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Calavera....Bummer

5K views 46 replies 23 participants last post by  calaverafreeriders 
#1 ·
Welp, it is happening again. Another area lost.
I was riding at Calavera today when I was confronted by two members of "State of California, The Resources Agency, Department of Fish and Game. Seems as if the Carlsbad Oaks North will extend into a fairly large portion of Calavera. I've been riding in this area for about a decade, I remember when the Carlsbad Police were patrolling it on their dirt bikes for people on 4x4's, quads other moto's, and mt bikers were allowed in all area's. Not according to the Fish and Game though, they believe mt bikers are having a major impact on the ecological structure, and that we are impacting the environment in a negative way...this coming from someone who drove their S.U.V. to the top of one of the hills to patrol said fragile area. The hypocracy kills me. I know every trail out here like the back of my hand, as I ride this area a couple times a week. The agent had the nerve to tell me that 60% of the area has been "Posted" for years. Not wanting to get into an arguement over the issue and trying to make sure I was a decent recreationalist, I listened to what they had to say, not liking it of course. With awe as I was asked to leave their "jurisdiction". I have seen where they have put up signs, for the most part people have stayed away, but they were saying areas that have never been posted have been posted for years.
Interesting thing, last week I ran into (not literally), a few representatives from the CNLM, after chatting with them for about 10 minutes, I rode away with a good feeling, and a fair understaing of the future of this area. Man did I have a different picture painted for me today. I was told that the area will now be patrolled more regularly by a gentleman by the name of Warren Wong, Environmental Scientist, South Coast Region.
Very discouraging, when all is said and done, the only trails left at Calavera will be the Baby-Stroller paths. If any of you know of anything different I would really like to hear it as this new development is going to be ridiculous. They informed me that there is going to be several sections developed in the same manner as Oaks North, and some housing development, as well as all the infrastructure that goes with it, ie: roads, sewers, storm drains, traffic signals, lights, pollution, population density.....the more I type, the angrier I get. This suck's so $%*&ing bad, totally getting railroaded. I've had it with Southern California.:madmax:
 
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#2 ·
that's such crap... i used to ride that area when i lived in nc. i went back after several years and it was so much more built-up. i noticed one of the most fun trails up the hill by the pond was closed.

it's a joke that riding a bicycle on a trail is so damaging yet when leveling off a whole mountain top for cookie-cutter homes is acceptable. this same thing was getting fired up down here (sd) in an area called tunnels. this was what the builder was giving to the city as they developed all of the surrounding areas. essentially it's canyons that are areas you wouldn't build on anyways.... but all the sudden the cyclists are impacting the area. c'mon, seriously?
 
#5 ·
Hmmm,
I ride there a lot and have never seen DFG out there, but maybe now I will.
Damn. I think the Carlsbad Oaks North project is really is more part of the Flightline area which we knew was doomed, but regardless of what you call it, yes, it sucks. Developers get free rein, pay to make what little is left into "mitigation", and we all lose open space needed for recreation.
I talked with Markus of CNLM last weekend at La Costa Preserve, who said CLNM is working to manage part of Calavera, taking over for part managed by a bankrupt agency for O'side -- still in litigation. May be why the trail signs put up a few years ago are not maintained.
Here's a coupla links -- below. I can't find it right now, but I've read that Calavera actually falls under four jurisdictions / management agencies, which has been slowing "progress" in trails management.

Time to get more involved...

http://www.sddt.com/Reports/article.cfm?RID=478&SourceCode=20070315crm
http://www.preservecalavera.org/issues.html
 
#6 ·
Calavera is literally the center of tri-city, being Oceanside, Carlsbad, and Vista, and the Carlsbad portion of it is the largest, therefore history speaks for itself, we know what is going to happen to that portion. Dang, too many places being lost to development to fuel local government tax revenue. This sucks, Carlsbad sucks. :madman:
 
#8 ·
There have been plans for a while for a new residential devleopment in the Sunny Creek area. Maybe that's what he was referring to.

I wonder what will be left. Probably the "mountain" , the "bmx" area and some orphaned canyons. When they punch Cannon through that will wipe out most of the standard trails in the main canyon.

The Preserve Calveras outfit has been pretty good about fighting this, but it is fait accompli.

I moved to carlsbad in 2000, partyl for the trails, esp. Flightline.

Thank god Elfin Forest is close by.
 
#10 ·
Dude that sucks. Sorry to see that.

Reminds me of when I was a kid. We had a small backyard but just on the other side of the chainlink fence was a hillside that dropped down to a freeway. We were so high up, we heard absolutely no feeway noise. But, we had an awesome view of the city. Our yard was probably 15 feet from the patio door to the fence, but with the view, it seemed like it went on forever.

