to Old Ranch Road.
    copy that.

    if you are riding down Jedi, there is another trail from the pavement that drops you down into the same neighborhood on a similiar trail....just from the other side.

    sorry, I was just a little confused.

    cheers,
    -tep

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep View Post
    copy that.

    if you are riding down Jedi, there is another trail from the pavement that drops you down into the same neighborhood on a similiar trail....just from the other side.

    sorry, I was just a little confused.

    cheers,
    -tep
    wha... where?

    you need to come ride with us again, been too long.
    nothing witty here...

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    Anybody here have ever taken their bike to Catalina Island? That would be wicked. I think ima do that something like that.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post

    you need to come ride with us again, been too long.
    yes agreed, it's been waaaaaay too long; busy schedule.

    Haven't found the time to really get much riding in. Hopefully with kids back in school a more normal routine will settle in.

    hope all is well,
    -tep

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    I rode the Horse Trail today, and after I exited the trail a woman from a home near the exit flagged me down. She told me that the trail was "for the horses' enjoyment ONLY", and that everything (she pointed at the homes, the trail, and even the road) was private property. I politely thanked her for the info & left the area.

    I don't know the validity of her statements, but regardless I guess I'll stop riding there for the sake of keeping the residents happy. Sucks, I really liked this trail.
    I've heard this but never seen signs. I wouldn't stress it.

  45. #145
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    I will be in Santa Monica next week with my freeride/slopestyle bike. Does anyone wanna meet up to go for a ride? I'd really love to ride some nice DH stuff.

  46. #146
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    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/33763760?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0&amp;a utoplay=1" width="398" height="299" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
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  47. #147
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    where is that last rutted out section filmed??

    pleasantly puzzled,
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  48. #148
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    That last area looks like Horse Trail, which starts off the side of the entrance to Sullivan Canyon and ends up on Old Ranch Road.

  49. #149
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    exactly....if your at the sullivan canyon gate....its right to the side on the right.
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  50. #150
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    Hey has anyone biked up sullivan ridge? the actual dh trail not the fire rd.

    Is it too steep?

    my normal ride is...start at sullivan canyon trail head, push my bike up the squirl trail or whatever its called )about 1/4 in on the left) up to sulivan fir rd....then climb sullivan fire rd and back down sullivan ridge.
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  51. #151
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    Never tried going up Jedi but my usual ride in the area is to head up the canyon to mulholland then back down the ridge to squirrel. I enjoy the climb up that way more for whatever reason.

  52. #152
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    I guess it depends on how strong your heart is, but it's surely not an easy climb. Why not climb up Sullivan Canyon the entire way to the top? It would be more interesting than the Sully Ridge fire road especially if you do some of the single tracks in the canyon.

  53. #153
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    the sullivan canyon climb is just sooooo long... i found when i push up the squirell trail it cuts at least a few miles off the climb. and i have way more energy to play around up top.

    ive never seen any singletrack in the canyon?
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  54. #154
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    The singletrack in the canyon criss-crosses the fire road throughout much of the trail, so it's just a matter of looking for the entrance to the next section of singletrack as you go along the main path. Many parts of the singletrack link in with the next piece of singletrack, so as you exit one section look around for the entrance to the next part.

    The singletrack works best if you're going downhill, but it's not bad going uphill too.

    My usual course starts off with a road ride from the southern end of Santa Monica to Sully Cyn, up the canyon fire road to Mullholland, through Farmers Ridge, then to the Nike missile site, down through Sully Cyn (this time going through the singletrack), then the road ride back home in Santa Monica again. If my ride is any shorter than this I feel cheated.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    the sullivan canyon climb is just sooooo long... i found when i push up the squirell trail it cuts at least a few miles off the climb. and i have way more energy to play around up top.

    ive never seen any singletrack in the canyon?
    Assuming you go to the top of Mulholland, the canyon is actually 2 miles shorter than the ridge. The ridge is just a long, slow, boring grind . . . the canyon only gets real steep at the end and is much more enjoyable.

    Next time, try going up the canyon, down jedi and then DOWN squirrel cage . . . I bet you spend more time on singletrack and DH sections.

