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  1. #1
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    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike

    Posted by Inyo National Forest about the Rock Creek Fire earlier this summer:

    Cause of Rock Creek Fire Determined
    The cause of the Rock Creek fire that started on August 5th has been determined. Investigators have concluded that the fire was started from a bicycle pedal strike to a rock. Conclusive evidence was found in the fire origin area that was on the Lower Rock Creek mountain bike trail. A fire ignition from this type of trigger is a testament to how dry the area is right now. All residents and visitors are asked to be extremely careful with anything that may cause a fire while you are out in the forest.

    xxx-

  2. #2
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    Ummm? Do they even make Steel pedals anymore?


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  3. #3
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    C'mon!!!!

    Need some mythbusters on this case.
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    Damn weight weenies and their magnesium pedals!

  5. #5
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    This is a week old, but still indicates under investigation:

    InciWeb the Incident Information System: Rock Creek Fire

    Can you share the source or at least where the determination was published?

  6. #6
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    Published on the Inyo National Forest Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/inyonf/

  7. #7
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    Wow, I wasn't expecting that. On the link, it says there was "conclusive evidence" of this. I would really like to see the details on that.

    Only YOU can prevent forest fires. Always use high POE hubs. Smoky the Bear thanks you.

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    I bet it is tied to the comment period that will close shortly.

    Nothing like a good conservationist myth to drum up negativity about bicycles during a comment period. Nice work USFS!


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  9. #9
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    This definitely happened just as described - I heard about a fire that started last year because a redneck removed his huge belt buckle too quickly

    Good news is that they are not banning bikes in the area - you just have to ride one of these rigs - sweet geometry though

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  10. #10
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    When you pedal strike a rock that hard, you'll get catapulted.

    Those investigators should be handed a pedal and then asked to strike it on a rock to see if it's possible.
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  11. #11
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    Not buying it. However, if the bike in question had Magnesium pedals, then...
    One gear is all you need.

  12. #12
    fc
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    Maybe it was a safety meeting.

    Could it be possible a hiker was on the mountain bike trail???

    fc
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Maybe it was a safety meeting.

    Could it be possible a hiker was on the mountain bike trail???

    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Not buying it. However, if the bike in question had Magnesium pedals, then...
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.


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  15. #15
    fc
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    More info:

    MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Fire investigators have concluded that a small wildfire in the Eastern Sierra Nevada was sparked by a bicycle pedal striking a rock.
    A U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman says Wednesday evidence found along a mountain bike trail in Inyo National Forest led investigators to determine the cause of the August 5th blaze.

    Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. The spark ignited a fire that charred 122 acres of tinder-dry grass 20 miles southeast of Mammoth Lakes.
    Butler says the finding demonstrates how dry the state's wildlands are due to the ongoing drought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.


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    The Mg versions generally don't look any different than their Al version.
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    I ran these on my Sight for awhile
    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-201405070856281.jpg

  17. #17
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    The Mg versions generally don't look any different than their Al version.
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    I ran these on my Sight for awhile
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have both those pedals. I should try hitting them with a bigass rock.
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    We should have had at least one fire at Tamarancho by now


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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.
    Canfield Brothers makes magnesium pedals: Thinnest pedal platforms on the market. Never snag your pedal again!

  20. #20
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    Trans-Sylvania Epic 2014: Stage 2: Rothrock Cooper's Gap Results | Cyclingnews.com

    Race notes:

    In an unusual occurrence, a small fire broke out next to the course during the race. Some racers flew past the flames, which extended to right next to the trail, but one rider turned back to tell a photographer who he'd just passed. That photographer, Devon Balet, ran toward the fire and singlehandedly beat it out with sticks. Though he called for help from a nearby videographer a bit further up the trail, no one could hear him. By the time the fire department and forest service had responded, Balet had extinguished the flames.

    The cause of the fire is undetermined although the rangers speculated that perhaps it was caused by a spark from a rider's pedal hitting a rock.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Trans-Sylvania Epic 2014: Stage 2: Rothrock Cooper's Gap Results | Cyclingnews.com

    Race notes:

    In an unusual occurrence, a small fire broke out next to the course during the race. Some racers flew past the flames, which extended to right next to the trail, but one rider turned back to tell a photographer who he'd just passed. That photographer, Devon Balet, ran toward the fire and singlehandedly beat it out with sticks. Though he called for help from a nearby videographer a bit further up the trail, no one could hear him. By the time the fire department and forest service had responded, Balet had extinguished the flames.

