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  1. #1
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    Del Mar Mesa...RIP

    Just found this on STR...
    Well all, we knew this day was coming and here it is…Pardee will begin construction of the Shaw Lorenz development on Del Mar Mesa next week. They will start at the western most end of the development at the end of Carmel Mountain Rd and work east. However the entire mesa will be closed for the duration of the project. All the single tracks known as “the intestines” will be a memory beginning Monday, April 14. I have worked out a plan with the developer to maintain access to Cobbles from Del Vino road. We are still looking at logistics, but unfortunately we may loose access to “Side hill” from the top during construction, so that makes it obsolete from the bottom, until the construction is complete. It is very likely that the Shaw Valley Trail will also be cut off at the south end because they are building an access road for all the equipment which involves a 10 foot high berm. Signs will be going up at strategic locations explaining the closure (i.e. at the ball fields, fishhead trail, Del Vino, and the end of Carmel Mountain Rd ).

    I am meeting with Pardee and construction staff tomorrow morning to discuss some options to try to keep these trails open, I might not be able to, but I will do my best.

    The development has a trail going around the outside of it as part of the community plan, but we will have to wait, what could be several years, before it is complete.

    Please pass this information on to everyone you know. It is imperative that all users obey the No Trespassing signs and trail closures for their own safety. Also, it will help build a cooperative spirit among all of us and developers. DO NOT START CREATING NEW TRAILS BECAUSE THESE ARE GONE, THAT WILL NOT HELP ANYONE. STAY ON EXISTING TRAILS AND OBEY ALL SIGNS. And most of all have fun. If you have question, please feel free to call me.

    Gina Washington
    Senior Park Ranger
    City of San Diego , Open Space Division

    Maybe we should ride the Mesa one more time this Sunday. (I'll be wearing black...)

  2. #2
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    Is the "Side Hill" the dowhill that goes by the lake?

  3. #3
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    No, "Sidehill" is the singletrack that goes north/south from the canyon rim over by the top of Shaw Valley Trail (end of existing Carmel Mtn Rd) and down to the north trail singletrack, west of Sycamore Crossing.

    The trail you're thinking of is The ****s or "Duck Pond Trail" and is not "recognized" in the trails system. It's an extension of the SDG&E easement for the adjacent power lines.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    No, "Sidehill" is the singletrack that goes north/south from the canyon rim over by the top of Shaw Valley Trail (end of existing Carmel Mtn Rd) and down to the north trail singletrack, west of Sycamore Crossing.
    Still not completely picturing this. Is this a connector from Timber Brook Ln. down to the canyon? Not Waimea, right? I think that connects to Wagon Wheel.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdball
    Still not completely picturing this. Is this a connector from Timber Brook Ln. down to the canyon? Not Waimea, right? I think that connects to Wagon Wheel.
    Well, technically, that would be Gablewood Way, but yes. If you look at the Map you can see three trails coming south off the top of the mesa. The most westerly isn't really used anymore, the middle one splits and if you use the easterly fork, it's called Sidehill. The westerly fork is overgrown and no longer used/closed. The easterly of the three trails is a closed trail, although used.

  6. #6
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    Mt. Bike Bill, if you get the immediate jones to fire up the helmet-mounted
    IMAX, now would be a great time to memorialize what little we have up there.

    Help us in our hour of need, Obi Wan Kenobe.

  7. #7
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    Took this on 1/31, so they've been working Gablewood for a while now.


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    Mt. Bike Bill, if you get the immediate jones to fire up the helmet-mounted
    IMAX, now would be a great time to memorialize what little we have up there.

    Help us in our hour of need, Obi Wan Kenobe.
    Dude I'm still crying over Flightline footage

  9. #9
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    Eric,

    Does this effectively mean that there is no way to go from the Sh!ts/Duck Pond to the top of SideHill/Carmel Mountain Road any longer?

    This also means that the only way to get to the Western area of the Del Mar Mesa is to actually go up Waimea which is NEVER a good idea.

