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  1. #1
    SUPER HERO
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    adventure pass , what for?

    how many people have actually ever heard of anyone getting a ticket for not having an adventure pass, i have bought one the last two years in a row but every time i park somewhere in anf i notice not everyone has them, what gives, do we really need them?

  2. #2
    kneecap
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    In the past, the fine for not displaying the "Pass" has been only the requirement of purchasing one & mailing proof to the authorities. Not sure if this is still the current penelty. I, however, avoid purchasing one if possible. From my limited research it seems the funds go directly to more enforcement of the "pass". ( More $ = more forest cops.) Not trail construction or maintenance.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneecap
    ..............From my limited research it seems the funds go directly to more enforcement of the "pass". ( More $ = more forest cops.) Not trail construction or maintenance.
    i haven't been on top of this topic for years but one of the main problems in the beginning of all this 10 years ago was that none of the dollars collected were earmarked for the park service but it all went to the general fund and used for whatever. Basically an outdoor tax more than a user fee (fine line definition).

    On a side note, i was late to a S.D. trailhead that had the "mail $5 in envelope fine" enforcement in the past. The parking lot was full and i had to park right next to the Ranger truck and i didn't have a Pass. When i got back to my truck 4 hours later, no ticket. I don't think the Rangers bother anymore since none of the money goes to them. Could you imagine if most the money went to them? We'd probably have parking lot cameras sending out fines in the mail.

  4. #4
    jrm
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    More importantly

    Quote Originally Posted by hikerturnedbiker
    how many people have actually ever heard of anyone getting a ticket for not having an adventure pass, i have bought one the last two years in a row but every time i park somewhere in anf i notice not everyone has them, what gives, do we really need them?
    Is that the revenues from the purchase of an adventure passes goes towards the mitigation of trial user impacts such as restoration, operation and maintinance.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm
    Is that the revenues from the purchase of an adventure passes goes towards the mitigation of trial user impacts such as restoration, operation and maintinance.
    And at least one bench!
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  6. #6
    kneecap
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well were that the case

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm
    Is that the revenues from the purchase of an adventure passes goes towards the mitigation of trial user impacts such as restoration, operation and maintinance.
    I would like to think that the adventure pass money IS used for trail maint. & construction, perhaps some is, &, as with most taxes it is not efficiently administered, mostly waisted / squandered.
    I've seen very little trail improvements, & certainly no new trails in my local Angeles & Los Padres forrests for years. Some quality maintenance is carried out @ my local Santa Monica Parklands, but done w/ volunteer workers, & I applaud their efforts.
    Maybe in other forest areas improvements are observable, not here.

  7. #7
    kneecap
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    Oh yeah..... I did forget the bench @ Pinos, & the kinda cool log piles on each side of that fallen tree up the trail a bit from your photo.

  8. #8
    Just passing through....
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneecap
    I would like to think that the adventure pass money IS used for trail maint. & construction, perhaps some is, &, as with most taxes it is not efficiently administered, mostly waisted / squandered.
    I've seen very little trail improvements, & certainly no new trails in my local Angeles & Los Padres forrests for years. Some quality maintenance is carried out @ my local Santa Monica Parklands, but done w/ volunteer workers, & I applaud their efforts.
    Maybe in other forest areas improvements are observable, not here.
    I was angry and rebelled for a while against the adventure pass. But I must say that in the Mt. Baldy area, there have been numerous improvements made with the revenue, including new restrooms that are actually kept up now, as well as area maintenance, and other things that were non-existent before the fee. I still have a problem with being forced to pay to use the mountains (i.e. nature), but I am at least pleased to see that I am actually getting something for the money. Oh, and they definitely do write tickets in the Mt. Baldy and the Wrightwood area, I've seen em doing it on several occasions.
    If you want to play with electricity, more power to ya......

  9. #9
    Ya, right.
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    I thought we paid taxes so we don't have to pay extra to use the trails?? I really don't care I suppose. My bud and I buy one for $30, then get the "second car discount" for another one for $5 more. So $17.50 per isn't too bad.

    On a somewhat unrelated "fee payment" note, there is a trial I ride once in awhile, and the Rangers want you to pay a $2 trail fee using the honor system. The rangers are real jerks here, even though I go out of my way to be nice and say Hello whenever I see them. And only 2 of the 5 trails are open to bikes. Anyway, I always throw my $2 into the box. Well, today I went into the "Visitor's Center" for the first time, and was amazed at how nice the building was. Nice ceramic tile flooring, etc, etc. So I'm guessing their tax dollar supported budget pays for that kind of stuff instead of directly to the trails?? Not that I expect the place to be a dirty shack, but come on. The place was nicer than my house. I don't know. I'm just glad there is an abundance of trails here in good ole SoCal, and I'm not stuck with that trail as my only option.

