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  1. #1
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    3$ to park at Aliso Canyon? I'm not paying that!

    Actually I do pay that when I go. However, I see a ton of people parking outside the lot. Yesterday a green Land Rover drove around in circles for ten minutes looking for a spot. Many of these cars, and the bikes that their drivers ride, are very expensive so its most likely not for a lack of financial means that people do not pay. I am just curious as to why one would not pay to support the park, its 3 dollars.

    I just don't get this attitude, please enlighten me.

  2. #2
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    The same thing happens at the other wilderness parks too. At Whiting Ranch, people park across the street. At Santiago/Peter's people park by the Albertson's.

    I use these parks enough where I figured it was worth it to just get an annual parking pass. It's not a bad idea to support the parks you use.

  3. #3
    MTP
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    Okay, annual pass to national parks (I have), annual pass to state parks and beaches, now annual pass to local parks. Where does it end? It's already public land and publicly supported. If someone wants to "donate" $3 (the fee today, which will go higher), then they should have the option. Mandatory fees, no.

  4. #4
    Old school BMXer
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    Among many things, the $3 goes toward park enforcement...such as the aggressive enforcement that bikes don't ride at night, not the least toward dog enforcement (such as the dogs I saw running loose at the bottom of Mathis yesterday).
    May the air be filled with tires!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    Among many things, the $3 goes toward park enforcement...such as the aggressive enforcement that bikes don't ride at night, not the least toward dog enforcement (such as the dogs I saw running loose at the bottom of Mathis yesterday).
    Holy crap! I saw them too. It was a man and a lady walking two dogs. I passed them going down and the guy was holding their collars. It didn't hit me until later that he didn't have leashes on them. We must been going through there at the same time. Weird.

  6. #6
    Old school BMXer
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    Playing devil's advocate, the $3 is not required to use the park, only to park there...for now. Fortunately, we can use the park for free. Fortunately, there are other options for parking. Ever since they jacked up the price for El Moro, and there is no parking nearby, I simply go elsewhere. Voting with my dollars, so to speak, and I pay my state and federal taxes.

    I'm sure someone will chime in and describe how state parks aren't funded by our tax dollars.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  7. #7
    Old school BMXer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito Eater
    Holy crap! I saw them too. It was a man and a lady walking two dogs. I passed them going down and the guy was holding their collars. It didn't hit me until later that he didn't have leashes on them. We must been going through there at the same time. Weird.
    And I probably saw you going down the hill. My gf is somewhat of a beginner, so we spent a lot of time on the hill. Even still, she rode practically 95% of it! (but with lots of rest) We were riding the silver Intenses.

    When I came upon the dogs just before a turn on a steep section. The owners weren't in sight. I yelled out to those behind me "Dogs on the loose!" The one dog kept blocking my path and was stubborn to move, even as I was climbing toward him. The owners were nice, and said the dogs were ok....don't dog owners always say that?
    May the air be filled with tires!

  8. #8
    ss poser
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    were the dogs on mathis or at the bottom of mathis? i'm not sure about the middle of mathis, but i'm pretty darn sure that the bottom is county land where dogs aren't permitted even on leashes. it's my underestanding dogs are only allowed on the ridge which is state property & that's still leashed. as much as i love dogs, if we have to follow the rules, so should their owners.

    btw, blaster, you're L.B., right? let's ride soon!!
    can i get some pixie dust w/my gu, please?

  9. #9
    MTP
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    Oh, and I almost forgot the most offensive use fee of all: the national forest fee $5/day or $35/year.

    As for the enforcement issue, I don't need a ranger to enforce dog laws. A shot of pepper spray for the loose hounds does the trick...and for the moronic owners who don't know what a leash is....

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tink bell
    were the dogs on mathis or at the bottom of mathis? i'm not sure about the middle of mathis, but i'm pretty darn sure that the bottom is county land where dogs aren't permitted even on leashes. it's my underestanding dogs are only allowed on the ridge which is state property & that's still leashed. as much as i love dogs, if we have to follow the rules, so should their owners.

    btw, blaster, you're L.B., right? let's ride soon!!
    Yup, it's me. I was going to call you about yesterday's ride, but she didn't want to make you wait. We were on Mathis for a while. She did great going down Meadows, though - we covered Cornering 101.

    Yes, it was on the "down" side of the midway gate that says dogs are prohibited. You know that I love dogs as well, but I agree that they should put the same level of enforcement to dog owners during the day as they do with bicycles at night.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  11. #11
    dft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito Eater
    Actually I do pay that when I go. However, I see a ton of people parking outside the lot. Yesterday a green Land Rover drove around in circles for ten minutes looking for a spot. Many of these cars, and the bikes that their drivers ride, are very expensive so its most likely not for a lack of financial means that people do not pay. I am just curious as to why one would not pay to support the park, its 3 dollars.

    I just don't get this attitude, please enlighten me.
    maybe becasue folks already pay 40% of their total money in taxes!!! the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves. if taxes were like in the old times, people would be happy to pay 20 bucks a pop, pay as you go!

