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  1. #1
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    Freeride or Downhill trails in San diego

    Where are the freeriding trails in san diego at? I can't find to many good ones.
    Thanks,
    Wil

  2. #2
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    Really, there aren't that many. I get my fix by:

    Shuttling Noble Canyon
    Pushing Iron Mountain
    Shuttling Ortega
    Shuttling Ted Williams

    but really, its bleak down here. Move to Canada.

  3. #3
    aka Suicidedownhiller
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    yeah whister rules. lol.Where are these places located.

  4. #4
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    dig around the 'trail reveiws' part of the website. Ortega may also be refered to as the San Juan Trail.

  5. #5
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada
    Really, there aren't that many. I get my fix by:

    Shuttling Noble Canyon
    Pushing Iron Mountain
    Shuttling Ortega
    Shuttling Ted Williams

    but really, its bleak down here. Move to Canada.

    well noble/san juan are certainly NOT freeride trails. they are XC cruiser rides.
    the freeride trails are

    ted williams (go as big as you want, 40 foot gaps)
    jamul (rocky, drops, jumps)
    xxxxx (xx part has some decent drops)
    also as mentioned iron mountain and lake poway are fairly technical.
    aliso woods in OC that is 1hour+ away also.

    but i agree, move to vancouver! 100X more freeride trails than here.
    Last edited by dft; 07-12-2006 at 11:57 AM.

  6. #6
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    I didn't say they were outstanding choices, but for DH san juan and noble are two of the better around. when I need to get my flying time in, TW is definately my choice.

    How is XX? I haven't been there in a while. last time I was out there (sept 2004?) it was real grim...

    while moving to vancouver isn't feasible for me at the moment, I am making a 2 week trip up there in august.
    Last edited by CarnageAsada; 07-17-2006 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #7
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada
    I didn't say they were outstanding choices, but for DH san juan and noble are two of the better around. when I need to get my flying time in, TW is definately my choice.

    How is World Cup? I haven't been there in a while. last time I was out there (sept 2004?) it was real grim...

    while moving to vancouver isn't feasible for me at the moment, I am making a 2 week trip up there in august.
    WC is decent. there are some fun new drops, not alot of flow though, but some decent techno.
    i'll be in whistler/shore in sept also.

  8. #8
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    Careful now..

    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada
    I didn't say they were outstanding choices, but for DH san juan and noble are two of the better around. when I need to get my flying time in, TW is definately my choice.
    Noble is NOT a DH or freeride trail. It's an excellent multi-use trail which is also great for aggressive cross country riding. True, you can shuttle it, but please be careful and give way to hikers and horses. It'll be a shame if we lose this gem of a trail.

    TW is certainly the place to be for flight time and DH.

  9. #9
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    I've got a friend that lives near Ted Williams Prkwy, but have never heard of a trail there..??
    (other than PQ canyon...)

    Where is it??
    ...every day sends future to past...

  10. #10
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    Shoal Creek Dr off TW Pkway (just east of 15) or Meadowbrook off Pomerado Rd

    http://www.dirtfocus.com/photos2004/...dco1_index.htm

  11. #11
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    downhilling

    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada
    I didn't say they were outstanding choices, but for DH san juan and noble are two of the better around. when I need to get my flying time in, TW is definately my choice.

    How is World Cup? I haven't been there in a while. last time I was out there (sept 2004?) it was real grim...

    while moving to vancouver isn't feasible for me at the moment, I am making a 2 week trip up there in august.
    at least in teh purest sense of the word seems like a waste on SJT. there really isn't anything on that trail that warrants rear suspension let alone 6 inches of it. sure, you'll go a bit faster than I will on my HT but other than the fact that it's a long downhill it's not really a DOWNHILL!

    Noble i will concede will be fun on a squishy. I don't know since I only ride a HT and can clean every section of the trail (except for that darn switchback). It definitely takes more finesse on the HT but I can see how a long travel squishy would be fun out there.

    XX is the place for the pure freeride/DH experience.

    YR
    Last edited by Yeti_Rider; 07-13-2006 at 06:37 AM.

  12. #12
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    My best run down Noble was around '98 or '99 on my HT. My second best was just a few months ago on my 5x5.

    Yeti,
    I thought your avatar was of your boy. Now, I see that someone else has it as well.

  13. #13
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    Fight Club!!

    GODDAMNIT! Are you people really this F'n stupid?!! Quit discussing this crap in an open Forum. DFT, you of all people should know better. Take this crap off line if you want to name trails.

    It's no wonder the good stuff gets closed down.

    SHEESH.

    How many F'n times do we have to go over this?

    The first rule of fight club is................
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 07-12-2006 at 11:09 AM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  14. #14
    Neg reppers r my biatches
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    GODDAMNIT! Are you people really this F'n stupid?!! Quit discussing this crap in an open Forum. DFT, you of all people should know better. Take this crap off line if you want to name trails.

    It's no wonder the good stuff gerts closed down.

    SHEESH.

    How many F'n times do we have to go over this?

    The first rule of fight club is................
    Hey douchebag, I would love to explore these trails....and was wondering if I could borrow your bike to do so.

  15. #15
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    GODDAMNIT! Are you people really this F'n stupid?!! Quit discussing this crap in an open Forum. DFT, you of all people should know better. Take this crap off line if you want to name trails.

    It's no wonder the good stuff gerts closed down.

    SHEESH.

    How many F'n times do we have to go over this?

    The first rule of fight club is................
    fair enough, my apologies.
    TW is totally legal and mentioned EVERYWHERE else (even bike mags). the other trail is also mentioned in a shitload of places, but probably best not to blatently advertise it. i'm glad someone posted about it for me though, that is how i found it!

  16. #16
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    closed

    thats it, all trails in the alpine area are now officially closed until further notice.
    the mayor of A%$

  17. #17
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    did I do something wrong? WHy is every getting mad at people for talking about trails. Of all places i would be leastworried about people ruining trails on a mountainbiking website. But my apoligies for starting a thread about trails that may get ruined.

  18. #18
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    Not you!

    Quote Originally Posted by skyjumper
    did I do something wrong? WHy is every getting mad at people for talking about trails. Of all places i would be leastworried about people ruining trails on a mountainbiking website. But my apoligies for starting a thread about trails that may get ruined.
    The peeps responding should've thought about how to respond. If you look in the right hand qurater of this page you will see Welcome, skyjumper. Below that is Private Messages. YOu can click on that to receive, duh, private messages.

