Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442

    Upset Access to Anderson Truck Trail

    Anyone know the legality of the Forest Service blocking all (car and bike- we pedalled up the road later in the day) access to Anderson at the gate? The song and dance I got was that "Viejas" was upset over all the kids drinking and partying out there. The Ranger physically blocked our vehicle and ordered us to turn around. I thought there were private residences up there? Any help with this? I am also not happy about USFS personnel being paid on my tax dollars to be private security for Viejas...
    Last edited by sjordan72; 06-28-2008 at 05:56 PM.

  2. #2
    dft
    dft is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,020
    good. tough luck shuttle scum!

  3. #3
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442

    Nice

    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.

  4. #4
    i can't type the letter s
    Reputation: mouse jockey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.
    LOL. He's just messing with you dude. Don't believe anything DFT posts, it's all a bunch of crap. Forest Service can do whatever they want up there until it's challenged in court. We just have to deal with it.

  5. #5
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by mouse jockey
    LOL. He's just messing with you dude. Don't believe anything DFT posts, it's all a bunch of crap. Forest Service can do whatever they want up there until it's challenged in court. We just have to deal with it.
    Well, I suspect trying to hit me with her truck two times and pointing her Taser at me isnt allowed...We will see.

  6. #6
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
    Reputation: Boulder Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,410
    The ONLY legal access to the USFS land on ATT is by helicopter. There is NO LEGAL access to ATT by way of Puetz Road to the west, and the way you were travelling would have you trespassing on Capitan Grande Indian Reservation land.

    If you would like to help bring change to the status of ATT, or would like to help advocate for more trails in San Diego, may I suggest you join San Diego Mountain Bike Association.

    As far as your tax dollars are concerned, the County Sheriff, USFS, and Tribal Police have jurisdiction over ATT.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  7. #7
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442
    Actually, according to the USFS website, it is specifically illegal to land a Helicopter on National Forest land. According to the map, the beginning of ATT is NOT on Viejas land. This leaves me confused about the true intent of the USFS in doing the bidding of the all powerful Viejas tribe. BTW, I am a SDMBA and IMBA member.

  8. #8
    dft
    dft is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: dft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    1,020
    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Thanks for the support. This is probably the beginning of the end for the trail, Mr Badass uphill pedaler. If they can close access to the top, the next step is shutting the whole thing down. By the way, I generally ride up, but after my 3 hour SS ride at Sycamore yesterday I wanted some fun. I hadn't driven up in over a year. Keep it real, dude. By the way, your pic is on your profile next to your fav trails. Do they let you ride up at Whistler? Wow...you really are a tough guy. A "freerider" who calls someone shuttle scum has no place on the trails.
    relax pal, i don't take or post nothing serious on any board. i shuttle, rideup, HAB, etc. but many many issues to this trail, access is always shady and it is illegal up top.

  9. #9
    Silence and Thunder...
    Reputation: xjbebop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,211
    Regardless of how many people (both responsible and not so much) do ride and want to ride this trail, ALL bikers are nothing but a nuisance to the locals.
    I know, I'm a local.

    I used to live at the end of PV road some years ago. Back then I could take my family, park at the pull-outs near the old trailhead, and hike down to the little waterfall. It was good!
    Then DH bikes started getting popular, and the trail got more popular w/ the DH crowd. Suddenly, there were cars parked all over the road, left blocking driveways, and all kinds of trash left under the bridge. Then some more disrespectful idiots started up illegal 'shuttle services', which just made things worse.
    I know, I saw it every day...

    Next thing you know, there are "No Parking" signs and cement cones all up n down PV road.
    That really SUCKED!

    And fyi- the rangers used to -always- close & lock the top gate at sunrise / sunset.
    There are PEOPLE who live out there, and they have every right to peace and quiet...that's why some of us choose to live like that.

    Seems like every other week someone's on here whining about how they can't ride wherever / whenever they want, and / or that other trail users should just stay outta -their- way...