  12. #12
    stay thirsty, my friends
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    Ever since they jacked up the price for El Moro, and there is no parking nearby, I simply go elsewhere. Voting with my dollars, so to speak, and I pay my state and federal taxes.
    There's always the Ridge Park entrance which is a free alternative to the $10 (or whatever it is now) for the main lot at Moro.
    "With that said, until you have done a STR group ride- YOU HAVE NOT LIVED!"
    - dino brown

  13. #13
    mechmann_mtb
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    dude...

    that 40% of your income you pay in taxes doesn't go to parks and recreation!!! it goes to supporting lazy people with lots of kids, paying for the medical bills of the huge illegal immigrant population, and to paying the active and retirement checks for our elected officials!!! (but i'm not bitter)

    i personally gladly pay the $3 fee under the guise that somehow it keeps these small areas open for me to ride. i know this isn't true, but it makes me feel better.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mechmann_mtb
    dude...

    that 40% of your income you pay in taxes doesn't go to parks and recreation!!! it goes to supporting lazy people with lots of kids, paying for the medical bills of the huge illegal immigrant population, and to paying the active and retirement checks for our elected officials!!! (but i'm not bitter)

    i personally gladly pay the $3 fee under the guise that somehow it keeps these small areas open for me to ride. i know this isn't true, but it makes me feel better.


    I recently discovered that spot for myself. I came across it by accident because I finally decided to ride past the wooden gates/posts on some parts of the trail. When I got there, Ridge Park, I took a picture with my camera phone of the street signs at the intersection so that I could google map it later. The great part about that starting point is that you dont need to fight going up long hills right at the beginning of your ride when you are not not 100% warmed up yet.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito Eater
    Actually I do pay that when I go. However, I see a ton of people parking outside the lot. Yesterday a green Land Rover drove around in circles for ten minutes looking for a spot. Many of these cars, and the bikes that their drivers ride, are very expensive so its most likely not for a lack of financial means that people do not pay. I am just curious as to why one would not pay to support the park, its 3 dollars.

    I just don't get this attitude, please enlighten me.
    agree, but different from the situation above because 10 dollars for parking is ridiculous at El Moro.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBmtb
    There's always the Ridge Park entrance which is a free alternative to the $10 (or whatever it is now) for the main lot at Moro.
    I think I've heard of that. Where is it?
    May the air be filled with tires!

  17. #17
    ss poser
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    let's ride it this weekend. i'll show you.

    can ko handle i think i can & rattlesnake? (we don't have to do rs)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    I think I've heard of that. Where is it?
    can i get some pixie dust w/my gu, please?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito Eater
    I am just curious as to why one would not pay to support the park, its 3 dollars.

    I just don't get this attitude, please enlighten me.

    first, if it were an entrance fee, instead of a parking fee, then it would be a true universal user fee, and not an additional (and unfair) tax on those that don't live nearby.

    second, why should we have to pay an additional "user" fee for the public parks, but not a "user" fee for the public schools? they are *both* supposed to be publicly supported resources, no?

    third, does that 'parking fee' money actually get used in the particular park that it is paid at? does it supplement an adequate level of county support?

  19. #19
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    who does your taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by dft
    maybe becasue folks already pay 40% of their total money in taxes!!! the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves. if taxes were like in the old times, people would be happy to pay 20 bucks a pop, pay as you go!
    Unless you are clearing a high six figure income, I doubt you are paying 40% in taxes. If you are, you need a better accountant.

  20. #20
    Don't be a sheep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito Eater
    Actually I do pay that when I go. However, I see a ton of people parking outside the lot. Yesterday a green Land Rover drove around in circles for ten minutes looking for a spot. Many of these cars, and the bikes that their drivers ride, are very expensive so its most likely not for a lack of financial means that people do not pay. I am just curious as to why one would not pay to support the park, its 3 dollars.

    I just don't get this attitude, please enlighten me.
    I REFUSE to pay for parking at Aliso until those cheap b@stards put a drinking fountain in.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy
    Unless you are clearing a high six figure income, I doubt you are paying 40% in taxes. If you are, you need a better accountant.
    do you live in california?

    say you make $70k (not enough to buy an apartment around aliso): you pay 28% fed, 9.3% state, 7.65% ssi, so your marginal rate is 45%.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy
    Unless you are clearing a high six figure income, I doubt you are paying 40% in taxes. If you are, you need a better accountant.
    Add your Federal and State Income tax. Add your property tax. Add sales tax. Add fuel taxes, etc. If you're not at 40% you may want to reconsider your career.

    The idea of paying to use a public facility is an outrage. When our elected officials cease wasting our money on frivolous and ridiculous expenses there is plenty of money to operate our parks. Never forget whose tax money is being spent and for whose benefit.

    C

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    I REFUSE to pay for parking at Aliso until those cheap b@stards put a drinking fountain in.
    Maybe you should talk to you County/State/Federal representatives. They are the ones controlling how much money goes to the parks and they don't give enough. The park administrators are not there to make a profit; their mandate is to give access while protecting the part natural environment . They have to make choices like paying parking to avoid cutting on the services and/or access.

    Most of the money is spend protecting the park from illegal use and for rescue operations. Without the constant efforts of the volunteers, the trails could not be maintained and probably would have to close.

    $3 once a week, is $156 / year. It the cost of 1 day of golf or 2 days skiing.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Guy
    $3 once a week, is $156 / year. It the cost of 1 day of golf or 2 days skiing.
    And much less than blowing $3 a day on that Starbuck's mocha-latte-chai-non-fat-soy-half-decalf-extra shot abomination

  25. #25
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    If bowling was my hobby, I would have to pay for the use of a lane to bowl in at the bowling alley and not think twice about that expectation. Sure, parks are different, in that they are publicly owned, but as a heavy user of them, paying a bit extra towards their existance is not so bad, just a bother. Doing the payment form ritual and have the exact change handy is a pain.
    Hiking and biking to get away from man's madness and enjoy God's creation for a bit.

    -Dave

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