    Some trails mentioned could be closed due to, the Man, spying on MTBR.


    EDIT: Maybe the clicky part is more toward the middle right when the page is still at the begining.

  19. #19
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    Thnx Rodster--

    Steve, absolutley LOVE yer new avitar!! Nothing says I love you all quite like a pair of f'n flies f'n...

    For the grommets: NOBLE CANYON trail has been on the verge of closure many times thanks to DISRESPECTFUL IDIOTS who do shuttle/downhill runs. Don't do that.

    There are no legal, open MTB trail in the Alpine area.....

    ...this Ted Williams trail sounds interesting, however. Not that I have the skills to ride it, I wouldn't mind checking it out...when this weather cools down...
    ...every day sends future to past...

  20. #20
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    Best Mex Food

    My question is where are all the best Mexican food places near the freeride or downhill trails in San Diego.

    1. Mananas in Alpine is good one, was there last week on a business trip and their breakfast huevos rancheros was killer.

    2. That place in Poway at the corner of Twin Peaks RD and Espola RD is okay, close to Iron MT.

    That one on HWY 371 in Anza that DFT and I tried wasn't too bad.

  21. #21
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    Why are all the alpine trails closing?

  22. #22
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    They are not closing. They are not open. They can't be closed if they were never opened. As in, never really opened by any legislation or orginization.

  23. #23
    Jus' Ridin' Along
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    It's hard to hold back...

    But TS to those that get offended:

    Noble and San Juan Trails are getting trashed by the skidiot shuttlecocks and those trails' existence as multi-use is being jeopardized by the boneheads that think those trails (among others) are their private DH courses.
    And just an FYI: It takes less time for this old fart to ride up to Cocktail Rock than for the coast potatoes to load all their bikes and drive up to the top.(and go back for the other monster truck) So the old excuse of " I don't have time to ride up" is lame...

    Recent scenario at a trail work day:
    US: Fixing the mega-rut and cut through on a switchback caused by assjacks locking rear wheels to skid through turns (exacerbated by erosion). All of us wearing mtb logo'd clothing, camelbaks, some on bikes, all wielding tools.
    THEM: Group of fully armored knuckadraggers on 50 lb+ megabikes engaged in semi-race.
    Exchange: 1st of them: "Dooood, you just jacked my flow".
    Us:" Sorry, we're out here trying to repair the damage to keep the trail open".
    Them: " Huh?"
    Us: "yeah, and if you wouldn't mind, there is some fresh tread work on the next switchback, so please go easy when you make the turn".
    Them: "Huh?"
    Them a little further down the trail (but within earshot) talking to group of uphill riders: " Uh, there's a bunch of hikers up there with shovels. We dunno what they're doing but watch out for them".
    Man, I just love talking to morons!
    Then to top it off, we get back down to the trail head and these asshats have their obnoxious music at an obnoxious volume while they sit around smoking cigarettes and drinking crappy beer. Gotta love the fact that some shitforbrains will be piloting his 10" lifted Excursion up Ortega Hwy with a few beers under in his gut.
    Think this is only once in a while? Nope, you will find similar types out there just about every weekend! And of course, they all show up when we post a trail work day

    Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

    Now, concerning Aliso Woods/ LCWP: for those that think freeriding the illegal trails is a blast, especially in large groups on weekends, I just want to thank you in advance for getting trails shut down to all of us when the local land managers have had enough.
    You guys are real men of genius!

    Seriously folks, there is a real lack of etiquette and just plain common sense on the trails. I just keep trying to remind our brethren to use the big head...
    If ya gotta good tool, build a shed over it

    "The most blatant lies are told just after a fishing trip, during a war, and just before an election"

  24. #24
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    Bobble

    Hey man don't hold back, go ahead and say what's on your mind. Just kidding dude. I am with ya all the way. I recall a post recently where a shuttler said that if hikers don't have the sense to get out of the way, they deserve what ever happens. It's that kind of attitude that will help keep the trails closed. One thing I have learned about trail advocacy is that you spend half your time fighting other user groups who want you off their trails and the other fighting with other bikers who are ignorant to the reality of the sport.
    I'm not saying downhilling is bad. I just don't think multi-use trails are the place to do it. Mr. and Mrs. Birdwatcher and the Boy Scouts have just as much right to use multiuse trails as we do and they deserve to feel safe while doing it. It's unfortunate there is not an appropriate place for the sport nearby but that's no excuse trash our trails and put others in danger.

    BTW - If these 53 year old legs can push a SS up to Cocktail Rock, there are no excuses for anyone except pure laziness.

  25. #25
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    Thanks for the oh so true version of shuttlers/downhillers. I think their options for their kind of riding is small so multi use trails get ruined by them as well as John Q Public's opinion of mtbers. Believe me the evidence of the knuckledragging skidiots abounds on the trails here also.Great comment don't worry about pissing off a group that fits that description.

  26. #26
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    Darn Shuttle Scum!

    Then there are those XC jerks that come bombing down Meadows. Lord help you if you are taking a break within 2 feet of the trail. They will curse you, but won't stick around to discuss it. Must be too hard to slow down them sub 30 pound bikes.
    "I hope your gravity droppers all seize up....BASTIDS." - Aquaholic

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  27. #27
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    Dumb it down

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL

    Seriously folks, there is a real lack of etiquette and just plain common sense on the trails. I just keep trying to remind our brethren to use the big head...
    Canyun Trash:

    It's extremely frustrating to see the amount of abuse and lack of common sense taking place on some of our trails.

    I shake my head in disbelief when I see switchbacks on SJT that have been cut 2 or 3 times in some places. It must be justifiable in someway, because I imagine that you can save .654 of a second to cut a switchback.

    Kinda off topic here.....but one thing that I'm seeing more of on Noble Canyon is the dumbing down of a lot of sections. This is nothing new..it's been occuring forever.

    Last weekend Dirty D and me placed piles of deadfall on the "Widowmaker". The trail is being pushed off to the right to avoid going through the chunk. It's just human nature I guess..that if you can't ride, or walk, or horse, through a section... then, it's perfectly acceptable to dumb it down to your level and ruin the asthetics of the trail in the process.


