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  1. #1
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    Flightline Alterations

    I would be very satisfied if the right person were to read this. Who are you who cut down a large tree branch on the trail coming up from the bridge at the end of the skyline trail. I always cleaned that tree and personally witnessed taller riders clean it. Why do you feel a trail can be altered to your riding ability? Did you make disposition of the limb or did you just litter the trail side with the debris? Yeah right after the trail was brought down to this guy's riding ability the limb was just left on the side. I also noticed rocks that had been used to protect the trail shoulder had been moved into a small gully to make it easier to clean. Was that your hard sweat that put in the trail? I didn't think so. Then why move rocks that were used to stabilize the trail shoulder when you should be improving your riding ability? You belong on a fire road please ride at the state parks where your ability belongs. I see stuff all the time like squeeze two or the jump above it and I simply bypass them because I am not up to that stuff. I leave the stuff alone for the challenge it provides others . Tonight I ran into another rider who also noticed the missing limb because it provided a technical to him on another wise ordinary section. I have a friend who always cleaned it and he is 53 yrs old and 6-2. You are pathetic! Take your saw else where. Better then having you read this I HOPE TO CATCH YOU altering other trail technicals.:mad2:

  2. #2
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    Taffy,
    I don't know who cut the branch.
    All I have to say is I agree, I'm not
    the most technical rider, I go around
    or walk the stufff I can't do. I've learned
    a lot and have became a more technical
    rider because ot YOUR AWSOME trails.
    I've been riding for almost 20 years. You're
    doing an AWESOME JOB. keep it up.
    We really enjoy your trails.
    Clyde.

  3. #3
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    What a shame that some riders think they have to "improve" a trail by making it easier. I noticed the missing branch as well and was dissapointed about removing an obstacle that I was able to clean after a few tries. Also what happend to the roots? I have been working on that section for the longest time and was just about getting to a point that I might clean it without crashing. It's still a nice section but not quite as challenging anymore. Overall I always feel like I'm honored to ride in this area, it's unique and challenging. Thank you taffy and others for the real hard work you put in there. If you ever decide to post a collection box on the trail to cover materials, I'll be the first one to contribute.

  4. #4
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    Do I understand this "branch" to be something that one would ride under?

  5. #5
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    man that sucks.....at least you can put the rocks back
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  6. #6
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    Don't get me wrong, I love to get close-lined in the head by a low branch because I forgot to duck or especially across the ribs causing an instant 180. These obstacles are not technical nor enjoyable but purely a point of inconvenience and pain. I also like overgrown trails

  7. #7
    Glad to Be Alive
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdbike
    Don't get me wrong, I love to get close-lined in the head by a low branch because I forgot to duck or especially across the ribs causing an instant 180. These obstacles are not technical nor enjoyable but purely a point of inconvenience and pain. I also like overgrown trails
    maybe someone can explain about the cut branch....do you ride over, under or to the side???
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  8. #8
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    I noticed that too....
    Gotta admit, I've removed a few branches in the past.
    But that's after I've taken a serious smack in the face by them, and saw stars!
    (like the one just above the root section on Dawson).

    I don't like when someone takes a technical rock section and "pussifys" it either!
    Last edited by Mudd; 05-08-2006 at 06:21 PM.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  9. #9
    Lord of the Chainrings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde
    Taffy,
    I don't know who cut the branch.
    All I have to say is I agree, I'm not
    the most technical rider, I go around
    or walk the stufff I can't do. I've learned
    a lot and have became a more technical
    rider because ot YOUR AWSOME trails.
    I've been riding for almost 20 years. You're
    doing an AWESOME JOB. keep it up.
    We really enjoy your trails.
    Clyde.
    I agree with Clyde!
    I've been riding Flatline for 11 years now....changes for the better, in spite of the developers "raping" the adjacent land.
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  10. #10
    mechmann_mtb
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    somebody stacked rocks on a few of my favorite tech sections on SJT. it was almost a let down when i cleared a few spots, thought they were easier, went back and realized that my accomplishment was tainted by the fact that some focker was making the trail so HE could clean it.

    the other major let-down was low branch that was there the last time we rode was also removed. i was really bummed by its removal. one of those just above eye level head destroyers that you know is there if you DON'T SHUTTLE. thats what they make full face helmets for right?

  11. #11
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    Illegal trails are one thing

    Any unsanctioned trail maintenance on a legal trial is probably against the law. If the legal authorities see any trail that has been modified by someone other than proper maintenance personal then that legal trail could be closed.
    One of the rules of trail riding for me is this, if I can't ride it, I try harder or walk.

