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Thread: Aliso at risk

  1. #1
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    Aliso at risk

    Sorry for plastering this post all over the place, but it's important.

    Hi folks,
    I have some potentially very bad news. As far as my snoopers can find (from inside the county ranks), this golf course expansion at Aliso Woods is a done deal already.

    There are some folks we are working with who are going through the freedom of information act to gain more info, but if you look at the turn of events from earlier this year to now, you realize that it is all too much of a coincidence.

    There are a growing number of us who think that this has been in the works at the highest levels since late last year or early this year and everything is starting to point that direction.

    What needs to be done from here? Action.

    On Monday, November 15th @ 6:45PM I need anyone and everyone who is a trail user at Aliso to show up at Santiago Oaks Regional Park HQ for the monthly trails advisory committee meeting. We need to be professional and in numbers and ask very pointed questions about this deal.

    There will be two people very in the know there. The first is Jeff Dickman, he is head of county trails and would know about a paved pathway being expanded to the beach. The other is Kevin Thomas, head of Harbors, Beaches and Parks.

    While I am not expecting a miricale informational flood to happen, I do expect them to take notice that mtn bikers (and all trail users) are pissed at this golf course expansion into our wilderness park. If it can happen at Aliso it can happen at any of our parks, and eventually will.

    Grant
    President
    SHARE Mountain Bike Club
    www.sharemtb.com

    That was a post from Grant curtis, the president of SHARE Mtb.

    I was going to keep this as a low key recruitment mission, but finding out this info increases the urgency of my plan. This is a modified version of an email I sent to a few people. If you'd like more info and would like to become involved, please contact me asap.
    BTW- my plan should in no way be construed as being endorsed or supported by SHARE or any mountain bike advocacy group (unless a group would like to put their name next to mine, which I'm happy to accept).

    Here's the (edited) email

    Many of the historically existing trails in Aliso remain off-limits to users despite requests to open them, and the absence of a Regional Management Plan outlining the viability and sustainability of the trails that have been around long before Aliso was ever a park. In fact word is, the RMP was delayed purposely because of the private (read that more like 'secret') negotiations with Tom Wilson for the sale of much of Aliso and Woods Canyons to Montage (which would result in the loss of trails and trail access in Aliso). I plan on staging a protest incorporating a bit of civil disobedience. My hope is that at least 20, 30, maybe even 50 people will join with me on this.... a ride / hike .......(edit-contact me for info on the details) ...it's likely we'd all get tickets. The potential fine..... (Edit-I'd rather discuss details of the potential repurcussions privately) I don't plan on pleading guilty and getting a reduced fine, I plan on fighting the ticket. I do this to increase public awareness of the hypocrisy, selective enforcement and laziness of the Orange County Regional Park managers in their management of Aliso and Wood Canyons Wilderness Park.

    If you are so inclined to do participate, I can offer information as to the time and place this will occur. Remember, you will likely be cited by the OC Sheriff's Department for riding the closed trail, and I, nor any of my affiliated groups will be responsible for any legal expenses or repercussions resulting from riding said trails, and make no guarantee as to the outcome of any legal proceeding resulting from this act.

    -Jeff Jarvis
    JJarvis@uci.edu

    I think a park full of polite, but outspoken trail users drawing attention to the hypocrisy of Tom Wilson and the Orange County Regional Parks management can do nothing but good. I for one am willing to do what it takes to save our park, and in the process hopefully open the trails that should have been opened years ago. Will you join me?

    edit- in receiving some feedback and thinking of some new ideas, I've decided that a multi-trail convergence should occur. Both open and closed trails will be used during this important protest. So for those who are interested in saving Aliso, but are not interested in riding a closed trail, I can definitely still use your support.

    "Little good is accomplished without controversy, and no civic evil is ever defeated without publicity."

  2. #2
    stay thirsty, my friends
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    I'll try and get that Monday night off work and show up. Thanks for letting us know.

