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  1. #1
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    According to this article, we can't even taste the different about a certain threshold of hoppyness, and Pliny and other craft brew yucky bitter beers are waaaay about that threshold. As a hop-hater, I agree.

    Discuss!



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  2. #2
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    Taste and smell are closely related, but not the same thing.

    I'm not a huge fan of over the top IPA's (Imperial, double, triple, whatever IPA), but do appreciate them for what they are from time to time and do know enough to say that the smell of a Pliny is quite different than the smell of a Hop Stoopid, even though they are both way above the threshold of 60 IBU's mentioned in the article.

    Carry on and drink what you like, be it water, milk, GU or Pliny!

  3. #3
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    IBU rating does not=flavor. People like Pliny for the way it tastes, not it's IBU rating.

    Saying that...I do agree somewhat with the article's premise that there is a bit of an over infatuation with hops but at the same time, the market doesn't lie. It's like SF Real Estate, you can say it's overvalued but the demand is real.

  4. #4
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    Well, I'll, uh, um, you know what Menso? I mean, uh, that's an outrage, a travesty of a mockery, of an injustice. I've spent a LOT of time on these forums convincing myself that I was so very special for having access to Pliney, now you tell me it was largely due to mass hype? I wanna be a beer snob damn it! I want to I want to I want to !!!

    Fine, I'll just go get myself a fixie, some horn rimmed glasses and a 6 pack of PBR.
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  5. #5
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    Might not be the hops part of the beer that everyone likes. There are lots of hoppy beers out there, but people are still drawn to pliny

  6. #6
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    Way more flavors than bitter in Pliny.

  7. #7
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    DON'T DO IT! You'll find me chugging a gallon of Pliny sooner than going hipstertard!
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  8. #8
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    I disagree with the article's statement that most people can't distinguish above 60 IBUs. 100 IBUs is typically considered the threshold of what humans can taste, but every person is different. Pliny comes in at around 92 IBUs and is delicious.

    The ratio of maltiness to hoppiness is also important. For example, the article cites Sierra Nevada Pale Ale's 37 IBUs, but the low maltiness is what makes that beer taste crisp. The same is true of Firestone-Walker Pale 31 at 38 IBUs, one of my favorite session beers. Its extremely low maltiness makes the 38 IBUs very assertive. On the other end of the spectrum is Green Flash West Coast IPA at 95 IBUs. Yes, it is very hoppy, but the hoppiness is balanced by more maltiness. It too is delicious.

  9. #9
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    sactojesse, all this talk of balanced hops and malt is making me thirsty. This was a bad thread to start while at work early on a Friday.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    sactojesse, all this talk of balanced hops and malt is making me thirsty. This was a bad thread to start while at work early on a Friday.
    No kidding. A pox on you Menso!

    Damn, two more hours to go til beer-o-clock and I have an insane craving thanks to this thread!
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  11. #11
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    Stopped reading at: "in the craft beer capital of the world, Portland, Ore., where I live."

    I knew from there anything written wasn't credible. Anywho, sactojesse hits the nail on the head regarding malt/hop balance. So to say you can't tell the difference between IBU's is stupid because how much bitterness you taste is dependent on the grain bill. Ruination tastes totally different (and better IMHO) than Green Flash despite similar IBU's. To me Green Flash tastes like rust. It's not that it's too bitter, it's just lacking balance and complexity. But if you don't like hops, good for you... not everyone has good taste

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sactojesse View Post
    I disagree with the article's statement that most people can't distinguish above 60 IBUs. 100 IBUs is typically considered the threshold of what humans can taste, but every person is different. Pliny comes in at around 92 IBUs and is delicious.

    The ratio of maltiness to hoppiness is also important. For example, the article cites Sierra Nevada Pale Ale's 37 IBUs, but the low maltiness is what makes that beer taste crisp. The same is true of Firestone-Walker Pale 31 at 38 IBUs, one of my favorite session beers. Its extremely low maltiness makes the 38 IBUs very assertive. On the other end of the spectrum is Green Flash West Coast IPA at 95 IBUs. Yes, it is very hoppy, but the hoppiness is balanced by more maltiness. It too is delicious.
    ^^this...it's all about the malty balance/aroma for pliny

  13. #13
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    I'll just leave this here. Cool bitterness chart, too big to post:

    http://cigarsinreviewtony.files.word...11/10/hops.png

  14. #14
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    +1 -- Pliny sux!

