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Curent wheel build recommendation San Diego

6K views 21 replies 17 participants last post by  mojoronnie 
#1 ·
Looking to have a Swiss 240/Derby wheel build done. Had a falling out with my current guy and its time to move on. Any solid recommendations would be appreciated. Cheers!
 
#6 ·
If you want the best go to Speed Dream/Dave Thomas. He is located in AZ and you can just ship back an forth. My experience is that he is better, faster and less expensive than anyone in SD. Call and have a discussion with him and you will understand why I am saying this after 5 minutes. For example he will explain that you can't do radial lacing on King hubs because it stretches the bearing seats too much. That is just one example of the details in his head that will be discussed. In addition he will also go through 2x vs 3x and talk about wheel stiffness vs use case/body weight/riding style etc. You will get a completely custom set of wheels based on your riding instead of some rims and hub you chose and a basic 3x lacing.

If you are absolutely dead set on having them built in SD go to Mike at North of the Border. Just be warned that it will be more expensive and take longer than Dave.

Dave's Wheels Speed Dream Custom Bicycle Wheels Hand built by Dave Thomas
 
#15 ·
^x2.

Dave builds some fantastic wheels. Quick too and even offers a crash replacement discount - or used to.

After many many rough miles one one of 3 wheelsets he built for me over the years, I needed to true up a front wheel. It had a CK ISO disc hub. I wasn't smart enough at the time to own and use a spoke tension gauge. As I was truing up the wheel, the flange on the front hub failed as in the spoke pulled part of the flange material away from the hub. I was within 5 years on the CK hub warranty (right at 4 years) and called them direct.

They said send it in to have a look. I did and about a week later I got a call from a CK tech who said it was my fault the hub failed because 1x lacing was used on the non disc side. I said, "Dave Thomas built these wheels." They said, "Oh. We will ship you a new hub right away."

I think this was before CK updated their hub literature to prohibit anything less than 2x lacing, but speaks well about the respect for Dave Thomas and his wheel building.

I've since taken a wheel building class and build my own now...but still have a great appreciation for Dave's skill and knowledge.
 
#7 ·
Salespunk,
Please explain "radial lacing". I had a set of wheels built with King hubs several years ago at Performance in Oceanside, still without issue. Just wondering how they are laced. I was about to suggest this place but I can't remember the mechanics name that built them.
 
#9 ·
As @ajdonner wrote below radial lacing is when the spokes do not cross each other. It is the stiffest possible way to build a wheel, but puts a tremendous amount of stress on the hubs and spoke heads. As a general rule of thumb the fewer spokes that are crossed the stiffer the build. There are more variables such as spoke gauge etc that all factor in.
 
#8 ·
Radial lacing is the spokes going straight from hub to rim without crossing another spoke. Pretty common on the front wheels of road bikes (for a slight weight savings); can't remember ever seeing a mtb wheel laced that way.

From Sheldon Brown
"Radial Spoking

Radial spoked (cross 0) wheels have the spokes going straight out from the hub. This pattern is suitable only for front wheels that don't use hub brakes. They are very cool-looking, and are often a good choice for the ultimate in performance, because they are slightly lighter and, in theory, may have a very slight ærodynamic edge.

There are two things to watch out for with radial wheels. Because the nipples point straight inward from the rim, they can turn more easily in most rims than when they are bent to a slight angle by a semi-tangent spoke pattern. This ease of turning increases the risk of their unscrewing themselves on the road. To prevent this, nipples on radial wheels should not be lubricated, and it is a good idea to use a spoke adhesive such as Wheelsmith Spoke Prep or one of the milder flavors of Loctite ® on them. (Or, if a rim does not have recessed spoke holes, the rim tape and air pressure in the inner tube will keep the spokes from turning -- at least with a high-pressure tire).