  3. #3
    g c
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    More info:

    We are going to ride our bikes into the meeting (all street, it will be after dark and riding in the park would be illegal) from about two miles away. Bring a light (front or rear) if you have it.

    The reason?

    We've done this at two other meetings and it is painfully obvious who is a mtn biker and who isn't. So, I hope to see 100 riders at the Altbertson's parking lot on Monday the 15th at 6PM, leave at 6:15PM sharp. Ride will be casual so be sure to show up with bike in hand and shoes on feet.

    Grant

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    Hey GC and Jeff, keep this posted up in the highly traffic'd boards.

    edit: nevermind, i'll x-post it in the appropriate places myself...

  5. #5
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    couldn't it be tuesday. I got class monday nights. I'll tell all my riding buddies to go
    AJ

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    What are the cross streets for Albertsons?

    Quote Originally Posted by g c
    More info:

    We are going to ride our bikes into the meeting (all street, it will be after dark and riding in the park would be illegal) from about two miles away. Bring a light (front or rear) if you have it.

    The reason?

    We've done this at two other meetings and it is painfully obvious who is a mtn biker and who isn't. So, I hope to see 100 riders at the Altbertson's parking lot on Monday the 15th at 6PM, leave at 6:15PM sharp. Ride will be casual so be sure to show up with bike in hand and shoes on feet.

    Grant
    Woods Canyon at risk, really?

  7. #7
    Mmmmmm Beer!
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    No good Im in!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by g c
    More info:

    We are going to ride our bikes into the meeting (all street, it will be after dark and riding in the park would be illegal) from about two miles away. Bring a light (front or rear) if you have it.

    The reason?

    We've done this at two other meetings and it is painfully obvious who is a mtn biker and who isn't. So, I hope to see 100 riders at the Altbertson's parking lot on Monday the 15th at 6PM, leave at 6:15PM sharp. Ride will be casual so be sure to show up with bike in hand and shoes on feet.

    Grant
    We have to try and stop this!
    You wouldn't be in so much pain if you didn't ride like a dork!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    Woods Canyon at risk, really?
    Not sure what parts are at risk, but definately parts, I think up by Meadows etc...

  9. #9
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    This sucks!

    I read the article in the LA Times and couldn't believe that they're actually proposing this bullsh*t! They're thinking of closing off sections of a public park so that a few privileged can enjoy the outdoors of a private resort while we public trail users will be forced into even smaller parcels and increasing crowded trails. Wish I could actually do the ride, but my Employer wouldn't look to kindly at me (disciplinary action or even termination) if I got busted for any civil disobedience/misdemeanor offenses. I will however lend my support to any other means to protest this potentially devastating loss to public land access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fgrider
    I read the article in the LA Times and couldn't believe that they're actually proposing this bullsh*t! They're thinking of closing off sections of a public park so that a few privileged can enjoy the outdoors of a private resort while we public trail users will be forced into even smaller parcels and increasing crowded trails. Wish I could actually do the ride, but my Employer wouldn't look to kindly at me (disciplinary action or even termination) if I got busted for any civil disobedience/misdemeanor offenses. I will however lend my support to any other means to protest this potentially devastating loss to public land access.

    I have a completely legal option as well, but remember, this is just an infraction, no more serious than a traffic ticket. So, legal trail, or the closed trail, get involved. My new GMail account set up fir this is Jarvis.Jeff@gmail.com

    Thanks for the response I've received so far, and for the commitment of many to get on board to show support.

    -Jeff

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    Quote Originally Posted by zjchaser
    couldn't it be tuesday. I got class monday nights. I'll tell all my riding buddies to go

    The date has been set now for Tuesday, November 16 at 7am. It'll be just for a little while in the morning and then we can all go to work.