    Michael

  10. #10
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    Please Contact Me

    Quote Originally Posted by ASSASSIN
    Just found this on STR...
    Well all, we knew this day was coming and here it is…Pardee will begin construction of the Shaw Lorenz development on Del Mar Mesa next week. They will start at the western most end of the development at the end of Carmel Mountain Rd and work east. However the entire mesa will be closed for the duration of the project. All the single tracks known as “the intestines” will be a memory beginning Monday, April 14. I have worked out a plan with the developer to maintain access to Cobbles from Del Vino road. We are still looking at logistics, but unfortunately we may loose access to “Side hill” from the top during construction, so that makes it obsolete from the bottom, until the construction is complete. It is very likely that the Shaw Valley Trail will also be cut off at the south end because they are building an access road for all the equipment which involves a 10 foot high berm. Signs will be going up at strategic locations explaining the closure (i.e. at the ball fields, fishhead trail, Del Vino, and the end of Carmel Mountain Rd ).

    I am meeting with Pardee and construction staff tomorrow morning to discuss some options to try to keep these trails open, I might not be able to, but I will do my best.

    The development has a trail going around the outside of it as part of the community plan, but we will have to wait, what could be several years, before it is complete.

    Please pass this information on to everyone you know. It is imperative that all users obey the No Trespassing signs and trail closures for their own safety. Also, it will help build a cooperative spirit among all of us and developers. DO NOT START CREATING NEW TRAILS BECAUSE THESE ARE GONE, THAT WILL NOT HELP ANYONE. STAY ON EXISTING TRAILS AND OBEY ALL SIGNS. And most of all have fun. If you have question, please feel free to call me.

    Gina Washington
    Senior Park Ranger
    City of San Diego , Open Space Division

    Maybe we should ride the Mesa one more time this Sunday. (I'll be wearing black...)
    Assassin
    Please call me about who you are going to contact tomorrow. It would save me a lot of time tracking down the right person. Also having that "right" person come to the next SDMBA meeting next wednesday could be very instrumental in spreading the correct info and possibly we could work out some otions to keep trail systems connected while they scrape the rest of the open space clean. Having Pardee interface with an organization would be most helpful to them and we might get more bang for our buck too.
    I will keep checking this site and my pm box.

  11. #11
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    This is sad news. I remember back in the day when the Cantina had paper plate races
    up there and there were nothing but endless trails.
    No paper mache bikes allowed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    Eric,

    Does this effectively mean that there is no way to go from the Sh!ts/Duck Pond to the top of SideHill/Carmel Mountain Road any longer?

    This also means that the only way to get to the Western area of the Del Mar Mesa is to actually go up Waimea which is NEVER a good idea.

    Michael
    Short answer: yes.

    The area between the top of Cobblestone and the top of Sidehill, ie all the singletracks, 4 Corners, and the fire road will be within the fenced "enclosure". Ranger Washington is going to work tomorrow on some way to preserve access to the top of Sidehill, but I don't see this really getting us much to use unless you'd climb Sidehill, roll pavement and find what's left of Eucalyptus, descend that to N-10, then climb south to crossunder Carmel Mtn. Road and descend Little Waimea.

  13. #13
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    This is such a bummer. I had hoped that with the slow down in the housing market it would have slowed down the developers from starting new projects but I guess they are thinking by the time this is done the market will have turned around but still I know Pardee has a large backlog so it is a little strange.

  14. #14
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    I rode out there yesterday. I usually park at Timberbrook street. Enter at the white fenced-dead end road. Lots of trucks out there. Lots of flourescent wood sticks with orange tape and lots of orange spray paint on the Mesa-Intestine trails.
    Its all very sad. I have been riding that canyon and mesa for over 20years. In the old days, there were Cows in penasquitos and you would have to close the fence behind you so they wouldnt leave the park area. This was in the mid-late 1980's.(when many of the trails were called..Big Bean, Little Bean, Yahoo, Dougies Hill, Lucas's (side hill), Senior Dans, Pirates and so many other trails that are now GONE!
    I think the best place to start/park now is further west at the new Vons shopping area. (near Pardee's development Derby Hill) You can enter the canyon from the back of vons, near the fenced in Dog ****Park. From there you can drop into the "sort of secret singletrack" west of Waimea or for that matter just go down Waimea.
    Just so all of you know, there is a canyon North of all this...between the DM Mesa and the 56 fwy. There is a HUGE pond out there and lots of single track, if you look. These trails can also lead you to the bottom of the "tunnels". You can also ride the large rollers atop the hills along the 56.
    There used to be a great single track down the backside of Black Mountain. Goes directly on the back side and it was encapsilated with trees. Havent been there in a long time but, if it hasnt been travelled in a while, we should expose this and let it get ridden in hopes to develop a trail system back there as there is still lots of land and potential there.
    Again, its all very sad, it sucks. San Diego used to be affordable, empty beaches and lots of good riding. Not much left.
    Now, no trails, crowded surf, expensive and very few people speak english any more. BUMMER!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by whattheheck
    I rode out there yesterday......big snip....
    Now, no trails, crowded surf, expensive and very few people speak english any more. BUMMER!

