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  1. #1
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    Anybody down for a cleanup on Ted Williams??

    Hey all,

    I was out there yesterday morning and couldn't help to realize what a trash pit that place is.(on the Poway side).. Anybody interested in organizing a "cleanup party" so to speak to help make the spot just that much more nice??... Its a cool place to ride, we should take some pride in it...Who's interested?????

    Peace.....

  2. #2
    SS on your left.
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    The Property owner which is now in proceedings with both the city of Poway and San Diego to get it POSTED would probably appreciate it to. This will finally allow him to prosecute anyone that trespasses on his land, and allow the Poway Sheriff's Dept. to actively police it.

    DM
    Pain is weakness leaving the body!

  3. #3
    Granny
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    Fugwatz,

    I'm interested. PM me and let's set up a time. I'm sure I can recruit some more bodies to help out. Sunday am works best for me.

    Dan

  4. #4
    Geritol Power
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    please

    post back the day and time you decide. I'll try and bring out a few bundles of trash and get a ride in too.

    Chris

  5. #5
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    DM-

    What do you know about the intentions of the land owner? I'm considering buying a house in the area and would hate to loose all access to the hill (especially to more development). Where can I find more info about that?

    If it happens, I'm also in for a trash pick-up day. I've hauled a few bags of trash out of there in the past but it's kind of demotivating when you carry out as much trash as you can and barely make a dent in the mess. A group clean-up is a good idea.

    SD

  6. #6
    Geritol Power
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    If they put up a fence

    then the illegal aliens will have a gated community and some prime real estate all to themselves

    Chris

  7. #7
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    Yeah, whats up with that? Early in the morning there is all kinds of dudes flowing out of the woods and off to work or somewhere. That is where the trash is coming from.

  8. #8
    ISO Gems...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    then the illegal aliens will have a gated community and some prime real estate all to themselves

    Chris

    You took the words right out of my mouth...

  9. #9
    SS on your left.
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    My info comes from inside info at the Poway Sheriffs Dept. I've been riding out there for over 15 years. I worked at he the local shop for years and the majority of our XC team trained out there (the backyard). About 6 years ago, it was kind of the beggining of the end. We started to see new trails carved all over the place, jumps being built... Nothing against you gravity guys, but you might as well have put in a chairlift. This actually caused the PSD to look into who the landowner was so they could find out what was going on. The owner who lived out of State flew in as he had no idea was was going on.

    The kicker was that he went out and bought a bunch of no trespassing signs to cover himself so he wouldn't be liable when someone busted themselves up. Well, that lasted about 2 days as every one of his signs were torn down and destroyed. So he has hired somone local to manage it and put in permits to have the property POSTED. The property lies on both Poway and San Diego limits, thus the 2 permits.

    Once POSTED, this will allow the PSD and SDPD to activley police it. I've been told that the first citation is a $1000 fine with no reduction in fine if the represenitive of the property shows to court.

    Maybe I'm just a dick, but I've never understood the rational to bring in tools, and carve up a huge piece of property that you don't own, and have no permission to be on. I guess I'm old school. My mom would always ask "is that yours", I'd say "no!" She say "then don't F'ing touch it"


    DM
    Last edited by Dan M; 04-23-2007 at 04:33 PM.
    Pain is weakness leaving the body!

  10. #10
    Geritol Power
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    Sad the way some people see things

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M
    ..., but I've never understood the rational to bring in tools, and carve up a huge piece of property that you don't own, and have no permission to be on.
    DM
    You can call me a dick but...

    So it was ok for you to ride xc there for 15 years without permission but it's not ok for kids to make burms and jumps and have good clean fun? It should have stayed only single track that you made for you and your friends and remain otherwise untouched until the earth movers come and clear it all for new houses.

    I'm not saying that it's good to trespass or deface and scar someone elses property but face it, that property is doomed to have concrete and asphalt covering it so why can't the kids enjoy the dirt while it's there? I did, you did and I think they should.

    By the way, I think it's criminal that people can sue a landowner when they (or their kid) gets hurt on the land owners property if the land owner had nothing to do with the accident.

    Just my opinion, Chris
    Last edited by Duzitall; 04-23-2007 at 04:20 PM.

  11. #11
    SS on your left.
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    Actually, we didn't cut any new trails as they were there. The main trails went to the concret pad on the top that used to be a radio tower in the 60's. BTW, I never said I was right for being up there. Just trying to give you guys a heads up as to whats coming in the next 6-8 weeks.

    My point being, it was kept on the down low. Several people used to ride it and hike it. But once you bring in tools and start building several downhill courses that can be seen from Midland school and the Ted Williams side, and you have people driving into the neighborhoods and parking to shuttle up. It tends to draw a lot of attn.

    Like all hillsides in San Diego, once a developer decides it's worth putting a Starbucks and some Condos on it. It to will be gone. Until then, ride it and enjoy it. Just what out for the law.

