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  1. #1
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    DFG Citations at Calavera?

    Got a text today that said Fish & Game is writing $475 citations at Calavera. I'm trying to VERIFY that this is actually occurring. I know all about the fencing (that has been cut already) but to the best of my knowledge, no signs have yet to be posted. Did that change this week?

    I'm going to miss riding the back side at Calavera but it's not worth $475...or even $50 for the privilege. I guess I'll be spending more time at Hodges and Daley Ranch!! Even better, it will keep me going on longer trips to see whats out there...Moab, Park City and Mammoth on the agenda for 2012. May try to squeeze in Fruita once the kids are off to college.

  2. #2
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    There is no signage and the fence are
    incomplete. No way cites would stand
    up in court.

    Clyde

  3. #3
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    I agree for the most part but there are judges that would not...and it definitely wouldn't stop F&G from writing them. So you still miss a day of work to challenge the citation. Depending on your employer, you may lose even if you win...

  4. #4
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    I think it's gonna get ugly out there. Once
    the signs go up and they start patrolling.
    They've fenced it off before. After time and
    money run out, it will be our's again.

    Clyde

  5. #5
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    whats the story? where is calavera? dfg seems to be getting loaded with work closing all kinds of areas and watching over them. need i mention fishing waters?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    I think it's gonna get ugly out there. Once
    the signs go up and they start patrolling.
    They've fenced it off before. After time and
    money run out, it will be our's again.

    Clyde
    They haven't issued citations before. Citations pay for a lot of patrol hours.

    I'd thank the people that built the unsustainable trails for bringing this attention, but I don't think they come here.

  7. #7
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouster View Post
    They haven't issued citations before. Citations pay for a lot of patrol hours.

    I'd thank the people that built the unsustainable trails for bringing this attention, but I don't think they come here.
    I knew as soon as that horribly designed drop trail with the bridge gap went in it was over. Whoever built that trail you were the straw. We could have flown under the radar for years more with fun flowy single track. Why can't people just recognize when enough is enough.

    I should have removed them myself. Shame on me.
    Don't be the 13th inch. Keep single track single!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    I knew as soon as that horribly designed drop trail with the bridge gap went in it was over. Whoever built that trail you were the straw. We could have flown under the radar for years more with fun flowy single track. Why can't people just recognize when enough is enough.

    I should have removed them myself. Shame on me.
    Same here. Maybe the SDMBA or other group can organize a work party to remove some of these and work with the DFG. I'll pitch in.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    I knew as soon as that horribly designed drop trail with the bridge gap went in it was over. Whoever built that trail you were the straw. We could have flown under the radar for years more with fun flowy single track. Why can't people just recognize when enough is enough.

    I should have removed them myself. Shame on me.
    I know, thats the big problem for me. now that all those stupid horribly built trails are up theres's way too much traffic from people who have no idea how to ride. I ride up there at least twice a week and this is the most crowded I've ever seen it. People are widening trails, creating giant ruts and cutting switch backs. On top of all this all the new jumps and ladder drops went in it started to get way too much attention. It was ok how it was and now people are starting to over build it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jouster View Post
    I'd thank the people that built the unsustainable trails for bringing this attention, but I don't think they come here.

    I will second that. Always the few ruining it for the many.......
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

  11. #11
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    got what you wished for

    for some years i have watched the actual owners of the property try their best to protect the first inhabitants of lake calavera (before we all showed up) have a fair shake, a slight chance to survive. by that i mean the plants and animals.

    it only seems fair to give them some space??

    in response, i've seen some really hardcore bikers tearing out native vegetation, building trails all over calavera, seemingly intent on proving that THEY are the best trailbuilders, like "stupidest criminals" posting pictures and videos to prove their manhood.....their mastery of THEIR turf???

    what sickness. what narcissism. what juvenile behavior. now you got what you wished for.......the attention of the owners.????

    GO BUY YOUR OWN PROPERTY. build some great jumps and trails on it. leave the little space we have left around here in san diego county to the professionals hired by the owners. you can volunteer with the SDMBA or the city or county to work within the system. is that so tough?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Got a text today that said Fish & Game is writing $475 citations at Calavera. I'm trying to VERIFY that this is actually occurring. I know all about the fencing (that has been cut already) but to the best of my knowledge, no signs have yet to be posted. Did that change this week?

