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  1. #1
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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    Just like the title says, the old trails like Fall Line, are they still open or accessible? Thanks!

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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    I got word they are closed. Keep in mind it was just a "rumor" but I've heard it from a couple people now. I know skyline is still open but fall line and stuff like that may have been taken away


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    I'm not sure about Fall line, no one up here really rides it anymore. Trails like Skyline, Trick or Treat, Powerline, Pineknot(1e01), Dickies, Plantation, Cabin 89 and Fern are trails which are more commonly used on the Snow Summit side of the mountain. Skyline, which is the newest trail up here, is ever expanding, using what used to be called Wet Dream( now called Forest Dream) Secret Trail, and Cedar lake trail are going to be part of the Skyline trail as well as Plumbers and Fern trail on the east end. There is plenty of trails to ride up here as well as the Snow Summit bike park.
    On the north side of the lake, Grout Bay and Grays peak are awesome trails as well.

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    Are they expanding skyline to the east or west? That trail is too tight for much speed but does offer some breathtaking views.

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    Skyline will add 6 miles by the end of the summer, as listed on signs from the Trails foundation. There is already some rough cut on the west end.

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    Sounds like the BB trails are really coming along! I might have to schedule a long weekend up that way this summer. As I recall it doesn't get too hot up that way. A good summer getaway.

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    Is there an online interactive map of any sort showing the current trails and the proposed build outs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by aperral View Post
    Just like the title says, the old trails like Fall Line, are they still open or accessible? Thanks!
    xc trails are open...if you are looking for the more advanced DH trails...forget it...They are all closed. The best job of closing trails I have ever seen from top to bottom. I have never seen 2 to 3 foot of debris and it goes the whole length of the trail. No chance of bringing the trails back unless you have 20 guys and a bobcat to remove the heavier stumps and rocks
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    Last time I checked they were closed. I could not get to fall line and Cables, and all the trails on the other side of the mountain were closed as well, kind of sucks because those were really fun trails and have been around forever, but I guess Summits got to try and keep it safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Is there an online interactive map of any sort showing the current trails and the proposed build outs?
    Mountain Bike Trails near Big Bear and San Bernadino National Forest, California

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    Fall line and Cables are closed because they are set to be re-routed to make them more sustainable, Plumbers trail is finished and is really cool, although since we have had no rain yet, its pretty loose and powdery, also the Skyline trail at the western end has been extended by a mile or so. Looks like we may get some rain this weekend which will help the trails.
    The DH trails were closed because they were illegally and poorly made. Also, some illegal, but more sustainable trails were taken out of the official trail network, but are still there, to make room for the newer, legal trails. All is good up here in the way of existing, new and re-routed trails and there is a lot more to come.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    F to make room for the newer, legal trails. All is good up here in the way of existing, new and re-routed trails and there is a lot more to come.
    It's been over a year since the resort built any new "DH" trails. And they still don't have a legitimate, challenging downhill trail. From what I hear there aren't any plans to build any in the near future on the resort. Personally I liked big bear before the park reopened, and I could ride all the "unsustainable" trails that had been there for over a decade. I could be dead wrong, but I've completely lost faith in snow summit management.

    Or are there non-SS organizations that are building new DH trails? That could be cool then. Although "sustainable" is usually code for "flat", so I'm skeptical. But I've been wrong plenty of times before.

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    Nope, there are no plans for any "off the mountain, full blown DH trails". Unfortunately, the soil and terrain are not conducive for really steep trails like the one's they have closed, those things were a horrible mess after a storm because no one maintained them. I think we made the right choice to close them to get more multi-use trails, so if you want the trails to be like they were, its not going to happen anytime soon, although in Snow Summits master plan does call for more trails of varying degrees.
    As far as sustainable trails being flat, they are not flat, but usually any section thats greater than a 10% grade is considered unacceptable.

    Maybe a different area could build more DH specific trails, I don't know why other ski resorts in So. Cal have not jumped in.

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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    The "new" Pineknot trail is super fun.