    Anyone want to wager how long that deadfall will stay there?
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    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  28. #28
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    Hopper...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    Hey man don't hold back, go ahead and say what's on your mind. Just kidding dude. I am with ya all the way. I recall a post recently where a shuttler said that if hikers don't have the sense to get out of the way, they deserve what ever happens. It's that kind of attitude that will help keep the trails closed. One thing I have learned about trail advocacy is that you spend half your time fighting other user groups who want you off their trails and the other fighting with other bikers who are ignorant to the reality of the sport.
    I'm not saying downhilling is bad. I just don't think multi-use trails are the place to do it. Mr. and Mrs. Birdwatcher and the Boy Scouts have just as much right to use multiuse trails as we do and they deserve to feel safe while doing it. It's unfortunate there is not an appropriate place for the sport nearby but that's no excuse trash our trails and put others in danger.

    BTW - If these 53 year old legs can push a SS up to Cocktail Rock, there are no excuses for anyone except pure laziness.
    Right on...
    I still remember that evening I dragged you to a meeting and said "Here... run with this for a while". Glad you took up the offer. Keep fighting; good for the soul.
    BTW, the new wife gets a message about blood on erection and I don't? Always knew you liked her better Heal up soon; you missed a good party.
    If ya gotta good tool, build a shed over it

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  29. #29
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    Winston, check your PM's
    If ya gotta good tool, build a shed over it

    "The most blatant lies are told just after a fishing trip, during a war, and just before an election"

  30. #30
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    Aqua

    We had this same problem on the Rattlesnake trail in El Moro. Basically bikers were changing the trail to match their skills intead of changing their skills to match the trail. No matter how much wood and small rocks we piled on the cheater sections, they would be moved within a week. We ended up getting a big group together to go up there and permanently block the cheater trail with boulders.

    Bobble - sorry about the email thing. For some reason your addy fell out of my address book but I found T's on the party invite. Sorry we missed the party but I spent the entire day in the ER. They sewed me up once then decided they didn't like it so they pulled out the stitches and did all over again. I know I have had a shin bone all my life but this was first time I have actually seen it.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper
    We had this same problem on the Rattlesnake trail in El Moro. Basically bikers were changing the trail to match their skills intead of changing their skills to match the trail. No matter how much wood and small rocks we piled on the cheater sections, they would be moved within a week. We ended up getting a big group together to go up there and permanently block the cheater trail with boulders.
    Unfortunately, your spot on. Here's another example that blows my mind. This is a tame little section off of the BLT. Apparently, the original line was simply too technical to manuever for some. So, unable to controllably negotiate the turn, they opted to just shoot wide and create a new line.

    I blocked the damage off with deadfall............ and the following weekend it was removed.

    What is the mindset of someone who comes across this? Do they think to themselves:
    " WTF??? Someone is trying to booby-trap my line?"

    You solution is probably the only way to circumvent this. The next few trail days at Noble, I want to get some big pry bars down there and move some BIG rocks around.
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    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  32. #32
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    Well if it makes you XC guys feel better I was going up a multi use trail the other day on my DH bike. Ok, I was pushing it.
    Anyway some dude rips around a blind corner (no bell, no brake check) and I just could not get out of the way fast enough. He cliped one of my pedals with his shin. Of course he ate it bad and just went off on me.
    Now I felt bad that my shinbuger pedal tore him open pretty well but hey...... I thought the guy going uphill has the right away (even though I will always try to get out of any decenders way) ..... I told him I was sorry and did try to get out of the way. Oh, I also told him he was luck I was just pushing a bike and not riding a horse.

    So there you have it, every group has someone who's poo sinks just as bad as the others. I bet he got a grip of stitches out of that deal.

    Oh, I bet it's not the DH crowd that's "dumbing down" your trails.

  33. #33
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    You solution is probably the only way to circumvent this. The next few trail days at Noble, I want to get some big pry bars down there and move some BIG rocks around.


    Classic! So you want to take pry bars out and re-landscape so that someone can't ride off the trail?

    There are more mountain bikers then ever...........there aren't more trails. This means the landscape will change, not maybe it will change or should it change, but IT WILL CHANGE.

    Whether or not you accept this is your prerogative, but deeming yourself judge and jury of what can and can't be done or who and who shouldn't ride on a public trail is an Elitist attitude. You want it your way, buy some land.

    I don't condone cutting switchbacks or making new lines, but MTBers bit**ing about MTBers is a waste of breath in the big picture.

  34. #34
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    Tunnel Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    Classic! So you want to take pry bars out and re-landscape so that someone can't ride off the trail?

    There are more mountain bikers then ever...........there aren't more trails. This means the landscape will change, not maybe it will change or should it change, but IT WILL CHANGE.

    Whether or not you accept this is your prerogative, but deeming yourself judge and jury of what can and can't be done or who and who shouldn't ride on a public trail is an Elitist attitude. You want it your way, buy some land.

    I don't condone cutting switchbacks or making new lines, but MTBers bit**ing about MTBers is a waste of breath in the big picture.
    I'm going to try to and respect your opinion here. But, you're just wrong. Call it an elitist attitude if you will, but I, along with a number of others, spend countless hours doing what we can to maintain the trails, specifically Noble Canyon, here in San Diego.

    I trust that you as a responsible mountain biker do the same and give back to the trails that you frequent.

    "You want it your way, buy some land". That is a really dumb comment. That same mindset is exactly why so many of our trails are hammered beyond recognition in areas. If all users had this attitude of "Ohh Well, the trail is just gonna evolve and change anyway, so there's no point in being proactive in an attempt to preserve it".



    It's unfortunate that you interpret my comments as "MTBers bittching about MTBers is a waste of breath in the big picture".

    "Bittching about it as a waste of time"???? Bittching, perhaps. But, I put my Pulaski where my mouth is. I'm curious....when you are riding your local trails and you see someone riding irresponsibly, or doing something destructive to the trail, do you turn the other cheek, or do you call them on it? When you see some brush that has overgrown onto the trail do you simply ride wide to avoid it, or do you stop and cut it back to help promote people of all user groups sticking to the original line?

    It's largely because of people with your narrow minded mindset that you see widened, blown out turns on what was once sweet 8" wide singletrack. But, Ohh well, right....There's nothing that can be done because the trails are just "evolving".

    Are you missing the point completely, of the examples that I've posted here? Or, are you just looking for a cyber fight?