    *Please send all unopened bottles to Seattle, WA for disposal.

  15. #15
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    Google the recipe for Pliny online and compare the ingredients to your own brand of beer that you like to drink and you will definitely see why Pliny is so special. A lot of stuff goes into making a great beer, not just Hoppyness.

  16. #16
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    Am I lying to my self about my like for pliny, or other interesting and tasty beers?

    Nope.

    I do rather like tasty beer.

  17. #17
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    I'm thinking Menso is in denial about the greatness of Pliny.

    I'm also thinking that I am going to do some hoppy beer research tonight to see if I really do like them.


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  18. #18
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    I'm thinking the only reasonable thing to do is to challenge this by getting together and having a taste test to prove/disprove the hypothesis of the hop effectiveness threshold.

  19. #19
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    OP: You might appreciate these types of beers more when you grow up. I mean older!


    Seriously, it's kinda like big red wines; they just seem to be better suited to an...established palate. In the meantime, enjoy your Natty Light!



    VV Dude, you're WAY ahead of the curve! You'll be drinking Scotch (gag) by the time you're 35.
    And full disclosure: I didn't like IPA till I was 50+ (slow learner).
    Last edited by dirtvert; 05-17-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    OP: You might appreciate these types of beers more when you grow up. I mean older!


    Seriously, it's kinda like big red wines; they just seem to be better suited to an...established palate. In the meantime, enjoy your Natty Light!
    Nice comeback! I think you are right: I didn't even like beer at all until I was 21-22 (no joke), and I've now progressed from ambers to stouts and other dark beers. Perhaps IPA's will become palatable soon.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I'm thinking Menso is in denial about the greatness of Pliny.

    I'm also thinking that I am going to do some hoppy beer research tonight to see if I really do like them.


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    We'll need some documentation of this research... You know.. for peer review....

  22. #22
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    Pliny is disgusting, where is my Nelson!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan G. View Post
    Pliny is disgusting, where is my Nelson!
    ...

  24. #24
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    Unfreakingbelievable. Because of this thread, I was reminded to check my local source.

    I bagged a case of Pliny and a case of Blind Pig. So stoked!!!

    fc
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  25. #25
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    Hey if you want to try a stout I'm going to break open a Parabola 2013 in an hour or so.

  26. #26
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    Sorry to detract from the thread but does anyone know anywhere I can get some of this Pliny in Santa Cruz right now?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymouseTech View Post
    Sorry to detract from the thread but does anyone know anywhere I can get some of this Pliny in Santa Cruz right now?
    You will not find Pliny in Santa Cruz pretty much ever.

  28. #28
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    I just love to drink beer. Any excuse I can come up with to enjoy the hops, I’ll dive on in. I must admit though that I am a big fan of hoppy brews such as Pliney and Hoptologistdipa, for example.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    You will not find Pliny in Santa Cruz pretty much ever.
    Aww man.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance View Post
    Hey if you want to try a stout I'm going to break open a Parabola 2013 in an hour or so.
    We had Parabola the other night. It was da bomb.

    The 15% Bourbon County though was the end all game ender for the evening.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails You are lying to yourself about Pliny-img_9564.jpg  

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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny-img_9561.jpg  

    You are lying to yourself about Pliny-img_9567.jpg  

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  31. #31
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    anyone want to ship some pliny or any hoppy beer for that matter to German? my hop palate is going stale

  32. #32
    OSM
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    I love hoppy beer. I can tell the difference between kinds of hops and especially when a hop extract is used (like Hop stupid). Some beers are dry hopped for only the last 2 hours its made, I believe these are cascade hops, they create a strong aroma but don't add much to the taste. West Coast IPA's own my taste buds. I've been liking the 21st Amendment a lot lately.
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  33. #33
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    Pliney older and especially younger are a bit too bitter from me. My gotos are less on the bitterness and more on the smoothness. Green Flash imperial and Pallet Wrecker, Lagunitis Maximus and Knee Deep Simutra are the current favs...YMMV.