    Just because you buy a DH bike doesn't mean your "entitled" to ride multi-use trails like a DH course. Go buy yourself a race-specific car /truck and try that crap on the freeway... same difference.

    If you want DH specific riding, your gonna have to travel, because there are no proper places in San Diego. Quit crying about it and DO SOMETHING about it!
    Join the proper organizations and get involved, or go somewhere else.
    No one else has any sympathy for you.

    If you're going to ride the local, legal, MULTI-USE trails, don't act like spoiled children about it.
    All you are doing is damaging the hard work that more experienced, responsible people have put into keeping trails open to bikers.
    How many of you remember the battles fought to keep Noble open to bikes...???

    With that said, I realize that there are a lot of people in SD that want to enjoy DH type riding, and even racing. I don't understand why you all don't join up, get professional about it, and create a legal DH park in the county.
    I think we all would like to see that happen!
    ...every day sends future to past...

  10. #10
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by xjbebop
    Regardless of how many people (both responsible and not so much) do ride and want to ride this trail, ALL bikers are nothing but a nuisance to the locals.
    I know, I'm a local.

    I used to live at the end of PV road some years ago. Back then I could take my family, park at the pull-outs near the old trailhead, and hike down to the little waterfall. It was good!
    Then DH bikes started getting popular, and the trail got more popular w/ the DH crowd. Suddenly, there were cars parked all over the road, left blocking driveways, and all kinds of trash left under the bridge. Then some more disrespectful idiots started up illegal 'shuttle services', which just made things worse.
    I know, I saw it every day...

    Next thing you know, there are "No Parking" signs and cement cones all up n down PV road.
    That really SUCKED!

    And fyi- the rangers used to -always- close & lock the top gate at sunrise / sunset.
    There are PEOPLE who live out there, and they have every right to peace and quiet...that's why some of us choose to live like that.

    Seems like every other week someone's on here whining about how they can't ride wherever / whenever they want, and / or that other trail users should just stay outta -their- way...

    Just because you buy a DH bike doesn't mean your "entitled" to ride multi-use trails like a DH course. Go buy yourself a race-specific car /truck and try that crap on the freeway... same difference.

    If you want DH specific riding, your gonna have to travel, because there are no proper places in San Diego. Quit crying about it and DO SOMETHING about it!
    Join the proper organizations and get involved, or go somewhere else.
    No one else has any sympathy for you.

    If you're going to ride the local, legal, MULTI-USE trails, don't act like spoiled children about it.
    All you are doing is damaging the hard work that more experienced, responsible people have put into keeping trails open to bikers.
    How many of you remember the battles fought to keep Noble open to bikes...???

    With that said, I realize that there are a lot of people in SD that want to enjoy DH type riding, and even racing. I don't understand why you all don't join up, get professional about it, and create a legal DH park in the county.
    I think we all would like to see that happen!
    I feel for you, but fail to see the point in blocking "pedalling" access up there. I am not a downhiller and will never own a downhill bike. I attempted to ride up the road but that was blocked too, and rather aggressively. I guess there is always the argument of a few screwing it up for the rest of us, but unless an agreement can be made on biking access to the trail, people are still going to "sneak" up there and do what they want.

    There needs to be a consensus between the bikers who ride there that we need to self govern and keep the a-holes from trashing the place and making it miserable for the locals. It's a really nice trail, that I for one liked more before all the big hits were added.

  11. #11
    I <3 Dirt
    Reputation: mealsonwheels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    709
    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    relax pal, i don't take or post nothing serious on any board. i shuttle, rideup, HAB, etc. but many many issues to this trail, access is always shady and it is illegal up top.
    DFT, you don't shuttle you ride point-to-point.