    The cause of the fire is undetermined although the rangers speculated that perhaps it was caused by a spark from a rider's pedal hitting a rock.

  22. #22
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    I completely forgot about Mg pedals.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I have both those pedals. I should try hitting them with a bigass rock.
    I agree with yuppie!

    Do it for Science!

  24. #24
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    Yeah I always keep a pedal in my backpacking bag for starting fires... Though I guess it could happen it seems so unlikely I am having a hard time with this conclusion. I think it was caused by a smokin' hot blonde out for a hike but that's just me.

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    That sounds like compelling evidence a pedal strike occurred at that location at some time - would need more to determine if aligned with the start. If they have a piece of the pedal, a determination about type of metal is possible to see if it was possible.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    What if we rubbed Berkeley Mike and Pete together?
    ^Please, you know it's all because of my sparkling personality and that innate ability I have to light people up. I do see where you're going with the inferred friction though. j/k

  27. #27
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    I've had riders behind me at South Mountain say they saw sparks fly from my 545s hitting rocks. Seems highly unlikely that anything could catch given how short lived the event is with how little fuel is actually on the trail, but I'd guess it's in the realm of possibility.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #28
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    FC, I'll one up your idea. Let's get some pedals together, I know more than a few people here are strapped, at least one of whom owns a glock, one with a Smith and Wesson, I'll loan my H&K and I'll also bring my Winchester.

    We can then all head on down to Reeds off of 101, or TargetMasters, shut the shop down for a day, line pedals and granite rocks up and take turns taking pop shots to see if we get a spark. Now all we need is someone who we're all kosher with to come and use high speed film equipment to capture things for review.

    JustSaying

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post
    FC, I'll one up your idea. Let's get some pedals together, I know more than a few people here are strapped, at least one of whom owns a glock, one with a Smith and Wesson, I'll loan my H&K and I'll also bring my Winchester.

    We can then all head on down to Reeds off of 101, or TargetMasters, shut the shop down for a day, line pedals and granite rocks up and take turns taking pop shots to see if we get a spark. Now all we need is someone who we're all kosher with to come and use high speed film equipment to capture things for review.

    JustSaying
    Great idea, but the lead is too soft (no spark, I'm betting). However, in the interest of science, get a few pedals together (one of which being Magnesium) and strike them like a match against rocks. I'm betting that Magnesium will get you a reaction.
    One gear is all you need.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Great idea, but the lead is too soft (no spark, I'm betting). However, in the interest of science, get a few pedals together (one of which being Magnesium) and strike them like a match against rocks. Magnesium will definitely get you a reaction.
    Ammo isn't made out of lead, it's made from graphite.

    Edit: Oh wait, that's pencils.
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  31. #31
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    Nope

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  32. #32
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    Given the ease with which I've built fires with the little fire starter kit that comes as a block of magnesium and a striker, it would seem fairly reasonable to see this take place. Especially when you have the privilege of riding behind a knob motorcyclist with magnesium encrusted knee sliders...it leaves a damn long spark trail! Given the right conditions ... boof!
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    I think the talk to magnesium is irreverent. While it is possible a magnesium pedal started the blaze, any good pedal has steel pins which are enough to create sparks not to mention an SPD or other clipless pedal has steel parts that could also create sparks when striking a rock and in fact are the part of the pedal that strikes first.

  34. #34
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    Are they sure their physical evidence minutiae is indeed a piece of metal from a mountain bike pedal? What about a horseshoe or horseshoe nail? I bet those things hit and spark off rocks way more often than mountain bike pedals.
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  35. #35
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    I've seen sparks during night rides on rocky trails.

  36. #36
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    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.
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  37. #37
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    "Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. "

    This sounds like BS. It is possible to cause a spark but the pedal will be intact and it will not separate into chunks or shavings. It does sound better though for the 'forensic' bs report that she has the smoking gun.

    "This shaving caused the spark that ignited the fire". C'mon.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.

    Are you sure? I've seen (what I'm told were) magnesium knee pucks on sport bike riders create quite the fireworks display.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.
    Why do they make Magnesium fire starters then?

    https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Fir.../dp/B00EW0CG2Y
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    "Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. "

    This sounds like BS. It is possible to cause a spark but the pedal will be intact and it will not separate into chunks or shavings. It does sound better though for the 'forensic' bs report that she has the smoking gun.