  56. #156
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    I have never climbed the ridge. Was just wondering.

    Pushing up squirrel then climbing the fire road is definitely shorter tho
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  57. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    Hey has anyone biked up sullivan ridge? the actual dh trail not the fire rd.

    Is it too steep?
    I've climbed it many times, and no its not too steep except for the very first section off the road (steep + loose soil).

    Great workout, takes some fitness. MUCH easier if the soil's a bit moist.

  58. #158
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    Bringing this thread back up....

    Can anyone chime in on how the Westridge singletrack compares to Jedi? Is it more/less technical, steep, loose, etc? Is it any fun? (I never see anyone talking about it!)

    I'd like to give it a go, but don't want to try if it's like a 4 mile long Widow Maker!

  59. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    Bringing this thread back up....

    Can anyone chime in on how the Westridge singletrack compares to Jedi? Is it more/less technical, steep, loose, etc? Is it any fun? (I never see anyone talking about it!)

    I'd like to give it a go, but don't want to try if it's like a 4 mile long Widow Maker!
    nah, its fun, and you can cancel any time.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    nah, its fun, and you can cancel any time.
    Thanks for the feedback. I crashed hard a couple days ago on Jedi, and of course it was the first time I decided to ride without full armour. I have to take it easy for a few weeks while things heal, so I didn't want to try Westridge if it's too crazy. I'll give it a go since it sounds like it's not too bad!

  61. #161
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    where is jedi?
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  62. #162
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    It's been a while since I rode Jedi and I got a chance to hit some of it this weekend. Someones done a lot of work up there. Fun little trail.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    where is jedi?
    It's the singletrack on top of Sullivan Ridge. There's Upper Jedi and Lower Jedi, which ends at the Camp Josepho sign.

  64. #164
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    oh. i thought that was just called Sullivan ridge. i was there on sunday, first time in a half a year or soo. its really getting dry and rutted.

    <object width='500' height='375'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/257108/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/257108/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='375' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href="http://www.pinkbike.com/video/257108/">Bored on sunday run</a> on <a href="http://www.pinkbike.com">pinkbike.com</a></p>
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  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    oh. i thought that was just called Sullivan ridge. i was there on sunday, first time in a half a year or soo. its really getting dry and rutted.
    If you say "Sullivan Ridge", you could mean either the singletrack or fire road. But if you say "Jedi", everyone knows you're talking about the singletrack only. I think most of the average mountain bikers stick to the fire roads, while the crazies here on MTBR go for the insane singletrack stuff.

  66. #166
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    Just in case I'm not the last person to have ever ridden the Westridge singletrack, here's my mini review of the place:

    It's a fun trail, with plenty of exits to the fire road if you want to bail. It's steeper than Jedi (aka Sullivan Ridge singletrack), which means a lot more climbing but also longer faster downhills. Some of the areas get fairly steep, but it's nowhere near as rutted or loose as Jedi so traction isn't an issue. Westridge has a more gentle flow to it, kind of like a tall wooden rollercoaster, while Jedi is more violent and rough.

    There are some areas where if you hit the peak with enough speed, you can get a good amount of air. There are only a couple of spots with brief amounts of exposure, so for the most part if you fall, you don't fall far.

    I'll probably try it again but for now, I slightly prefer Jedi. I think it's because I'm scared of heights, and Westridge forces you to ride a loooong way down. It's also steep enough that once you start going downhill, you have to commit to it, and you have to go fast.

  67. #167
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    am i confused here? isnt westridge single track just the trails in sullivan canyon that criss cross the firerd?

    its not steep at all. am i missing somthing??
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  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    am i confused here? isnt westridge single track just the trails in sullivan canyon that criss cross the firerd?

    its not steep at all. am i missing somthing??
    Different trail.

    There are sections of singletrack above the westridge fire road.

    OneTimeCRX is right, there are a few sections with significant exposure that make me nervous. I can't help but imagine myself getting medevac'ed out of the canyon, so I take it easy through those sections.

  69. #169
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    can somone show me on google maps?
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  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokfir2 View Post
    can somone show me on google maps?
    Westridge is the road that heads down from the Nike site, with sullivan canyon roughly in between that and sullivan ridge.

