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  1. #1
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    Cleanup on Aisle 4

    Preaching to the Choir, I know........

    Somewhat disheartening to see the damage inflicted by some careless, selfish, inconsiderate, and ignorant boneheads from last weekend.

    It rained steadily on sunday and it looks like a whole cavalry of riders laid waste to the place.

    So, it's only fireroad you say.

    Not exactly. As I was climbing, I could not help it, but cringe at what the trail might look like once I finally got on it. And, sure enough....the trail proper, also got worked. The fireroad? Big deal...but, I could tell by the amount of damage where these A-holes were headed.

    These tracks have already hardened up and if we don't get any more rain this winter...it'll probably look this way for a good long while.

    Here's the thing.....there's a handful of us that put in quite a bit of shovel time...and it's just a huge downer to see what a few chuckle heads with a disproportionate sense of entitlement, can do in just one day.


    Unlikely that anyone reading this thread would pull this crap. But, if you were riding in east county, last sunday, in the rain...YOU SUCK!

    In the immortal words of Pete Townshend..."Why should I care...Why should I care?"
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    Last edited by Aquaholic; 02-28-2008 at 07:46 AM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  2. #2
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    Eh, most likely someone will come through with a bulldozer and cover up all the damage.

  3. #3
    Trying a little
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    honestly, I don't get it. This is nothing worth writing about, if the pics are typical of the damage. Who cares, that's sand.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  4. #4
    Silence and Thunder...
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    yeah, I saw trucks parked under the bridge Sunday as I went by, and it rained out here all day long. All I could think was "...geezzzz.."...


    * it still surprises me how many still don't get it. I'm just disappointed that so many just don't care...
    That's been the problem at this spot for many, many years...
    ...every day sends future to past...

  5. #5
    involuntary dismounter
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    saw the same thing here in Tucson last weekend...didn't have a camera...

    it rains about 6 days out of the year here...and the ground is CLAY...and it takes about 4 minutes for the trails to dry when the sun comes out...

    and yet i was riding through HUGE RUTS!!!

    WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE????

    whew...ok...end of rant...
    Solo Trail Explorer and Granny Gear Ninja!


    friends will help you move, good friends will help you move a body...

  6. #6
    Toby Wong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    honestly, I don't get it. This is nothing worth writing about, if the pics are typical of the damage. Who cares, that's sand.
    what's not to get? this is like MTB 101. maybe you like railing thorugh choppy ruts?

    1,200 posts and you don't get it? why don't you buy a clue and re-learn the basics of mountain biking and taking care of a trail.


    #3 on the IMBA Responsible Riding Tips -
    Say No To Mud - Riding a muddy trail can cause unnecessary trail widening and erosion that may lead to long-lasting damage.
    lets not make it a religion, it is recreation

  7. #7
    "Ride Lots" - Eddie Mercx
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Who cares, that's sand.
    except where it's not, which is most everywhere.

    the only place in southern California that has truly sandy trails is the area between the Pacific Ocean and The Pacific coast Highway. Everywhere else has a whole lot of clay............

    YR

  8. #8
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    I remember seeing this post on STR: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...san-diego.html

    You have to read through the thread a little to get to the part where a group starts to organize a ride on ATT. I was a little surprised to see folks organizing a ride on ATT in the rain on a public forum, but obviously not everyone shares the same values concerning riding trails in the rain/mud. It was 100% clear it was going to rain Sunday as it had already started Saturday night when the posts were still happening.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristatos
    I remember seeing this post on STR: http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...san-diego.html

    You have to read through the thread a little to get to the part where a group starts to organize a ride on ATT. I was a little surprised to see folks organizing a ride on ATT in the rain on a public forum, but obviously not everyone shares the same values concerning riding trails in the rain/mud. It was 100% clear it was going to rain Sunday as it had already started Saturday night when the posts were still happening.

    K:

    Thank you for finding that link.

    I know those guys and I'll just say this(to them). You guys are experienced and well respected riders in the local MTB community. That said, you guys know better.

    Just a suggestion...the next time it's raining as much as it did last sunday, stay on your own local trails(south Bay) and EFF them up.

    Someone who frequents STR, would you please link this thread?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "I had a killer ride out to the ATT. Don Juan is having a hard time with post ride cramping. seems his new G37 6 speed might be taxing his leg".
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    Last edited by Aquaholic; 02-28-2008 at 08:10 AM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  10. #10
    Lord of the Chainrings
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    Well, at least the equestrians stayed away!
    "Hesitation is the Mother of Failure!"