We lived there for 9-10 years when the city decided to do us a "favor" and build a 12 foot high noise barrier/block wall, just on the other side of our fence. We now had what felt like a broom closet for a yard. We ended up moving a year or so later, thoguh we were only renters so it was easier.

Again, sorry to see that man.
 
#11 ·
mtdbike said:
I have live next to Flightline for fourteen years. Now I back to the Great Wall of Dirt.:madman:

I f I still want to ride directly from my house, then I am left with nearby Calaveras but who knows how long that will last.
if they filled that in and now block a view you once had.....then it is your lucky day....you can sue like a mother fvckerer....get other people in on it too.
 
#12 ·
OldDogDan said:
I can't find it right now, but I've read that Calavera actually falls under four jurisdictions / management agencies, which has been slowing "progress" in trails management.
I read that as well. The four jurisdictions actually helped with keeping the area undeveloped for a quite a long time but it looks like those days are coming to an end. A big bummer. When flightline was around I could take about 2 miles of pavment and get in about 28 miles of dirt with virtually no loop backs. North County is rapidly becoming more and more a land of dwindling and fragmented open space. While I think we need to push back on developement as much as possible, we should also try to get all of these little islands of open space connected. For example "offical" trails or recreational easements (Not the dirt sidewalk BS that you see all over San Ellijo Hills) connecting the La Costa Preserve with Elfin Forest and Lake Hodges. The trails/dirt roads exits there today. It is a matter of getting them shifted from social/downlow to offical status. Much easier said than done of course.
 
#18 ·
Heartbreaking.

we bought a home in carlsbad two years ago, and Calavera/Flightline was a big part of the reason why.

Does anyone have any real, documented time table as to what/when is going to happen here?

I'm going to the next SDMBA meeting for sure. Flagstaff looking better and better.
 
#20 ·
Gents, this is in response to the poster who complained about the CA Dept of Fish and Game representatives explanation.

I've lived here for 7 years, and participated face-to-face in multiple agency meetings, that specifically addressed the area use.

The CDFG rep is correct.

The Calavera Highlands Ecological Reserve was partly closed (the southern 60% to ALL use, including hikers, bikers, nature lovers) in 2002, by the then manager, Kim McKee, in response to abuse by dirt-bikers and her concerns about the impact of new development and the higher use that would ensue.

At the same time (after a lot of patient persuasion) she opened a link for Bike use, that had never been officially opened before. This was a stretch for her, and it was due to a request from Carlsbad, with the support of the land manager nearby, who had gotten a lot of help from volunteers including mountain bikers, and who offered that stretch of land on their border as the route.

As Kim explained then, by statute (ie law) CA State reserve land is set aside as habitat preserve as its primary purpose. Any secondary recreational use is solely where that use is "nature dependent" ie bird watching, hiking. In her understanding of the CA Dept of Fish and Game, mountain biking was NOT nature dependent. And a change to the policy would be only after changing the statute.


Unfortunately, a lot of midnite trail building has gone on recently on the state land - especially since Flightline has been closed. I've seen it, and so have you who ride here. The abuse of a few irresponsible riders hurts the credibility of the entire MTB community. Its sad that is true, but its human nature that we generalize. I've had a dip-squat on a bike furiously swear and rant at me in front of my toddlers, over his mistaken impression on a route, and while I am sure he meant well - I've had to remind myself ever since that not all MTBers are arrogant SOBs.

As to the signs - you need to walk in order to see them sometimes - a couple are covered a bit by brush, but its otherwise clearly posted in multiple places, has been for 6 years. Even if it weren't, once you've been advised by the land-manager, thats it - the argument for "an excuse for use since its not posted" is not logical, nor is it a legal defense, doofus or not.

A suggestion, with respect:

The posters here who advise against whining are correct - the ONLY way to change the status quo is get organized and work professionally in groups, lobbying the state and other entities for change to allow Multi-use. Its slow, but it works, and more important, its a win-win for everyone - hikers, bikers, horse-riders. We can all get along - it has been done elsewhere, and the more support the better.

Follow SDMBAs lead, get out and get your hands dirty, and stop bad-mouthing people who are just doing their jobs defending the land they love too.
 
#21 ·
calaverapreservebc,
Do you work for the local government, or do they just have you in their back pocket? It seems you have little passion for MTBing, and like to throw out a lot of political BS. All your posts on MTBR have been about the North County areas and none of them have much to do with MTBing. They all seem to say 'Do the right thing, be patient, the local government has the right to do what ever they want.'

