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  1. #1
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    Bulldozers at Martha's Grove !!!

    I was there yesterday and noticed two small bulldozers one in the oak tree grove pointed up hill and one at the bottom near the fire road. They had smoothed the trail from the grove to the fire road a nice sanitary six feet of very soft horse friendly dirt. I really hope they are not going to do the same up hill from the grove. Does anybody know what is going on there?

  2. #2
    CEB
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    Martha's for the masses

    WHAT IS GOING ON YOU ASK???

    Pre-grading for the ADA approved cement path to the grove. The county was threatened with an access lawsuit by Theodore A. Pinnock...... .

    Can't think of any other logical reason to FUBAR the trail

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    Quote Originally Posted by CEB
    WHAT IS GOING ON YOU ASK???

    Pre-grading for the ADA approved cement path to the grove. The county was threatened with an access lawsuit by Theodore A. Pinnock...... .

    Can't think of any other logical reason to FUBAR the trail
    You mean the leech? That guy extorted so many small business owners in the mtn. towns.

  4. #4
    CEB
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    The "Ted Pinnock" is a guess....... a long shot. Prob something more along the lines of "the horse owners" wanted a friendlier trail for riding. Horses can't handle single track banked turns....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEB
    The "Ted Pinnock" is a guess....... a long shot. Prob something more along the lines of "the horse owners" wanted a friendlier trail for riding. Horses can't handle single track banked turns....
    He just targets small business owners. I don't think he sues preserves and parks. Don't give him any ideas though.

    Martha's has been sanitized for our protection before. Sucks.

  6. #6
    CEB
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    I've been riding the areas above (Calle de Rob) and the ridges as of late. Our next rain season, whichever decade it occurs, will correct all this trail sanitization (I hope)

  7. #7
    CEB
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    I'll be riding Sycamore from the high school at 3:00PM 10/9/07.......

    COME ALONG!
    Last edited by CEB; 10-09-2007 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Dolor
    That sucks. meanwhile, what gives with the supposed signage at the Sycamore Canyon end of the preserve, that's supposed to list the distqance to Mission Trails? Is that for real? And does it signal an agreement with the USMC over the Stowe Trail?

    I almost went out there yesterday for my ride, but got started too late. By then, as we all know, it was warmin' up.....
    My buddie's wife is a planner in San Diego Parks and Rec. and she said they were still working on that(2 weeks ago). Negotiating with the Marines.
    Don

  9. #9
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    Here's the scoop....

    I saw this coming a few weeks ago on a night ride out there. They are going to "open up the trail" for multi-use. Or so says the park ranger. I saw the mini-dozer out there and noticed they were working on the trail nearest the ranger station and I inquired as to what the near future plans were for the area. I was told that they were going to have to widen some of the trails so there was access for multi use. I shot my most sarcastic look and then asked, "Why?" The quick answer is that the Equestrians who use the area also are not able to easily navigate the area with their horses. The downhill part of Martha's Grove will be "Managed". In other words, it will be widened and the rocks and ruts will be negated. I was told that the short, rocky area that has the bypass near the bottom of Martha's Grove "should" remain the same, but the majority of the rest is scheduled to be widened. Fortunately for us, the people working on the trails are civil service workers and once they get to the hard part with the embedded rocks, I am assuming they will just decide to leave it be and move on to easier work. Then again, we may end up with some hard worker who wants to get the job done "right" and clear the whole thing.... It's only going to get worse as the houses are built on the hillsides to the west over the next few years. Sycamore canyon will not be a mountainbiker's area, but instead will at some point become more of a park area with the housing encroachment (Fanita Ranch). Several hundred homes that look directly down upon the park will change the way it is used dramatically. Expect to see more joggers, strollers, walkers, hikers, hybrid bikes (heaven forbid) and BMX'ers in the area over the next several years. Enjoy it while we can.....
    Last edited by jonsocal; 10-09-2007 at 10:56 AM. Reason: gramatical mistakes found
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  10. #10
    CEB
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsocal
    I saw this coming a few weeks ago on a night ride out there. They are going to "open up the trail" for multi-use. Or so says the park ranger...snip... Enjoy it while we can.....
    That is the future of Sycamore, sad but true. Get your game on now and ride often, as these are the last "days of wine" for Sycamore. Give it no more than a year and the Stowe Trail will be "noisy" from heavy machinery chewing up earth.

