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  1. #1
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Upset Access to Anderson Truck Trail

    Anyone know the legality of the Forest Service blocking all (car and bike- we pedalled up the road later in the day) access to Anderson at the gate? The song and dance I got was that "Viejas" was upset over all the kids drinking and partying out there. The Ranger physically blocked our vehicle and ordered us to turn around. I thought there were private residences up there? Any help with this? I am also not happy about USFS personnel being paid on my tax dollars to be private security for Viejas...
    Last edited by sjordan72; 06-28-2008 at 05:56 PM.

  2. #2
    dft
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    good. tough luck shuttle scum!

  3. #3
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Nice

    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.

  4. #4
    i can't type the letter s
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.
    LOL. He's just messing with you dude. Don't believe anything DFT posts, it's all a bunch of crap. Forest Service can do whatever they want up there until it's challenged in court. We just have to deal with it.

  5. #5
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    LOL. He's just messing with you dude. Don't believe anything DFT posts, it's all a bunch of crap. Forest Service can do whatever they want up there until it's challenged in court. We just have to deal with it.
    Well, I suspect trying to hit me with her truck two times and pointing her Taser at me isnt allowed...We will see.

  6. #6
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
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    The ONLY legal access to the USFS land on ATT is by helicopter. There is NO LEGAL access to ATT by way of Puetz Road to the west, and the way you were travelling would have you trespassing on Capitan Grande Indian Reservation land.

    If you would like to help bring change to the status of ATT, or would like to help advocate for more trails in San Diego, may I suggest you join San Diego Mountain Bike Association.

    As far as your tax dollars are concerned, the County Sheriff, USFS, and Tribal Police have jurisdiction over ATT.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  7. #7
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Actually, according to the USFS website, it is specifically illegal to land a Helicopter on National Forest land. According to the map, the beginning of ATT is NOT on Viejas land. This leaves me confused about the true intent of the USFS in doing the bidding of the all powerful Viejas tribe. BTW, I am a SDMBA and IMBA member.

  8. #8
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.
    relax pal, i don't take or post nothing serious on any board. i shuttle, rideup, HAB, etc. but many many issues to this trail, access is always shady and it is illegal up top.

  9. #9
    Time flies...
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    Regardless of how many people (both responsible and not so much) do ride and want to ride this trail, ALL bikers are nothing but a nuisance to the locals.
    I know, I'm a local.

    I used to live at the end of PV road some years ago. Back then I could take my family, park at the pull-outs near the old trailhead, and hike down to the little waterfall. It was good!
    Then DH bikes started getting popular, and the trail got more popular w/ the DH crowd. Suddenly, there were cars parked all over the road, left blocking driveways, and all kinds of trash left under the bridge. Then some more disrespectful idiots started up illegal 'shuttle services', which just made things worse.
    I know, I saw it every day...

    Next thing you know, there are "No Parking" signs and cement cones all up n down PV road.
    That really SUCKED!

    And fyi- the rangers used to -always- close & lock the top gate at sunrise / sunset.
    There are PEOPLE who live out there, and they have every right to peace and quiet...that's why some of us choose to live like that.

    Seems like every other week someone's on here whining about how they can't ride wherever / whenever they want, and / or that other trail users should just stay outta -their- way...

    Just because you buy a DH bike doesn't mean your "entitled" to ride multi-use trails like a DH course. Go buy yourself a race-specific car /truck and try that crap on the freeway... same difference.

    If you want DH specific riding, your gonna have to travel, because there are no proper places in San Diego. Quit crying about it and DO SOMETHING about it!
    Join the proper organizations and get involved, or go somewhere else.
    No one else has any sympathy for you.

    If you're going to ride the local, legal, MULTI-USE trails, don't act like spoiled children about it.
    All you are doing is damaging the hard work that more experienced, responsible people have put into keeping trails open to bikers.
    How many of you remember the battles fought to keep Noble open to bikes...???

    With that said, I realize that there are a lot of people in SD that want to enjoy DH type riding, and even racing. I don't understand why you all don't join up, get professional about it, and create a legal DH park in the county.
    I think we all would like to see that happen!
    ...every day sends future to past...

  10. #10
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    Regardless of how many people (both responsible and not so much) do ride and want to ride this trail, ALL bikers are nothing but a nuisance to the locals.
    I know, I'm a local.