    I'm going to miss riding the back side at Calavera but it's not worth $475...or even $50 for the privilege. I guess I'll be spending more time at Hodges and Daley Ranch!! Even better, it will keep me going on longer trips to see whats out there...Moab, Park City and Mammoth on the agenda for 2012. May try to squeeze in Fruita once the kids are off to college.
    I hear you. We bought a house in Durango and live out there 4 months a year. Not only are there many more trails, but reponsible use and respect.

  13. #13
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    Jouster....what part of Durango? I'm there every summer for 7-10 days. My in-laws have 40 acres in the Saul's Creek area of Bayfield. Have been riding dirt bikes down his driveway and into the Natl Forest for years (legally). Mtn Biking has taken over with the kids in college and we sold all the dirt bikes. I rode up at Purgatory and did the Hermosa Creek Trail this past summer...gonna get up near Silverton and work my way down next time we're there.

  14. #14
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    K2,

    We're in Falls Creek, near Durango. I can ride to the Hermosa Creek trailhead from my house. Send me a message with contact info and we'll talk about some rides including Molas to Silverton, which is amazing.

  15. #15
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    I've been riding out there everyday for the past few weeks and have seen more people and more fences. I have only seen workers out there, and never any FG people, but that doesn't mean that they have not been out there. Some of the trails were really fun, and I think its more than one set of builders out there. A few trails are nice and flowy and others are choppy and pretty invasive of the flora.

    If we learned anything from the loss of flightline I would have thought that it was "work with the landowners" not against them.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsbucky View Post
    If we learned anything from the loss of flightline I would have thought that it was "work with the landowners" not against them.

    The problem here is the kids making trails in Calavera 1> don't read these forums, 2> have no idea what Flightline was because they are just now getting into High School, and 3> have ignorant parents who do not teach them to respect the land, laws and seem to not have any idea what they are doing when they leave the house with a shovel and their friends.

    Granted I am sure there are some adults participating in the illegal building of new trails, but every time I run across them they are young teenagers.

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  17. #17
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    SDMBA Response

    SDMBA has had a number of recent inquiries about the new fencing at Calavera. Here is what we know and what we are doing.

    The City of Carlsbad and Department of Fish and Game applied for and were awarded a SANDAG grant to place fencing on the city owned Lake Calavera Preserve and the DFG owned Carlsbad Highlands Ecological Reserve. The grant process was approved in 2009, but the construction bid did not go out until May of 2011. The fencing is being placed per a fencing plan that was not presented to, reviewed by or approved by the public, SDMBA or other organizations (Preserve Calavera).

    Mountain biking is allowed within Lake Calavera Preserve as shown on the City of Carlsbad trail map. Mountain biking is not permitted on Carlsbad Highlands Ecological Reserve and mountain bikers found within the area can be issued tickets. SDMBA has received first hand accounts of trail users being ticketed on the afternoon of Sunday December 4th. Tickets are in excess of $400.

    SDMBA members are attempting to establish communication with the DFG reserve manager to discuss the recent fencing and the possibility of mountain bike access to the Reserve. We will provide updates if and when the talks progress.

  18. #18
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    If there's a way of finding the grant/project, it would be interesting to find out if they have proper CEQA approval as there's an aesthetic component to the construction that must be met, certainly this fencing does violate a,b, & c,. Take some pics and send in to SANDAG. The final MHCP allows for the establishment of fencing, but this does not seem to be the kind they are talking about and I don't think there's a blanket provision for CEQA.

    Closest thing I found on Sandag

    SANDAG :: PROJECTS :: San Diego's Regional Planning Agency

    I. AESTHETICS: Would the project:

    a) Have a substantial adverse effect on a scenic vista

    b) Substantially damage scenic resources, including, but not limited to, trees, rock outcroppings, and historic buildings within a state scenic highway

    c) Substantially degrade the existing visual character or quality of the site and its surroundings?

    d) Create a new source of substantial light or glare which would adversely affect day or nighttime views in the area?

    Last edited by socal_jack; 12-08-2011 at 09:24 AM.

  19. #19
    ronbo613
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    Rode there for more than 20 years.

