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  1. #1
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    $675 Tickets for Riding Singletrack Near Spring Canyon!!

    I was told today that MTRP rangers are now writing $675 tickets for those caught riding the newer singletrack which parallels the fireroad leading from the grasslands to spring canyon. You may have noticed the new "Trail closed" signs recently installed and apparently there are some endangered birds nesting under the 52 which they are trying to protect by closing the trail. I hope the birds don't mind the construction from the 52 expansion.

    Yesterday one of the rangers wrote 7 of these tickets!

  2. #2
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    Since the state budget is all F'd up, how else do you think they are going to fund the 52 expansion?

    Thanks for the heads up.

  3. #3
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    What a EFFIN JOKE .......... we rode that trail the other day it is really nice. I am sure those birds are still chillin after the fire last week about 50 yards away? Not to mention the bull dozer tracks all over the mountain? Wonder if they plan on replanting all the crap that was bull dozed and cleaning those up too?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by V2PRODUCTS
    What a EFFIN JOKE .......... we rode that trail the other day it is really nice. I am sure those birds are still chillin after the fire last week about 50 yards away? Not to mention the bull dozer tracks all over the mountain? Wonder if they plan on replanting all the crap that was bull dozed and cleaning those up too?
    I think it was inevitable considering the trail was never a legit trail to begin with and it was within the boundaries of MTRP. It was a great bypass when the fireroad was all muddy in the winter.

  5. #5
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    Please don't ride this singletrack

    I heard the ranger did issue some tickets. (seven?). MTRP staff could be frustrated that someone would remove dead fall placed in the closed trail and people are riding past the closed trail sign. The area has sensitive species and the trail will remain closed and staff will continue to issue tickets.
    As far as I can tell, once you're south of 52 you're in preserve land. We're working with the park to improve communication and obviously we have a way to go. Please don't ride this closed section. Don't be a butt head and remove deadfall from the trail. Don't ride trails in the preserve that are marked closed.
    It would be great if we had an alternative way into Spring Canyon when the road is wet but a trail 200 feet west of the easement is not the solution.
    Mountain bike relations are stretched in the park right now. Don't make it worse by pissing Mel off. As you see, some parks don't have the time to enforce trail closures but if provoked will find the time needed.
    Last edited by Gardner; 09-20-2008 at 06:54 AM.
    SDMBA Liaison, Sycamore Canyon/Goodan Ranch Open Space Preserves

  6. #6
    ocd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardner
    It would be great if we had an alternative way into Spring Canyon when the road is wet but a trail 200 feet west of the easement is not the solution.
    .
    That little piece of trail is an incredible way to prevent horses and bikes from being on the same trail. I ride there a lot. It is the perfect piece to go up and out of the way when equestrians are on the main "trail". Go out there on the weekend, 1/2 mile from the horse staging area and you will pretty much see horses on the mail fire road.

    No warning from Mel?

    No warning to the SDMBA or asking them to convey the message?

    No warnings on the kiosk signs?

    Just one day a sign is up and tickets are being issued?

    I would very much like to hear both sides of the story but in the end, seems like a pretty good revenue generator for the park.

  7. #7
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    Why don't the government just make it an even $1 million fine? Same for littering...

    These irrational fines remind me of the old movie "Repo Man" when Harry Dean Stanton is driving down skid row and commenting with contempt about the bums, something like,"I wonder how much they owe? if they were only a way of making them all pay."

  8. #8
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    they don;t need to issues warnings. We all know that trail was illegal. Do the police need to warn people before they speed? no. the people know it is illegal

  9. #9
    ocd
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    nah, not at all

    Quote Originally Posted by DukeNeverwinter
    they don;t need to issues warnings. We all know that trail was illegal. Do the police need to warn people before they speed? no. the people know it is illegal
    How do "the people know" it is illegal?