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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    So I've been hearing. What's new about it? Rode it last year and it was nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    So I've been hearing. What's new about it? Rode it last year and it was nice.
    The bottom section has been completely re-routed to avoid the creek; there's a quarter mile uphill section, a steep sucker, just when you think it's all over. It's an outstanding trail in either direction; personally I prefer to climb it because of the tourist traffic; unless you're riding off-hours the trail gets pretty crowded and downhill just isn't much fun if you constantly have to worry about a loose dog around the next blind corner.

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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    That's the problem I had last year. I slowed and went to the side of the trail but this dog kept jumping in front of me and I about ran it over. Wasn't there already a loose steep climb on the lower section of the trail?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Island20v View Post
    That's the problem I had last year. I slowed and went to the side of the trail but this dog kept jumping in front of me and I about ran it over. Wasn't there already a loose steep climb on the lower section of the trail?
    If you don't recall splashing through a creek then you rode the re-route last year; it's been about that long since it was done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS View Post
    xc trails are open...if you are looking for the more advanced DH trails...forget it...They are all closed. The best job of closing trails I have ever seen from top to bottom. I have never seen 2 to 3 foot of debris and it goes the whole length of the trail. No chance of bringing the trails back unless you have 20 guys and a bobcat to remove the heavier stumps and rocks
    Yeah so instead of having a few downhill dudes out having fun we now have a top to bottom debris field. Makes sense to me. Freaking morons!
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    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  20. #20
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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    I rode Pineknot on a Thursday and came across two hikers and two bikers, all going up. Great flow, and well-marked/maintained.

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    Here are some photos of the trail building we did today on the latest extension of the Skyline trail. This section is where Forest Dream crosses 2n10 and ends at Secret Trail. We had some nice thunderstorms today and most likely for the next couple of days, this will help pack down the new trail(s)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0731.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0732.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0733.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0734.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0737.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0738.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0739.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0740.jpg  

    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?-img_0741.jpg  

    Last edited by Hurricane Jeff; 07-06-2014 at 08:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Here are some photos of the trail building we did today on the latest extension of the Skyline trail. This section is where Forest Dream crosses 2n10 and ends at Secret Trail. We had some nice thunderstorms today and most likely for the next couple of days, this help pack down the new trail(s)
    Nice work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker View Post
    Nice work!
    +1!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Nope, there are no plans for any "off the mountain, full blown DH trails". Unfortunately, the soil and terrain are not conducive for really steep trails like the one's they have closed, those things were a horrible mess after a storm because no one maintained them.
    I'm an intermediate rider and for the most part I think all the recent trail work and 'new' lift served trails are great. However, every now and then it's fun to ride steeper, loose, sketchy (IMO) stuff as well. So, I agree with the sentiment of Gemini2k05's post. 'Sustainable trails' is merely a euphamism for the types of trails which are accepted by land managers and rideable by most. Those that enjoy the challenge of the types of trails that were shut down don't care if the trails are a 'horrible mess'. The natural, unpredictable state of such trails holds their lure. Water combined with the fall line nature of said trails does a pretty good job of maintenance in that context.

    I understand the 'politics' behind trails management, however, I don't agree that the current trend towards making ALL trails 'sustainable' is the correct thing for the sport or my own personal enjoyment. Last time I rode the old trails, 'moondust' made it nearly impossible to ride close behind my riding buddies. Hanging back wasn't any better as it hid all the rocks so one was riding by braille. Giggled when a family of hikers yelled out to warn us of the upcoming log roll/jump like they were saving us from certain catastrophy... Good stuff!

    As far as sustainable trails being flat, they are not flat, but usually any section thats greater than a 10% grade is considered unacceptable.
    Flat is rather subjective. As to the 10% grade being unacceptable, the designation of acceptable is based on a set of characteristics of what defines a particular type of trail (i.e. XC flow trail with some 'safe' jumps) which has been given the name 'sustainable'. Suddenly a trail that doesn't have those charcteristics is 'unsustainable' and therefore not tenable?