    Si!

    Carlos

  16. #16
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    ride with your green card please!

  17. #17
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    Just FYI... from Ranger Washington

    I just met with Pardee and the grading contractor this morning and we have good news.



    “Side Hill” will remain open for the duration of the project. Access will be provided by going to the end of Carmel Mountain Road, past the construction trailer office where a trail will be delineated with orange fence and signs behind the newest construction site up to the power line tower, and follow the newly installed signs to “Side Hill”.



    Cobbles/Queens will remain open with a slight variation at the entrance/exit onto Del Vino; ALL USERS will have to enter from the east side of Del Vino on the d.g. path through the wooden bollards.



    Shaw Valley Trail will be OPEN WEEKENDS ONLY (Saturday and Sunday). This is a little more difficult to explain, but once all the work is done and signs are in it should be easy to follow. The grading contractor will be installing a road from the end of Carmel Mountain Rd. winding east down into the valley and then back up to the mesa, this would obviously cause an impassable berm; however they will install a ramp on the north side of the berm from the trail that will be open on weekends for equestrians and hikers to get up to the newly constructed road, turn west toward Carmel Mountain Rd and link onto the new trail access to “Side Hill”. This will all be signed and fenced.



    THERE WILL BE NO ACCESS TO THE CENTER OF THE MESA FROM ANY OF THE TRAILS FOR THE DURATION OF THE PROJECT. DO NOT VANDALIZE/PASS THE ORANGE FENCE INTO THE CONSTRUCTION ZONE FOR YOUR SAFETY!!! Some of the orange fence will be protecting vernal pools that are being restored, so it is very important that you STAY OUT.



    The developer assured me that trails are a high priority, they want to get the grading done and the new trails in as soon as possible. The new trail will go along the rim of the canyon and then a bit through the neighborhood past and through the vernal pool sites that are being preserved. It won’t be the winding ups and downs that are there now, but it will be a nice link between Cobbles and Side Hill/Shaw Valley.



    Now I know there is concern that even though Cobbles and Side Hill are open, having no way to connect by way of the mesa seemingly doesn’t do any good unless you live in the neighborhood. However, I have to disagree with that view. Once you pop out of Cobbles, go out to Del Vino and then down Del Mar Mesa Rd to the west (there are multi use trails along the road, or just ride the road) until you get to Carmel Country Rd go south up the hill to Carmel Mountain Rd and turn east to the end where you can access Side Hill. I know it’s not Open Space, but you’ll get a good work out and it is a great loop. Also, you can access the Neighborhood 10 trails and “Eucalyptus” from Carmel Country Road. It will be something new…



    I really want to emphasize again how important it is to not build/cut any new trails through the open space areas. This is a transition we all have to deal with, so let’s make it as easy and uneventful as possible.



    Please pass this email on to everyone you know that uses the Del Mar Mesa trails so they won’t be caught off guard Monday morning when they go out for their daily run. Thanks, BE SAFE AND HAVE FUN.



    Gina Washington

    Senior Park Ranger

    City of San Diego, Open Space Division

    858.538.8066 (PH)

    858.536.8334 (FAX)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Dolor
    We need to stay focused on how to do something, anything, to preserve for us what we all came to think of as a "Commonwealth" of public trails, which, we are finding out, is mostly an illusion.

    About as solid as the "treaties" signed between the native american nations and the U.S., back in the day.

    What are WE going to do about it?
    Playing devils advocate here... Since Pardee owns the land, we have been using it without the land owners authorization. Just because they don't have signs up (we'd take them down anyway) doesn't mean that its not private property and that we're not trespassing.

    We should blame ourselves for allowing a for profit corporation build homes for the rich. From what I hear, they're going to build > $2M homes there.

  19. #19
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    DMM trails blocked already

    If you go to do the DMM trails (for one last time) be prepared for trail access interuptions on the Intestines NOW.