    ~~ 951 for Dirt & Roadster for Asphalt ~~

  11. #11
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    i was *going* to go with that group, but i never did make it out last weekend. I'm guilty of riding ATT in the rain and post rain in the past. in fact, i've seen aqua out there shovel in hand building stuff during those conditions and stopped to chat. you didn't seem upset by me riding there so i was surprised to see this thread. i've always regarded anderson as one of those places people agree can be ridden in the rain much of that opinion has came from reading countless threads about places you can ride in the rain in the sd area.

    to be honest, those pics don't really look to bad. i can understand the issue of a trail widening because of people riding around a puddle, but i always am a bit baffled by tread imprints left in dirt being a big problem. but, judging from what aqua said in his post and as well as he knows that place, i guess i have to change my outlook on riding there when it's wet.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by danlorek
    i was *going* to go with that group, but i never did make it out last weekend. I'm guilty of riding ATT in the rain and post rain in the past. in fact, i've seen aqua out there shovel in hand building stuff during those conditions and stopped to chat. you didn't seem upset by me riding there so i was surprised to see this thread. i've always regarded anderson as one of those places people agree can be ridden in the rain much of that opinion has came from reading countless threads about places you can ride in the rain in the sd area.

    to be honest, those pics don't really look to bad. i can understand the issue of a trail widening because of people riding around a puddle, but i always am a bit baffled by tread imprints left in dirt being a big problem. but, judging from what aqua said in his post and as well as he knows that place, i guess i have to change my outlook on riding there when it's wet.

    Dan:

    What's up? Hey man, thanks for chiming in.

    I think it comes down to common sense ( of which is not so common any longer). Locally, most people know which trails hold up well after a rain. When it's raining that much and for that duration, as it did last sunday, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know better and to stay off.

    A lot of ATT is comprised of decomposed granite and holds up exceedingly well (even while raining). But, when you start approaching the 4 corners area the soil composition turns to clay based. If a substantial amount of rain has fallen, that area quickly turns into a greasy, slimy mess. I would recommend going no further than "Rest Rock" and then 180' ing it if conditions are dicey.

    If you'll recall, I did not have my bike with me that rainy day. Often times if it's raining, I will hike in with my shovel and do work/repairs.

    Last sunday, I also wanted to ride. I woke up and saw how much rain was coming down and the forecast called for continued rain throughout the day. So, instead I rode the couch.

    Those pictures may not convey the scope of what I saw...But, you know how pics often don't translate well. Of all the years I've ridden there, I haven't seen this much of a mess, made post rain.

    It was a weak act to be riding in those conditions.
    Last edited by Aquaholic; 02-28-2008 at 12:00 PM.
    What the EFF is "All MOUNTAIN"???

  13. #13
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    Yea, I got ya Aqua. DL, I'm in agreement with Aqua on this one too. You can ride up to "pistachio point" (ya like that?) real soon after a rain but to try and rail the top right after or during a rain is not a considerate or smart move.

    Let's hope this is not the end of the rain for the year so at least the ruts can be erased and start anew.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tappoix
    what's not to get? this is like MTB 101. maybe you like railing thorugh choppy ruts?

    1,200 posts and you don't get it? why don't you buy a clue and re-learn the basics of mountain biking and taking care of a trail..
    Seriously, can't you read? The pics showed a huge, graded wide fireroad and a deep sandy corner. If you want to see trail destruction come up to ventura county. They really mess things up here.

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  15. #15
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    That stinks. I hate those crusty ruts. I haven't ridden dirt for about the last 4-5 weekends. I finally rode my local little Black Mtn. this morning, which is virtually all rock. It's amazing how squishy the mountain bike feels after riding nothing but a road bike for weeks... Love it!

  16. #16
    ridin' Mary
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    Aqua,

    Were the pictures you posted actually fire roads or are these groomed trails that have grown? They look like fire roads to me. So that puts me in the "don't care" category. Gigantic big-arse bulldozers grade these every year or two. A few bike tire marks are not going to make any difference.

    The second picture you post shows deep drainage ruts indicating this has not been graded in a while, and there are a bunch of little bike induced ruts on the surface of the fire road around these deep ruts. If I'm riding along that trail, my eyes are gonna be on that big problem on the left and not the little problems on the right.

    I'm all for saving single track since that is truly rare in Socal. But count me out of any new "save the fire roads" campaign. Fire roads are general access for everyone at all times.

    This is a general-usage world, and there are way too many elitists trying to make everything match to their particular viewpoint. Equestrians want the entire world for horses. MTB purists want the entire world for single-track rides. Downies want the entire world to be a jump range with tricks at every corner. Tree-huggers want foot traffic only everywhere. There can and should be places for all of these activities. But the fire roads are general public and should not be subject of your specific preservation desires.

    I'm like you and like to take a light tread on the world (try to do no harm). But let's let fire roads be fire roads.