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    ajdonner and Gemini2k05 should come up here, do trail building and maintenance on your own free time( instead of riding or spending time with the family, etc.) so those trails can be ridden/ hiked by a bunch of people you don't even know, can use them, but we're happy to build those trails.
    After you guys volunteer all those hours of meetings and hard labor, then you may spike interest in someone who cares about your plight of unsustainable trails.
    If you guys are so upset, do the building and maintenance if your home towns and maybe a bunch of people that you guys don't know will come to your trails and beat the crap out of them, and leave the mess for you guys to clean up.
    Why does those trails you want have to be up here?
    The trails that were closed were just a skid marks down the side of a hill and no more.
    BB soil and how dry the conditions are most of the year, those don't work, sorry!

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    HJ I wasn't trying to call you out, simply wanted to make some observations regarding the current 'accepted' thinking as to what a mtb trail should be. I acknowledged the work being done on the 'new' trails that have/and are being built around BB-I think it's awesome.

    Trails like the ones we've lost, in BB, generally aren't legal because they're not considered sustainable (it's that label I am against), so while they exist locally no one is going to advertise them. I volunteer my time to build trail at least a few weekends a year and have attended multiple city council meetings to support the idea of a bike park and the creation of new/adoption of existing ST in local open space. As to helping out up in BB, it's 2.5 hours away so there's no way for me to reasonably do so in person. If there is an opportunity for public input let me (us) know and I'll be happy to write my support.

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    Come join us on July 26 for some of the best riding in Big Bear and the San Bernardino Mountain. 20k-100k with up to 10,000 feet of climbing...you choose. Skyline Trail, Seven Oaks Trail, SART, and MORE! Check out the Big Bear MTB Gran Fondo and the Grizzly 100 (a National Ultra Endurance Series race). bigbeargranfondo.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Here are some photos of the trail building we did today on the latest extension of the Skyline trail. This section is where Forest Dream crosses 2n10 and ends at Secret Trail. We had some nice thunderstorms today and most likely for the next couple of days, this will help pack down the new trail(s)
    @Jeff: I rode your trail today in both directions; it really is good work, I particularly like the little rock complex at the Forest Dream end, it really makes you pay attention!

    My route today took me up Fern, west on Skyline all the way past Clark's, Jeff's new section, then down Forest Dream and onto Canyon until it got loose and boring, then I turned around and rode the same way back to Clark's, down Trick or Treat, up Pineknot and then back east on Skyline to Fern. Now my legs hurt but I really appreciate all the work that has gone into the BB trail network. 35 miles today and 32 miles of that was singletrack

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    ajdonner and Gemini2k05 should come up here, do trail building and maintenance on your own free time( instead of riding or spending time with the family, etc.) so those trails can be ridden/ hiked by a bunch of people you don't even know, can use them, but we're happy to build those trails.
    After you guys volunteer all those hours of meetings and hard labor, then you may spike interest in someone who cares about your plight of unsustainable trails.
    If you guys are so upset, do the building and maintenance if your home towns and maybe a bunch of people that you guys don't know will come to your trails and beat the crap out of them, and leave the mess for you guys to clean up.
    Why does those trails you want have to be up here?
    The trails that were closed were just a skid marks down the side of a hill and no more.
    BB soil and how dry the conditions are most of the year, those don't work, sorry!
    Right, I'm going to drive several hours so I can be summit's unpaid trail crew because they are too cheap to build real dh trails. Great idea. I already spend more than my fair share of time building stuff where I live. And I don't complain when those pesky "out of towners" ride it. Your right it doesn't have to be up there. I'm sure big bear hates tourist's money. My apologies. I guess I'll stick to baldy for socal resort riding. You keep describing the old trails in a disparaging way. You really shouldn't do that. Almost everyone I know liked those trails more than the"sustainable" stuff they have now

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    ajdonner, I know you weren't calling me out, sorry if I came off that way, now gemini2k05, I think he got a little hurt, but I don't really want to offend anyone, I'm just stating facts.

    Maybe SS does need to build more epic trails, but they would if they could. Getting the existing trails permitted was a long drawn out ordeal and to even get those trails and the others I mentioned, it was agreed by all parties to close the trails which were so close to gemini's heart, sorry, but myself, as well as all parties involved, that that was a better idea. I'm not against DH trails, I used to race DH and still love going fast DH, but the agreement is better for the BB community.
    As far as gemini coming up to build trails, I was being sarcastic, those trails you liked weren't even within SS boundaries. Thats great that you build trails where your from, I may have even ridden them before, I was making a point.