    As of mid-day Friday the 11th there was already orange fencing blocking the DMM trails in certain places, and other fences are going up fast. We did a short hike a bike around one set, and hopped over another set (with permission) to gain access to Sidehill. Most of these fences are being put in to protect "Vernal areas" during grading, etc. and are rather random in placement on the Mesa.

    It is the time to start "working" on the powers that be to make the proposed connecting trails more creative than the mundane bridle path that goes from the top of the powerline climb to the ****s for example.

    As Taffy15 and others have said at SDMBA, be proactive in defining the meaning of "trail" with Pardee and the land managers to make the best of what will be left, because that path off of the powerlines and the Shaw Valley Trail are lame examples of what we would define as "trail".

  20. #20
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    Nice day to ride

    Yes indeed, lots of survey crews out there today. All pleasant and busy setting up markers, There is a orange barrier fence (a mini "Christo" piece) that runs right over the trail. If you go this weekend to take a "final ride" in the trails, just pick your bike up and over. Do not destroy or move any of the work in progress. It was truly a pleasure to be able to ride these trails over the past 18 years of mtbiking. Actually did noy get on the mesa until about 10 years ago to discover the fine maze of trails. So, that period is over. A few pics from today. I found the beauty and hope you can too. There is still plenty of riding to be had in the valley, just not the same without the DM single tracks........ oh well!

    Don't be too bummed out, get on over to Spring-Oak-Sycamore (while we still have what we got....... www.fanita.com)

    Cheers!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    That's such a bummer. When I first moved out here in 1996 I stayed at my friends house on Shaw Ridge Road before it was developed.

    We would camp back there, go riding and explore new trails, it was heaven. Surf in the morning, ride in the afternoon, shape surfboards during the day. It was paradise. Sad to see alot of the open space and trails gone. It was my first experience living in San Diego.

    I was bummed when it was first starting to be developed. Paradise lost.

  22. #22
    "Ride Lots" - Eddie Mercx
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    Quote Originally Posted by whattheheck
    ride with your green card please!
    This comment is funny on many levels.

    YR

  23. #23
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    Build build build, that's the American way

  24. #24
    CEB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    This comment is funny on many levels.

    YR
    ...........yes it is! Both Bear and I had our green cards at ready!

    Yeahhhhhhhh
    Last edited by CEB; 04-11-2008 at 09:26 PM.

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    Sounds like Ranger Washington is a good person to have on our side. Haven't met her but I'll keep an eye out to say thank you.

  26. #26
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    I posted a few pics on STR, but here's one that drives the point home.

    IMG00103sm.jpg

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by el_d00der1n0
    I posted a few pics on STR, but here's one that drives the point home.

    IMG00103sm.jpg
    That fence is both kind of sad and pathetic. I'm guessing it is temproary until they can put up a better one. It sure seems like crossing a trail that gets as much traffic as that one obviously did that there ought to be an explanatory sign at that point.

    What's "STR"?

  28. #28
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    There are a couple of additional fences further along that section of trail, too. Looks they're jumping the gun on the Monday target date.

    Have fun out there guys, and try not to but heads with the workers - they're a bit gruff if you come anywhere near the fences.

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    April 26th

    Looks like the 26th is the trail day for Penasquitos. Perfect timing for getting the largest work party together ever and show what we are capabale of. It is always a good time to work next to the rangers and let them know we need a better designed trail system and we might as well think of making some steps in that direction sooner than later. As the population matures on all sides of the preserve creating a greater and greater impact on the land the time to anticipate the need for less impactful singletrack built with the trail science available to us is now.
    We don't need more we need more intelligent trails. We don't need service roads for the sewer lines built in a low lying flood plain as trails . We need contour trails that shed water easiliy and dry quickly. We need flowing trails with grade reversals and nicks and all the attributes a great trail posesses that keeps it narrow with less impact to it's surroundings year after year.
    Lets make this next trail day a land mark event.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    No, "Sidehill" is the singletrack that goes north/south from the canyon rim over by the top of Shaw Valley Trail (end of existing Carmel Mtn Rd) and down to the north trail singletrack, west of Sycamore Crossing.
    Hey EB,

    Has there ever been any talk at all about the possibility of creating a trail from the top of Sidehil West to the top of Waimea?

    The trail could be cut into the hillside south of the houses off of Carmel Mountain Road. I have to believe that before the homes were built, there was a trail that connected the two areas but now the only way to actually get to each part of the park is to exit the park, ride pavement, and then reenter the park. seems kind of silly.