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    This is BS

    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe
    The date has been set now for Tuesday, November 16 at 7am. It'll be just for a little while in the morning and then we can all go to work.
    I can't make it this week. But keep me informed of upcoming meeting etc. I 'll get involved. Thanks for the info.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    What are the cross streets for Albertsons?
    Chapman/Santiago Canyon Road & Jamboree


    Tell a friend!
    "Get back to the hills, get back to baby where you belong." - P. Westerberg

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    Thanks to everyone once again who is contacting me with supportive words and commitments to action. Currently the planned date is the morning of Tuesday November 16, 2004. I have a couple requests to have it moved to a weekend. If moving it to the following Saturday morning would work better for the masses, and perhaps encourage our LA and SD riders to join, I'm happy to move the date. The meeting time would be fairly early and the whole thing won't take too long. This way we can all get on with our day. Hell, maybe we'll all just have to say our piece, then keep riding, and follow it up with lunch at my bar. Hmmmm......

    Feedback on this idea is reqested. Jarvis.Jeff@gmail.com to contact me directly / privately.

    Thanks!!! -Jeff

  15. #15
    120 pounds of xc sex!
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    yup

    bizzump
    Team X-poser is back for 2006-

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe
    Thanks to everyone once again who is contacting me with supportive words and commitments to action. Currently the planned date is the morning of Tuesday November 16, 2004. I have a couple requests to have it moved to a weekend. If moving it to the following Saturday morning would work better for the masses, and perhaps encourage our LA and SD riders to join, I'm happy to move the date. The meeting time would be fairly early and the whole thing won't take too long. This way we can all get on with our day. Hell, maybe we'll all just have to say our piece, then keep riding, and follow it up with lunch at my bar. Hmmmm......

    Feedback on this idea is reqested. Jarvis.Jeff@gmail.com to contact me directly / privately.

    Thanks!!! -Jeff
    following saturday= Fontana DH race damn tooooooo much crap going on
    AJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by zjchaser
    following saturday= Fontana DH race damn tooooooo much crap going on
    For Fontana, it's practice on Saturday and race on Sunday. The Aliso event is early enough that you can hit it up for a bit, then bail and go practice at Fontucky all day, then race on Sunday. I'll likely race Fontana as well.

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    Good job! Count Me In!!!!!

    [SIZE=4]undefined[/SIZE][SIZE=1] I have sent e-mails to my friends asking them to join the ride planned for 11-20-04 at 8:00am. I hope this turns into a BIG event. What about the meeting on the 15th? I would like to participate in that as well. Is that still planned for 11-15-2004 at 6:00pm?
    Is there anything else that we or I can do to help??

    Thanks!
    [/SIZE]
    Live to ride...Ride to live....
    The hardtail is not dieing...it's just going underground

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by seatstay
    [SIZE=4]undefined[/SIZE][SIZE=1] I have sent e-mails to my friends asking them to join the ride planned for 11-20-04 at 8:00am. I hope this turns into a BIG event. What about the meeting on the 15th? I would like to participate in that as well. Is that still planned for 11-15-2004 at 6:00pm?
    Is there anything else that we or I can do to help??

    Thanks!
    [/SIZE]
    Thanks for the support for our ride on the 20th, and no less important is the meeting at Santiago Oaks on Monday the 15th. We're meeting at 6pm in the parking lot by Switchback Cyclery and riding in. For those who want to drive to the meeting, I believe the meeting starts at 6:45pm at the Santiago Oaks regional hadquarters. For more info on the meeting, contact me, or log onto SHARE. Grant Curtis, President of SHARE is an invaluable resource regarding OC trail access issue information.

    My email is Jarvis.Jeff@gmail.com so feel free to email me with any questions.

  20. #20
    g c
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    Correction

    The meeting place isn't at Switchback Cyclery, they've moved. It is in the Albertson's parking lot at Jamboree and Chapman. Look for people on bikes.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program.

  21. #21
    g c
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    From the SHARE update hitting mail boxes later today...



    Montage wants to play through…YOUR parkland!