    I used to live at the end of PV road some years ago. Back then I could take my family, park at the pull-outs near the old trailhead, and hike down to the little waterfall. It was good!
    Then DH bikes started getting popular, and the trail got more popular w/ the DH crowd. Suddenly, there were cars parked all over the road, left blocking driveways, and all kinds of trash left under the bridge. Then some more disrespectful idiots started up illegal 'shuttle services', which just made things worse.
    I know, I saw it every day...

    Next thing you know, there are "No Parking" signs and cement cones all up n down PV road.
    That really SUCKED!

    And fyi- the rangers used to -always- close & lock the top gate at sunrise / sunset.
    There are PEOPLE who live out there, and they have every right to peace and quiet...that's why some of us choose to live like that.

    Seems like every other week someone's on here whining about how they can't ride wherever / whenever they want, and / or that other trail users should just stay outta -their- way...

    Just because you buy a DH bike doesn't mean your "entitled" to ride multi-use trails like a DH course. Go buy yourself a race-specific car /truck and try that crap on the freeway... same difference.

    If you want DH specific riding, your gonna have to travel, because there are no proper places in San Diego. Quit crying about it and DO SOMETHING about it!
    Join the proper organizations and get involved, or go somewhere else.
    No one else has any sympathy for you.

    If you're going to ride the local, legal, MULTI-USE trails, don't act like spoiled children about it.
    All you are doing is damaging the hard work that more experienced, responsible people have put into keeping trails open to bikers.
    How many of you remember the battles fought to keep Noble open to bikes...???

    With that said, I realize that there are a lot of people in SD that want to enjoy DH type riding, and even racing. I don't understand why you all don't join up, get professional about it, and create a legal DH park in the county.
    I think we all would like to see that happen!
    I feel for you, but fail to see the point in blocking "pedalling" access up there. I am not a downhiller and will never own a downhill bike. I attempted to ride up the road but that was blocked too, and rather aggressively. I guess there is always the argument of a few screwing it up for the rest of us, but unless an agreement can be made on biking access to the trail, people are still going to "sneak" up there and do what they want.

    There needs to be a consensus between the bikers who ride there that we need to self govern and keep the a-holes from trashing the place and making it miserable for the locals. It's a really nice trail, that I for one liked more before all the big hits were added.

  11. #11
    I <3 Dirt
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    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    relax pal, i don't take or post nothing serious on any board. i shuttle, rideup, HAB, etc. but many many issues to this trail, access is always shady and it is illegal up top.
    DFT, you don't shuttle you ride point-to-point.

  12. #12
    ocd
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    Maybe you should get involved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Anyone know the legality of the Forest Service blocking all (car and bike- we pedalled up the road later in the day) access to Anderson at the gate? The song and dance I got was that "Viejas" was upset over all the kids drinking and partying out there. The Ranger physically blocked our vehicle and ordered us to turn around. I thought there were private residences up there? Any help with this? I am also not happy about USFS personnel being paid on my tax dollars to be private security for Viejas...
    I am talking involved beyond SDMBA.
    Yeah give them your 20 dollars a year still (because you DO support them right, I mean they ARE the direct connection to trail access for S.D)

    But go beyond the SDMBA, take the time to contact your local representative (city or local council) all the way up to the Governor.

    Or you can spend that time online complaining about it.

    One route will at least possibly be seen by those who make the decisions.
    The other will lead to banter.

  13. #13
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    Here we go again:
    Apparently if it has gotten to this there are some that have continued to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of the surrounding home owners. There are always a few bone heads that think they can do what ever they want, that ruin it for every one else.
    This is what some of us on here have repeatedly warned every one of.
    You do not shuttle it:
    Climb untill you reach a large round flat section. This is as far as you should go. Anything above that is just fire road that crosses on to the Indian reservation. Once you hit the flat section you will see single-track that goes off on both sides. These are OK to ride they reconnect with the main trail or fire road lower down. This is the area that most try to reach and play around on before heading back down to the vehicle.

    You can only legally ride up then ride down. If you park at the top you are going to be riding on the Indian reservation which is illegal. What some of you don’t understand is that when you ride up your not going all the way to the Indian reservation property. You stop short of it, play around up top, and then ride down to your vehicle. This is a pretty harsh climb on a full blown DH rig but to get that sweet downhill this is the only legal way of doing it. And please if you do decide to ride this trail be considerate of others and especially at the bottom. Where there are houses present, that means no loud jam sessions with your stereos and no littering. We definitely don't want another "Billy Bobcat" scenario that happened there several years ago. This trail has had a lot of controversy for awhile now. And has been on the verge of shutting down on several occasions, due to the actions of some of it’s users. If you are wondering who Billy Bobcat is, well he is a guy who lives at the bottom of AT&T. Several years ago he ruined a large portion of the trail with his Bobcat. He was so pissed off at MTBRS that he set up boobie traps on the trail. He also went so far as to build a wall across the trail, known as The Wall of Bofus". Here is just one thread about this from way back when.
    Anderson Truck Trail
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 06-29-2008 at 03:39 PM.