    I'm sure the tourist dollars help up here, don't help me personally, but as a community, they do.

    The Skyline trail as it currently sits, is not my favorite trail, I personally think it could have been done way better, thats way I have been spending more time on the trail building crews to do it right/ better as its getting built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I was being sarcastic, those trails you liked weren't even within SS boundaries. Thats great that you build trails where your from, I may have even ridden them before, I was making a point.
    Me too, I'm just being a sh*thead. Don't pay too much attention. I just wish everything was better. If you reading this snow summit, I'm willing to pay a LOT more for lift tickets if you build real DH/FR trails!

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    The never ending story continues of people never being content. In so-cal there is no shortage of steep loose illegal fallines many off them shuttelable.

    Dean
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstepper View Post
    The never ending story continues of people never being content. In so-cal there is no shortage of steep loose illegal fallines many off them shuttelable.

    Dean
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    but none of them legal and none accessed by a lift. what's wrong with wanting more, it's what makes humans so great. j/k.

    but seriously, if there's enough demand and money, summit will figure out how to build some true dh trails, all the other bike parks seem to manage. i just hope it's in my riding lifetime.
    nothing witty here...

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    Big Bear old trails(outside Snow Summit property), are they still open to ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2w4s View Post
    but none of them legal and none accessed by a lift. what's wrong with wanting more, it's what makes humans so great. j/k.

    but seriously, if there's enough demand and money, summit will figure out how to build some true dh trails, all the other bike parks seem to manage. i just hope it's in my riding lifetime.
    It will be interesting to see what the Mammoth folks will do with the BB resorts if the sale goes through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    It will be interesting to see what the Mammoth folks will do with the BB resorts if the sale goes through.
    Who knows. Hopefully a lot. But Mammoth itself has kinda been slacking the last few years. No new trails, and some trails being closed (DC-10, Upper velocity, jill's jumps)

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    The Mammoth thing is kind of a rumor, actually one of the top brass from the company that owns Mammoth is the one who is interested, but still not a done deal.
    It really doesn't matter who buys the resort in terms of getting more or better full DH trails, the hold up has been in getting the permits to build more. A green beginner trail is going to be the next trail, and that is probably the one most needed right now.
    It's crazy, you would think that since there are already ski runs cut into the mountain that why should it take so long to get new trails? Why do other resorts seem to have no problem getting more trails? Who knows. There is a ton of money to build trails in Big Bear, outside SS, but the money is for public trails and not the private trails on SS property.

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    I feel like we all fell victim to a bait and switch by the FS. While I love Snow Summit and think they are doing the absolute best they can given the constraints, the old school DH trails were there for years and not shut down (my guess is because of the inevitable outcry it would have caused). Enter the FS with the magnanimous offer to allow SS to build real on property DH trails....like Gemini says, we got XC trails with DJ features. Still waaaaaay better than nothing, but a bit of a letdown compared to what I think many of us had envisioned. Seems like Skyline was hamstrung the same way...FS slapped restrictions on max grade, distance from fireroad, and other stuff that all but guaranteed that creating good flow on many parts of it would be difficult, to favor hikers, although the latter group has unfettered access to every other trail in the forest.

    Not meant as a rant, and definitely not a shot at guys like HJ who are trying their best to work within the arbitrary rules and constraints of the FS, but still somewhat of a letdown.

    Google Duthie Hill if you want to see an example of what can be done when cooperation truly works both ways...and that place is a small park in a suburban area....

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    Regarding Skyline, the FS followed guidelines set by IMBA as far as grade and radius of turns was concerned but a lot of the trail was not built correctly in my opinion. I feel the current trail as it sits, doesn't flow good enough either way you ride it, from what I gathered from meetings and before and after the trail was built, that was the idea but kind of got lost when the company who built the second section did not go as planned. My plan is, as I work the trails, is to try and make sure the trail does flow, although the last section to be built( at the first section of it, which I didn't work) was done incorrectly, something that can be fixed later, as pretty much all the trail can be, at least we have a trail. There are still good sections of the trail and its far better than riding 2n10. As far as the distance from 2n10, that had nothing to do with any guidelines per say, but rather an existing fire break where all the environmental impact studies had all been completed. I hear that in a short time, trails are going to built on the Northshore on an existing fire break also.