Its quite ironic that the gov. restricts land use (on quickly disappearing land) to recreational use, but then goes and lets a developer bulldoze 100s of acres and put up track homes. Then they designate a small parcel and call it a "reserve." What about all the land they just developed. I guess they didn't care about that land. Obviously their palms aren't being greased by MTBers like they are from the developers.

You have lived in the area for 7 years? Thats nothing. Most of these guys have been riding there for more years than that, let alone grew up there.

Its sad to see the North County area turning into an overcrowded, suburban sprawl. It used to be one of the greatest areas in SoCal and still have that downhome, beach culture feeling.

You encourage us to be patient and "organize" ourselves. By the time that happens there will be no more open land.

"I've had to remind myself ever since that not all MTBers are arrogant SOBs." Interesting quote?!?! So I guess you arent really a MTBer, or is it that you wake up every morning and have to remind yourself that you aren't an arrogant SOB.

Please keep the political BS to a minimum. Why don't you try and defend the mtbers, and not every member of the city gov. for once. Look out your window for me and try to imagine what it used to be like. I am stationed in Guam for three years and was hoping to return to the North County Area. Unfortunitly I can't see having to deal with all the BS, traffic, development and restrictions in the area. Southern california is still one of the greatest places in the world, but its scary to think what it will be like in 10, 15, 20 years.

TG
 
#22 ·
calaverapreservebc & G-Air,

To me at least, mountain biking is highly "nature dependent" --- otherwise, it'd be road biking. But, it's not a black or white world...anyway, I've been enjoying Calaveras in various ways for nearly 40 years...I think you're both right...see you out there while it's still there.
 
#24 ·
G-AIR said:
calaverapreservebc,

ranting, whining, *****ing

TG
So, just to clarify: you're also not a mountainbiker, don't even live in San Diego at all and are carping about someone that took the time to tell the truth, even though you just don't like it? You don't like the news, so you rant and cry like a ***** at whoever bothers to tell it? That person, whoever it is, obviously does something you probably have neither the ball nor intellect to even try: shows up and works on the issue. If s/he's not aggro enough on behalf of MTB, that's YOUR FAULT for not being there, too.

Stay in Guam. We have enough kooks in SoCal already.
 
#25 ·
When Everything Is Illegal

Wow to think we are actually approaching that. How true it is that Mtn biking is nature dependent. There have been plenty of hands getting dirty attempting to get Mtn biking established here in North County. Soon we are going to break ground for a new trail at La Costa. It will be replacing a boring old motorcycle trail that goes up the hill at better than a 13 to 16% grade and has been widening and rutting and is a downhill run only with nothing but brake. Replacing it will be some fun switchbacks and encounter with some rock garden challenges. It will be riddable up and down and have flow and rythum. Please take five seconds to thank Jessie at jvine@cnlm.org for helping get this done. Coordinating with SDMBA this will be a great team effort between bikers and the land managers of alot of open space around here. They are also the people in charge of managing Flightline.
Speaking of how bad government is how about the county supervisor "Bill Horn". Isn't he getting his dirty little shorts hung out to dry!!!!!! Misappropriation of campaign funds for golfing and $200 steak dinners and suits from Nordstrom and putting his office manager up in one of his Carlsbad homes. Of course it was under his reign that Flightline, on county land, got tanked as mitigation for the wonderful Carlsbad Oaks Development. Now Mark has the "Great Wall of Dirt".
SO we have two guys who are saying some good stuff. One guy says we should follow a more positive path work with the system and not demean the ones simply doing their jobs. I'll buy that. But then the other guy says who are these officials who OK 100 ACRES to be scraped clean and the ONE acre left be deemed "preserve" WITH NO USAGE.
I think we have to do both things. Question authority and get involved. In British Columbia they have major involvement by the Mtn Bike community. I was just there and it was wonderful. They have created a mtnbike culture that will live on long after they have died. I am working with Minette ,SDMBA, and we have put another iron in the fire for Flightline. We just aren't ready to quit yet. We can just keep knocking on the door. Doesn't cost us any money and we might get lucky. We are building a working relationship with the land managers and if we keep this up the carlsbad city council is going to have to help us.
 
#26 ·
Hi Rich,
Great news about your new Denk trail. Your last post about it I saw was not encouraging. Glad you turned it around! I just sent the thank you to Jessie. Obviously many thanks to you also. I was riding out there this morning -- stopped and talked to several other bikers and a hiker -- everyone appreciates your work. Please let us know if a trail work day is coming up, or more council appearances in support of Minette. I check the SDMBA site regularly.
Dan
 
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