  34. #34
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny-249165_563396827015535_971438130_n.jpg

    FTW!!

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    Nice comeback! I think you are right: I didn't even like beer at all until I was 21-22 (no joke), and I've now progressed from ambers to stouts and other dark beers. Perhaps IPA's will become palatable soon.
    FWIW I made exactly the same progression. 2 years ago it was all dark beers and wondering why everyone was so nuts over bitter, hoppy IPAs. Now I can't get enough.

    And to echo points made above, Pliny is about passionfruit for me - never ceases to amaze me how much is in the aftertaste, once the hoppiness subsides.

  36. #36
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    It took me four years of drinking ipa to finally like Lagunitas IPA. On that fateful day, it finally tasted sweet (specially the finish). From there I progressed to what I am today and I would like to thank the academy and my second grade teacher Mr. Winkelstein...

    My advice is if you do not enjoy Lagunitas IPA, stay away from all IPAs, specially double and triples.

    Same thing with Belgians. If you can't stand Chimay, then don't seek out the fancy monk beer.

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  37. #37
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    I stopped reading after the author declared Portland the "craft beer capital of the world".

  38. #38
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    - Speaking of Monk-beer. The new SNB collaboration with the Abbey of New Clairvaux is fantastic.

    Ovila Abbey Quad. Get some!

    Also just saw the new-batch of SNB Hoptimum at my local haunt. GREAT to have that back again!

  39. #39
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    We'll need some documentation of this research... You know.. for peer review....
    You are lying to yourself about Pliny-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368914592.344428.jpg

    Class of 88 Barleywine. A collaborative effort from Deschutes, Rogue and North Coast, all of them opening up in 1988.
    This is possibly the best barleywine I have ever tasted. Seriously drinkable, even at 10.2%. Huge malt presence up front. Mahogany and vanilla tones. Great mouthfeel. And then the hops hit you. Huge aroma hops hiding behind all that malt. Apricot and minty flavors with a little banana. I have never had a barleywine with this much hop flavor at the end.
    And zero harsh alcohol kick. Super smooth. Easy to drink.

    Yah, I still love hoppy beers.


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  40. #40
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    Some are calling the current time the rennaisance for White Belgium Ales. I go in and out of hoppy to non hoppy beers, but currently I am sampling the german import hefeweizans and all of the belgium white ales. I was suprised when in England a couple years back to discover their version of IPA is no where near as hoppy or bitter as our version of IPA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    According to this article, we can't even taste the different about a certain threshold of hoppyness, and Pliny and other craft brew yucky bitter beers are waaaay about that threshold. As a hop-hater, I agree.

    Discuss!



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  41. #41
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    i dont discriminate!

  42. #42
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    There is good information about beer and hops in that article. But that author pretty much doesn't know what she's talking about. In Menlo Park there is a store called Willow's market that has 1000 beers and pretty much none of them are iPa's.

    The growing variety of available beers right now is staggering.

    p.s. Here's the author's only other article on Slate.com
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    Last edited by fc; 05-19-2013 at 12:07 AM.
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  43. #43
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    Anyone have any info on Pliny in Berkeley/Oakland? I know sometimes Ben & Nicks on College Ave. has Pliny on tap, but anywhere else has it bottled?

  44. #44
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    Beer Revolution had it in bottles last time i was there

  45. #45
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    You are lying to yourself about Pliny-imageuploadedbytapatalk1368989801.085660.jpg
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    NoBalance, you suck. Where can I get Parabola? I've got two Sucabas in the fridge, but I haven't seen Parabola N-E-WHERE. I've also got two XVI's in the fridge, but my burglar alarm phasers are set on "kill" and my Rottweillers are chronically under-fed, good luck making it as far as the kitchen, let alone reaching the fridge.

  47. #47
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    Problem is , I just enjoy beer, quality and to some degree quantity, so although there's so many amazing beers out there, it's hard to enjoy many that are getting higher than 7 - 7.5%, to do so requires some restraint, otherwise, well, you know how it is in the morning...

    After hard work, or a hard ride, I remember telling my spouse, "The first one is for the thirst, the second one is for taste.", to which she replied, "So what are the third and fourth ones for?"

    Last edited by three3nine; 05-19-2013 at 08:00 PM.