    "This shaving caused the spark that ignited the fire". C'mon.
    The horse shoe comment above is more merit than this "investigation," and they're running full steel shoe/nails.

  42. #42
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    The pedal may be MG, but the pins are Steel
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  43. #43
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    I've seen sparks fly from an SPD cleat when a rider intentionally dragged his blown out shoe across a paved road on a high speed downhill. Those conditions are hard to find on the trail


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  44. #44
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    I'm pretty sure any time the Footpeople think, sparks fly.
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  45. #45
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    My understanding is that magnesium by itself does not produce a spark but will burn like hell and easily if exposed to a high temperature sparks such as that produced by flint. I used the phrase "my understanding" because I know a high percentage of MTBR posters are geniuses and I am prepared to be told how dumb I am.

  46. #46
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    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?

  47. #47
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    So IF the magnesium pedal sheared and left shavings that were then ignited by the striking of one of the pins of the pedal that could do it? I guess it comes down to how 'hot' the spark from a typical pedal 'pin' is? I would have to guess that varying metals throw sparks of varying temperatures.

    Regarding the knee pucks on motorcyclists, all I'm seeing is titanium sliders for sale...perhaps they never had magnesium in them?

    I suppose titanium pedals might do the same or better if it doesn't need an independent spark to light it as magnesium seems to (as suggested in above posts).
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    It really helps to read and understand previous posts.

    The discussion is not about cleats.

    It's about pedal strikes (key word = "pedal")
    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    No, he's not sure. Just making stuff up. Again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHJUXDOdth8
    I want to take this opportunity to extend a warm welcome to spurious and thank him for his solid contributions thus far.

    How can we line up a thread where spurious and tomcat just banter back and forth? Is there any, like, technology or something that can make that happen?

  49. #49
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob-o View Post
    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?
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  50. #50
    Obi
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    *How does anyone outside of a specific few know it's actually a piece of a bike pedal? Show me.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob-o View Post
    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?
    Yep solid work once again - for realz though, I did hear it was a Santa Cruz that started the fire

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    I'm just going to say I blame CHUM.

    That has about as much science as the conclusion of the cause.

    -j

  53. #53
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    We forgot one: Thanks a lot Obama

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  54. #54
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    Maybe the investigators wife is a horse person or a hippie hiker? Some guys will do anything to get back in good graces with the Mrs

  55. #55
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    Myth. It did not happen that way. They just cook up myths for some purpose.

    If there was a piece of pedal, it was there for a long time before. Most likely just a cigarette butt from some hiker.

  56. #56
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    Yeah magnesium doesn't spark; a steel or titanium pin in a magnesium pedal could have made a spark contacting a rock but very unlikely that the mag pedal ignited. It would have to drag on an abrading surface for a long ways to build up enough heat to ignite. Maybe bad pedal bearings?

    I wonder what kind of training that fire investigator had, like HS chemistry?

    FWIW I've TIG welded magnesium before, no big deal.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    I wonder what kind of training that fire investigator had, like HS chemistry?
    None. But we will be hearing this freshly created myth again. Like that mythical dead snake.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    ... but very unlikely that the mag pedal ignited.
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    More info:

    MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Fire investigators have concluded that a small wildfire in the Eastern Sierra Nevada was sparked by a bicycle pedal striking a rock.
    A U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman says Wednesday evidence found along a mountain bike trail in Inyo National Forest led investigators to determine the cause of the August 5th blaze.

    Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. The spark ignited a fire that charred 122 acres of tinder-dry grass 20 miles southeast of Mammoth Lakes.
    Butler says the finding demonstrates how dry the state's wildlands are due to the ongoing drought.

    Wow, that's what passes for "conclusive" evidence? So basically...any trail that is near the origin of a fire could be "conclusively" caused by a pedal strike because you can definitely find chunks of pedal on pretty much any MTB trail? I hope the evidence is better/more nuanced than that.

  60. #60
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    In most venues, there are penalties for officials putting out false or misleading information. Seems that it's happened multiple times in the past year. Time for some $$$-loaded riders to get their legal team going! Someone call Oprah!!!

    Seriously though - the actual report should be public record. Additional info would either shut us up or negate their "cause." I don't see many riders wanting anything other than reality.