  14. #14
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    I am talking involved beyond SDMBA.
    Yeah give them your 20 dollars a year still (because you DO support them right, I mean they ARE the direct connection to trail access for S.D)

    But go beyond the SDMBA, take the time to contact your local representative (city or local council) all the way up to the Governor.

    Or you can spend that time online complaining about it.

    One route will at least possibly be seen by those who make the decisions.
    The other will lead to banter.

    If you read my original question, it was that. A question. And yes, I am planning on making lots of calls. I wanted to see what information there was out there as I am sure I am not the first person to have an issue like this. I also find it interesting that the Viejas tribe does not want us riding on their land, but they have no problem letting us into their casino and outlet stores...

  15. #15
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
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    It's actually the Capitan Grande Indian tribe whose land is being disrespected and trespassed on.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  16. #16
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    It's actually the Capitan Grande Indian tribe whose land is being disrespected and trespassed on.
    Good info. Thanks. The Ranger I spoke to said she was working "in partnership"with Viejas. I'll look into it.

  17. #17
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    man we made a new path with our buddies 4x4....we plowed a bunch of bushes higher up...so we are above the starting point......we can park and still shuttle because all you see is the dust of us bushwacking.....when we park nobody can see anything

    out of my way....we are effing DH'ing....
























































































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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE,
    You can only legally ride up then ride down.
    Is this even legal any more? Boulder Pilot seems to suggest above that even pedaling up from PV road is not legal.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Is this even legal any more? Boulder Pilot seems to suggest above that even pedaling up from PV road is not legal.
    Well if we would keep a low profile and not upset the locals. Then the legality of it wouldn't be an issue. It apparently technically isn't legal but is only a problem when certain riders are disrespectful and bring attention to themselves that we are brought back to the forefront. They then start the process [all over again] of enforcing a ban on MTBing there. If everyone who rode there would follow some simple unwritten but well known rules there wouldn't be an issue.

  20. #20
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
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    According to information that I personally gathered from the USFS, the San Diego County Sheriffs Department, the Water Department, Indian Tribes and homeowners, the ONLY legal part of ATT is the USFS land at the top of the climb from Puetz Valley Road. The climb from Puetz Valley Road has one trespassing on private and water district land.

    Due to disrespectful behavior in the past,and present, the odds are not in our favor of ATT becoming a legal trail any time soon. More importantly, I find it embarrassing that a county of our size, with a climate that allows us to ride just about every week during the year, and the numbers of riders that live in this county, cannot organize and make downhill specific trails a reality.

    Until the current " Why take the time to talk when I can use the time to go cut some kicka$$ illegal trails" mentality changes, all of us riders will suffer. I've been a member of that group, and I've seen the results, and the negative affects.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Due to disrespectful behavior in the past,and present, the odds are not in our favor of ATT becoming a legal trail any time soon. More importantly, I find it embarrassing that a county of our size, with a climate that allows us to ride just about every week during the year, and the numbers of riders that live in this county, cannot organize and make downhill specific trails a reality.
    .
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
    i can't type the letter s
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    Boulder Pilot, SMT and others, there is a statute that can be used to try and gain the access that trail users had at one time in the 60's and 70's (It was a TRUCK TRAIL all the way to Peutz) called Revised Statute 2477 which basically grandfathers old trails used prior to, if I remember right, 1976, and establishes easements today on private land. This has to be asserted by an attorney who has the time and the will to do this with little or no money because the county (I've talked to them also) is not willing to bankroll this or assert it. Private landowners are calling this a land grab and Wilderness advocates don't like it either but from where I stand this would be the best chance to legally challenge ATT access up to 4 corners (not tribal land, whole different ballgame there.)