    I have a hard time with the heavy handedness on the trail work. Seems like there are 20 bikes riding that trail network for every one horse. WHY do the equestrians set the standard for trail care anyway?

    Horses........ ah "roadapples"..........

  11. #11
    We're going down WHAT??
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEB
    WHY do the equestrians set the standard for trail care anyway?

    Good question.... Maybe because they are better lobbyists. Equestrians are much better lobbyists than we mountainbikers. They have the organization that we lack. Sure SDMBA and NORBA are great organizations, they just don't have the funding and visibility that the equestrians have. Plus, we need to attend more meetings and be more involved. (I include myself in that statement.) Ebasil knows what I mean. So does TCB.
    "Political correctness is tyranny with manners."
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  12. #12
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    well if they do to the north section from the parking area into martha's what they did up the hill from the ranger station you won't be able to ride it. i noticed that a few weeks ago and the dirt was deep and covered my 2.35 tires and rims. it has gotten better the last week but if thats the plan for the whole trail is will be ruined.

    the ADA stuff is true I talked with the ranger a couple months ago and they had to insall handycap parking infront of the rangers station. next they will need to somehow get people from the two staging areas to the parking. might be a road around the trail or something like the east side of MTRP. that is just a guess either way its going down hill fast.

  13. #13
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    Get your game on now and ride often

    What he said^^^

  14. #14
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    That sucks, I hope they don't change it to much!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonsocal
    I saw this coming a few weeks ago on a night ride out there. They are going to "open up the trail" for multi-use. Or so says the park ranger. I saw the mini-dozer out there and noticed they were working on the trail nearest the ranger station and I inquired as to what the near future plans were for the area. I was told that they were going to have to widen some of the trails so there was access for multi use. I shot my most sarcastic look and then asked, "Why?" The quick answer is that the Equestrians who use the area also are not able to easily navigate the area with their horses. The downhill part of Martha's Grove will be "Managed". In other words, it will be widened and the rocks and ruts will be negated. I was told that the short, rocky area that has the bypass near the bottom of Martha's Grove "should" remain the same, but the majority of the rest is scheduled to be widened. Fortunately for us, the people working on the trails are civil service workers and once they get to the hard part with the embedded rocks, I am assuming they will just decide to leave it be and move on to easier work. Then again, we may end up with some hard worker who wants to get the job done "right" and clear the whole thing.... It's only going to get worse as the houses are built on the hillsides to the west over the next few years. Sycamore canyon will not be a mountainbiker's area, but instead will at some point become more of a park area with the housing encroachment (Fanita Ranch). Several hundred homes that look directly down upon the park will change the way it is used dramatically. Expect to see more joggers, strollers, walkers, hikers, hybrid bikes (heaven forbid) and BMX'ers in the area over the next several years. Enjoy it while we can.....
    Thanks for the info. Your assessment of Fanita Ranch is right on. They use bulldozers on existing trails and then wonder why mtn bikers build "underground" trails. What choice do we have when existing trails are made off limits or destroyed?

  16. #16
    Crop Dusting Magistrate
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    A news bit on this is in signonsandiego.com today...

    Groups oppose Fanita Ranch report

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...m10fanita.html
    It wasn't me

  17. #17
    mechmann_mtb
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    sucky.

    my only advice is stop procreating.

  18. #18
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    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by CEB
    I have a hard time with the heavy handedness on the trail work. Seems like there are 20 bikes riding that trail network for every one horse. WHY do the equestrians set the standard for trail care anyway?
    I hear ya, but the equestrians really don't set the trail standards. Once the local agency gets it in their head to do major trail work (as opposed to repairs) both the County and City trails guidelines require that the trails meet ADA standards. Now, don't get all wonky on how many wheelchairs are rollin' Martha's Grove...it's location neutral. So, the guidelines say "minimum 48" wide trail". They just do.