    In case you’ve been under a rock, on vacation or out in the woods on your bike and haven’t heard, deals are purportedly being made by the County of Orange and Montage to lease them open space in Aliso Woods.

    Did that sink in?

    The LA Times ran a story a week or so ago explaining the Montage’s purchase of Aliso Creek Golf Course and their desire of expansion into a full 18 holes (currently it is a pitch and putt with only 9 holes). The expansion would be in the Aliso Creek watershed and in Aliso Woods Regional Park open space. How much open space is anyone’s guess as neither the County of Orange nor Montage are letting any information out. However, Supervisor Wilson does admit to meetings with the Montage and this “concept” being entertained (some would speculate that this is being discussed much more concretely than pure entertainment).

    The biggest problem right now is that everyone knows that the Montage is very serious about the expansion, otherwise they wouldn’t have purchased the pitch and putt in the first place. However, the key is no information is flowing to anyone as fast as the money seems to be.

    So SHARE and others are starting to ask questions.

    This is a meeting you NEED to attend. On Monday, November 15th the Trails Advisory Committee meeting will be held at Santiago Oaks Regional Park. The meeting starts at 7PM and we are going to ride in from Albertson’s on Jamboree and Chapman. We’ll meet at 6PM and be on the road at 6:15PM. Be on time and ready to ride AT 6:15PM. Pace will be leisurely and we will be on the street the entire way, so bring a headlight and taillight. This will happen RAIN OR SHINE.

    Two people should attend the meeting from the county ranks that might have first hand information on this proposed project. While I don’t expect them to be forthcoming with information of any sort, it is important that they see a room flooded with riders so they know the level of our concern.

    The questions we can ask at the meeting MUST BE trail related. Please don’t come to the meeting expecting a map of the Montage or to verbally spar with a public official. We need to be polite, courteous and well spoken. However, it would be entirely inline to ask questions like:

    “Why would the county be so anxious for a paved path to the beach that it would be willing to give up our valuable open space?” (Trail related)

    OR

    “With the proposed expansion how many trails are we slated to lose?” (Trail related)

    OR

    “Why would the county possibly give away current and future trails for a paved bike path and golf course?” (Again, trail related)

    I’m sure you get the drift. The most important part is that mountain bikers are at this meeting in droves. If you aren’t on your bike, bring something that identifies you as a rider (event t-shirt, IMBA hat or something). Again, we want a room full of cyclists.

    If you have any questions feel free to drop a line to info@sharemtb.com and I’ll do my best to answer it. Otherwise, I will see you on Monday night.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by g c
    Correction

    The meeting place isn't at Switchback Cyclery, they've moved. It is in the Albertson's parking lot at Jamboree and Chapman. Look for people on bikes.

    Back to your regularly scheduled program.

    I didn't realize Switchback had moved. Thanks for the correction Grant. 12:30 @ the office still on, right?

  23. #23
    g c
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jefe
    I didn't realize Switchback had moved. Thanks for the correction Grant. 12:30 @ the office still on, right?
    Right.

  24. #24
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    im confused..

    So is there gonna be two different times riders are meeting? Once on monday, then on saturday?

    also, there is a race and a trail maintence at santiago on saturday, which would deter people. we have to organize against the man!
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbnjunkie
    So is there gonna be two different times riders are meeting? Once on monday, then on saturday?

    also, there is a race and a trail maintence at santiago on saturday, which would deter people. we have to organize against the man!
    OK, here's the calendar:

    November 13- Santiago Oaks trail maintenance.
    November 15- Regularly scheduled regional trail meeting in Santiago Oaks
    November 20- Aliso protest ride
    November 21- Fontana XC/DH race (practice on the 20th, but there's plenty of time to ride Aliso and then go practice in Fontana)


    I'm not aware of any other major trail events between the 13th and the 21st.

    FYI- the ride on the 20th is not just a protest / publicity ride. After we say our piece, we can always hit up some trails and make a morning out of it.

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