  61. #61
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    Quite amazing what we pay our government officials to "cook up", never seems to end the amount of BS and hysteria they will generate just to further their own agenda. How in the hell hasn't this happened say about a thousand times over to date with the successive droughts in the state an throughout the West in general since we have been riding in the woods for decades now and with a myriad of pedals to boot just shows the inanity of this PRESS RELEASE, claiming to be facts.

    I guess it must have been a WMDH, wild maniac on a DH and once again all of society is under imminent attack so of course the only prudent cause must be to ban bikers off even more trails, it's for your own good.

    The cigarette butt says it all, lets not deal with that reality ever and keep pretending it's OK to drive and smoke, hike and smoke, and once done throw that lil' puppy out the window after that last glorious drag and enjoy life while a huge forest fire gets its start and people lose their homes and lives, that apparently is OK.

    They didn't call him Smokey the Bear for nothing, too bad Smokey couldn't take a few of those USFS goons out back and have his big and burly bearly ways with 'em.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
    Aye, I added the magnesium pedal stuff as a joke but stranger things have happened. We should bring in Ace Ventura.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    Seriously though - the actual report should be public record. Additional info would either shut us up or negate their "cause." I don't see many riders wanting anything other than reality.
    USFS is a govt agency, you could probably get it with a FOIA request.

  64. #64
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    Good luck with getting anything conclusive from them. But unfortunately it will be just like the mythical Alameda snake - quoted as a true fact for posterity.
    It did not happen, it is a CYA speculation, and should always be referred as such.

  65. #65
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    There are 622 users browsing this thread. 8 members and 614 guests. I think we got someone's attention.

    This seems like an incredibly unlikely chain of events. Like something Rube Goldberg would design, or a law student would read about in torts as a replacement for Palsgraf v. LIRR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palsgr...nd_Railroad_Co.).

    Think about it. If you hit a pedal hard enough to shear off a part large enough to be identified as a bike pedal, a hit that hard would probably throw the rider, or at the very least pop your foot out. Now the rider has stopped to clip back in (or more likely collect belongings from the yard sale that resulted) and probably inspect a pedal that is no longer operable on one or both sides. And somehow we're supposed to believe that in all of this, the rider didn't notice that a spark jumped from the rock to some vegetation and started burning?

    This is sandbagging by a public agency that doesn't realize that cutting out a big user base will mean lower funding in the years down the road.

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    I'll add more fuel to the fire (damn puns - they cannot be avoided) - I have ridden that trail several times - the upper part is very smooth, fast and flowy with almost no rocks & lots of hiker traffic - the lower part is very rocky but extremely slow, chunky tech with HAB sections - so there are really no sections where you are carrying a lot of speed over rocks

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    The most likely part of a modern mountain bike to cause a fire when riding is the brake rotors.

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.
    I get paid to ride shotgun.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I'll add more fuel to the fire (damn puns - they cannot be avoided) - I have ridden that trail several times - the upper part is very smooth, fast and flowy with almost no rocks & lots of hiker traffic - the lower part is very rocky but extremely slow, chunky tech with HAB sections - so there are really no sections where you are carrying a lot of speed over rocks
    You don't need speed when you have legs like this!
    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-will-cycling-make-your-legs-bigger.jpg

    And LOL @Davey!

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octane View Post
    The most likely part of a modern mountain bike to cause a fire when riding is the brake rotors.

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.




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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    You don't need speed when you have legs like this!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    How do we ban a moderator?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post



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    Wow. Impressed!!
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    How do we ban a moderator?
    You can't muahahaha!

  74. #74
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    Because a split second before the pedal was applied to the rock, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Because a split second before the pedal was applied to the rock, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!
    "...It's an industry term."

    Oh... Definite points for the "My Cousin Vinny" reference! Well played!
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  76. #76
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    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike

    Sorry if this has been posted already:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/ar...-forest-47949/


    Speaking on behalf of the Inyo National Forest, fire prevention technician Kirstie Butler told BikeRadar that, while the exact cause of many forest fires go unresolved, the evidence in this instance was definitive.

    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” Butler said.

    Investigators traced the source of the Rock Creek fire back to a single rock on a trail surrounded by cheatgrass. Cheatgrass is an invasive species in the western United States that is quick to grow back after fires. It dries out in summer, creating a fuel source for subsequent blazes.