    Here's hoping the mini-dozers seen out there are trail machines w/ 48" blade tracks. If so, the work will sanitize the snot out of the trails and the absence of rain may leave them soft and rutty in no time, but it's just the way it goes, and in this case Not The Doing of Hateful Whackjobs on Horses. Even if the Rangers' comments are otherwise, the ADA thing isn't equestrian driven.

    Two things I think are interesting: 1) SD City's Trails Guru has been very supportive of trails design that installs a 48" wide CORRIDOR but a narrower track. Thanks to SDMBA and Multiuse Trails Coalition work out on the bunny tracks in Los Pen, the concept has been tested and proven to work well for all involved. Trails are brushed and even graded to the 4' width, then landscaped/camoflaged to suggest a much narrower, meandering singletrack. With use, the blue line hardens-in and it looks like, rides like and acts like singletrack with decent sightlines, but it meets City spec. It takes an insightful Ranger to buy in to the idea, but it could happen at Goodan Ranch if you speak up. 2) There are other jurisdictions that require more than 4' width for equestrian trails, since you can't fit two horses (ie passing an oncoming rider) within that space. Okay, so nobody local has the guts to recognize that, but you can remember to bring it up when appropriate.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    2) There are other jurisdictions that require more than 4' width for equestrian trails, since you can't fit two horses (ie passing an oncoming rider) within that space. Okay, so nobody local has the guts to recognize that, but you can remember to bring it up when appropriate.
    I am not sure what you meant by this but Martha’s is supposed to be a one way trail so this would not apply in this instance. I called Gooden Ranch and spoke with the ranger she said the work was only supposed to be brushing back the trail (but the operators might be getting a little carried away) and as soon as the dozers hit the rocky areas they would be forced to stop since they will not be breaking out the dynamite anytime soon. I suggested in a respectful manner that keeping the character of the trail should be strived for and she agreed. The more people that make there wishes known as taxpayers and trail users the better. The number for Gooden is 858-513-4737 but please be respectful.

  20. #20
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    I was out there yesterday and the work doesn't look bad to me. As far as I know the definition of single track is 4' wide. After they go in and dress the trail and we get some rain it should be back to normal minus the berms. Just keep to the middle and everything should be fine.

    I talked to the Rangers and a concern is that they be able to get the gator into Martha's if somebody needs to be hauled out in case of emergency. It seems to me the word "liability" is also floating around re: trail conditions.

    As a wise person said, "We're all in this together." The only chance people have of stopping the Fanita Ranch development is if all trail users get together and throw our weight around. That includes equestrians and hikers. Especially concerning Sycamore because it is a multi-user trail system and has never been advertised as mountain bike only.

    I agree with the sentiment that the trail should be ridden often because there are changes a comin'.

    On the other hand, if Fanita does get built plans call for a Starbuck's right in the valley North of the treatment plant. Imagine a ride and a latte.

  21. #21
    mechmann_mtb
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    screw that... i would rather see sidewalks with strollers on them than 4' wide trails.

    i say build more houses! gotta house all the people somewhere!

  22. #22
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    "I know the definition of single track is 4' wide."

    hahahahahahahah. F'n Sad.

    Money Wins - We lose.
    I'm so done with Martha's.
    It wasn't me

  23. #23
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    "I know the definition of single track is 4' wide."

    hahahahahahahah. F'n Sad.

    Money Wins - We lose.
    I'm so done with Martha's.
    It wasn't me

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbmojo
    I am not sure what you meant by this but Martha’s is supposed to be a one way trail so this would not apply in this instance.
    The 48" width requirement does apply, even to one-way trails. My comments regarding passing room are for application in any place where trail users might pass one another, including areas outside Goodan Ranch.

  25. #25
    mechmann_mtb
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    The 48" width requirement does apply, even to one-way trails. My comments regarding passing room are for application in any place where trail users might pass one another, including areas outside Goodan Ranch.

    dude... i don't know what kind of crack people smoke, but i hope you are joking about you thinking that trails should all be 48" wide!

    this is what trails are supposed to look like...