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    I think what you are thinking of is called a prescriptive easement. But it's not as simple as you'd hope. The way I understand it, to get one the public has to use the route continuously for something like 5 years, without the property owners making any attempts to stop you or let you know you are on private land. Then you have to go to court and prove it. All it takes to stop it is a few signs, even if they get torn down.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    I think what you are thinking of is called a prescriptive easement. But it's not as simple as you'd hope. The way I understand it, to get one the public has to use the route continuously for something like 5 years, without the property owners making any attempts to stop you or let you know you are on private land. Then you have to go to court and prove it. All it takes to stop it is a few signs, even if they get torn down.
    I know people been riding this trail for over 10 years....so probably longer
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I know people been riding this trail for over 10 years....so probably longer
    OK, I'll buy that. And the truck trail probably dates back to the beginnings of the US Forest Service and the Great Depression, so maybe sometime in the 1930's?

    But somebody still has to go to court and get the court to affirm the public's right to access; aargh, there's the rub, matey.

    Mouse Jockey's post is really intriguing, but I don't know anything about the law he refers to.

  26. #26
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    Easements would seem to be the way to address this situation. I've been informed this has been tried with obviously no luck, yet.

    Another proposal is in the works. One of the biggest opposition arguements pertaining to situations such as ATT is the arguement that riders do not respect the wishes of land owners, private or others. We argue we are stewards of the land, which some of us are. Then while serious talks are being conducted to try and find a feasible way that will allow trail users to use the trails, protect the environment, and address land owners concerns, some trail users get busted for trespassing on said trails, and one or more groups back out of the discussion. It's hard enough to get groups to the table. Once they leave, even for what I may consider an irrational reason, it becomes almost impossible to reel them back in.

    This is one example of a seemingly never ending cycle. Most people lose hope at this point, and go back to doing what they had been doing. Without seeing any return for their effort, be it great or small, we, the stewards, now lose these advocates, which makes it harder when the next situation arises. And there will be a next situation, because now there are more riders that don't believe that advocacy works. So these riders will continue to build illegal trails.

    Advocacy works. It takes a lot of effort and sometimes, maybe most of the time, it takes a lot of time.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Easements would seem to be the way to address this situation. I've been informed this has been tried with obviously no luck, yet.
    Easements haven't been "tried", they've been discussed. And through the discussions, the county, who is really the entity that needs to assert this, (TT MaryAnn Vancio) doesn't want any part of this. It's just a hassle for them. There are sympathetic voices within the county but to "try" easements requires court time with a win or a loss in front of a judge.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Another proposal is in the works. One of the biggest opposition arguements pertaining to situations such as ATT is the arguement that riders do not respect the wishes of land owners, private or others. We argue we are stewards of the land, which some of us are.
    What is this other proposal? PM me if you like.

    No disrespect intended here BC, but the "good stewardship" argument you are making is irrelevant when it comes to a legal right. IF trail users have a legal right, due to legal entitlement, be that through an easement or other mechanism, then the trail HAS to open for users. It is only after the granting of access to that trail for multiple trail users does advocacy, in the way you speak of, come into play. The Land Manager then decides who can use the trail. And advocacy in the vein of "we respect the land and play nice" is and should be used once entitlement is decided. There is a distinction to be made between legal right to the area and use of that area once the legality is decided. Legal arguments are prior to "good stewardship" arguments regardless of the attitude of interested parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Advocacy works. It takes a lot of effort and sometimes, maybe most of the time, it takes a lot of time.
    The advocacy you speak of does work in the right context.

  29. #29
    ocd
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    ding, ding, ding , ding ding, winner, winner winner!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot

    Due to disrespectful behavior in the past,and present, the odds are not in our favor of ATT becoming a legal trail any time soon. More importantly, I find it embarrassing that a county of our size, with a climate that allows us to ride just about every week during the year, and the numbers of riders that live in this county, cannot organize and make downhill specific trails a reality.

    Spot on.
    However, it doesn't pertain to DH specific trails, it pertains to ALL trails.

    La Costa seems to have some good building going on, legally. A couple of other N county spots but where is the rest??? I t is non existant because many people seem to talk about trail building, how much they want it, how much they support it but when it comes to support... what? where?
    Some can give time, some can give money, some can give both.
    Many can give one of the two but give neither.


    If I owned a bike shop that brough in profit from the sale of MTB's I would be lobbying in every way possible to make more legal trails. (this is one point) As consumers, you should really be paying attention to who you are giving your money to and what they are doing to improve the conditions. Is the shop taking your money, gving you te handjive and throwing in a t-shirt to make things great? Or are they actually spending time and a cut of their profits as advocates of the sport?

    Moving on...