    Aqua

    PS For what it's worth, I work closely with the members of SDMBA and the forest service regarding maintenance at Noble Canyon. And, yes..that includes the use of pry bars. It's a very special place and I'll do what I can to help preserve it's beauty.
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 07-13-2006 at 01:13 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  35. #35
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston
    Darn Shuttle Scum!

    Then there are those XC jerks that come bombing down Meadows. Lord help you if you are taking a break within 2 feet of the trail. They will curse you, but won't stick around to discuss it. Must be too hard to slow down them sub 30 pound bikes.

    yea both xc weenies and fully armor clad dudes can be aholes on the descent. it shouldn't matter if they ride up or shuttle, but always try to be nice to hikers. i always stop unless they are already off to the side of the trail.

    just a preference/personel taste here, but i have seen dudes on noble with 50 pound bikes with only a big chainring and the dude was toast 2/3rd down. good for a laugh though. i have never shuttled noble and always on my 42 pound rig. (not opposed to it though). but as others have mentioned, most times the shuttle takes just as long. (TW is the biggest laugh for a shuttle, climb takes 15 minutes, i can beat the shuttle dudes no problem).

    iron mountain has also seen some dumbing down, bummer.

    dt(the best uphills are pure HAB!)

  36. #36
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    You make a good point that it's not the type of bike or even riding style so much as the attitude of the rider and yes many with the "I can do as I please and you shouldn't get in the way of my fun" attitude do happen to have XC bikes.

    To me the most key point is that these trails in the national forest and other areas often have been around for a long time and were originally created for hiking. People realized that many of them could also support bicycles within limits and so far the Forest Service has permitted this on most trails. When people decide to create new trails or alter existing ones (changing switchbacks, etc.) on their own they're going contrary to those that created and manage the trails. When people ride downhill in a manner that could not reasonably avoid a family hiking the trail they are going contrary to those that decided to permit cycling on the trail. Now if you can talk those folks in to permitting the change then great, but "we the people" have chosen to let folks like the Forest Service manage these taking into account feedback from many diverse groups and we should respect their decisions or lobby to get changes.

    So bomb aggresively downhill in places designed for that and go carefully downhill in places designed for hiking and other purposes. And don't just rely on yelling alerts -- the only way to safely pass families, birdwatchers, etc. is slowing before you get to them.

  37. #37
    Just another FOCer
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    Well put DT.
    "I hope your gravity droppers all seize up....BASTIDS." - Aquaholic

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  38. #38
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    I'm going to try to and respect your opinion here. But, you're just wrong. Call it an elitist attitude if you will, but I, along with a number of others, spend countless hours doing what we can to maintain the trails, specifically Noble Canyon, here in San Diego.

    I trust that you as a responsible mountain biker do the same and give back to the trails that you frequent.

    "You want it your way, buy some land". That is a really dumb comment. That same mindset is exactly why so many of our trails are hammered beyond recognition in areas. If all users had this attitude of "Ohh Well, the trail is just gonna evolve and change, so there's no point in being proactive in an attempt to preserve it".



    It's unfortunate that you interpret my comments as "MTBers bittching about MTBers is a waste of breath in the big picture".

    "Bittching about it as a waste of time"???? Bittching, perhaps. But, I put my Pulaski where my mouth is. I'm curious....when you are riding your local trails and you see someone riding irresponsibly, or doing something destructive to the trail, do you turn the other cheek, or do you call them on it? When you see some brush that has overgrown onto the trail do you simply ride wide to avoid it, or do you stop and cut it back to help promote people of all user groups sticking to the original line?

    It's largely because of people with your narrow minded mindset that you see widened, blown out turns on what was once sweet 8" wide singletrack. But, Ohh well, right....There's nothing that can be done because the trails will "evolve".

    Are you missing the point completely, of the examples that I've posted here? Or, are you just looking for a cyber fight?

    Aqua

    PS For what it's worth, I work closely with the members of SDMBA and the forest service regarding maintenance at Noble Canyon. And, yes..that includes the use of pry bars. It's a very special place and I'll do what I can to help preserve it's beauty.

    No cyber fight, just a point of view.

    See the difference between you and me is obvious. I respect you and your opinions. I don’t call your opinions wrong. They are just opinions. You however are convinced that you are right and others are wrong. You believe that your level of effort and public advocacy have entitled you to deem what someon else does as bad or wrong. You believe that someone with less conviction to mtbing than you should have less say. I commend you in your efforts. I respect you in your advocacy, but I don't have to agree with you. I don't have to accept what you have laid out in front of me as the right line, or the right attitude nor do I assume the role of judge and jury towards any MTBer. When I see trash on the trail....I pick it up. End of story. I don't need to make a post about how I'm gonna beat someone’s a**. I just pick it up and ride on.

    Education, etiquette, respect, these are all things you learn over time. Some do and some don't. There is no contract of proper MTBing. Your anger towards less knowledgeable, uncaring MTBers only feeds that type of personality.
    The face of MTBing is changing. More bikers, not more trails. Shorter learning curves, less mentoring. It's just a fact. The "way it should be" or "way it was" sermons don't do anything but make the person giving them feel better. Whether or not the change is good won't prolong the fact that it will happen.

    Don't take my "Buy Land" comment out of context. There is a big difference between preservation and maintenance. Mountain bikes are not conducive to preserving land. The act in it's self is destructive. Up, down it doesn't matter since it is public land we all have the same right to ride it our way. If you choose to put in hundreds of hours grooming to your liking, that is your prerogative, but you have to accept that you still no more own that trail than anyone. If you want your values and criteria for proper use followed, then you shouldn't be putting your efforts into public trails and then flaming people who use them differently. Again, what’s right for you and many like you just doesn't hold true for everyone.

    You are an advocate of mountain biking. I'm sure have put in countless hours towards trying to keep these great trains open and I thank you for that, but again that is your choice. You need to be doing that for your pleasure, not as some badge to waive in the face of someone who doesn't see things the same way. ME? Yes I do get off the saddle and work the trails. I could probably stand to do it more, but as it were I'm just a MTBer. I made most my friends biking, my passion lies in MTBing and my life has enough politics and drama in it to keep me from ever getting upset whilst MTBing. I have faith that this Rock we live on will be just fine.
    Last edited by offtheedge; 07-13-2006 at 03:02 PM.

  39. #39
    Leash Law Enforcer
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    Good points here guys. In my classic fence-sitter fashion I can honestly say that I see the merit to both sides.