    I have spoke to a ton of people in mission trails that it is their first time there. They read about it on line, someone told them about it etc. They are not familiar with the trails, what is or is not legal, especially for bikes. Many/most of those who ride beyond park limits and ride connecting trails may know they are in the wrong but the average joe who pops out tot he grasslands and sees that trail can be very much guilty of just being clueless.

    Working to educate the trails users is much more productive than just going straight for their wallets.

    By the way, yes police need to warn people before they speed. This is why speed limit signs are posted. Speaking of. One could sit on Father Junipero Serra trail and target speeding cars and pull in at least one to two an hour for exceeding the 15MPH speed limit.

  10. #10
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    I apologize. coming from a work environment where EVERYBODY wants a warning, it is hard to sympathize. You can;t give every one a warning. This is because all you will ever give is warnings. at some point you just have to start writing cites. It will piss people off, but it has to be done. And yes I knew it was illegal when I started riding out there even before I knew MTBR existed. It isn't listed on any maps for no reason. If you look at the mission trails map that they give out It isn't on it. wonder why.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd
    How do "the people know" it is illegal?

    I have spoke to a ton of people in mission trails that it is their first time there. They read about it on line, someone told them about it etc. They are not familiar with the trails, what is or is not legal, especially for bikes. Many/most of those who ride beyond park limits and ride connecting trails may know they are in the wrong but the average joe who pops out tot he grasslands and sees that trail can be very much guilty of just being clueless.

    Working to educate the trails users is much more productive than just going straight for their wallets.

    By the way, yes police need to warn people before they speed. This is why speed limit signs are posted. Speaking of. One could sit on Father Junipero Serra trail and target speeding cars and pull in at least one to two an hour for exceeding the 15MPH speed limit.
    Hey ocd, we aren't talking about all of the trails north of the 52 being closed. It's just the short singletrack section west of the fireroad leading to Spring Canyon. The trail is closed from the grasslands area to just north of the 52. The trail closure is marked on the north and south end of the closure with very obvious signs. Trails north of the 52 are not marked closed, but we all ride them at our own risk.

  12. #12
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    I no longer live in San Diego, but I used to. From '89 through 2002, Mission Trails was the area I rode most often. In the "old days", the most you had to worry about was getting busted by military police on the fireroads leading to the Miramar base. But I digress...

    This horsesh!t about closing a trail to protect some endangered species bird is typical of the liberal do-gooders out there. Let's see now, the birds are nesting UNDER A HIGHWAY OVERPASS, for crying out loud. Thousands upon thousands of cars rumbling by overhead, polllution, trash thrown out windows. Yet, somehow, bicycles going by underneath is going to wreak havoc on these precious birds and, what, throw the entire ecosystem out of balance and cause the end of the world?

    You'd think if the bird was so sensitive to noise and humans, it would've picked a more secluded spot. It wouldn't be hard to do, considering the vast expanses of land right nearby.

    And if San Diego is so concerned over the ability of these birds to reproduce, why aren't they closing down the 52 at the overpass? For that matter, why didn't they put the brakes on all the development in that area and around Penasquitos years ago?

    Oh, wait - I know. The developers carry a big stick and, well, everyone wants to live in paradise, right?

    All this is about is a city park trying to avoid problems from the whackjobs at the Sierra Club. That and bringing in some extra money with exorbitant fines.

  13. #13
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    Haven't been out to MTRP in the past 3 weeks, but we're talking about the singletrack just to the left of the road as you're headed out to the base?

    That's the only way to make the ride bearable. The fireroad is boring!

  14. #14
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    Government and Politicians make mistakes. But they are answerable to the people, the people just seem to forget that fact a lot and get apathetic, it's a hell of a lot easier than forming committees getting petitions signed and lobbying. Anyway, I for one call BS on the six hundred and seventy five dollar tickets, as in, I don't for a minute believe the amount. Maybe 6.75?