    Here's a route of someone going up sullivan ridge and coming down westridge.
    Geoladders -- Sullivan Ridge - Westridge Loop

  71. #171
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    I find one of the biggest drawbacks to Wstrdg s/t is the amount of hikers and dog walkers.

    -tep

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  72. #172
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    Technically, "Westridge" is the West Mandeville Fire Road, but everyone calls it Westridge since the lower trailhead starts where Westridge Road ends. Westridge singletrack runs in between the Nike Missile Site and Westridge road.

    I'll make some Google Earth pics of the trails & figure out how to post them online, though it may take a while...

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneTimeCRX View Post
    Technically, "Westridge" is the West Mandeville Fire Road, but everyone calls it Westridge since the lower trailhead starts where Westridge Road ends. Westridge singletrack runs in between the Nike Missile Site and Westridge road.

    I'll make some Google Earth pics of the trails & figure out how to post them online, though it may take a while...
    I've never ridden this route and I'm really intrigued . . . kinda curious to know what the "exposure" is like. Also seems to me that the trail might be kinda short, no?
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  74. #174
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    Here are some maps:

    Overview of Westridge:
    Green: Westridge ST, aka West Mandeville Fire Road
    Orange: Dirt Mulholland
    Cyan: Sullivan Ridge
    Purple: Sullivan Canyon




    Westridge ST upper trailhead, next to the Nike Missile Site (where the red line meets the green line):




    Westridge ST lower trailhead, exiting to Westridge Road. Note that my GPS didn't draw the path on the far right side of the green line correctly. I think I lost GPS reception for a bit:




    Sullivan Canyon & Ridge Overview:
    Purple: Sullivan Canyon
    Cyan: Sullivan Ridge AKA Upper Jedi & Lower Jedi
    Dark Blue: Squirrel Cage




    Squirrel Cage Close-up:
    Purple: Sullivan Canyon
    Cyan: Sullivan Ridge AKA Upper Jedi & Lower Jedi
    Dark Blue: Squirrel Cage. It's south of the Camp Josepho sign, next to a telephone pole.




    Horse Trail Close-up:
    Red: Paved roads
    Purple: Sullivan Canyon
    Dark Blue: Horse Trail. Upper TH is next to the green gate at the Sullivan Canyon TH.




    Upper Bent Arrow & Car Crash Overview:
    Orange: Dirt Mulholland
    Light Blue: Upper Bent Arrow, aka Farmers Trail, aka Farmer Fire Road
    Lime Green: Car Crash Trail, aka MG Trail, considered part of Upper Bent Arrow
    Red: Dead End Trail




    Widowmaker:
    Orange: Dirt Mulholland
    Light Blue: Upper Bent Arrow, aka Farmers Trail, aka Farmer Fire Road
    Cyan: Sullivan Ridge
    Red: The Widowmaker (there's also another Widowmaker somewhere else off of Dirt Mulholland)




    Will Rogers Backbone Overview:
    Purple: Sullivan Canyon
    Cyan: Sullivan Ridge
    Orange: Dirt Mulholland
    Yellow: Temescal Canyon Road/Temescal Canyon Fire Road
    Fuchsia: Will Rogers Backbone Trail


    Let me know if I should make any corrections/additions!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Good Trails Near Santa Monica-bent_arrow.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-horse_trail.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-jedi_overview.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-squirrel_cage.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-westridge_lower_trailhead.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-westridge_overview.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-westridge_upper_trailhead.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-widowmaker.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-will_rogers_overview.jpg  


  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I've never ridden this route and I'm really intrigued . . . kinda curious to know what the "exposure" is like. Also seems to me that the trail might be kinda short, no?
    Westridge is definitely worth trying. It looks like it would be short, but because it's constantly alternating between climbing & bombing down, it feels like it's longer than Jedi. I'd say that the exposure isn't any worse than Jedi, and definitely not worse than Car Crash. There is one spot though, that if you fall off the side, you really fall. Straight down, no rolling softly down a hill.