  48. #48
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    You will not find Pliny in Santa Cruz pretty much ever.
    Firestone Walker Double Jack is virtually identical to Pliny, and much easier to find.

  49. #49
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    ..not much of a beer drinker - or drinker at all - and given a choice always go for the hefeweizen variety, which is pretty low on hops. Sue me. I have to agree that many craft beers around go a bit too heavy on hops. But that's just my taste.

  50. #50
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    You will find 2013 Parabola at Fremont Bevmo. For some reason they got about 10 cases and the rest of the Bevmo's got shafted. There is your tip of the fricken year for Parabola.

    Oh yeah, If you want some on tap I can tell you but... but... let me get a pint first then I'll tell you where. haha

    And yes, Double Jack is very similar to Pliny though I find that extra alcohol and hint of lychee fruit in the flavor to be the winner for DJ.

  51. #51
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    IMO, the closest surrogate Pliny I've found is Heretic Brewing Company's Evil Cousin DIPA. It checks in at 8% abv, the same as Pliny.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance View Post
    You will find 2013 Parabola at Fremont Bevmo. For some reason they got about 10 cases and the rest of the Bevmo's got shafted. There is your tip of the fricken year for Parabola.

    Oh yeah, If you want some on tap I can tell you but... but... let me get a pint first then I'll tell you where. haha

    And yes, Double Jack is very similar to Pliny though I find that extra alcohol and hint of lychee fruit in the flavor to be the winner for DJ.
    you da man!

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biking Brazilian View Post
    Firestone Walker Double Jack is virtually identical to Pliny, and much easier to find.
    Quote Originally Posted by sactojesse View Post
    IMO, the closest surrogate Pliny I've found is Heretic Brewing Company's Evil Cousin DIPA. It checks in at 8% abv, the same as Pliny.
    Oh man. You guys need to try PtE against a bunch of DIPAs, side-by-side. Then try and make that comparison again.

    You won't.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino View Post
    Oh man. You guys need to try PtE against a bunch of DIPAs, side-by-side. Then try and make that comparison again.

    You won't.
    Pretty much. Fresh Double Jack is good no doubt but not "virtually identical". Evil Cousin...only had it once. Not in the same ball park.

    I do think Stone's "Enjoy By..." is somewhat similar to Pliny in taste and appearance for what it's worth.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMFT View Post
    - Speaking of Monk-beer. The new SNB collaboration with the Abbey of New Clairvaux is fantastic.

    Ovila Abbey Quad. Get some!
    The one aged in brandy barrels? I really enjoyed that brew and plan to pick up some more. The previous Ovila's didn't really do that much for me, but this current version tastes great to me.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Pretty much. Fresh Double Jack is good no doubt but not "virtually identical". Evil Cousin...only had it once. Not in the same ball park.

    I do think Stone's "Enjoy By..." is somewhat similar to Pliny in taste and appearance for what it's worth.

    No doubt. Enjoy By xx by Stone is a great beer to compare to Pliny. But it is even harder to get. Ballast Point Sculpin is in the neighborhood but overpriced.

    Lagunitas Lucky 13 is good and affordable one.
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  57. #57
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    Ninkasi Tricerahops is tasty

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Fresh Double Jack is good no doubt but not "virtually identical"
    I just had one over the course of the past thirty minutes (purchase was inspired by this thread) and I have to say, although it was delicious, there is no comparison. I prefer Pliney… although I’d settle for a Hoptologistdipa.
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  59. #59
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    Jesus I'm tired of reading about all these p7ssy @zz California beers.

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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    p7ssy @zz
    Are they hoppy?

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Fresh Double Jack is good no doubt but not "virtually identical".
    I like how you state that as scripture, pure fact. It's my opinion, man.

    How's this: You're wrong.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biking Brazilian View Post
    I like how you state that as scripture, pure fact. It's my opinion, man.

    How's this: You're wrong.
    'scripture, pure fact'??? No way. That's just his opinion. We just happen to hella agree with him.

    fc
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biking Brazilian View Post
    I like how you state that as scripture, pure fact. It's my opinion, man.

    How's this: You're wrong.
    Fair enough. My point is they are totally different recipes therefore they can not be "virtually identical". Both are good but not the same. If you like Double Jack better, that's awesome.