    I guess that's my rant for the month
    I hope you have a big trunk... 'cuz I'm puttin' my bike in it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kneecap
    I've seen very little trail improvements, & certainly no new trails in my local Angeles & Los Padres forrests for years.
    I don't see enough demand for new trails, Mt. Pinos (McGill trail) for instance sees little usage as it is. It's sad that we lost trails due to the wilderness declarations in the Los Padres.

    If you want to explore you'll find XC ski trails around the peak that make for interesting MTB rides. And BTW did you know there's another trail that leads from the peak down to that bench?

  11. #11
    kneecap
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman
    I don't see enough demand for new trails, Mt. Pinos (McGill trail) for instance sees little usage as it is. It's sad that we lost trails due to the wilderness declarations in the Los Padres.

    If you want to explore you'll find XC ski trails around the peak that make for interesting MTB rides. And BTW did you know there's another trail that leads from the peak down to that bench?
    The only trail I know, from the peak, is the main kind of road / trail from the adventure cntr. parking lot to the top. I'd be very interested to find something new! I would imagine by now, most of the McGill trail, as fun as it is, is under snow, uggggggg.
    And, yea, some new trails sure would be nice.

  12. #12
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    I never let a little snow stop me.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman
    I never let a little snow stop me.
    That snow pic is tempting me to get out there! Any special setup on tires or consideration for the snow other than watching weather reports, dressing warm and riding with someone?

    Oh yeah, I've gotten about 13 "tickets" in the past three years. I've never paid a dime in fees or citations. I've never received any warning or anything in the mail. I just get the psuedo ticket and throw it in the trash. If you read the back of the "ticket" it says that this is not a ticket, this is a fee demo project....blah, blah, blah. I pay my taxes and I volunteer for trail maintenance regularly.

    Later

  14. #14
    jrm
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    maintenance isnt the same as improvement

    maintenance and operation goes unnoticed by most trail users. Chances are that improvements to your trail system come from other money.

  15. #15
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    Winter - short ~VIDEO~

    Quote Originally Posted by mtbski
    That snow pic is tempting me to get out there! Any special setup on tires or consideration for the snow other than watching weather reports, dressing warm and riding with someone?
    (1) Waterproof insulated boots.
    (2) Go when its below freezing, not melting.
    (3) Flat pedals, naturally.
    (4) Balance - what can I say? Practice.

    I can hardly wait!

    http://www.vidivideo.com/movies/pinos/runout.avi

  16. #16
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    talked to Los Padres ranger ....told me that the program was suppposed to be 80/20 improvements to beurocracy ratio when proposed but has turned out to be 20/80 the other way. he said the problem is that instead of keeping the money and using it in district they are required to send it to Washington and then it gets reallocated later. he said everyone along the way takes a cut and the slice of the pie is slim when it gets back to them. and he stated that the at most 2$ they get back from every 10$ collected mostly goes for new signs(they keep getting ripped down and have to be put all over the place) and enforcement costs(read forest meter maid). he said the program completely stinks, should be scrapped in favor of just keeping camping fees in district, and had worked in the district for 24 years. i'll take his word for it

    and hey...wait until they get people conditioned to buying a "ticket" to use the forests THEY OWN and start to accept that line of thinking. how long do you think it will be before that 5$ goes up to 10$....and then up to 15$...and then up to ? no way!
    Last edited by loopsb; 11-22-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  17. #17
    kneecap
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    My favorite is: paying state comercial registration to drive a truck pulling a trailer (registration again) full of off road dirt bikes ( offroad green sticker registration required ) & paying adventure pass fee to use the state off road park located in the angeles forrest.
    Yes, I've done this.... Makes mountain bikes much more attractive, &, they can be ridden from your front door!
    Oh, I almost forgot the state/county gas tax on fuel for all the above, except the bikes of course.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by loopsb
    talked to Los Padres ranger ....told me that the program was suppposed to be 80/20 improvements to beurocracy ratio when proposed but has turned out to be 20/80 the other way. he said the problem is that instead of keeping the money and using it in district they are required to send it to Washington and then it gets reallocated later. he said everyone along the way takes a cut and the slice of the pie is slim when it gets back to them. and he stated that the at most 2$ they get back from every 10$ collected mostly goes for new signs(they keep getting ripped down and have to be put all over the place) and enforcement costs(read forest meter maid). he said the program completely stinks, should be scrapped in favor of just keeping camping fees in district, and had worked in the district for 24 years. i'll take his word for it