  76. #176
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    Thanks OnetimeCRX! I've done Westridge/Sullivan Cyn/Ridge/Squirrel various combos many times, but couldn't figure out where Upper Bent Arrow was though I looked for it a million times. I know exactly where it is now. What's the difficulty level of Car Crash vs Widowmaker?

    Also...
    We're really lucky to have that area so close.
    Thanl god for the squirrel cage, as I used to have to go UP Sullivan Ridge (loooong and on a Giant Revel 2).

    My first Full Suspension arrives in a week (SC superlight)!!! Can't wait to ride Sullivan area on a FS. Never ridden a FS. Not hating on my Revel2 though. Gave me a great introductory year to MTN biking. I put that thing to serious abuse up at Jedi and even through Squirrel cage. Lots of crashes but good times

  77. #177
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    Widowmaker in my opinion is a HECK of a lot harder than car crash, which to be honest is a pretty simple trail. The whole thing is exposed, but nothing too bad. If you can ride widowmaker, you can do just fine on car crash. Instead of going straight to WM, just turn left down CC/Bent Arrow.

    And what's wrong with going up Sullivan ridge, and how does squirrel cage help with that??? Sullivan ridge is a pretty easy climb. Easier, IMO, than the canyon.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLAmtb View Post
    Thanks OnetimeCRX! I've done Westridge/Sullivan Cyn/Ridge/Squirrel various combos many times, but couldn't figure out where Upper Bent Arrow was though I looked for it a million times. I know exactly where it is now. What's the difficulty level of Car Crash vs Widowmaker?
    The photo below shows the entrance to Upper Bent Arrow aka Farmer Ridge Fire Road. It's after going up a short steep hill on a wide open part of Dirt Mulholland. The left side of the entrance is exposed to a good fall if you're really clumsy.

    I did the Widowmaker once, will never do it again. It's well beyond me, even with full armour on. When the "ruts" are deeper than I am tall, that's the limit for me. Last thing I need is to fall into one of them then have my arm pinned down by a rock (or however the movie goes).

    Car Crash is completely doable, especially if you can do Squirrel Cage. You just have to be 100% sure of yourself because any hesitation and you can end up falling a long way down.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Good Trails Near Santa Monica-farmer_ridge_fire_road.jpg  


  79. #179
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    The photo below shows some of the exposure at Westridge. The photo doesn't do a good job of showing the enormity of it all, but I basically had 1 yard left to go before going straight down a huge cliff. There's no way to climb your way out of that one, assuming you survive the fall. The centre of the Google Earth pic shows the dropoff, though it's steeper than Google renders it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Good Trails Near Santa Monica-westridge_exposure.jpg  

    Good Trails Near Santa Monica-westridge_exposure_google_earth.jpg  


  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    And what's wrong with going up Sullivan ridge, and how does squirrel cage help with that??? Sullivan ridge is a pretty easy climb. Easier, IMO, than the canyon.
    Really? Technically, yeah. But that section after the camp is steep for me. Of course, I also walk that last part of the canyon too so that's my lack of climbing ability. Workin on it though by trying to go higher each time. Havent done the ridge climb in a while so might try it again soon.

    I dont know, I just prefer going up the canyon and riding jedi so squirrel is key for me.

    Thanks for the info re: widow/car crash. Sounds like a ride to save for a day when I have a ride partner.... to be safe.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by WLAmtb View Post
    Really? Technically, yeah. But that section after the camp is steep for me. Of course, I also walk that last part of the canyon too so that's my lack of climbing ability. Workin on it though by trying to go higher each time. Havent done the ridge climb in a while so might try it again soon.

    I dont know, I just prefer going up the canyon and riding jedi so squirrel is key for me.

    Thanks for the info re: widow/car crash. Sounds like a ride to save for a day when I have a ride partner.... to be safe.
    Really the trick is just as you are doing . . . just push a little farther this time than last time. I "cut my teeth" on big climbs on Sully ridge. Coming from Michigan, where climbs are measured in feet instead of miles, I seriously struggled for the first few months (I still do too!). My first run up Sully I didn't even make it to dirt before I had to throw in the towel. It's still a challenge, but because its a steadier climb than the canyon, I find it easier. Just keep pushing yourself and you'll get there!
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  82. #182
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    I prefer going up the canyon too, mostly because of the tree cover. The cooler temperatures make the climb seem easier and shorter somehow.