    I really don't give a crap what people drink.

  64. #64
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    The impression of flavor is different depending on the taster. Perceived bitterness, discernible fruit, and malt characteristics vary by who is doing the drinking. How tuned is the drinkers ability to separate aroma from flavor and also their ability to determine how the two work in concert to provide an overall impression. All IIPA's are similar in that they are bitter and heavy on alcohol. Some folks might stop there and make the assumption that Pliny and Double Jack are the same...and this person might not be "wrong" because that's what they taste. Those with a more sensitive palate, an understanding of brewing, and a command of related vocabulary to convey their impression into meaningful words might have more to say.

    That said, these beers mentioned are certainly different. Stone & Russian River employ hop extracts for bittering in addition to fresh hops. Firestone Walker puts emphasis on malt balance which can mask both background bitterness and alcohol. All three rely on late hop additions to harness the flavor contributions of different hop varieties...all use some form of whirlpooling and dry hopping.

    Hop selection is one area of difference, with each having a different focus...some on stone fruit, some on tropical fruit, some on citrus, some on "dank" or herbal, or some combination thereof. Only Stone uses Citra...a hop known for "stanky". If you smelled a handful of this hop fresh you would swear your nose was in a bag of weed (very cat pee like). Most are using Simcoe hops. Stone employs several varieties from New Zealand and Australia which is becoming quite popular....probably because they harvest at different time than US and because it's a great marketing move.

    Another area of difference is malt. IIPA's really need a heavy malt bill....this produces more alcohol, but it also provides a full and rounded malt profile to balance the bitterness and alcohol. There are different ways of achieving this, but generally brewers will reserve a certain percentage of malts that are less or non fermentable. These residual sugars cannot be metabolized by yeast into alcohol, and it's that residual sugar or maltiness that adds balance to the beers which is so critical in IIPA's.

    I suppose somewhere in here I had a point. Maybe I should go have a Pliny to remember....or a Double Jack....or a Drink By....or a Sculpin....or a.....

  65. #65
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    double post
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    I consulted a local expert, and he had this to say on the matter:

    "Here's to alcohol, the cause of--and solution to--all of life's problems." ~ H. Simpson.

    But I guess you have to take that with a grain of malt...
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebeer View Post
    The impression of flavor is different depending on the taster. Perceived bitterness, discernible fruit, and malt characteristics vary by who is doing the drinking. How tuned is the drinkers ability to separate aroma from flavor and also their ability to determine how the two work in concert to provide an overall impression. All IIPA's are similar in that they are bitter and heavy on alcohol. Some folks might stop there and make the assumption that Pliny and Double Jack are the same...and this person might not be "wrong" because that's what they taste. Those with a more sensitive palate, an understanding of brewing, and a command of related vocabulary to convey their impression into meaningful words might have more to say.

    That said, these beers mentioned are certainly different. Stone & Russian River employ hop extracts for bittering in addition to fresh hops. Firestone Walker puts emphasis on malt balance which can mask both background bitterness and alcohol. All three rely on late hop additions to harness the flavor contributions of different hop varieties...all use some form of whirlpooling and dry hopping.

    Hop selection is one area of difference, with each having a different focus...some on stone fruit, some on tropical fruit, some on citrus, some on "dank" or herbal, or some combination thereof. Only Stone uses Citra...a hop known for "stanky". If you smelled a handful of this hop fresh you would swear your nose was in a bag of weed (very cat pee like). Most are using Simcoe hops. Stone employs several varieties from New Zealand and Australia which is becoming quite popular....probably because they harvest at different time than US and because it's a great marketing move.

    Another area of difference is malt. IIPA's really need a heavy malt bill....this produces more alcohol, but it also provides a full and rounded malt profile to balance the bitterness and alcohol. There are different ways of achieving this, but generally brewers will reserve a certain percentage of malts that are less or non fermentable. These residual sugars cannot be metabolized by yeast into alcohol, and it's that residual sugar or maltiness that adds balance to the beers which is so critical in IIPA's.