    Look around people, if you are rolling on a 2k-4k bike or multiple bikes that have cost you 5k and you cannot give 20.00, 50.00 100.00 to *one... any...* of the MBA's or 4 hours here, 4 hours there of your time or a letter to the representatives or a couple of hours for a meeting here and there, then well, I would say the money invested in bikes is a poor investment. It is about representation and being seen and heard in a civil manner (people arguing with rangers, land owners, land managers and the like about questionable trails does nothing for positive PR)

    Over the last 6 weeks I have witnessed first hand the amount of beuracracy, the number of excuses and the simple pain in the a$$ that is involved with lifting a shovel to build/maintain/improve a trail in San Diego. It gets frustrating. I would go as far to say that if 1 in every 5 of the people who are using the trails. Legal, illegal, questionable, singletrack, downhill, fire road and the like... if 1 in every 5 actually put forth a valiant effort, that change would come a bit more easily.

  30. #30
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    what in the hell is going on in here?!
    It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.

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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mild beast
    what in the hell is going on in here?!
    Its the monthly ATT debate which never goes anywhere, with a little "where's the MTB Park in socal" talk for flavor. Just sit back and watch, its ussaully pretty entertaining .

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Chocula
    Its the monthly ATT debate which never goes anywhere, with a little "where's the MTB Park in socal" talk for flavor. Just sit back and watch, its ussaully pretty entertaining .

    OH yeah? huh.. you know, i did that trail a while back. was pretty good. lots of shuttle driving that day. Noble then ATT. was fun tho. worth it. tailgating at the put in at ATT after a long hot day of riding.



    my buddy gettin' it on a nice big kicker.



    you done the trail yet? well, here's the beta: you need 2 cars to run the shuttle. hope that helps!

    - m. b.
    It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.

    - Cicero

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Chocula
    Its the monthly ATT debate which never goes anywhere, with a little "where's the MTB Park in socal" talk for flavor. Just sit back and watch, its ussaully pretty entertaining .
    Ha,ha yeah really go her for numerous threads on this subject.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=6912597
    BTW Evil Chocula are you sure you're not originally from Michigan?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mild beast
    OH yeah? huh.. you know, i did that trail a while back. was pretty good. lots of shuttle driving that day. Noble then ATT. was fun tho. worth it. tailgating at the put in at ATT after a long hot day of riding.

    you done the trail yet? well, here's the beta: you need 2 cars to run the shuttle. hope that helps!

    - m. b.
    Oooooo, an e-veteran. Watch out! Yeah, thanks for the crucial info on how shuttling works .

    Yes I have ridden ATT and Noble. But I don't live in San Diego anymore .

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE,
    Ha,ha yeah really go her for numerous threads on this subject.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=6912597
    BTW Evil Chocula are you sure you're not originally from Michigan?
    Yep, pretty sure . Boston.

  36. #36
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    what means an "e-veteran"?

    JEEZ! i just heard someone in the office say ".. screw the pooch...". this day is going to be horrible. but fast.
    It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and to forget his own.

    - Cicero

  37. #37
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    There is no Capitan Grande tribe. The Capitan Grande res is shared ownership by the Viejas and Barona bands of Kumeyaay. That was their home until the govt. condemned it to build the dam and flooded the valley around the 1920's. Half the people went to Barona and the other half to Viejas.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushPilot
    There is no Capitan Grande tribe. The Capitan Grande res is shared ownership by the Viejas and Barona bands of Kumeyaay. That was their home until the govt. condemned it to build the dam and flooded the valley around the 1920's. Half the people went to Barona and the other half to Viejas.
    Which leaves us in the "middle" to ride AT&T without hassle, no?
    Actually there has been more of an uproar as of late from the home owners rather than the Indian Res.

  39. #39
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    Yep.

    Most of the attention and conflict of late has been due to shuttling activity. There is now talk by the residents of a new gate being installed and locked along the road on pvt. land that could put an end to it. Stopping the pedalers will be tougher, so just get a couple more chain rings.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushPilot
    Yep.

    Most of the attention and conflict of late has been due to shuttling activity. There is now talk by the residents of a new gate being installed and locked along the road on pvt. land that could put an end to it. Stopping the pedalers will be tougher, so just get a couple more chain rings.
    Hey I'm all for it...........STOP THE SHUTTLE RUNS! You're ruining this trail for the rest of us. And be respectful to the Home Owners at the bottom before even that gets gated off.

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