    The day the fire started, temperatures were high, winds were moderate and humidity levels were in the single-digits — ideal conditions for wildfires.

    Marks on the rock and bits of metal indicated that a spark from a pedal strike ignited the cheatgrass.

    “It really doesn’t take much for cheatgrass to ignite. Anything could start a fire in conditions like this. It would have been like striking a flint,” Butler noted.

    According to Butler, while this may seem like an incredibly unlikely chain of events, the US Forest Service has evidence that this has happened before. She notes that sparks from chainsaws and lawn mowers are frequent causes of wildfires. To date, there have been 4,084 wildfires in California, burning a total of 150,498 acres in 2016.

    Butler, who is a mountain biker and has frequently ridden the Lower Rock Creek Trail, doesn’t believe the incident will result in trail closures to mountain bikers, nor does she view mountain bikers as more of a fire hazard than any other trail user group.

    “This is not about pointing fingers; we know it wasn’t done maliciously. We understand that mountain biking is a popular activity and we’re not trying to say that this is a reason to stop. It’s just something to be aware of,” said Butler.

  77. #77
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    Horseshoes can do the same:

    "Equine expert killed as horse shoe sparks explosion heard 30 miles away"
    Equine expert killed as horse shoe sparks explosion heard 30 miles away - Telegraph

    Flaming Steel | A Moment of Science - Indiana Public Media
    "For example, horseshoes make sparks as they gallop over a gravel path."

    "When horses, ponies and mules were used in underground coal mining operations, brass shoes and nails served to limit accidental sparks that could cause explosions."
    http://animals.mom.me/material-horseshoe-3442.html

    There's even an official listing for "horseshoe spark" in the Cal Fire "General Fire Cause Definitions"!

    http://www.fire.ca.gov/downloads/red...efinitions.pdf

    So even if this freak incident was caused by a pedal strike, equestrians are much more likely to cause such a fire - since four metal horseshoes strike the ground with each step, versus pedal strikes which are relatively rare.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Butler, who is a mountain biker and has frequently ridden the Lower Rock Creek Trail, doesn’t believe the incident will result in trail closures to mountain bikers, nor does she view mountain bikers as more of a fire hazard than any other trail user group.

    “This is not about pointing fingers; we know it wasn’t done maliciously. We understand that mountain biking is a popular activity and we’re not trying to say that this is a reason to stop. It’s just something to be aware of,” said Butler.
    This is worth reposting.

  79. #79
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    lol

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
    You're correct, I had read all the posts referring to "magnesium pedals" and wrongly assumed that somebody had gotten that tidbit from the report. (which doesn't seem to be an "official report" at that) We can revisit this when the official report goes online.
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  81. #81
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    1 - 2 - 3 - 4, I declare a meme war.

    Oh, wait for it, yup, I win.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-drewberrymoretricyclefirestarterpedalmashup.jpg  


  82. #82
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Why do they make Magnesium fire starters then?

    https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Fir.../dp/B00EW0CG2Y
    The thing that sparks is the flint, not the magnesium.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    You're the best... around...
    Is nothing ever going to keep him down?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Octane View Post

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.
    No, I've done it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  86. #86
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    The More You Know: https://www.facebook.com/TAMBAtahoe/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED (the pedal story is the third one down on their feed as of this evening)



    Btw, the guy sending it on Corral is one of the two main guys building/maintaining the Bijou Bike Park.
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  87. #87
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    Magnesium adds to it Thats its purpose. The grass is like the flint here. It seems like a really improbable amount of things that had to happen. Interesting for sure

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by j1cham View Post
    Magnesium adds to it Thats its purpose. The grass is like the flint here. It seems like a really improbable amount of things that had to happen. Interesting for sure
    Source please, all info I see says magnesium catches a spark and burns at high temps. But as I said before I'm kind of a dumb**** compared to the average genius level of most posters on MTBR.

  89. #89
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    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” USFS Kristie Butler said.

    Let's just call this the Swiss Cheese Report. Just because it is in the realm of possibility, (like winning the lottery) doesn't mean that it did happen.

    Because a bike pedal has not been known to start a fire in our collective millions of mountain biking hours, it should take a bit more than swiss cheese to make this forest fire conclusion.

    Implications are 'forests can be shut down to bikes during hot weather' because 'bike pedals can start fires'.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” USFS Kristie Butler said.