    I remember the first time I tried Sully Cyn, I barely made it to the TH before I had to turn around and leave. Granted I started my ride from home & going up Westridge Rd is what killed me, but it was disappointing to not even get any dirt on my tyres.

    After that, it took 4 more tries before I reached the top of Sully Cyn, all of which ended with a lot of walking/limping until my legs literally could not hold my weight anymore and I would collapse to the ground. I made it a point to always go until I could not make it 1 foot further, then turn around and try to make it back home.

    Eventually I made it further & further until I could do full loops. Now my biggest challenge is increasing my technical skills & tackling the trails I'm too scared to commit to. I still get leg cramps with every ride, but I guess that's never going to change (even with extra electrolytes, water, diet, etc).

    You just have to keep at it, and over time you'll make it further & further.

  83. #183
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    so far since moving here this is my fav trail, not in SM tho. talk about exposure lol. its like this for 13 miles :-)

    <object width='500' height='375'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/254523/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/254523/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='375' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href="http://www.pinkbike.com/video/254523/">Lower Mnt Wilson 4/28</a> on <a href="http://www.pinkbike.com">pinkbike.com</a></p>
    Last edited by nokfir2; 05-19-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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    Rather than start a new thread, wanted to chime in here to say after a year+ of riding the trails on my low level hardtail....I finally got my FS! Jedi was a whole new experience!!! So much more stability which led to more confidence/speed. Climb was actually much easier. Was told FS are heavy, but actually my hardtail was heavier frame and low level components so guess that made a difference. I don't know really, but don't care Also did Encinal up to ETZ Malloy for the first time, which was a fun trail. Not tech, but still a fun ride. Can't wait to get back out this weekend!

  85. #185
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    [QUOTE=nokfir2;9328673]so far since moving here this is my fav trail, not in SM tho. talk about exposure lol. its like this for 13 miles :-)

    That's the Sam Merrill Trail.

  86. #186
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    i know.
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    For those of you who ride the canyon / ridge / jedi / and even bent arrow, where do you usually park? Last time I parked over at Queensferry / Bayliss a woman was giving me a hard time. The posted signs are confusing.
    Last edited by stencil; 03-04-2013 at 04:09 PM.

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    Re: Good Trails Near Santa Monica

    Quote Originally Posted by stencil View Post
    For those of you who ride the canyon / ridge / jedi / and even bent arrow, where do you usually park? Last time I parked over at Queensferry / Bayliss a woman was giving me a hard time. The posted signs are confusing.
    When going up Sully canyon, I park on Bayliss, between Westridge Rd and Queensferry. I've never had a problem with the residents. Just park near the other cars with bike racks.

  89. #189
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    Anyone have a decent course that starts around Sullivan, goes up and across to farmers/bent arrow, and then maybe back down? What route would you take to do this?

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by stencil View Post
    Anyone have a decent course that starts around Sullivan, goes up and across to farmers/bent arrow, and then maybe back down? What route would you take to do this?
    Couple different ways to do this . . . where exactly are you starting?

    I used to start from my house and ride up Sullivan ridge to Mulholland, ride across and down farmers, then back to Sullivan and head down through Sullivan canyon, drop back down Horse Trail, dumping me out onto Sunset then back home. About 21 miles and 2400' of elevation.

    There are a few options along the way including dropping down Squirrel Cage and riding up the canyon to Mulholland, you can also head back down via Jedi or cut over to The Hub and ride down Will Rogers.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    I'm thinking of climbing Westridge this time (usually climb Sullivan Canyon) to the nike site, then over past the hub to do farmers / broken arrow, back around on Mulholland, then down Jedi and Squirrel Cage back to the cars at Bayliss/Queensferry. Sounds like a decent route?

    I usually climb the canyon but I'm with some slower riders and according to strava Westridge is a somewhat easier climb. Haven't done it but it's a 3 compared to a 2 (Strava's scale). I've taken one of them up Sullivan Canyon and he kinda hated it, especially the last exposed bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stencil View Post
    I'm thinking of climbing Westridge this time (usually climb Sullivan Canyon) to the nike site, then over past the hub to do farmers / broken arrow, back around on Mulholland, then down Jedi and Squirrel Cage back to the cars at Bayliss/Queensferry. Sounds like a decent route?