  17. #17
    cask conditioned
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Seriously, can't you read? The pics showed a huge, graded wide fireroad and a deep sandy corner.
    Again.. that ain't sand. They're cement hard deep wheel ruts. I don't live down there but I can feel for those that have to ride that now.
    Buy a bell, help the trails....

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  18. #18
    Crop Dusting Magistrate
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    You should see the massive damage to the mesa area at Sycamore Canyon (SD)...what was 8 to 10 inches wide is now 10 - 15 feet wide.

    All because some riders don't want to muddy their "sweet" rides.
    It wasn't me

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeti_Rider
    the only place in southern California that has truly sandy trails is the area between the Pacific Ocean and The Pacific coast Highway. Everywhere else has a whole lot of clay............YR
    The San Gabes?

  20. #20
    Front Range, Colorado
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    This topic has been touched on time and time again over the years. But it never fails there is always a group of morons that hit the trails during and right after a rain storm. Some of you look at Aqua as he is stating something not worth talking about. But in actualality this is IMO one of the most important topics to discuss here. These morans that have this "who cares" attitude are the ones who are going to be responsible for getting all our beloved trails shut down to MTBRS. Someone stated that at least the equestrians stayed away. No shi@ this is one of the reasons the equestrians and hikers hate us MTBRS. Because there is a select group of idiots in our sport that have that "who cares"attitude. And this attitude seems to be getting more and more frequent as the years go by." Watch out it's my trail move aside". We all need to get a clue and turn this trend around.
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  21. #21
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    Thats nothing just wait till California breaks off from mainland US and becomes its own island. All the trails are going to be wrecked then.
    I got 2 words for that, Nice!

  22. #22
    i can't type the letter s
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Aqua,
    Were the pictures you posted actually fire roads or are these groomed trails that have grown?

    I'm all for saving single track since that is truly rare in Socal. But count me out of any new "save the fire roads" campaign. Fire roads are general access for everyone at all times.

    Read Aqua's words closely everybody:
    "And, sure enough....the trail proper, also got worked. The fireroad? Big deal..."

    I'll alert you to context here. Aqua also doesn't care too much about fireroad, "Big deal", as in "I don't really care", but he was worried the "trail proper" was also worked which it turns out, his fears were justified. I'm sure he was too torqued as he went down to take more pics of the damage of "trail proper."

    Look, I think Aqua complains too much about a lot of things that I don't really care about, like cracks in his frames, it's not my frame so why should I care? , but in this case I guess I'll have to defend the guy.

  23. #23
    ridin' Mary
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    Hi Dirtjunkie,

    I agree with every word you wrote, because you used the word "Trails". I have no dispute in that context.

    But those pictures do not look like trails to me. If Aqua chimes in and states that these were formerly trails that have become bloated due to abuse, then again, I again agree. But if this is a county fire road that has recieved a few ruts, then I have to disagree with your comments in this context. Let fire roads be fire roads. Everyone in the pool!

  24. #24
    Front Range, Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhNooo
    Hi Dirtjunkie,

    I agree with every word you wrote, because you used the word "Trails". I have no dispute in that context.

    But those pictures do not look like trails to me. If Aqua chimes in and states that these were formerly trails that have become bloated due to abuse, then again, I again agree. But if this is a county fire road that has recieved a few ruts, then I have to disagree with your comments in this context. Let fire roads be fire roads. Everyone in the pool!
    You have to ride this fire road to get to the ST trails. So in essence you are messing up both while still wet. What do you think the other trail users think when they see bicycle tire markes molded into the trail and or fire road. They get pissed and turn against our sport. Even riding a fire road while wet is irresponsible and gives MTBRS a bad name.
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  25. #25
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    I think the subtext on some of these discussions that have been popping up lately in the SoCal forum this winter is that we're spoiled by great weather most of the year and that this winter has been wetter than the last couple of years and storms have been hitting on the weekends. Of course we're all itching to get out and ride and the temptation is great to hit up the trail soon after a storm or try to get in some riding and hope the forecast proves wrong.

    People need to take a step back and ask "Does my personal recreation/enjoyment of these trails take precedence over the potential damage to: the trail itself, the image of mountain bikers in general, the relationships MTBers have to build and work to maintain with land managers?"

    Some people feel entitled to ride whenever they want. Discussions like this help educate them that there are repercussions beyond cleaning mud off your bike at the end of a ride.

    PS. There are tons of great trail work opportunities for anyone feeling guilty or who enjoys getting out there and giving a little something back to the community. The weather's set up great conditions and SDMBA has a bunch of events lined up in the next few weeks. Hopefully we can all get out there and do some work.

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