    I suppose somewhere in here I had a point. Maybe I should go have a Pliny to remember....or a Double Jack....or a Drink By....or a Sculpin....or a.....
    Citra are fruity and tropical. C

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebeer View Post
    The impression of flavor is different depending on the taster. Perceived bitterness, discernible fruit, and malt characteristics vary by who is doing the drinking. How tuned is the drinkers ability to separate aroma from flavor and also their ability to determine how the two work in concert to provide an overall impression. All IIPA's are similar in that they are bitter and heavy on alcohol. Some folks might stop there and make the assumption that Pliny and Double Jack are the same...and this person might not be "wrong" because that's what they taste. Those with a more sensitive palate, an understanding of brewing, and a command of related vocabulary to convey their impression into meaningful words might have more to say.

    That said, these beers mentioned are certainly different. Stone & Russian River employ hop extracts for bittering in addition to fresh hops. Firestone Walker puts emphasis on malt balance which can mask both background bitterness and alcohol. All three rely on late hop additions to harness the flavor contributions of different hop varieties...all use some form of whirlpooling and dry hopping.

    Hop selection is one area of difference, with each having a different focus...some on stone fruit, some on tropical fruit, some on citrus, some on "dank" or herbal, or some combination thereof. Only Stone uses Citra...a hop known for "stanky". If you smelled a handful of this hop fresh you would swear your nose was in a bag of weed (very cat pee like). Most are using Simcoe hops. Stone employs several varieties from New Zealand and Australia which is becoming quite popular....probably because they harvest at different time than US and because it's a great marketing move.

    Another area of difference is malt. IIPA's really need a heavy malt bill....this produces more alcohol, but it also provides a full and rounded malt profile to balance the bitterness and alcohol. There are different ways of achieving this, but generally brewers will reserve a certain percentage of malts that are less or non fermentable. These residual sugars cannot be metabolized by yeast into alcohol, and it's that residual sugar or maltiness that adds balance to the beers which is so critical in IIPA's.

    I suppose somewhere in here I had a point. Maybe I should go have a Pliny to remember....or a Double Jack....or a Drink By....or a Sculpin....or a.....
    Citra are fruity and tropical - I get a lot of pineapple, orange peel and resin. I think Colombus are the skunky dank kings..

  69. #69
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    What is up with you drunk people double-posting? Sheesh!
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    What is up with you drunk people double-posting? Sheesh!
    Posting from a beach in North Shore Oahu. Not the best reception up here

  71. #71
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    Had myself a grand tour of pubs in the Pleasanton-Livermore area yesterday:
    -double jack and parabola on tap at Handles in pleasanton
    -flight at tap25 in livermore, always good options here
    -karl strauss big barrel(taste just like lagunitas sucks), green flash palate wrecker and green flash green bullet -- all at livermore saloon
    -flight at hopyard, always pliny on tap

    have to say, all the IPAs at the saloon were top of the line but the green bullet i had never tasted and it was something else, out of this world. it did remind me of some other beer i've had but i can't remember...

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menso View Post
    According to this article, we can't even taste the different about a certain threshold of hoppyness, and Pliny and other craft brew yucky bitter beers are waaaay about that threshold. As a hop-hater, I agree.

    Discuss!



    beer threads don't need an "OT:" on the norcal forum, right?
    If there's anything worse than a bike troll, it's a beer troll.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by solomon707 View Post
    If there's anything worse than a bike troll, it's a beer troll.
    What about a bike-beer troll on a road bike sipping on an electrolyte drink?

    fc
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  74. #74
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    You are lying to yourself about Pliny

    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    What about a bike-beer troll on a road bike sipping on an electrolyte drink?

    fc
    Well, nobody really expects roadie scum to know good beers.


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  75. #75
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    Here is proof that Pliny is the best. These five testers will show you their reaction:

    Beerfest Clip - YouTube

    Enjoy!

  76. #76
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    I would agree that Evil Cousin is the best not-quite-as-good-as-Pliny. Good thing SactoJesse left one in my frig

    To heck with balance. I dislike residual sugar. "Dry," bitter, and with plenty of pine and citrus.

    Here's one for being alive to enjoy this beer "Renaissance" today (not sure it's a re-birth, but whatever...no idea for a better description)! Still amazes me how quickly the beer market has shifted. Can't go to even a second rate mini-mart anymore and not find very decent beer!
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