    I'm just curious . . . With respect to Noble - Would the Forest Service be opposed to allowing SDMBA to post some sign or even hand out pamphlets at the top (and bottom) on what is considered to be good mtb etiquette or "trail-saving" technique? I know that no one but the Forest Service would have an answer to that question but I wonder if it has ever been brought up before. I think that would be a worth while effort that would help to educate the community, or at least those riding there. I can't imagine why the Forest Service would oppose it as it would help their cause to maintain the trail in a safe and environmentally friendly manner.

    BTW - Aqua, it is good to see you posting again. I was afraid that the Homers had chased you off for good!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquaholic
    GODDAMNIT! Are you people really this F'n stupid?!! Quit discussing this crap in an open Forum. DFT, you of all people should know better. Take this crap off line if you want to name trails.

    It's no wonder the good stuff gets closed down.

    SHEESH.

    How many F'n times do we have to go over this?

    The first rule of fight club is................
    Aqua, the cat's out of the bag. Check out the back two pages of the F'n UT's Sports Page today. They call it "Flip Side" and they are advertizing ATT, Noble, SJT and others. We'll have every Wallmart bike in the county out there with us soon.

  41. #41
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by SortaSlow
    Aqua, the cat's out of the bag. Check out the back two pages of the F'n UT's Sports Page today. They call it "Flip Side" and they are advertizing ATT, Noble, SJT and others. We'll have every Wallmart bike in the county out there with us soon.

    HAAAAAAAAA! Wow, thank you for that. You just put a glaring exclamation point at the end of everything I've said. Fine work.

  42. #42
    Time flies...
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    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    You however are convinced that you are right and others are wrong. You believe that your level of effort and public advocacy have entitled you to deem what someon else does as bad or wrong. .

    You (almost) sound like a responsible adult here, but you're really missing THE POINT.

    Aqua is not stating what he thinks is right or wrong, he is simply stating the standard guidelines that all responsible trail users already know.
    Have you ever had a trail you use (let alone one of your favorites) closed to bikes because "more bikes = trail evolution"?? If you had, then you would understand. It really does happen. Snow Summit (Big Bear) now has strict rules about "DH" bikes not being allowed because of what we're talking about here. It does happen.
    Unfortunaltely, we really don't have any WFO DH trails in the county. Luckily, we still have a number of multi-use trails open to us though. None of us want to lose any more.
    It's the few people who hammer DH so fast that they can't avoid a collision (pedal=shin) and the ones who are disrespectful at the trailheads (music/noise/trash...) and the ones that cut trails that spoil it for the rest of us.
    If you want to live and ride in San Diego/SoCal, do yourself and all of us a favor and get with the program...

    btw- I too wish someone would open a proper DH/freeride area around here. It would be fun and help solve the problem...
    ...every day sends future to past...

  43. #43
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    Don't appreciate the attempted lecture, I just wanted to point out the damage that was done today by our local newspaper. You may not keep up with the news, but I urge you to take a look at today's sports page on the San Diego Union-Tribune. A LARGE, two-page-wide spread titled "Sweet Trail Mix" goes on with lengthy details about a list of SOCAL trails. For those of us who want to keep the trails "low key" this is a big setback.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SortaSlow
    Don't appreciate the attempted lecture, I just wanted to point out the damage that was done today by our local newspaper. You may not keep up with the news, but I urge you to take a look at today's sports page on the San Diego Union-Tribune. A LARGE, two-page-wide spread titled "Sweet Trail Mix" goes on with lengthy details about a list of SOCAL trails. For those of us who want to keep the trails "low key" this is a big setback.

    word...

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports...13sweettr.html
    ...every day sends future to past...

  45. #45
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    It sure is great to see so much passion in this thread, if I could get half as much passion from people regarding actually coming out for trailwork, Noble would be one sweet ribbon of singletrack! I personally think there is too much over reacting going on here, tho.

    I hate to see the trail change for the worse because someone made the trail rideable instead of learning to ride the trail. But everyone is entitled to enjoy Multi-use trails and that includes riders who haven't put in the blood, sweat and tears of some of the more seasoned riders, at least they are out there trying and all they want is the same thing as you or me, to have a good time. I wonder if some riders can even recall their first time on Noble and how much walking they did or wondering "how does anybody ride any of this".

    It's important to keep this all in perspective, don't stare at your front wheel, look far down the trail.

    And don't forget to support your local trail workers.

    mark@sdmba.com
    Shuttle Noble? Hell No!

  46. #46
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    [QUOTE=offtheedge]No cyber fight, just a point of view.

    "See the difference between you and me is obvious. I respect you and your opinions. I don't call your opinions wrong. They are just opinions. You however are convinced that you are right and others are wrong. You believe that your level of effort and public advocacy have entitled you to deem what someonelse does as bad or wrong. You believe that someone with less conviction to mtbing than you should have less say. I commened you in your efforts. I respect you in your advocacy, but i don't have to agree with you. I don't have to accept what you have laid out in front of me as the right line, or the right attitude nor do i assume the role of judge and jury towards any MTBer. When i see trash on the trail....I pick it up. End of story. I don't need to make a post about how I'm gonna beat someones a**. I just pick it up and ride on".

    WOW, your ability to get inside my head and tell me what I believe and how I think is uncanny! Here, try to wrap your head around this concept.... There is a huge difference between having polarized viewpoints and then having those attitudes spill over into behaviour on the trail. In the context of our discussion here, I think it comes down to an issue of education. You're absolutely correct, I am beyond frustrated with what I see going on out there. It pisses me off when I see user groups(not exclusively MTB'ers) who are hemorraging our favorite trails. Some of it is intentional,and some of it is out of sheer ignorance. So, it becomes an issue of educating those who do stupid things that in turn either totally degrade the trail or worse, get us expelled completely. Am I to understand that what you're saying is that you find it perfectly acceptable for riders to create an off trail line because as tax payers it is their god given right?

    Do we really need to get into the specifics as to why this is fundamentally wrong? Are you really that much in the dark?

    It's this turning of the cheek attitude and unwillingness to speak up that I find chickenshiit. So, you see a Gu wrapper on the trail and you pick it up. That's killer. I challenge you to take it a step further.




    Education, etiquette, respect, these are all things you learn over time. Some do and some don't. There is no contract of proper MTBing.Your anger towards less knowledgable, uncaring MTBers only feeds that type of personality.
    The face of MTBing is changing. More bikers, not more trails. Shorter learning curves, less mentoring. It's just a fact. The "way it should be" or "way it was" sermens don't do anything but make the person giving them feel better. Whether or not the change is good won't prolong the fact that it will happen.

    That is a fatalistic attitude. "There is no contract of proper MTBing" There sure as hell is...IMBA guidelines spells out all kinds of protocol. C'mon man, it boils down to common sense. No, you know what? It's a lot more than common sense. It's F'n laziness and a disregard for others.

    "Don't take my "Buy Land" comment out of context. There is a big difference between preservation and maintenence. Mountain bikes are not conducive to preserving land. The act in it's self is destructive. Up, down it doesn't matter since it is public land we all have the same right to ride it our way. If you choose to put in hundreds of hours grooming to your liking, that is your perogative, but you have to accept that you still no more own that trail than anyone. If you want your values and criteria for proper use followed, then you shouldn't be putting your efforts into public trails and then flaming people who use them differently. Again, whats right for you and many like you just doesn't hold true for everyone".

    "Up, down it doesn't matter since it is public land we all have the same right to ride it our way. If you choose to put in hundreds of hours grooming to your liking, that is your perogative, but you have to accept that you still no more own that trail than anyone. If you want your values and criteria for proper use followed, then you shouldn't be putting your efforts into public trails and then flaming people who use them differently. Again, whats right for you and many like you just doesn't hold true for everyone".


    What do you mean don't take my "Buy land" comment out of context? How the hell else am I to take that? And, where did you read that I proclaimed ownership to any trail? But, here's the thing.. if I have to come across as an assshole and risk hurting some delicate little sensitive trail user's feelings to ensure that OUR trail doesn't end up looking like SJT, then that's tough. Again, some of the crap your selling here doesn't fly. You are looking at the world with blinders on if you think that my efforts being put into public trails are somehow misguided. It's the selfish viewpoint of people who make comments like this that get trails closed down to us.


    Do I feel strongly about this? Hell yes! I am beyond pissed when I see challenging lines filled in with boulders, or obstacles removed so that someone who is just too lazy to learn how to negotiate it, takes it upon themselves to dumb it down to their level.
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 07-13-2006 at 08:12 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  47. #47
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    I am a downhiller and freerider but 99% of the time I ride up the hill before going down.I also build the trails I jump on so I don't mind breaking through it. Besides that's the only way to turn when your flying down a hill at 50 mph. Some downhillers and shuttlers aren't lazy and at least we don't wear those spandex shorts like xc geeks lol.
    Last edited by skyjumper; 07-13-2006 at 08:07 PM.

  48. #48
    "Ride Lots" - Eddie Mercx
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    walking? who walks noble?

    He!!, I remember walking the staircase after already successfully cleaning it before and thinking to myself "how in the HE!! to people ride this" yet I was one of them!

    YR

  49. #49
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by skyjumper
    Where are the freeriding trails in san diego at? I can't find to many good ones.
    Thanks,
    Wil
    I heard there were some good ones near Miramar. Just tell the Marines your good buddy Al Kida sent you. They'll show you the goods.

  50. #50
    mechmann_mtb
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    Wow.

    One thing I CAN say for sure, roadies don't fight like this! (they just fight over who takes more EPO/hormones) LOL

    I too like to ride fast downhill, but I really do my best to stay within my limits. I do this for the safety of others mostly (my friends know I don't have much concern for my own safety LOL) The few times I have startled other trail users I have made sure to appologize, although at that point the damage is already done. I don't have a good solution for the problem of startling other users, except maybe restricting trails to specified direction (uphill, downhill, clockwise loop etc) I think the most important thing is to try to respect each other and educate the ignorant. There are a few people who cannot be helped, like the skidiots that almost knocked my wife off a cliff because they were descending SJT with their feet on the head tube instead of their pedals. These people just need to get beat with a bat.

    I don't do much trail work, but I do my best to educate my fellow riders when I can. I teach people how not to skid through switchbacks, to embrace difficult sections of trails (or walk and admire the skill of others, I am certainly not above this and neither should they be, riding with Aqua is an excersize in humility).

    I for one would hate to see any more trails in the socal area get shut down due to the neglect/ignorance of people who simply don't care.

  51. #51
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    sustainable trails

    On a more serious note than my flip comment above, a lot of the trails I ride up in central California have legitimate "cheater" lines around the tech sections, OR have the tech sections as an alternate line. I think it helps stabilize tough trail sections by giving folks a legit bail-out, and probably helps the riding community build skills. Plus it means that a trail with alternate lines can be done alternate ways, keeping it fresh longer.

  52. #52
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    I agree with many on this board... just remember fight club. I was lucky enough to spend an afternoon with Aqauholic and DirtyD and a few others. We rode some EPIC trails and I am smart enough to not post anything about them on an open forum.

    Aquaholic and his friends are epic MTB's and I am lucky to have met them and spent some time with them on trails....

  53. #53
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    So what is the solution? More and more the trails are getting changed by anyone who thinks their view is better (I am 100% in with Aquaholic). I am feelign downright violent about the things happening and it is everywhere.

    We used to have a saying.
    "Don't be the 13th inch, keep single track single."
    What happened?

    I used to think more people on biles was a good thing. I do not anymore. The freeride and downhill thing just kills the trails and brings users with a lot less respect. I know I am goign to take abuse for this post but I have to agree with those who think propper trail edicate is leaving it as close as possible to as you found it. Th epciture in Aqua's post with people addin a line to the outside is just infuriating. Why would'nt they just get off and walk that 4 ft section. How can there be so little respect?

    We need to figure it out because what happens is the trails get maintenized and completely rerouted around monkey business like this to save form erosion. I like that staricase, I can ride it but it took me walking a time or two first.

    Are we going to get to gorrilla war fare. Beating people on the trails and covering trail cuts with spikes and thorns? That is about where I am at.
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  54. #54
    Why aren't you riding????
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    What is it with you guys? You all seem educated; you write nice responses with proper grammar, but how about coming down off your high horse for a second and be realistic. If you would stop this "us against them" attitude for a second and just look at it without instantly assuming that all Dhers don't give a f*!k about the land you might see the problem.
    Instead you're going to get pissed off because some kid on a 45lb bike with huge tires and suspension is tearing up the trail. No sh!t! What do you think all these new MTBers are buying? Where should they ride? Should they not want to go fast? I'm sure every one of them would love to be somewhere riding that they didn't have to dodge uphill elbows or look out for hikers and horses, but alas they don't. They have the same public trail system you and I use. Does it suck? Sure it does, but change has consequences. You can scream and rant all you want, but fact is the bikes have changed and so has the riding style. It's called progression and whether or not it's good won't change the facts.

    All you chickenshits need to just say what you hate is big bikes. You hate what they do to trails. You hate the kids who ride them and you hate the fact that you have to share what once were your trails. You guys preach respect and give none.

  55. #55
    Granny
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    So what is the solution? More and more the trails are getting changed by anyone who thinks their view is better (I am 100% in with Aquaholic). I am feelign downright violent about the things happening and it is everywhere.

    We used to have a saying.
    "Don't be the 13th inch, keep single track single."
    What happened?

    I used to think more people on biles was a good thing. I do not anymore. The freeride and downhill thing just kills the trails and brings users with a lot less respect. I know I am goign to take abuse for this post but I have to agree with those who think propper trail edicate is leaving it as close as possible to as you found it. Th epciture in Aqua's post with people addin a line to the outside is just infuriating. Why would'nt they just get off and walk that 4 ft section. How can there be so little respect?

    We need to figure it out because what happens is the trails get maintenized and completely rerouted around monkey business like this to save form erosion. I like that staricase, I can ride it but it took me walking a time or two first.

    Are we going to get to gorrilla war fare. Beating people on the trails and covering trail cuts with spikes and thorns? That is about where I am at.



    I'm against cheater lines too, but violence isn't the answer dude. You wanted to beat someone down over a cut overhanging branch on the Flightline thread.

  56. #56
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    I dunno. I changed a post at the behest of Aqua earlier and I sort of regret it. I removed mention of a trail that is quite clearly mentioned on some of the best Socal trail reference sites on the web. (mt. bike bill) I really hate the 'keep it under the radar' attitude. Its not been in my experience the best way to keep trails open. Well, I shouldn't say trails, lets say recreational areas instead. In the past I've dealt with access issues to climbing crags. Let me now make a plug for a great organization:

    www.accessfund.org

    Really, you guys ought to read through that site. Most, if not all of the stuff they do to keep climbing areas open is applicable to what you should be doing for these trails. If there isn't an organization like for mountain biking, maybe start one. I'd say call them as they might help anyway, but it isn't really fair to the climbers giving money to climbing access issues if they were to spend money for biking issues. I guess just read what they suggest trying. it works.

    As for previous statements about the DH crowd being lazy, or just not able to ride up stuff like the SJT, all I'll say about these statements is that they are made out of sheer ignorance. I shuttle SJT and Noble with my DH rig all the time. But it has nothing to do with the fact that I can't ride up them. I ride XC about twice as often as I DH, I just enjoy shuttling those trails. And I shuttle because DH is a lot more fun when you are fresh and can focus fully on riding. Having riden up these trails, I know full well that it is actually faster to ride my XC bike up and back, I just have a lot less fun, and thats all there is to it. You didn't have to call me lazy, you could have just asked before having made a completely wrong statement like that.

    I don't think the damage caused by DH / FR riders has anything to do with inherant lack of respect. When I'm riding XC it isn't because I respect the trails I XC on more than I respect the trails I DH on. If XC riding had the same impact on trails as my DH, it wouldn't change the way or frequency with which i ride. Maybe you are different, maybe you bought a XC rig simply because you respect the trails more than I do, and if you did, props. But I bet for a vast majority of riders, impact on the trails played little part in which discipline they picked up.

    Now, Aqua points out that a bunch these trails are multi use. I wholly agree. That means I can use it for DH if I want. You can complain about it all you want, but it is my right. If what you want is to stop DH'ers from using it, good luck with that. I seriously doubt that will happen. One thing I will say is this: certain design considerations need to be taken into account when making multiuse trails, whether its for DH riders, horses, or whatever. Like it or not, the face of mountain biking now includes DH and FR and that needs to be thought about when building them. To illustrate this I will point out that the most aggressive free ride trails on earth also happen to be in one of the wetter environments on earth, in Vancouver BC. It is painfully obvious to anyone whose ridden up there that there really isn't that much erosion on those trails and thats because they were built right. Maybe before you ***** about erosion again you should take a trip up there and see how they do it. Heck, if you want I'll take pictures of how they do it next time I am up there.


    CA

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    What is it with you guys? You all seem educated; you write nice responses with proper grammar, but how about coming down off your high horse for a second and be realistic. If you would stop this "us against them" attitude for a second and just look at it without instantly assuming that all Dhers don't give a f*!k about the land you might see the problem.
    Instead you're going to get pissed off because some kid on a 45lb bike with huge tires and suspension is tearing up the trail. No sh!t! What do you think all these new MTBers are buying? Where should they ride? Should they not want to go fast? I'm sure every one of them would love to be somewhere riding that they didn't have to dodge uphill elbows or look out for hikers and horses, but alas they don't. They have the same public trail system you and I use. Does it suck? Sure it does, but change has consequences. You can scream and rant all you want, but fact is the bikes have changed and so has the riding style. It's called progression and whether or not it's good won't change the facts.

    All you chickenshits need to just say what you hate is big bikes. You hate what they do to trails. You hate the kids who ride them and you hate the fact that you have to share what once were your trails. You guys preach respect and give none.
    It's not big bikes that are tearing up the trails, it's riders who buy a big bike and suddenly think they are a DHer yet don't have the skill to negotiate a switchback without locking the rear brake or the courtesy to check their speed for other trail users. It's Noobs on Walmart bikes without the sense to wear a helmet, leaving cigarette butts and reflectors all over the place and don't get me started on Racer Boi who's on a training mission, straight lining corners and can't acknowledge you because his heart rate is sky high.

    And just because new MTBers are buying big bikes or want to go fast does not justify inappropriate or inconsiderate riding on Multi-use trails.

    My point is, it is not any one facet of mtn biking, it is all of us and we need to be conscious of our actions on the trail and ride with respect or face the consequences.

    (I wonder if this problem would exist if Snow Summit was still open)

    mark@sdmba.com
    Shuttle Noble? Hell No!

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada

    Now, Aqua points out that a bunch these trails are multi use. I wholly agree. That means I can use it for DH if I want. You can complain about it all you want, but it is my right.

    CA
    No, you can't. And it is not your right, that would be very foolish think so.