    If such a trail were to be created, at least then there'd be a dirt loop connecting the top of Sidehill to other parts of the park.

    YR

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    What's "STR"?
    Socal Trail Riders dot org

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    Idea! Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by el_d00der1n0
    Socal Trail Riders dot org
    Thanks! Good to learn about another resource on the web.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by taffy15
    Looks like the 26th is the trail day for Penasquitos. Perfect timing for getting the largest work party together ever and show what we are capabale of. It is always a good time to work next to the rangers and let them know we need a better designed trail system and we might as well think of making some steps in that direction sooner than later. As the population matures on all sides of the preserve creating a greater and greater impact on the land the time to anticipate the need for less impactful singletrack built with the trail science available to us is now.
    We don't need more we need more intelligent trails. We don't need service roads for the sewer lines built in a low lying flood plain as trails . We need contour trails that shed water easiliy and dry quickly. We need flowing trails with grade reversals and nicks and all the attributes a great trail posesses that keeps it narrow with less impact to it's surroundings year after year.
    Lets make this next trail day a land mark event.
    Has anyone heard anymore about the trailwork on the 26th? I e-mailed Mike last week but I also noticed time and location is still TBA on the SDMBA calendar.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Dolor
    Cooperative effort WITH the Majority user group of the Preserve is the only truly rational approach to this situation.
    Can you clarify/define this situation for me please? Being new here, I'm not privy to the history regarding these issues. Are we talking about City owned land?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    Has there ever been any talk at all about the possibility of creating a trail from the top of Sidehil West to the top of Waimea?...If such a trail were to be created, at least then there'd be a dirt loop connecting the top of Sidehill to other parts of the park.
    Not any serious discussion. It's obviously a desirable route, and I know you mean "not counting the link that was bulldozed in the '90s". The City is very sketch about "new trails" since they require CEQA processing and funding for that. Of course, new trails do occur, ie Shaw Valley Equestrian Trail and Camino Ruiz Park Trail.

    Until pretty much "now", we haven't really had the need, but I think the ideas you, Taffy and others have about such "rim trails" are worth revisitation in terms of a long-range plan for the Preserve. I'd expect certain elements to immediately react with a "no", but there may be a legit argument that a rim trail system to connect dots around the LPCP and to enable trail users to move about the preserve while above the flood plain.

  36. #36
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    Keep the 26th Insight

    Ray
    You didn't do well in Political Correctness 101 did you? Your point is well taken and has plenty of analogy in history. Now the task is to take your passion and turn PQ into a showcase.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    The City is very sketch about "new trails" since they require CEQA processing and funding for that.
    I hear ya, it just seems funny how difficult it is to carve a new trail a hundred feet from an area that required giving bulldozers free reign to develop. I mean, can the area in question be any more sensitive than the acres and acres that are now new homes? gotta love the gov't!

    let's see what we can do. you raised an excellent point about keeping people out of the flood plain.

    Does Eucalyptus go through now? where can you find it from the top? Or, should I just suck it up and take the pavement from the top of cobbles over to the bottom of Eucalyptus and find it my own damn self? :-)

    Michael

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    I hear ya, it just seems funny how difficult it is to carve a new trail a hundred feet from an area that required giving bulldozers free reign to develop. ...
    Does Eucalyptus go through now? where can you find it from the top?
    Yeah, and the project above the ridge could have included the rim trail...if the City had included that in the project. Now, they DID include a trail, it's just the DG type.

    Eucalyptus, or a segment of it, is still there and open. To hit it, you have to ride pavement through the neighborhood that the top part was bulldozed for, and then there's a trail entry between two homes. Before the homes were built, the developer caused some flood damage/mass erosion to the trail, but was never required to fix/fund the repair, so it's up the Rangers. They have been working elsewhere, so you'll find a gnarly washout that's still pretty different than the trail section that was there. Eucalyptus is Human Powered Only --- no pack animals or motorcycles. Dare ya to find the signs, though.

    Once you're at the bottom of Eucalyptus, you can hang a set of lefts and head south up the N-10 trail to the steps/water bars just like always and work your way to Little Waimea.

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    so, they want us to attend a meeting...what a joke.
    F-them all. Just keep riding at will. What are they gonna do... shoot us? When Home Builders ie:Pardee, KBhomes, TOL Brothers, keep scraping land, losing 50% of share holder values and CEO's walking away with millions upon millions while their companies go bankrupt, I then say F-you all. And furthermore companies like Bear Strerns, Enron etc...go belly while the hard working little guys life savings go to zero, while the Executives walk away with riches upon riches, ****ing over the little guys...again, man, lets get some perspective....
    All we want to do is ride bikes on some open land. ****em I say.
    When Iraq continues to export gas which we pay 4.00gallon but we pump billions of taxpayers hard earned money in reconstruction money and re-uild their f-uped nation.
    When here in the USA they are closing schools and building jails.
    What...they want us to attend a meeting to say....ah we will be good. FU%K UM.
    I dont care how politically correct you want to be. How accomodating and courteous we have to continue to be....****-um I say. Ride Ride Ride, the hell out of the land. Granted I respect the workers just doing their job. I will respect the fences etc...but the Park and surrounding areas. Come'on! ITS SIMPLE....
    Just stay on the designated trails, ride with care, stop for the horses and ring you bell for the hikers. Keep you dogs on leash and dont litter.
    ITS ALL VERY SIMPLE...keep the politics out. Ride RIDE RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Go patrol the friggen border. LET ME RIDE...

  40. #40
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    You are right, you are right ,you are right, you are right , you are right

    Hey you are right , you are right , you are right. What can I say you are right , you are right , you are right, you are right. SINCE YOU ARE RIGHT YOU WILL BE A SHOW OF FORCE ON THE 26TH. Because you are right you are going to help us change things and your physical presence is required. Man with guys like you Ray Dolor and me around that is just as unstable a mix you could want and there are many many out there that are just like us. But what happens is we don't organize enough to become a force to be reckoned with. Individually we don't have enough power to make change. So we have to jump through some hoops. The first one is the 26th. You are right but if there are not enough people the 26th then what you said and hot air just blows balloons around.

  41. #41
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    ah man, I would love to make the meeting but I will be attending a real important meeting with regards to the Mt Soledad cross. Lots of good money and time in that debate too! (kidding of course).

  42. #42
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    I nominate "whattheheck" for Mayor of San Diego. Or President, for that matter. I've had it with this place.

  43. #43
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    I am new to the area and was wondering if anyone could create a map (Google or something) of the trails that we can ride. Or point me in a direction that I could find one.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by whattheheck
    so, they want us to attend a meeting...
    Ha! No, "they" don't want you to attend a meeting. "They" were stoked when dingbats like you kept your head down and filled yourselves with false bravado while "They" ****ed you sideways in terms of trails access for the last 15 years. "They" were freaking horrified when "We Mountainbikers" did show up at meetings and spoke up and demonstrated our committment to Our Open Space. "They" were horrified when We showed up en masse to protest Their attempts to stack the CAC with commercial equestrian interests strictly opposed to any access for bikes At All in Los Penasquitos, and They were horrified when We took action that reduced their overpowering lock on the committee that advises regarding access.

    "They", however, now includes some of We. Mike Maio, of the SDMBA, is a voting member of They (and now wears sweater vests, listens to light jazz and chuckles about you punk kids and your rock-n-roll music), as are Dean Kirby and I. Craig Bosworth, Greg Lambert, Andy Darragh, Minette Ozaki, Dan Greenstadt, Everett Neuman, John Holloway, Maggie Holloway, Jim Sullivan, Greg Bates, Guillermo Bejarano, Kirsten Bates, Gary Fox and others have spent hours on trail work, attending meetings when asked and organizing support that helped some of We become They to stave off the onslaught of anti-bike, anti-family, anti-access rules and discrimination while others were content to "ride what they want" and hope the folks listed above would wipe your ass for you.

    "We" don't want knuckleheads with poor reading comprehension to show up at meetings, so you're off the hook there. Some of We, who have been fighting this fight for a while, know that "They" of the CAC had no control or even input to the bulldozing of the Del Mar Mesa. None. Not even the family-hating, bike-baiting elitist bastards that would eagerly ban you and all those anyway like you from Los Penasquitos and every other dirt trail under the sun. None. So, showing up to gripe and chastise about the bulldozing of our singletracks, or to point out that the Ranger staff could Never Enforce all the stupid rules the wackos dream of? Not useful. Nobody ever asked you for that.