    and hey...wait until they get people conditioned to buying a "ticket" to use the forests THEY OWN and start to accept that line of thinking. how long do you think it will be before that 5$ goes up to 10$....and then up to 15$...and then up to ? no way!
    20%? In the GAO report some parks only got 12% of the fees back, the rest was gobbled up in admistrative costs.

  19. #19
    Contagious Xian
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    Print Your Own "Pass"

    You might want to read this one: http://www.edibleplants.com/advpas.htm about the Adventure Pass.

    Print your own "Protest Pass" for this voluntary tax. Good times...

  20. #20
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    I got a lousy ticket last year at Big creek, Six million people in the creek swimming and not a pass amoung them and I get a ticket. Drove down the road looking for passes saw one or two out of the 600 cars there and not one stinking ticket. We have always called it the EXTORTION PASS and maybe tickets are reserved for people the forest service thinks will pay for it.

  21. #21
    Team Fearless Descender
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    You know, I can’t say that I’m really a big fan of paying (paying again – didn’t some of my state taxes go towards this?) to park my car in often little used (Angeles Crest area for one) day use areas. I suppose SOME improvements have been made here and there. But, in the world of $3+ per gallon fuel, what’s a few more bucks, right?

    Well, MY problem is with trying to buy one of these passes. If you, on a whim, decide to make the trek to an area where a pass is needed, and say want to get an early start, then you are screwed trying to find a place to buy a “day pass”. If they want to make this work, and make places that require a pass available to people, then they need to come up with a better way of purchasing the (day passes at least) passes better. Heck, beach parking in always lovely Malibu, can be purchased from an un-manned machine. I often decide NOT to go up the “Crest” because I’d have to first track down a source for the pass, and then wait for the place to open, this assuming it’s a “...hey, what do you say, let’s head up early tomorrow morning...” kind of thing.

    Anyway, I rarely use places that require the pass anymore. Not because of the cost, but because of the inconvenience.
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  22. #22
    Team Hardcore Cornbread
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    $30 bucks for the whole year. Come on. I don't golf but those knicker wearing freaks are dropping $140 to play a round of golf. I gladly will pay$30 to the cause in hopes that some of the money betters the forrest. We don't seem to mind spending $30 on Cliff Bars, gloves, shorts, etc., but when it comes to spending money to ride this topic sure does stir up conversation.

    I just rode San Juan yesterday and it was perfect. Best $30 I ever spent .
    "Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul".

  23. #23
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    Yeah, I object in principle on the "that's what my taxes are for" grounds, but as DSDuke pointed out, you can get two for an extra $5. I did that this year. Makes being a despised shuttle monkey easier when necessary.

  24. #24
    "so pitted"
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    Big 5 carries them and you can buy online. Some places have the honor system set up. With budget cuts (more than half cut) from the Parks I've gladly paid the $30 and will continue to do so. If I could buy a lifetime pass for a few hundred bucks I would do that. Gotta pay to play kids. You don't like paying then go buy a road bike.

  25. #25
    dat
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    Adventure Pass

    I buy my pass every year. I ride the SGM alot. There is alot of enforcement on weekends and they check every car while doing trash pick up. The ranger in the SGM will give everyone a warning the first time. If you have your pass, they will come by and say "thank you for purchasing the pass."

    My trail is maintain pretty well. Very little bike tracks, besides mines. I never seen another mountain biker while biking for 4 years! But I see your tracks every once in awhile! (Who the hell are you !?! and dont you see the bear poo!?! ) About every other week, I notice they clear the trail or remove the landsides. I know the landslides happen very often and they do a great job of clearing it for me. Only once, I had to turn back because of a slide. I must be special or something to get this kind of service.

    I believe I am getting more than my money's worth. Heck, I pay like 50 bucks weekly to go fishing on boat with bunch of drunk jerks. Add another 10 bucks for a burger and a soda, and another 10 for fish cleaning. That is 70 bucks a week. So, I am not complaining about the 30 for the adventure pass. I think I get more outta the mountains than the water.

    Thats my two cents. $29.98 more for a adventure pass.

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