  12. #12
    ocd
    ocd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    520

    Maybe you should get involved?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72
    Anyone know the legality of the Forest Service blocking all (car and bike- we pedalled up the road later in the day) access to Anderson at the gate? The song and dance I got was that "Viejas" was upset over all the kids drinking and partying out there. The Ranger physically blocked our vehicle and ordered us to turn around. I thought there were private residences up there? Any help with this? I am also not happy about USFS personnel being paid on my tax dollars to be private security for Viejas...
    I am talking involved beyond SDMBA.
    Yeah give them your 20 dollars a year still (because you DO support them right, I mean they ARE the direct connection to trail access for S.D)

    But go beyond the SDMBA, take the time to contact your local representative (city or local council) all the way up to the Governor.

    Or you can spend that time online complaining about it.

    One route will at least possibly be seen by those who make the decisions.
    The other will lead to banter.

  13. #13
    Front Range, Colorado
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    15,895
    Here we go again:
    Apparently if it has gotten to this there are some that have continued to be irresponsible and inconsiderate of the surrounding home owners. There are always a few bone heads that think they can do what ever they want, that ruin it for every one else.
    This is what some of us on here have repeatedly warned every one of.
    You do not shuttle it:
    Climb untill you reach a large round flat section. This is as far as you should go. Anything above that is just fire road that crosses on to the Indian reservation. Once you hit the flat section you will see single-track that goes off on both sides. These are OK to ride they reconnect with the main trail or fire road lower down. This is the area that most try to reach and play around on before heading back down to the vehicle.

    You can only legally ride up then ride down. If you park at the top you are going to be riding on the Indian reservation which is illegal. What some of you don’t understand is that when you ride up your not going all the way to the Indian reservation property. You stop short of it, play around up top, and then ride down to your vehicle. This is a pretty harsh climb on a full blown DH rig but to get that sweet downhill this is the only legal way of doing it. And please if you do decide to ride this trail be considerate of others and especially at the bottom. Where there are houses present, that means no loud jam sessions with your stereos and no littering. We definitely don't want another "Billy Bobcat" scenario that happened there several years ago. This trail has had a lot of controversy for awhile now. And has been on the verge of shutting down on several occasions, due to the actions of some of it’s users. If you are wondering who Billy Bobcat is, well he is a guy who lives at the bottom of AT&T. Several years ago he ruined a large portion of the trail with his Bobcat. He was so pissed off at MTBRS that he set up boobie traps on the trail. He also went so far as to build a wall across the trail, known as The Wall of Bofus". Here is just one thread about this from way back when.
    Anderson Truck Trail
    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 06-29-2008 at 03:39 PM.

  14. #14
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    I am talking involved beyond SDMBA.
    Yeah give them your 20 dollars a year still (because you DO support them right, I mean they ARE the direct connection to trail access for S.D)

    But go beyond the SDMBA, take the time to contact your local representative (city or local council) all the way up to the Governor.

    Or you can spend that time online complaining about it.

    One route will at least possibly be seen by those who make the decisions.
    The other will lead to banter.

    If you read my original question, it was that. A question. And yes, I am planning on making lots of calls. I wanted to see what information there was out there as I am sure I am not the first person to have an issue like this. I also find it interesting that the Viejas tribe does not want us riding on their land, but they have no problem letting us into their casino and outlet stores...

  15. #15
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
    Reputation: Boulder Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,410
    It's actually the Capitan Grande Indian tribe whose land is being disrespected and trespassed on.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  16. #16
    Klunkin' Ain't Easy.
    Reputation: sjordan72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    It's actually the Capitan Grande Indian tribe whose land is being disrespected and trespassed on.
    Good info. Thanks. The Ranger I spoke to said she was working "in partnership"with Viejas. I'll look into it.