    If you've been paying attention over the last several years in Los Penasquitos, you know that we of the pro-environment/pro-family/pro-kids on bikes ilk managed to reverse the tide of restrictions on trail use for a while, and that we opened almost the entire north side of the preserve to full multiuse status before a backlash slowed things down to a stop. None of that would have occured had mountainbikers, trail runners and responsible equestrians showed up at meetings to support multiuse trails.

    So, now we're losing/lost the last set of mesa singletracks and some people are fired up to get active. That's a silver lining, right? The only downside I can see is that a lack of organization and to use the group structures established to advocate for bike or multiuse access simply results in time wasted and divided efforts (your opponents love that).

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    Ha! No, "they" don't want you to attend a meeting. "They" were stoked when dingbats like you kept your head down and filled yourselves with false bravado while "They" ****ed you sideways in terms of trails access for the last 15 years. "They" were freaking horrified when "We Mountainbikers" did show up at meetings and spoke up and demonstrated our committment to Our Open Space. "They" were horrified when We showed up en masse to protest Their attempts to stack the CAC with commercial equestrian interests strictly opposed to any access for bikes At All in Los Penasquitos, and They were horrified when We took action that reduced their overpowering lock on the committee that advises regarding access.

    "They", however, now includes some of We. Mike Maio, of the SDMBA, is a voting member of They (and now wears sweater vests, listens to light jazz and chuckles about you punk kids and your rock-n-roll music), as are Dean Kirby and I. Craig Bosworth, Greg Lambert, Andy Darragh, Minette Ozaki, Dan Greenstadt, Everett Neuman, John Holloway, Maggie Holloway, Jim Sullivan, Greg Bates, Guillermo Bejarano, Kirsten Bates, Gary Fox and others have spent hours on trail work, attending meetings when asked and organizing support that helped some of We become They to stave off the onslaught of anti-bike, anti-family, anti-access rules and discrimination while others were content to "ride what they want" and hope the folks listed above would wipe your ass for you.

    "We" don't want knuckleheads with poor reading comprehension to show up at meetings, so you're off the hook there. Some of We, who have been fighting this fight for a while, know that "They" of the CAC had no control or even input to the bulldozing of the Del Mar Mesa. None. Not even the family-hating, bike-baiting elitist bastards that would eagerly ban you and all those anyway like you from Los Penasquitos and every other dirt trail under the sun. None. So, showing up to gripe and chastise about the bulldozing of our singletracks, or to point out that the Ranger staff could Never Enforce all the stupid rules the wackos dream of? Not useful. Nobody ever asked you for that.

    If you've been paying attention over the last several years in Los Penasquitos, you know that we of the pro-environment/pro-family/pro-kids on bikes ilk managed to reverse the tide of restrictions on trail use for a while, and that we opened almost the entire north side of the preserve to full multiuse status before a backlash slowed things down to a stop. None of that would have occured had mountainbikers, trail runners and responsible equestrians showed up at meetings to support multiuse trails.

    So, now we're losing/lost the last set of mesa singletracks and some people are fired up to get active. That's a silver lining, right? The only downside I can see is that a lack of organization and to use the group structures established to advocate for bike or multiuse access simply results in time wasted and divided efforts (your opponents love that).
    So, attend meetings to help keep the multi-use trails multi-use trails. Got it.

  46. #46
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    @EBasil: I wish I had a thanks button over here. It's sad to say though that not even a meeting could have helped this situation.

    @whattheheck: boycott Pardee...



    Quote Originally Posted by theflinger
    I am new to the area and was wondering if anyone could create a map (Google or something) of the trails that we can ride. Or point me in a direction that I could find one.
    http://www.sandiego.gov/park-and-rec...itoscanyon.pdf

  47. #47
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    wtf?
    A man can't be angry, can't be frustrated, can't be pissed, can't vent his feelings without someone else giving him a "lesson"?

    Come'on brother! Then you have to step it one more notch and heckle my english skills!
    Arent you getting tired of taking the "higher ground". Aren't you tired of walking on egg-shells so people won't get pisssed at you?
    Trust me, I do appreciate all you have done in PQ. I have been riding there for 3 decades. Seriously...3 decades. Before front suspension! Your group has done a fantastic job in maintaining, building and increasing legal access. I do not deny that. And again, you guys rock. I respect all that you do.
    But please don't bag on me. I am not your problem!!!!!!!!
    Listen, the solution is simple. It comes down to common sense and three simple words..
    RESPECT-RESPECT-RESPECT.
    If everyone respected one another there would be no mix-use issues.
    Don't smoke near me.
    Keep your cig-butt in your pocket.
    Muzzle your f-ken barking dog.
    Leash your dog.
    Kill your pitbull before it kills (omg, he never did that before!)
    Pick up your dogs poo and carry out the lil blue baggie you stuck it in.
    If you ride a horse, carry a shovel. Shovel the poo off the middle of the trail so I don't have to stink up my garage/car from poo on my MtBike tires.
    Get a broom and shut-off that ****in leafblower.
    My promise to you....
    I promise...I will slow down when I see you. I will slow down on blind corners. I will not litter. I will ring my bell around corners. I will ring my bell when I come up behind you. I will stay on the designated trails. I will not cut trails.
    I will stop and let that horses pass thru. I will not skid on turns. I will not ride when muddy.
    I will respect you as long as you respect me.
    I will not bark in your face. I will walk my dog in public with a leash. I will not make lots of noise and disturb you. I will smoke in my car with the windows up (no i dont smoke). I will not $hit on the trails, but I will carry a shovel just in case. I will sweep my yard with a broom not use a noise-gas-poluting leaf blower.
    It really is that easy!
    MEETING OVER!
    (let me suffer with my issues and my poor grammer, just respect me)

  48. #48
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    Forget the Mesa

    I started riding here two years ago after moving from Vancouver (and the fable North Shore, and Whistler) to San Diego. I stumbled upon the Mesa and other trails after getting lost on a 4 hr. ride. I found piles of trash all over the place (especially by the eucalyptus grove), which broke my tree-hugging Canadian heart. People see desert landscape and think its worthless. Anyways, I got on the horn and got SDGE and the City to come out for a drive north of the gate on the $5 milIion/house Preserve and several months ago, it appears the trash got hauled out.

    There's still tons of trash around there and we need a concerted effort to get it hauled out. Some of it is on private land, and clean-up orders have been issued to the owners. I need to follow up with one of Scott Peter's reps. to make sure the rest is taken out too.

    This is the area that holds the greatest promise for future trails. The Tunnels are located in there, and I'm happy to see some one is applying some North Shore trail building skills with the use of ladders and drops (down into McConnigle? Canyon). This place has so much potential. I know it's sad to see any trail graded, but the Mesa wasn't exactly a great ride (rutted out sand and rocks with zero bermed corners. Let's focus on what we still have, and make it great.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadbike

    This is the area that holds the greatest promise for future trails. The Tunnels are located in there, and I'm happy to see some one is applying some North Shore trail building skills with the use of ladders and drops (down into McConnigle? Canyon). This place has so much potential. I know it's sad to see any trail graded, but the Mesa wasn't exactly a great ride (rutted out sand and rocks with zero bermed corners. Let's focus on what we still have, and make it great.
    Please nobody build anything in the Tunnels. It's not helping our cause.

    I think you're right: we should clean up all of that junk up there around Tunnels. That could help our cause.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadbike

    This is the area that holds the greatest promise for future trails. The Tunnels are located in there, and I'm happy to see some one is applying some North Shore trail building skills with the use of ladders and drops (down into McConnigle? Canyon). This place has so much potential. I know it's sad to see any trail graded, but the Mesa wasn't exactly a great ride (rutted out sand and rocks with zero bermed corners. Let's focus on what we still have, and make it great.
    Let's focus on what we still have? We only GOT the tunnels in the past 18 months. Before that, WE only HAD the Del Mar Mesa to connect from one end of the park to the other. it was only a few short years ago that the entire North side single track was OFF LIMITS to bikes because why would a biker want to ride it when they have the whole wide main canyon fireroad to ride on?

    Truth be told, the trails on the Del Mar Mesa AND the Tunnels are currently on PRIVATE PROPERTY anyway so we don't really have the tunnels, we're just borrowing them for the time being.

    as far as building stunts and such on the land, that's just going to get the trails closed and/or sanitized as this isn't Canada but is lawsuit happy California and the first time somebody gets hurt on a stunt and decides that it's not their lack of ability at fault but whoever built the stunt or whoever maintains the trail who should be held responsible. then, what?

    Build no stunts, they'll just get removed anyway.

    YR

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