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    Welcome to Californication...

    Where you get screwed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Welcome to Californication...

    Where you get screwed.
    In Big Bear? You gotta be kidding. If you want to see "screwed" try San Diego county in the last five years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker View Post
    In Big Bear? You gotta be kidding. If you want to see "screwed" try San Diego county in the last five years.
    That's where the most getting screwed is going on where biking is concerned. I was referring to everything else. Taxes too high, cost of living too high, gas prices too high,... need I go on?

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    Fall line is soon to be re-routed, looks like it is going to be around three miles long, will be multi directional( climb and descend), it will intersect with Fern Trail. Fern Trail is also be getting a re-route which will remove that rocky section( which another trail has been built around it) but will also be more easy to climb, hopefully we all can understand the reasoning behind those decisions on those trails, I know some won't like it.
    It seems like everyday I hear of some new trail or re-route of an old or existing trail, good stuff going on up here!
    In regards to Hawgs comment, I guess we can't complain too much, we have pretty much the best weather and best, most diverse terrain on the planet.....I guess that's the price we pay to live here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Taxes too high, cost of living too high, gas prices too high,... need I go on?
    Yeah but just imagine how many people would live here if were cheap!
    buzzes like a fridge

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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcadbiker View Post
    In Big Bear? You gotta be kidding. If you want to see "screwed" try San Diego county in the last five years.
    Tue 'Dat!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Fall line is soon to be re-routed, looks like it is going to be around three miles long, will be multi directional( climb and descend), it will intersect with Fern Trail. Fern Trail is also be getting a re-route which will remove that rocky section( which another trail has been built around it) but will also be more easy to climb, hopefully we all can understand the reasoning behind those decisions on those trails, I know some won't like it.
    It seems like everyday I hear of some new trail or re-route of an old or existing trail, good stuff going on up here!
    In regards to Hawgs comment, I guess we can't complain too much, we have pretty much the best weather and best, most diverse terrain on the planet.....I guess that's the price we pay to live here.
    I think we pay to live here because like Hawg said it's the nicest weather around. There's no reason that we can't also have reasonable people in charge of decisions regarding public land, though. It's delusional thinking to believe that because you got one thing good, you have to simply accept another bad thing as some kind of balance. Nothing of the sort.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    Yeah but just imagine how many people would live here if were cheap!
    Exactly!

    If it keeps the population under control I guess I don't have as much of a problem with it.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ray View Post
    I think we pay to live here because like Hawg said it's the nicest weather around. There's no reason that we can't also have reasonable people in charge of decisions regarding public land, though. It's delusional thinking to believe that because you got one thing good, you have to simply accept another bad thing as some kind of balance. Nothing of the sort.
    This brings me to another issue that directly effects the Big bear area (as well as others).....who has the right to close the PCT to biking in the first place? It's my understanding that the system did not start out that way. So, WTF?!

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    So they are going to completely neuter fall line as well!!!!???? That nice chunk section was really fun....I am starting to see why people are complaining about the new school IMBA style trailbuilding...

  49. #49
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    Fall line is a mess, again a trail that is super hard to maintain and a big erosion problem. If any trails outside are to be built or maintained, they're going to be multi- use trails, sorry. You have a choice, if you don't like the trails up here or don't like the way the trails are going, you don't have to come up here, I'm not trying to be mean, please don't take it that way. For the majority of riders, both from up here and visitors alike, like how the trails are being built, like everything else, you can't everything.
    Again, the more dh orientated trails will be built on SS property once they get the permits, it's not like they are not trying.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Fall line is a mess, again a trail that is super hard to maintain and a big erosion problem.
    Is that a recent (as in this year) problem? I feel like every time I've ridden that over the past 6 years, and the trails around it (aside from sables) they've all been in fine shape.

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