    Let's just call this the Swiss Cheese Report. Just because it is in the realm of possibility, (like winning the lottery) doesn't mean that it did happen.

    Because a bike pedal has not been known to start a fire in our collective millions of mountain biking hours, it should take a bit more than swiss cheese to make this forest fire conclusion.

    Implications are 'forests can be shut down to bikes during hot weather' because 'bike pedals can start fires'.
    I agree, this is what bugs me about it. How can they be so sure, it seems so far fetched, unless they are going to start to close when it's hot.
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  91. #91
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    At the next mtbr gathering, please add fire starting as part of the nightly shenanigans.
    .

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by donutnational View Post
    Source please, all info I see says magnesium catches a spark and burns at high temps. But as I said before I'm kind of a dumb**** compared to the average genius level of most posters on MTBR.
    I dont have a source. Maybe it can spark. But i base this off a mag flint stick. You shave off mag and then strike the flint to ignite the mag.yes it burns very violent too.

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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by j1cham View Post
    I dont have a source. Maybe it can spark. But i base this off a mag flint stick. You shave off mag and then strike the flint to ignite the mag.yes it burns very violent too.

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    "Flint" hasn't been real flint for a long time; that metal that gives off the sparks is technically called ferrocerium. From wiki:

    "A modern ferrocerium firesteel product is composed of an alloy of rare earth metals called mischmetal (containing approximately 50% cerium, 25% lanthanum, and small amounts of praseodymium and neodymium), plus iron and a small amount of magnesium.[2] A variety of other components are added to modify the spark and processing characteristics.[1] Most contemporary flints are hardened with 20% iron oxide and 2% magnesium oxide."

    So yes a little bit of Mg but the ersatz flint would spark just the same without it.

    Magnesium by itself won't spark when struck under normal conditions.

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  94. #94
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    It might have been my fault

    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-img_5809_medium.jpg

  95. #95
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    I found an actual demonstration of a mountain biker pedaling through rocks and actually starting a fire. Note the nature of the kindling around the very special type of flint rocks found in this part of Michigan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I found an actual demonstration of a mountain biker pedaling through rocks and actually starting a fire. Note the nature of the kindling around the very special type of flint rocks found in this part of Michigan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
    Jerk
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Jerk
    You HAVE to watch the entire video. And like it.
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  98. #98
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    No way, after remembering about BMX frames made of it when we we're kids in the 70s this sham by the USFS is sickening me even more.

    I had to look it up, and here is what one poster said over on the BMX museum site about the overall content, some were almost 97 percent magnesium. So we have had the ultra rowdy BMX gang (gotta love 'em, I do) crashing into practically any known object they could find back then and we still haven't seen fire break out under 20" wheels so this is a total crock of you-know-what in my opinion.

    Magnesium frame correction - BMXmuseum.com

    So either the aluminum and zinc are the elements to make sure the frame doesn't catch fire or maybe not, hmmm.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  99. #99
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    A good post from TAMBA on their Facebook Page:

    "There has been a lot of hoopla on the interwebz over this press release intended to heighten public awareness about current fire danger. Everything from absolute denial that a pedal striking a rock could spark a fire, to conspiracy theory that this was made up by the Forest Service to ban mountain bikes from trails. That saddens this moderator who also happens to be trained in fire investigations. Not only is it possible for a pedal strike to create a spark that could start a fire under the right fuel moisture and weather conditions like those that existed on the day the Rock Creek fire started, but this actually occurred in similar cheat grass fuels in Reno several years ago and was witnessed by this same moderator who was riding with the group. That happened to be a SPD pedal which is steel and capable of creating a spark against certain rock types. We talked with our friends down on the Inyo National Forest and not only was this a proper cause and origin investigation, but they had no other motive than to educate the public to be careful on hot and dry days. This was not intended to single out MTB'ers. Nearly all recreational users have been responsible for starting accidental wildfires at some point; campers, hunters, jeepers, hikers, backpackers, target shooters, etc. It is our hope that riders and all other users exercise caution when choosing to recreate on trails with light flashy fuels on hot and dry days so it's an incident that's not repeated. #smokeybearhug"

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    The USFS made no mention of magnesium. That was introduced by a poster in post #4.

    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike

    It was tongue-in-cheek but folks have been going crazy about Magnesium ever since.
    Thanks for the correction, I appreciate it.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

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