The other potential problem with radial wheels is that the spokes, trailing straight outward on the hub flange, can possibly rip the outer edge of the flange right off along the line of the spoke holes. This is most likely to happen with small-flange, 36 hole hubs, because there is less metal between the spoke holes. If a used hub is re-laced radially, the notches left by the old spokes can act as stress risers, further weakening the flange.

Many hub manufacturers specifically recommend against radial spoking for this reason, and will not honor warranties on hubs that have been spoked radially.

Some folks will say that no bicycle wheels should be radially spoked for this reason, so do this at your own risk. In my experience, it's generally OK with good-quality hubs that have forged shells.

[Note from John Allen: heed this! Back in 1980, unaware of these issues, I built a front wheel for my tandem with 40 radial spokes on a medium-flange, "boutique" hub with machined flanges. After a few months of use, the wheel mysteriously went slightly out of true, and I trued it. I might better have taken the loss of true as a red-flag warning. One day, I just happened to be sitting on the floor next to my tandem, glanced at the front hub and noticed a crack extending along the line between several spoke holes. I had been foolish, and I was very lucky. I rebuilt the wheel on a large-flange hub, using the same spokes in a semi-tangent pattern, and I have ridden that wheel for 30 years since without any problem. If you ever notice a radially-spoked front wheel -- or, actually, any front wheel -- mysteriously going slightly out of true, stop, get off the bicycle and call for a ride home or to a bike shop.]

If you want to take your chances and try a radial-spoked front wheel, I would advise avoiding using thick spokes and very high tension. Since front wheels are generally pretty trouble-free compared with rears, you don't need super-high tension on a front wheel that uses a reasonable number of spokes.

[Another note from John Allen: I don't recommend leaving spokes slacker than their optimum. If you use the thin spokes, you can raise them to their optimum tension without their putting undue stress on the hub.]

Bicycle folklore has it that radial-spoked wheels give a "harsh" ride, because the shorter spokes are less "stretchy" than the longer spokes used in semi-tangent wheels. This is hooey!

Drive wheels and wheels with hub brakes should never be radially spoked. Due to the near-perpendicular angle of the spoke to the hub's tangent, any torque applied at the hub of a radial-spoked wheel will result in a very great increase in spoke tension, almost certainly causing hub or spoke failure.

[Yet another note from John Allen: I have seen such a wheel. To protect the guilty, I will not say who built it. No, it wasn't Sheldon. A friend and I inspected the bike. He held the front brake and pushed down on a pedal with his foot. The spokes of the rear wheel changed angle noticeably, pinging as they rotated in the spoke holes of the hub, and ringing with rising musical pitch like an electric guitar when the player pulls up on the tremolo bar.]"
 
#10 ·
... can't remember ever seeing a mtb wheel laced that way.
Some rear wheels (e.g. Mavic Crossmax, maybe others) are built with a radial pattern on the drive side and 2x or 3x on the non-drive side. I think I read that the radial pattern allows for shallower dishing and tighter cassette-to-spoke clearance (both of which are desirable on the drive side), and the non-drive side with a tangential pattern takes care of the pedaling and braking torque (eliminates any hub twisting you'd get with full radial).
 
#19 · (Edited)
Over the years it has been hit or miss with me using various wheel builders. My last experiance was with a shop in Dana Point that was a nightmare. The shop owner raved about his guy blaw blaw blaw. Well he was screwed it up big time with spokes that were too long and tension too low. Ended up breaking nipples and could couldn't keep them true.

That was it for me and purchased the tools and learned how to build my own wheels. It is not like splitting atoms that some make it out to be.... just takes some minimal knowledge, patience and taking pride in your work.
 
#21 ·
Good call, I lived about 1/2 mile from them and stopped in when they first opened. They seemed pretty passionate about the industry and not a cookie cutter shop. I never had a chance to really deal with them having moved away from the area shortly after they opened. But a small shop that's passionate about the sport usually provides some top notch quality work. I remember them carrying some high end boutique brands and I'm glad to hear they're still in business with Performamce Bikes being right across the street.
 
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