  26. #26
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    No matter how wide they make the trails, they will never meet ADA guidelines because of the slope -- it has to be less than 5% or so to accomodate a wheelchair.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    sucky.

    my only advice is stop procreating.
    and yet you're parents spawned you so are they part of the problem?

    YR

  28. #28
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    Good job!

    yeah the ideal world would just be a bunch of adult ghey f@lchers

  29. #29
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    Ya scrape a 4' wide base, get rid of the berms, ride in the middle, get some rain, some green stuff grows, ya got probably a 12" - 24" wide track. Let's talk in a couple months and see what it looks like. Just a thought.

  30. #30
    mechmann_mtb
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    nm...

  31. #31
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    Hope

    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    dude... i don't know what kind of crack people smoke, but i hope you are joking about you thinking that trails should all be 48" wide!
    Bro, it's apparently bad crack. I never said I think trails should be any particular width.

  32. #32
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    Rode through Martha's for the first time in a few weeks and noticed the bobcat is further up the trail. Talked to the Ranger I met on the way up to the Lakeside staging area and he said the bobcat was stopped for the time being because of mountain bikers who wanted the trail to be more technical. In his words, "a few folks found the right person to complain to" and the work was halted. I spoke with him previously on many occasions and in general he is a mountain bike advocate. He said the work was being done because it is a multi use trail and he favors it because he has had to pull too many injured bikers out of the grove.

    At any rate, this is just an update not a commentary so I hope no one finds it necessary to insult my family, writing ability, riding ability, etc.

    Happy Trails,
    Dave

  33. #33
    TCB
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    Quote Originally Posted by djphaneuf
    Rode through Martha's for the first time in a few weeks and noticed the bobcat is further up the trail. Talked to the Ranger I met on the way up to the Lakeside staging area and he said the bobcat was stopped for the time being because of mountain bikers who wanted the trail to be more technical. In his words, "a few folks found the right person to complain to" and the work was halted. I spoke with him previously on many occasions and in general he is a mountain bike advocate. He said the work was being done because it is a multi use trail and he favors it because he has had to pull too many injured bikers out of the grove.

    At any rate, this is just an update not a commentary so I hope no one finds it necessary to insult my family, writing ability, riding ability, etc.

    Happy Trails,
    Dave
    Thanks for the update
    "No matter where you go there you are" BUCKAROO BANZAI

  34. #34
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    Confirm that

    I just talked to one of the staff today and he confirmed that the SWECO is not going any further. I think it's too bad because the failed water bars that have become "technical features" really are a hazard. I'd like to really take a close look at the trail and figure out if there's a way to leave technical features in while restoring a safe flow for others. I think it can be done because the trail is pretty wide (4 feet) in most of these places.

    I saw other places the SWECO had been where they just went through, busted berms, and didn't do anything else in the way of grooming. The result is a berm with tracks on top and a new drainage rut down the trail. Pretty disappointing. The county crew didn't follow up the way they should have.

    We'll be having a trail crew day in February so there will be plenty to do.

    gardner@sdmba.com
    SDMBA liaison Sycamore Canyon/Goodan Ranch Open Space Preserves

  35. #35
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    Need to See It

    Gardner
    What to ride there this up coming week? I would love to see it for myself and kick in some help. Thursday afternoon?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBasil
    Bro, it's apparently bad crack. I never said I think trails should be any particular width.
    What??? You think you're a loy-yer or something parsing context and getting all hermeneutical on us??? (A bit late on this but I just saw it.)

    U B Careful out there!

  37. #37
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    Well

    The areas they havee grated with the sweco (or whatever) has been going on for weeks.....on and off. They are just sanitizing the trail in the closed park getting ready for winter.
    Of course they **** it up for us....but it has nothing to do with the so called Fantia Ranch.

    They just want to make it suck for mtb'rs...this way it is nice and soft for the horses to make huge divits

    Just ride it......
    Eric

    "Pain is nothing compared to what it feels like to quit"

  38. #38
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    Scoping Sycamore

    Time? Place? Ya wanna email me off forum?

    gardner@sdmba.com

    -Gardner

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