    I never apologize. I'm sorry, but that's just the way I am.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanotherbikegeek
    This horsesh!t about closing a trail to protect some endangered species bird is typical of the liberal do-gooders out there. Let's see now, the birds are nesting UNDER A HIGHWAY OVERPASS, for crying out loud. Yet, somehow, bicycles going by underneath is going to wreak havoc on these precious birds and, what, throw the entire ecosystem out of balance and cause the end of the world?

    You'd think if the bird was so sensitive to noise and humans, it would've picked a more secluded spot. It wouldn't be hard to do, considering the vast expanses of land right nearby.

    All this is about is a city park trying to avoid problems from the whackjobs at the Sierra Club. That and bringing in some extra money with exorbitant fines.
    I agree and I'll add that when Caltrans widened the 94 at Rancho they spent $1.5 million on a plywood wall to protect a bird from being irritated by the construction NEXT TO A FLIPPING HIGHWAY

    All the fence did was waste resources, money and provided a safe village for the homeless drunks and druggys.

    I am an endangered species too None the less, I will honor the closure.
    Last edited by Duzitall; 09-21-2008 at 10:19 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duzitall
    illigal immigrants remain there unharrassed spreading trash and deficating in watersheds but I'll stop now.
    Not entirely true.
    The suspension of your bike sucks if it's different than mine. Really. It sucks. Big time.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot
    Not entirely true.
    OK, you are correct. I should have said largely unharrassed by the authorities. Instead I will just delete the line about homeless drunks, druggys and illegals. That line was off topic anyway. Sorry, I'm just irritated today because I have to work and won't get to ride

  18. #18
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    Everybody is getting worked up over nothing. The trail that was closed was nothing more than a duplicate of existing trail. This is a short section of trail on the south side of the 52 and NOT the single track extending into Spring Canyon.
    We have seen this before in heavily used areas. They are attempting to preserve the land. Is it perfect? No but it helps ensure the trails don't get too out of hand. PQ has put in split rail fence at the east end to keep people on the main trail. Over time that trail kept migrating south, up the hill. In Hodges, the Bernardo trail rock gardens were closes because it was listed as a duplicate trail to the main fire road.
    Yes the 50 yard section of fire road heading towards the 52 sucks when it rains but you need to man up! Either don't ride when it is wet or ride through the water and mud on the existing trail. Never,ever cut a new trail to avoid a hazard, especially in a governed park. How many of you saw, first hand, the damage inflicted in Sycamore Canyon, along Santee Lakes from people not wanting to get dirty? Its mountain biking for christs sake!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusthuffer
    Anyway, I for one call BS on the six hundred and seventy five dollar tickets, as in, I don't for a minute believe the amount. Maybe 6.75?
    If you don't believe me call Mel directly. His number is here. I'd love to be wrong about a $675 ticket.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy
    Everybody is getting worked up over nothing. The trail that was closed was nothing more than a duplicate of existing trail. This is a short section of trail on the south side of the 52 and NOT the single track extending into Spring Canyon.
    We have seen this before in heavily used areas. They are attempting to preserve the land. Is it perfect? No but it helps ensure the trails don't get too out of hand. PQ has put in split rail fence at the east end to keep people on the main trail. Over time that trail kept migrating south, up the hill. In Hodges, the Bernardo trail rock gardens were closes because it was listed as a duplicate trail to the main fire road.
    Yes the 50 yard section of fire road heading towards the 52 sucks when it rains but you need to man up! Either don't ride when it is wet or ride through the water and mud on the existing trail. Never,ever cut a new trail to avoid a hazard, especially in a governed park. How many of you saw, first hand, the damage inflicted in Sycamore Canyon, along Santee Lakes from people not wanting to get dirty? Its mountain biking for christs sake!
    Couldn't agree more banker, but that fireroad sucks in the winter. The clay clings to your tires like nothing else.

  21. #21
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    Anger management

    I was just out there today, and although I often consider myself a greeny at heart, a lot of this reeks of overmanagement and an anti-trail mentality. The bird excuse is silly. The sensitive habitat sign doesn't make sense. The place just burned up, and it will quickly regenerate and burn again.