    I was up there last week and saw a few guys with a quad, pulling a trailer with a bunch of tools in it. I couldn't beleive my fricking eyes. low profile....

    DM
    Last edited by Dan M; 04-23-2007 at 04:47 PM.
    Pain is weakness leaving the body!

  12. #12
    TCB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    You can call me a dick but...

    So it was ok for you to ride xc there for 15 years without permission but it's not ok for kids to make burms and jumps and have good clean fun? It should have stayed only single track that you made for you and your friends and remain otherwise untouched until the earth movers come and clear it all for new houses.

    I'm not saying that it's good to trespass or deface and scar someone elses property but face it, that property is doomed to have concrete and asphalt covering it so why can't the kids enjoy the dirt while it's there? I did, you did and I think they should.

    By the way, I think it's criminal that people can sue a landowner when they (or their kid) gets hurt on the land owners property if the land owner had nothing to do with the accident.

    Just my opinion, Chris

    Donít shoot the messenger; I think you should be thanking Dan M for posting the information about TW.
    If you enjoy riding TW and would like to continue to ride out there, I thank you and others should get organized, start by contacting the landowner and see if you can work out a solution or face getting a $1000 fine, I know SDMBA would be more then willing to help, email SDMBA and request to setup a meeting among all the trail users.
    Who knows, this might be an opportunity to develop a Bike Park.

    PS: Duzitall, you are a member of SDMBA, right!
    "No matter where you go there you are" BUCKAROO BANZAI

  13. #13
    Geritol Power
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    bummer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M
    I was up there last week and saw a few guys with a quad, pulling a trailer with a bunch of tools in it. I couldn't beleive my fricking eyes. low profile....

    DM
    Ouch,

    I understand your point. I'm 50 years young and have lived in San Diego all my life. One thing I can say for certain is as soon as the fence goes up you can start the clock ticking and soon comes the survey crew and then the heavy equipment. Back in the day I had ridden motorcycles on most every piece of dirt in this town. Few parcels are left that are not either protected open space (good for everyone) or ripe for development (necessary for everyone).

    That's life.

  14. #14
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan M
    Actually, we didn't cut any new trails as they were there. The main trails went to the concret pad on the top that used to be a radio tower in the 60's. BTW, I never said I was right for being up there. Just trying to give you guys a heads up as to whats coming in the next 6-8 weeks.

    My point being, it was kept on the down low. Several people used to ride it and hike it. But once you bring in tools and start building several downhill courses that can be seen from Midland school and the Ted Williams side, and you have people driving into the neighborhoods and parking to shuttle up. It tends to draw a lot of attn.

    Like all hillsides in San Diego, once a developer decides it's worth putting a Starbucks and some Condos on it. It to will be gone. Until then, ride it and enjoy it. Just what out for the law.

    I was up there last week and saw a few guys with a quad, pulling a trailer with a bunch of tools in it. I couldn't beleive my fricking eyes. low profile....

    DM
    a quad, no fricken way?? i have also seen dirtbikes and 50's out there, no joke.
    i'm generally not opposed to shuttling (evnn though i rarely do it myself), but yea shuttleing and parking f150's in the top neiborhoods is killing that place fast.

  15. #15
    Geritol Power
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCB
    Donít shoot the messenger.
    The only bullit I have is the Santa Cruz one I ride


    Quote Originally Posted by TCB
    I think you should be thanking Dan M for posting the information about TW.
    Thank you Don M for giving us the heads up. I thought I was reading a double standard that's what ruffled my feathers.


    Quote Originally Posted by TCB
    PS: Duzitall, you are a member of SDMBA, right!
    No but I should fix that ASAP! I'm not afraid of work or political action

  16. #16
    Leash Law Enforcer
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    This is a disturbing trend in SoCal that seems to be contrary to what many other areas/states are experiencing with regard to trail building. I think it can be mostly blamed on the lack of incorporation of the land owner/manager in building trails. I think the only way any biker built trails will have any permanence here is to incorporate these people and build legally. There are certainly plenty of examples to point to where this has succeeded. There are also plenty of examples where not including the land owner/manager has eventually led to desturction of trails. Forget the blame game, the past is the past. There needs to be some organization and positive action. I emailed SDMBA not long ago about this very issue. I received a lengthy and positive reply from them. This is an issue that they are very aware of and would also like to see movement on. I am down to help wherever and however I can.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  17. #17
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    Fugwatz, I am sure you will be pleased to learn that someone has, in the last week, put up a fence and posts to help with the dumping situation, and also with the driving of trucks up and over the curb off the street (I wonder who owns the kinds of trucks that typically do that?) I appreciate the clean-up effort, but I am afraid it is a little too late. The damage has already been done (another brilliant move by our shuttle-brethren).

    Double-standard? Unbelievable. Riding existing roads and trails by DM, myself, or other walkers/hikers/children does not even compare to the arrogant and destructive trailbuilding that goes on up there. You would not be pissed that a bunch of idiots were carving up your property and making it look like hell? It is not a bunch of cute little kids making a few bumps....it is actually grown adults (i.e. should know better) acting like they own the property and can do whatever they want.......amazing.

    PS. The artwork/vandalism on the midhill rock is just swell......more great stuff!!!

  18. #18
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    i was just up there tuesday(4-24) and they put up a new fence in front of the hip out in the culta-sac where you park. Really hope that place doesnt get closed

  19. #19
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    Thanks for info Dan.

    A couple easy ways to keep the trails open- keep the quads off 'em and keep 'em clean. So how about that trash clean-up? PM me. I usually ride my freeride-type bike to the top... the other times I ride my trail bike. I tried shuttling once but the driving part got boring fast.

  20. #20
    SS on your left.
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    Nice!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQU8oniKJ44

    Just FYI all. This is exactly what I was talking about. Lets hold a fricking race up there. Then let's post it on the internet. Thats real fricking smart. I guess the land owner and PSD will have the names of some of the main players.

    Enjoy.
    DM
    Last edited by Dan M; 04-25-2007 at 09:39 AM.
    Pain is weakness leaving the body!

  21. #21
    Granny
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    Valid points,

    but I don't think the finger should be pointed solely at dher's for creating the current twp situation. Everyone out there is violating the private land, low-key or not. Yes, the graffiti on the rock is inexcuseable, the dh course markers, and all the jumps built in plain view near the cul-de-sac entrance. (a blast to ride though)
    Remember, there are parties thrown out there, paintball wars, people that drop off trash that would normally need to be taken to the Miramar landfill, and of course plenty of Mexican illegals littering the hillsides up there. Take a look at the next ridge over to the west, and there are 2 huge tarped over camps with trash all over the canyon. Hopefully the landowner, or the PSD will address that problem as well. The sage and manzanita will grow back to cover those horrendous eyesores the op was complaining about, and the migrant foot paths that link the hillside. I've been riding out there for 3+ years and have never seen any signs posted out there to stay off, nor has the sheriff I've spoken with concerned that I was riding my bike on the trails. So, I will continue to ride and enjoy the upper trails with the chunk and jumps, until told otherwise, and I do appreciate the inside scoop DM on what the city intends to do.

    Is it public record on who owns the land?

  22. #22
    Granny
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    Quote Originally Posted by EssDeeRider
    Thanks for info Dan.

    A couple easy ways to keep the trails open- keep the quads off 'em and keep 'em clean. So how about that trash clean-up? PM me. I usually ride my freeride-type bike to the top... the other times I ride my trail bike. I tried shuttling once but the driving part got boring fast.
    I agree. Shuttling takes longer, vs. when I can climb up from the bottom in ~15 minutes. I like to be loose from a climb before I hit the upper road gaps or the first kicker on Insanity.

  23. #23
    MTC rep for LPCPCAC
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    We are the new skate boarders!!

    When skateboarding became popular, all of a sudden it was illegal to ride just about everywhere. Streets, parks, sidewalks, everywhere. It was viewed as degenerate sub-culture that was full of hoodlums that were up to no good. It took years of work to gain a little acceptance and finally establish city parks. All that time, the brethren of boarders worked together to improve their image in the eyes of the public.

    Now take a look at the current state we face as MTBR's. While all of the in-fighting keeps us coming back to the post, it is doing ABSOLUTLY NOTHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM!!!

    Right now it is not about who did what to who. It is stupid to point fingers and do nothing. We need to all work together or lose this just the same as Flightline. I am contacting John and Dave over at SDMBA to see if they have taken up the cause. I plan to be involved and see if we can come to some type of compromise with the landowner.

    It does not matter where the trash or graphiti came from; illegals, vandals, or us. The fact of the matter is we are high profile and are being blamed for most of the current problems out there.

    I know that some of you feel the SDMBA may not be cutting edge enough for you taste but look at the very real alternative. We ARE loosing the battle here folks.

    I have been riding the fireroads up to the pad and the single track down the ridge to the south for 10+ years. It has only been the last year and a half that I have noticed a large change in the area. We are our worst enemies, not the land owner. Hopefully we are not too late.

  24. #24
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    Hey all,

    Thanks for posting your concerns and comments in regards to Ted williams, the weekend unfortunately does not work for me...But sometime next week during the day, I am making it a point to head out there solo, with a few dozen trash bags and clean up what I can....

    Im not trying to be a dick in this sense, but try to discourage anybody with tools out there to keep from bulding more Jumps.... Come on, I mean, TW already has a shitload of jumps, roadgaps, and everything else. Lets just enjoy what is out there already...

    See you all out there...

  25. #25
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    im down for a cleanup on ted williams what day will you do it

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