  12. #12
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    I am with Taffy - if you Pusses cannot duck then go ride a bike path. If I see you cutting on a trail that you DID NOT CREATE from begining to end like Taffy I am gonna kick your ass too. And I am out ther allot! THis also goes for you pusses who add traverses across 3 or 4 trails so you can by pass tough climbs. You freeride DHers are killing MTBiking. Flightline is almost a curse because any yahoo with time can do whatever they want regardless of the long term impact. Taffys trails rule and should be left as he designed them, tree branches rocks, spikes death drops whatever. Don't like it go to Dailey.
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  13. #13
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    You freeride DHers are killing MTBiking.
    first off, this statement shows that your sweeping generalization of anyone who doesn't ride like you is bad for MTBing........good work!

    second, I commend anyone who puts the time and effort into building/maintaining any trails. A little work goes a long way, but the reality is if these trails are on public land then ANYONE has the same right to maintain them. This doesn't mean they legally have the right to, but then who does?
    Not everyone has 20 years of trail etiquette under their belt; I doubt the alterations were a direct attempt at ruining "YOUR LINE". If these trails are open to the public then you're going to have to deal with bikers who ride them differently. If you put your time and effort into a public trail then that is the risk.

    I have never been on this trail, but I'm assuming the changes were made in an attempt to make the line downhill line faster? If so, then why isn't this anymore acceptable then you making it harder?

    I personally don't think any grooming should be done aside from water barring the erosion. Getting through the natural line is what I enjoy, but I don't own the land I ride on and whether I like it or not someone is going to feel the need to change it.

  14. #14
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    Faster.........

    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    first off, this statement shows that your sweeping generalization of anyone who doesn't ride like you is bad for MTBing........good work!

    second, I commend anyone who puts the time and effort into building/maintaining any trails. A little work goes a long way, but the reality is if these trails are on public land then ANYONE has the same right to maintain them. This doesn't mean they legally have the right to, but then who does?
    Not everyone has 20 years of trail etiquette under their belt; I doubt the alterations were a direct attempt at ruining "YOUR LINE". If these trails are open to the public then you're going to have to deal with bikers who ride them differently. If you put your time and effort into a public trail then that is the risk.

    I have never been on this trail, but I'm assuming the changes were made in an attempt to make the line downhill line faster? If so, then why isn't this anymore acceptable then you making it harder?

    I personally don't think any grooming should be done aside from water barring the erosion. Getting through the natural line is what I enjoy, but I don't own the land I ride on and whether I like it or not someone is going to feel the need to change it.


    Yeah, I've never been on this trail either....................
    It needs to be Faster, it's not tight enough.
    Clyde.

  15. #15
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    I think this statement is incorrect. ."but the reality is if these trails are on public land then ANYONE has the same right to maintain them."

    If the trail is on public land then it is not us "The public" that can change a trail. The "government" can change a trail. Taxes create public land, not users of the public land.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...95#post1841495

  16. #16
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by noslogan
    I think this statement is incorrect. ."but the reality is if these trails are on public land then ANYONE has the same right to maintain them."

    If the trail is on public land then it is not us "The public" that can change a trail. The "government" can change a trail. Taxes create public land, not users of the public land.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...95#post1841495

    Agreed, that's why I tried to stay away from any direct implication that one person has anymore right than the other.
    Unless you are under authorization of said government body then you shouldn't be doing any alterations.

    The point is, Dh'ers aren't ruining anything accept what used to be XCers own private trails. This whole go-downers vs. go-uppers is gay. You don't have to like the way another MTBer rides, but you had better accept that they have the same rights you do on public land.
    Every type of riding has it's share of A$$hats, but to say all of any group is ruining things is just stupid.

  17. #17
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    Most of the land is own by the Wong family which most or their parcels are currently being developing into Carlsbad Oaks North. The creek areas are own by San Diego County, and Dawson Canyon is a protected natural preserve own by UCSD. As for myself I own 0.14 acres directly next door since 1993.
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  18. #18
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    R-e-s-p-e-c-t

    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    first off, this statement shows that your sweeping generalization of anyone who doesn't ride like you is bad for MTBing........good work!

    second, I commend anyone who puts the time and effort into building/maintaining any trails. A little work goes a long way, but the reality is if these trails are on public land then ANYONE has the same right to maintain them. This doesn't mean they legally have the right to, but then who does?
    Not everyone has 20 years of trail etiquette under their belt; I doubt the alterations were a direct attempt at ruining "YOUR LINE". If these trails are open to the public then you're going to have to deal with bikers who ride them differently. If you put your time and effort into a public trail then that is the risk.

    I have never been on this trail, but I'm assuming the changes were made in an attempt to make the line downhill line faster? If so, then why isn't this anymore acceptable then you making it harder?