    I usually climb the canyon but I'm with some slower riders and according to strava Westridge is a somewhat easier climb. Haven't done it but it's a 3 compared to a 2 (Strava's scale). I've taken one of them up Sullivan Canyon and he kinda hated it, especially the last exposed bit.
    Totally doable route. But I think Westridge is only "easier" because its shorter, and to climb Westridge from Bayliss/Queensferry would necessitate a grueling road climb to the dirt. And I think you may be thinking of something else besides The Hub. By hitting NIKE, and heading towards Sullivan, you wouldn't go as far as the hub. You'd hit Farmers first and then turn back. The Hub is farther West, past Reseda and into Topanga. Its where WR Backbone starts.

    If your friend hated climbing the Canyon, they're going to really hate ANY of the other routes up to Mulholland . . . IMO, Sullivan Ridge is the easiest as its a pretty steady grade with only 2 real steep spots (one right when you hit dirt, the other just after the Oak Tree).

    If you want a super easy climbing, beginner friendly route, head out to Backbone and start at Encinal. VERY easy climbing but fun singletrack.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 007 View Post
    Totally doable route. But I think Westridge is only "easier" because its shorter, and to climb Westridge from Bayliss/Queensferry would necessitate a grueling road climb to the dirt. And I think you may be thinking of something else besides The Hub. By hitting NIKE, and heading towards Sullivan, you wouldn't go as far as the hub. You'd hit Farmers first and then turn back. The Hub is farther West, past Reseda and into Topanga. Its where WR Backbone starts.

    If your friend hated climbing the Canyon, they're going to really hate ANY of the other routes up to Mulholland . . . IMO, Sullivan Ridge is the easiest as its a pretty steady grade with only 2 real steep spots (one right when you hit dirt, the other just after the Oak Tree).

    If you want a super easy climbing, beginner friendly route, head out to Backbone and start at Encinal. VERY easy climbing but fun singletrack.
    Yeah, I love that route as well, but they're coming down to the Sully area tomorrow AM to keep it more local for me.

    If we're gonna climb the ridge, where does one usually park?

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    To climb the ridge, you'd park at amalfi and Capri. If you start there.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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    Thanks as always, 007. Ended up doing the usual "up-the canyon and down Jedi to squirrel cage" as my friends were being a bit more noobish than expected. One took a spill on upper jedi even after I warned him to avoid the jumps. Whatchagonnado.

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    Anyone notice that squirrel cage is REALLY lose lately? Haven't been down it in a while but I went OTB my first time ever taking it back into the canyon. May have been me getting used to new tires, but I was surprised. My knee isn't happy with me either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stencil View Post
    Anyone notice that squirrel cage is REALLY lose lately? Haven't been down it in a while but I went OTB my first time ever taking it back into the canyon. May have been me getting used to new tires, but I was surprised. My knee isn't happy with me either.
    Squirrel cage did get better at some point in 2014, but it's getting loose again. Does anyone know who maintains that trail occasionally? I want to help out but i don't want to step on any toes or change anything that someone wouldn't want changed.

    Given that squirrel cage has been cleared of loose rocks in the past, I'm assuming it would be fine to just clear the scree off again, but i want to double check.

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    Apologies for reviving a dead thread, but i figured it was better than starting a new one.

    Does anyone know of a way to get from the start of Sullivan fire road near amalfi across to backbone, other than climbing up J-Drop? If J-drop is the only option, is that a terrible idea to climb up it? I've never ridden it so i don't know if i would have to resort to hike-a-bike and would be in the way of riders coming down.

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    You can ride down Amalfi to Sunset and climb up Backbone starting from Will Rodgers State Park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by badbrew View Post
    You can ride down Amalfi to Sunset and climb up Backbone starting from Will Rodgers State Park.
    thanks! that's what i figured was the best way - i was hoping there was another connecting route somewhere up sullivan ridge, but it looks like not

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