    That new section of single track was a good alternative because it allowed bike to avoid horses, as well as improving the park experience. Most of the San Diego parks seems to have this mentality of why can't everyone just be happy traveling together on a big wide truck road. Why would we need any more trails? Well, that's the parks name isn't it? Mission Trails?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mealsonwheels
    Couldn't agree more banker, but that fireroad sucks in the winter. The clay clings to your tires like nothing else.
    First off, this is not directed specifically at you as I doubt you created the trail, but trail is trail, fire road or not. If the clay clings to your bike, hike (gasp), yes hike through the offending areas or stay out. If these options seem a little too extreme, ask yourself why you need to ride in an area that for one to two months is unridable. Look at other areas of the country that have rain, snow, eternal darkness (anywhere north of the arctic circle) and be happy for what we have. 10+ months of near perfect weather punctuated by 2 iffy months at worst. There are so many options and other locations during this time. Mountain Bike Bill used to have a great wet weather resource page. While it was not official it did a nice job of spelling out where are the best places to ride. The fact of the matter is San Diego is full of clay. How did you think the missions and other adobe buildings were created? We just need to give the ground the time it needs to recover after a rain. Think cross training - running, road riding, surfing (winter storm swells), there are tons of possibilites.
    Now I am getting way off topic - bottom line, there is no need for a fifty yard duplicate trail that avoids a hazard that makes mountain biking, well, dirty mountain biking. As long as you take time to clean your mount at home, there is nothing wrong with a little dirt.

    Thanks for the ear.

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    ditto ^^^^^. if you don't want your bike to get wet/dirty don't ride it.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy
    First off, this is not directed specifically at you as I doubt you created the trail, but trail is trail, fire road or not. If the clay clings to your bike, hike (gasp), yes hike through the offending areas or stay out. If these options seem a little too extreme, ask yourself why you need to ride in an area that for one to two months is unridable. Look at other areas of the country that have rain, snow, eternal darkness (anywhere north of the arctic circle) and be happy for what we have. 10+ months of near perfect weather punctuated by 2 iffy months at worst. There are so many options and other locations during this time. Mountain Bike Bill used to have a great wet weather resource page. While it was not official it did a nice job of spelling out where are the best places to ride. The fact of the matter is San Diego is full of clay. How did you think the missions and other adobe buildings were created? We just need to give the ground the time it needs to recover after a rain. Think cross training - running, road riding, surfing (winter storm swells), there are tons of possibilites.
    Now I am getting way off topic - bottom line, there is no need for a fifty yard duplicate trail that avoids a hazard that makes mountain biking, well, dirty mountain biking. As long as you take time to clean your mount at home, there is nothing wrong with a little dirt.

    Thanks for the ear.
    I don't mind getting my bike dirty, but clay which collects on tires, frame and fork to the point that wheels won't spin isn't my idea of fun. I guess other people here enjoy it. IMHO there is very little clay north of the 52, but from the grasslands to the 52 it's horrendous in the winter. The singletrack was a great way to bypass the clay, but it was inevitable that the trail would eventually be closed. Fortunately there are several ways to get into spring without going through that section. Like you said, I prefer other trails in the winter that drain better and are comprised of DG. I just can't get into the roadie thing.

  25. #25
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    IMO ..... it has nothing to do with the clay. The fire road sucks ..... BOTTOM LINE. The single track was more fun and a PERFECT way to avoid horses and hikers. Its closed now end of story i guess. I had NO CLUE it was an ILLEGAL TRACK until i saw the sign. Now that the sign is posted rider beware. Now for the million $$$$ question. How far past the 52 can you LEGALLY RIDE? I know the single track is closed from the grass land to just north of the 52. Then north of the 52 there is no closed sign? So is it ok to get on that single track north of the 52?

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