    I personally don't think any grooming should be done aside from water barring the erosion. Getting through the natural line is what I enjoy, but I don't own the land I ride on and whether I like it or not someone is going to feel the need to change it.

    Someone, not the jerk off who cut the tree branch, but Taffy built the trail. As far as any kind of ethics that gives him the right to decide where it is technical and where it is fast. Pump tracks have there place too. This is just not one of them. If jerk off with the saw wants to make his own trails then by all means have at! There are still several places to put a trail left if he gets off his lazy ass and does some work of his own instead of screwing with the work of others. That is the issue. Sweeping generalizations are generally true. Not uncommon to see guys out there smoking cigarettes and tossing gatorade containers now. People who ride up rarely have so little respect for nature. It goes like anything else if you earn it you are naturally inclinded to respect it. Anything just given to you is worthless. IE the smokign DHers cutting traverses across 4 or 5 good trails to avoid a climb. That just hurts us all. Flightline is starting to prove what I think most people think about us MTBers and that is we have no respect for nature. There was a time when a hard line could be drawn between the throttle twisters and the pedalers. No longer. It looks to me that before long we will have a lifeless sand dune park thanks to brainless work. Taffy does it right. Others are good efforts - upper squeeze is killer lower squeeze will be fun till a real rain take out the whole area. Still others the traverses across trails that have been there for 5 years is just retarded. I have room for any MTBer who respects the trails even if they do not like the line. DHing, bmxing all in its place. That is not where someone else did the heavy lifting to get a sweet trail in place!!
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  19. #19
    Lord of the Chainrings
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    Hey Darkstar....What am I if I own both an XC and a DH bike? Confused, I guess?

    Taffy has done an awesome job out there!

    From what I hear, the "traverse" trails were installed to get to the trails on far side of Flightline quickly. If you don't like them, simply don't use them. I am not overly concerned about the quality of trails, just the "fun factor"!

    I don't think threatning to "kick someone's ass" for whatever reason is the answer out there. I respect all ability levels and all forms of riding; (Hell, I even own a road bike). I greet every rider I encounter out there and I encourage them to explore the area. I'm even friendly to "nature boy"!

    The Flightline users, including runners, hikers, geocachers, adjacent homeowners, etc, need to somehow ban together, maintain and save the remaining trails, before someone decides to install fences, signage, and police patrols to keep all users out. Perhaps IMBA needs to be brought in?

    Let's enjoy the area while we can before concrete covers the entire area; like Orange County!

    Can't we all just get along?
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  20. #20
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    Someone, not the jerk off who cut the tree branch, but Taffy built the trail. As far as any kind of ethics that gives him the right to decide where it is technical and where it is fast. Pump tracks have there place too. This is just not one of them. If jerk off with the saw wants to make his own trails then by all means have at! There are still several places to put a trail left if he gets off his lazy ass and does some work of his own instead of screwing with the work of others. That is the issue. Sweeping generalizations are generally true. Not uncommon to see guys out there smoking cigarettes and tossing gatorade containers now. People who ride up rarely have so little respect for nature. It goes like anything else if you earn it you are naturally inclinded to respect it. Anything just given to you is worthless. IE the smokign DHers cutting traverses across 4 or 5 good trails to avoid a climb. That just hurts us all. Flightline is starting to prove what I think most people think about us MTBers and that is we have no respect for nature. There was a time when a hard line could be drawn between the throttle twisters and the pedalers. No longer. It looks to me that before long we will have a lifeless sand dune park thanks to brainless work. Taffy does it right. Others are good efforts - upper squeeze is killer lower squeeze will be fun till a real rain take out the whole area. Still others the traverses across trails that have been there for 5 years is just retarded. I have room for any MTBer who respects the trails even if they do not like the line. DHing, bmxing all in its place. That is not where someone else did the heavy lifting to get a sweet trail in place!!

    So thatís all fine and good, but again if taffy built a trail on public land then what him and others may see as great will suck to someone else. There is no right or wrong, just opinion.

    And dude why even act like you can or will co-exist with gravity riders. You don't like them as a whole. You have made it clear that they are the reason all the trash and alterations to this trail are happening. If you want young riders to respect the trail don't start throwing out post about how they suck and they are killing MTBing. You can't respect what you don't understand and you'll never understand it if you are provoked into defending yourself.

    There is obviously a new generation of riders that weren't brought into the sport like many of us. Thatís not their fault, were should they learn about trail etiquette if the people who have it hate them? You earn respect not demand it.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudd
    Hey Darkstar....What am I if I own both an XC and a DH bike? Confused, I guess?

    Taffy has done an awesome job out there!

    From what I hear, the "traverse" trails were installed to get to the trails on far side of Flightline quickly. If you don't like them, simply don't use them. I am not overly concerned about the quality of trails, just the "fun factor"!

    I don't think threatning to "kick someone's ass" for whatever reason is the answer out there. I respect all ability levels and all forms of riding; (Hell, I even own a road bike). I greet every rider I encounter out there and I encourage them to explore the area. I'm even friendly to "nature boy"!

    The Flightline users, including runners, hikers, geocachers, adjacent homeowners, etc, need to somehow ban together, maintain and save the remaining trails, before someone decides to install fences, signage, and police patrols to keep all users out. Perhaps IMBA needs to be brought in?

    Let's enjoy the area while we can before concrete covers the entire area; like Orange County!

    Can't we all just get along?
    Everything in it's place. I love to go downhill and I love to throw on a full face and ride lifts. I have a dirt jump bike and love it. But I do not go bull dozing the hard work of others because it fits my riding style better. I see some retarded trail building out there but hey they built it I will ride it-as built. I will not change it. That is disrespectful to someone who created what they wanted from nothing not went and screwed up someone elses work (kick ass work at that).

    I would think it is common decency to leave a trail as I find it. And yes I would love to have IMBA involved. OR better yet a committe of people who ride out there AND build trails from the ground up. Not screw with what others have busted their asses to do.

    To the post under this one. Demanding respect? What kind of idiot needs to be reminded not to change the work of others? You said it your self traverses "to make it easier" thats respect for what others have done......I am a puss so I will cut this traverse to make it easier. Waaa. Pathetic. Dailey ranch, Lake hodges they can make it as easy as you want. Leave tech tech. Period. You guys want it all to be dual slalom and 4 up. WTF?
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  22. #22
    Why aren't you riding????
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar
    What kind of idiot needs to be reminded not to change the work of others? WTF?

    The kind of idiot that doesn't know any better!

    I'm done trying to be logical or dyplomatic with you dude. You are a bitter, elitist who obviously believes that anyone who doesn't "get it" like you is an idiot. You think because some 19 year old kid doesn't have your god given connection with nature that he is ruining your sport. You're worst for this sport than any limb cutting idiot. Elbows out right?

    E-threats, wow now there is a symbol of MTB unity. You're a joke.

  23. #23
    See you at the top.
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    Quote Originally Posted by offtheedge
    The kind of idiot that doesn't know any better!

    I'm done trying to be logical or dyplomatic with you dude. You are a bitter, elitist who obviously believes that anyone who doesn't "get it" like you is an idiot. You think because some 19 year old kid doesn't have your god given connection with nature that he is ruining your sport. You're worst for this sport than any limb cutting idiot. Elbows out right?

    E-threats, wow now there is a symbol of MTB unity. You're a joke.
    I am bad for the sport? Ask the equestrians, hikers and property owners......they are the ones who close us out. What they want to see go away. Bet you it is the dwnhill speedsters who cut any part of the trail that does not suit them. That is bad for the the sport.

    For that matter the start of this post is by the person who built the trail. The guy who did the hard work and made a sick piece of 1 track that most love. What logic is there for me to love the brother humper who decided it did not fit his needs? Logic how about a little common sense?

    BTW dude relax and reread the post your alittle out there on the reply. I find someone moding the trail and I will ask them nice to stop then I'll kick their ass.

    Hey BTW Mudd had the best attitude about it except for thinking building traverses is acceptable.
    Last edited by Darkstar; 05-09-2006 at 03:48 PM.
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  24. #24
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    Regarding Flightline alterations

    One big giant THANK YOU for the major work done out there. I am blown away at the amount of work you put in. I can really apprieciate just how much work went into it when I hike or run the trails. I love the challenges and look forward to the rides out there.

    Cleaning the 2nd trail up to the parking lot is a *****, but do-able. So hard it stokes you out for hours afterwards. Give the idiot who cut the branch the benefit of the doubt, maybe he thought he was helping? I myself thought about doing something about the ROOTS over above the creek, but didn't, thinking maybe who built these trails wanted it that way. Happy to see the narrow board you added (still gotta be on, it's not an automatic for most riders).

    Love the new trail! Thirty F-ING six foot bridge, ARE YOU KIDDING ME, Hell of a job! Watch hitting it with a moist front tire, 5'-6' fall into poison oak might not be fun (but that's what makes it exciting, heh).

    I've been ridding a long time, been on alot of epic rides (including several in Moab) and this place ROCKS! Keep up the good work and let us know what you need help with, CASH, CHICKEN WIRE, WOMEN, whatever lets us know...

  25. #25
    Lord of the Chainrings
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    I agree.....This bridge ROCKS!
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    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

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