    Too many people, not enough space. In Carlsbad, money/land developers/city government always win.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ford power View Post
    I know, thats the big problem for me. now that all those stupid horribly built trails are up theres's way too much traffic from people who have no idea how to ride. I ride up there at least twice a week and this is the most crowded I've ever seen it. People are widening trails, creating giant ruts and cutting switch backs. On top of all this all the new jumps and ladder drops went in it started to get way too much attention. It was ok how it was and now people are starting to over build it.
    The fundamental problem is that these trails may start with the best intentions: "we're experienced riders and know how to build and ride correctly", but since it's not land they own, they have no way to police who rides there and how its used. The trails then become an attraction for those who misuse and overbuild them. The owners then wake up and shut things down.

    Same pattern occurred at Flight Line. I rode there, quietly, for 10 years on the very few trails that existed. Then, in the mid-2000's all the trail builders came through and the number or trails and riders skyrocketed. There were a few instances where riders were injured badly enough to be life-flighted out of there...one fell off a rickety bridge and impaled himself on a manzanita tree! Carlsbad came in a shut it down.

    The bottom-line is that the only way to keep using trails is to use them quietly. People shouldn't build trails on land they don't own. As someone else mentioned here, that's a lesson that should have come from mom and dad.

    But all the local spots are now either off limits or too lame to ride. It's the price for living in near the beach in SoCal.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdmoondogg View Post
    Mountain biking is allowed within Lake Calavera Preserve as shown on the City of Carlsbad trail map. Mountain biking is not permitted on Carlsbad Highlands Ecological Reserve and mountain bikers found within the area can be issued tickets.
    Can hikers be ticketed as well? That approved "trail map" does not even include the Calavera Peak, nor the trail known to many as "The Spine". SDMBA worked very closely with F&G to work on this trail a few years ago, it would be a shame to get a ticket riding on a trail I personally helped F&G fix to be better for erosion control. It makes me feel used, accept our time and muscle and then kick us out....

    I would really like to know if any Hikers have been ticketed outside of the boundaries on that map, There are tons of people who hike to the summit of the peak everyday. I love to take my dog out there and Hike many of the trails that I enjoy biking on.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Can hikers be ticketed as well? That approved "trail map" does not even include the Calavera Peak, nor the trail known to many as "The Spine". SDMBA worked very closely with F&G to work on this trail a few years ago, it would be a shame to get a ticket riding on a trail I personally helped F&G fix to be better for erosion control. It makes me feel used, accept our time and muscle and then kick us out....

    I would really like to know if any Hikers have been ticketed outside of the boundaries on that map, There are tons of people who hike to the summit of the peak everyday. I love to take my dog out there and Hike many of the trails that I enjoy biking on.
    I doubt it. For years, signs have gone up temporarily on the F&G area trails that allowed hikers, but prohibited bikers (that's why they were temporary). We're planning to hike there tonight. I'll let you know if we are cited.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo613 View Post
    Rode there for more than 20 years.

    Too many people, not enough space. In Carlsbad, money/land developers/city government always win.
    Great pictures! We bought our house in the 90's so I could mountain bike to work (near Palomar Airport) from almost our backyard ... 95% on dirt. Amazing wildlife along the way.

    Your right though. Too many people. That wildlife is long gone.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jouster View Post
    I doubt it. For years, signs have gone up temporarily on the F&G area trails that allowed hikers, but prohibited bikers (that's why they were temporary). We're planning to hike there tonight. I'll let you know if we are cited.
    I think I may venture out there this evening myself.
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  25. #25
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    In the late 90s I used to 4x4 from where I worked off of La Place Ct to Supergo thru Calaveras for a shortcut, that shot from the top of the quarry reminded me of that, no houses and dirt road in the background.

    After the last real rain a few weeks ago, I saw several deer prints in the back 40, it's been several years since I've seen deer or prints at Calaveras.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jouster View Post
    Great pictures! We bought our house in the 90's so I could mountain bike to work (near Palomar Airport) from almost our backyard ... 95% on dirt. Amazing wildlife along the way.

    Your right though. Too many people. That wildlife is long gone.
    Last edited by socal_jack; 12-08-2011 at 05:29 PM.

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