    Obviously, DH bikes are allowed on Multi-use trails, too bad they aren't allowed on Snow Summit, those were once Multi-use trails on Forest Service land as well...

    mark@sdmba.com
    Shuttle Noble? Hell No!

  59. #59
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    You mind explaining why it isn't my right Mark?

    I'm pretty sure as long as I respect the laws dealing with speed and yeilding i'm fine.

    The thing with SS, as unfortunate as it is, wasn't a forest service decision. It was a desicion by a private corporate entity to stop loading DH bikes onto their privately owned lift and to stop maintaining all trails intended to be used by such bikes. As so far as I can tell, the only role the Forest Service played was in complaining about 'black' trails some people were getting to using the lifts. I can also tell you that restrictions on the bikes certainly isn't stopping anyone from using them. Just so recently as earlier this monthI was invited out to said trails.

    Now, I'll be honest, I haven't dealt with access stuff for a while, so my memory is a bit hazy. All trail construction outside the Snow Summit permit area has to be cleared by the FS. So they are rightly upset about the trails I've mentioned. The same goes for any 'cheater' lines at other trails on forest service land. I don't know how BLM policy has changed since i last looked, but it used to be really lax.

  60. #60
    Negative Rep Points!!!!
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    I've received a lot of emails and PM's regarding this topic. Thanks, BTW to those that have taken the time to do so.

    I'd like to share one of those emails with you:

    "Mountain biking needs a cleansing.

    I feel there are two types of mountain bikers in
    SoCal. Those who get it and those who don't. The
    ones who don't can normally be seen riding the same
    two a-technical trails over and over again, with an
    occasional venture to somewhwere "cool". When they
    get somewhere foreign that challenges them, they take
    the lazy route or make a lazy route because they just
    don't get it. Those who get it, ride everywhere they
    can and ride it well, never being too proud to walk
    something that is beyond their ability, or their
    bike's capability.

    The popularity of mountain biking is killing the
    trails and not by volume, but by the quality of the
    riders. Before Fruita was popular and only cool
    riders were being invited in, those trails never had
    any skid bumps or blow turns. In fact, there are
    still a few trails in Fruita like that, where only
    those in the know get to ride. You can take a group
    of 20 quality riders on one of those pristine trails
    and it will be better than it was before that group
    ride it. You can take 5 crappy riders and totally
    screw that same trail up in one ride as well.

    I like preaching to the choir"


    I think the one thing that resonates with me is this statement:

    "The popularity of mountain biking is killing the
    trails and not by volume, but by the quality of the
    riders".
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  61. #61
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    I think part of the point that I was trying to make, and I think that Mark sort of reinforced is that there are a lot of people who are going to ride in ways that current trails aren't built to deal with. Be it DH or inexperience on a walmart bike.

    I'm just argueing that maybe we should start building trails to better deal with the way that the trails are going to be ridden. I think the task of getting the masses to ride the way you ride is going to be impossible.

    CA

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarnageAsada
    To illustrate this I will point out that the most aggressive free ride trails on earth also happen to be in one of the wetter environments on earth, in Vancouver BC. It is painfully obvious to anyone whose ridden up there that there really isn't that much erosion on those trails and thats because they were built right. Maybe before you ***** about erosion again you should take a trip up there and see how they do it. Heck, if you want I'll take pictures of how they do it next time I am up there.
    These two are suppose to be comparable? You have purpose built freeride trails in a very wet alpine forest environment compared to a multi-use trail system comprised of fragments of trails built by gold prospectors and ranchers as far back as the late 1800's in a mostly desert environment. Bikes where the last things on their minds.

    Its not about what kind of bike, its about having respect for the trail system and realizing you not the only person/group on this planet using it.

    Whats wrong with wanting to keep single track single?

  63. #63
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    Having spent time on a trail crew I can tell you that I'm am quite certain that the trails have seen some maitainance since it was built in the 1800's. If work is going to go into these trails, why not lay down some rocks in the corner or put a berm in? I know as an XC rider, those wouldn't ruin my ride going up. Not that lack of that sort of stuff would hurt my DH ride either, but it would give the trail longevity.

    Change the trail to reflect the way its being used today. You guys can sit here and lay down the best arguement on earth about why people should ride better, or ride a different bike. But how many people are going to see it? how many of them that see it are going to care? You guys are trying to fight human nature and it isn't a fight i see you winning with this approach.

    And with that I'm going to bow out of this thread.


    PS: I don't normally drag my brakes, but I'll do it once or twice just for you aqua.

  64. #64
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    AQUA - you are right on. Keep fighting entropy.

    C
    Grand claims demand grand proof.

  65. #65
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTail29er
    AQUA - you are right on. Keep fighting entropy.

    C
    Finally a thread that actually gets riders to think about the privilege they have to ride these trails. I say privilege because it is a a privilege and should be treated as such. Before it is taken away from us. MTB Mark brought up the fact that Snow Summit used to be multi purpose until a group of so called riders took advantage of that "privilege". Now look at what that area has become. Lets all just get along and try to follow the same etiquette. I agree wholeheartedly with what Aqua is saying about changing the trails to your skill level. If you come upon a section of trail that is too difficult for your skill level, hike A bike it through or repeat the section until you conquer it. You will feel a great sense of accomplishment and your skill level will step up a notch. But please don't "change" the trail and ruin it for others.

  66. #66
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    Planned Cheater Lines

    Also, regarding dumbing down the trails, it should be noted that when possible an alternate cheater route should be put in for those of lower skill level vis-a-vis the Whistler guidelines. That way the beginners have an out that is controlled and designed properly. I know that it's not always possible but just throwing in my pennies.

  67. #67
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amdoo
    Also, regarding dumbing down the trails, it should be noted that when possible an alternate cheater route should be put in for those of lower skill level vis-a-vis the Whistler guidelines. That way the beginners have an out that is controlled and designed properly. I know that it's not always possible but just throwing in my pennies.

    nice idea, but i seriously doubt that will ever happen. there just is no precendent for it here (on a highly used multi-use trail) comparing whistler to noble, hmm lets see, that is like comparing einstein to bush in IQ, a taaaaaad different . now noble would be great if it was pure ladders, skinnies, hucks and tables the whole way down.; whoops, sorry i was day dreaming while at work again, gotta stop that.

  68. #68
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    thanks to all who posted. Its annoying when new lines grow out of places on the middle of yuor favorite single track...

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