  17. #17
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,169
    man we made a new path with our buddies 4x4....we plowed a bunch of bushes higher up...so we are above the starting point......we can park and still shuttle because all you see is the dust of us bushwacking.....when we park nobody can see anything

    out of my way....we are effing DH'ing....
























































































    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  18. #18
    Leash Law Enforcer
    Reputation: Pinch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,099
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE,
    You can only legally ride up then ride down.
    Is this even legal any more? Boulder Pilot seems to suggest above that even pedaling up from PV road is not legal.
    "I didn't even use crutches when I broke my leg!" - Aquaholic

  19. #19
    Front Range, Colorado
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    15,895
    Quote Originally Posted by Pinch
    Is this even legal any more? Boulder Pilot seems to suggest above that even pedaling up from PV road is not legal.
    Well if we would keep a low profile and not upset the locals. Then the legality of it wouldn't be an issue. It apparently technically isn't legal but is only a problem when certain riders are disrespectful and bring attention to themselves that we are brought back to the forefront. They then start the process [all over again] of enforcing a ban on MTBing there. If everyone who rode there would follow some simple unwritten but well known rules there wouldn't be an issue.

  20. #20
    Single(Pivot)and Happy
    Reputation: Boulder Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,410
    According to information that I personally gathered from the USFS, the San Diego County Sheriffs Department, the Water Department, Indian Tribes and homeowners, the ONLY legal part of ATT is the USFS land at the top of the climb from Puetz Valley Road. The climb from Puetz Valley Road has one trespassing on private and water district land.

    Due to disrespectful behavior in the past,and present, the odds are not in our favor of ATT becoming a legal trail any time soon. More importantly, I find it embarrassing that a county of our size, with a climate that allows us to ride just about every week during the year, and the numbers of riders that live in this county, cannot organize and make downhill specific trails a reality.

    Until the current " Why take the time to talk when I can use the time to go cut some kicka$$ illegal trails" mentality changes, all of us riders will suffer. I've been a member of that group, and I've seen the results, and the negative affects.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  21. #21
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Due to disrespectful behavior in the past,and present, the odds are not in our favor of ATT becoming a legal trail any time soon. More importantly, I find it embarrassing that a county of our size, with a climate that allows us to ride just about every week during the year, and the numbers of riders that live in this county, cannot organize and make downhill specific trails a reality.
    .
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  22. #22
    i can't type the letter s
    Reputation: mouse jockey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    Boulder Pilot, SMT and others, there is a statute that can be used to try and gain the access that trail users had at one time in the 60's and 70's (It was a TRUCK TRAIL all the way to Peutz) called Revised Statute 2477 which basically grandfathers old trails used prior to, if I remember right, 1976, and establishes easements today on private land. This has to be asserted by an attorney who has the time and the will to do this with little or no money because the county (I've talked to them also) is not willing to bankroll this or assert it. Private landowners are calling this a land grab and Wilderness advocates don't like it either but from where I stand this would be the best chance to legally challenge ATT access up to 4 corners (not tribal land, whole different ballgame there.)

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,058
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    honestly....isn't there a law somewhere ...kind of like a "squatters law" where since we been riding it for over 5 years (ATT been open way longer) that now they can't shut it down...maybe someone with some law experience can expand this.
    I think what you are thinking of is called a prescriptive easement. But it's not as simple as you'd hope. The way I understand it, to get one the public has to use the route continuously for something like 5 years, without the property owners making any attempts to stop you or let you know you are on private land. Then you have to go to court and prove it. All it takes to stop it is a few signs, even if they get torn down.

  24. #24
    Glad to Be Alive
    Reputation: SHIVER ME TIMBERS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    42,169
    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    I think what you are thinking of is called a prescriptive easement. But it's not as simple as you'd hope. The way I understand it, to get one the public has to use the route continuously for something like 5 years, without the property owners making any attempts to stop you or let you know you are on private land. Then you have to go to court and prove it. All it takes to stop it is a few signs, even if they get torn down.
    I know people been riding this trail for over 10 years....so probably longer
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,058
    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVER ME TIMBERS
    I know people been riding this trail for over 10 years....so probably longer
    OK, I'll buy that. And the truck trail probably dates back to the beginnings of the US Forest Service and the Great Depression, so maybe sometime in the 1930's?

    But somebody still has to go to court and get the court to affirm the public's right to access; aargh, there's the rub, matey.

    Mouse Jockey's post is really intriguing, but I don't know anything about the law he refers to.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •