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  1. #1
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    Why do 29ers still suck?

    I'm being serious. I've been demoing bikes for years, and I haven't found a 29er that is even somewhat comfortable on the trail. Ok, the original Ripley felt good on switchbacks, but the top tube was so short. I know that one ride isn't really enough time on a bike but, shouldn't there be one that doesn't completely suck? I'm 6'2", so a 29er should be a good choice for me...the main problem is the wheelbase, I ride an XL... and the slow handling characteristics.
    Last edited by griz; 07-27-2017 at 03:00 PM.

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    Ride faster!

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    The shorter the wheelbase the less stable the bike. There is a reason that the trend for bigger wheel bikes is long, low and slack. It is super stable and fun at speed. It doesn't feel great at slow speed, which Marin has a lot of. In fact there a few trails in the area that allow a modern bike to be really 'opened up". I'd suggest you demo a few 29ers in D-ville. Then judge the way that great feeling bike turned into a slug in Marin keeping in mind the fact that most of the trails in Marin suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I'm being serious. I've been demoing bikes for years, and I haven't found a 29er that is even somewhat comfortable on the trail. Ok, the original Ripley felt good on switchbacks, but the top tube was so short. I know that one ride isn't really enough time on a bike but, shouldn't there be one that doesn't completely suck? I'm 6'2", so a 29er should be a good choice for...the main problem is the wheelbase, and the slow handling characteristics.
    so what is your fav? 26?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx123 View Post
    so what is your fav? 26?
    with 3x10 and 610mm bars.

    Not that there's anything wrong withdat.
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    You're not doing it right. 6'2" is 29er territory and dedicated 29er riders are going to be pissed that you think the bikes suck. You'll be getting socks with this post

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    And I think the same for 27.5, but here I am, owing a 26, a 27.5, and a 29. Each has it's build purpose. There is no way I would consider riding anything other than 29 at Mission Peak. The climbing advantage is not a hype. Same on the decent, I literally blast the roots straight on and roll right through many nasty features.

    But at many DH oriented trails, the 27.5 and 26 simply are much faster on the decend and the corners allowing me to rip through them at higher speed.

    29, 27.5, or 26. None of them sucks, its just about getting the right tool for the right trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I'm being serious. I've been demoing bikes for years, and I haven't found a 29er that is even somewhat comfortable on the trail. Ok, the original Ripley felt good on switchbacks, but the top tube was so short. I know that one ride isn't really enough time on a bike but, shouldn't there be one that doesn't completely suck? I'm 6'2", so a 29er should be a good choice for...the main problem is the wheelbase, and the slow handling characteristics.
    It sucks for your experience so far because:
    - you want it to ride like your old 26er
    - you don't own one and have never allowed your body to adjust to the wheelbase and geometry
    - you keep trying long travel 29ers when you don't even like the short travel ones.

    Now forum guidelines says you should cross-post this same post in the 29er forum and put in your phone number.
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    In all seriousness though the other issue is just getting used to it. I ride everything from 20" bmx to 29" mtb. 29 can be maneuvered in tight spaces or wide, fast or slow, but I think you have to really commit and ride it every day to get the feel. Once you do I'm pretty certain you will agree. Also you might as well because 275 could be a close to dead standard soon based on how things are going (but imagine they would still be on bikes for our better halves and maybe smaller people? ).

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    The geometry is running away from you too Griz.

    One of the first FS 29ers I tested is this Intense with a 73 degree head angle ten years ago. It was designed to address the fears of 29er sluggishness. It sucked but it did give that 29er the feel of a 26er.

    Now their new bike has a 66 degree head angle.

    Why do 29ers still suck?-screen-shot-2017-07-27-2.05.05-pm.jpg
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    It's like a steamroller crossed with a penny farthing!

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    You just have to ride one for a week or so. But it is a tradeoff of nimbleness vs. plowability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    The shorter the wheelbase the less stable the bike. There is a reason that the trend for bigger wheel bikes is long, low and slack. It is super stable and fun at speed. It doesn't feel great at slow speed, which Marin has a lot of. In fact there a few trails in the area that allow a modern bike to be really 'opened up". I'd suggest you demo a few 29ers in D-ville. Then judge the way that great feeling bike turned into a slug in Marin keeping in mind the fact that most of the trails in Marin suck.
    From a 26" rider....🙄
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx123 View Post
    so what is your fav? 26?
    I sent in my post to Davey before I saw yours! Pretty sure he's still on one! 😜
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    The shorter the wheelbase the less stable the bike. There is a reason that the trend for bigger wheel bikes is long, low and slack. It is super stable and fun at speed. It doesn't feel great at slow speed, which Marin has a lot of. In fact there a few trails in the area that allow a modern bike to be really 'opened up". I'd suggest you demo a few 29ers in D-ville. Then judge the way that great feeling bike turned into a slug in Marin keeping in mind the fact that most of the trails in Marin suck.
    I hear ya...I've only done one 29er demo in Downieville; it was on the TallboyLT @ Mills Peak. That bike felt like a slug...and I was going downhill most of the time. It was really slow to accelerate out of tight corners. As far as Marin goes...I haven't been riding here that much, getting tired of the BS

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    Quote Originally Posted by DriverB View Post
    Ride faster!

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  17. #17
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    From a 26" rider....
    I've owned all 3 but whatever. Have fun pounding keyboards I'm taking my 27.5 hardtail out for a ride


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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    You're not doing it right. 6'2" is 29er territory and dedicated 29er riders are going to be pissed that you think the bikes suck. You'll be getting socks with this post
    I'm aware that I need to spend more time riding the demo bikes...eventually I'll get used to whatever I'm riding.
    fc never really gives out the socks...I'm still waiting for my package to arrive

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The geometry is running away from you too Griz.

    One of the first FS 29ers I tested is this Intense with a 73 degree head angle ten years ago. It was designed to address the fears of 29er sluggishness. It sucked but it did give that 29er the feel of a 26er.

    Now their new bike has a 66 degree head angle.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think I need a bike somewhere between those two...although, that top one looks nice

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    You just have to ride one for a week or so. But it is a tradeoff of nimbleness vs. plowability.
    You are correct. It's also going to depend on the terrain one is riding...oh yeah, I'm a one bike kinda guy...that's all I can afford.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    I sent in my post to Davey before I saw yours! Pretty sure he's still on one! 😜
    I wish I was still on my old Blur trc...unfortunately that bike broke, and Santa Cruz warrantied it with a 27.5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I'm being serious. I've been demoing bikes for years, and I haven't found a 29er that is even somewhat comfortable on the trail. Ok, the original Ripley felt good on switchbacks, but the top tube was so short. I know that one ride isn't really enough time on a bike but, shouldn't there be one that doesn't completely suck? I'm 6'2", so a 29er should be a good choice for me...the main problem is the wheelbase, I ride an XL... and the slow handling characteristics.
    The original Ripley with a 140 fork and a really knobby front tire is my favorite bike for anything short of a bike park. Climbs like crazy, good manners on the downhill with the slightly slacker fork, and as you note it's easy to get around switchbacks. I demoed it with the 120 fork and hated it - like an SLR but less travel. I ride the Ripley 5x as much as I ride my 160mm bike. I'm not anywhere near as tall as you, but am all torso and found my happy place with wide (730) bars and a 50 mm stem.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It sucks for your experience so far because:
    - you want it to ride like your old 26er
    - you don't own one and have never allowed your body to adjust to the wheelbase and geometry
    - you keep trying long travel 29ers when you don't even like the short travel ones.

    Now forum guidelines says you should cross-post this same post in the 29er forum and put in your phone number.
    Here you go fc...I posted this in the 29er forum

    Why do 29ers still suck

  24. #24
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    They don't, especially at your size. It's all in what you're looking for. The tallboy rode and felt exactly like my blur. They had the same spirit and target rider. The new long slack bikes are similar in 27.5 and 29er. As long you can keep wheel weight similar they will accelerate the same. Most people ride lower spec bikes with heavy wheels and hate them. Good wheels make the bike and should be an apples to apples comparison.
    I have all 3 sizes and the rollover of a 29er is amazing. I converted my blur 2 years ago to 27.5 and it's still a viable race bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexbn921 View Post
    They don't, especially at your size. It's all in what you're looking for. The tallboy rode and felt exactly like my blur. They had the same spirit and target rider. The new long slack bikes are similar in 27.5 and 29er. As long you can keep wheel weight similar they will accelerate the same. Most people ride lower spec bikes with heavy wheels and hate them. Good wheels make the bike and should be an apples to apples comparison.
    I have all 3 sizes and the rollover of a 29er is amazing. I converted my blur 2 years ago to 27.5 and it's still a viable race bike.
    I did a Hightower LT factory demo yesterday...it was horrible, I don't think I've ever ridden those trails so slow. The bike was impossible to turn.

    *Photo courtesy of skyno*
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Why do 29ers still suck?-img_1714.jpg  

    Last edited by griz; 07-28-2017 at 09:24 AM.

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    Griz have you considered some coaching? My buddy Dylan Renn will have you turning like a champ on that bike. Google: singletrackmind


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    Griz,you said you liked the original Ripley. This weekend in Truckee Ibis and Auburn Bike Company is doing this. You should check out the latest gen 3 Ripley on trail that don't suck. Maybe you can give us an update on Hole in the Ground


    Copied and pasted from ABC facebook page

    If you happen to be around Tahoe or Truckee Thursday through Sunday, we'll be up there demoing every day.
    We will be at the Alder Creek Adventure Center in Tahoe Donner this Thursday- Sunday.
    Bikes in attendance include the Ibis HD4, the Gen 3 Ripley and the Mojo 3. Come on by and check them out. ⠀
    Demo is free and we are encouraging a $20 donation to the Truckee Donner Land Trust. ⠀

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I've owned all 3 but whatever. Have fun pounding keyboards I'm taking my 27.5 hardtail out for a ride


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    Ok. Ok. Geeszh. I'll get you a beee next time we're at Brustop. 😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  29. #29
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    Griz, you are breaking the magic to me !!!!! I am demoing the st ht soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rollinrob View Post
    Griz,you said you liked the original Ripley. This weekend in Truckee Ibis and Auburn Bike Company is doing this. You should check out the latest gen 3 Ripley on trail that don't suck. Maybe you can give us an update on Hole in the Ground


    Copied and pasted from ABC facebook page

    If you happen to be around Tahoe or Truckee Thursday through Sunday, we'll be up there demoing every day.
    We will be at the Alder Creek Adventure Center in Tahoe Donner this Thursday- Sunday.
    Bikes in attendance include the Ibis HD4, the Gen 3 Ripley and the Mojo 3. Come on by and check them out. ⠀
    Demo is free and we are encouraging a $20 donation to the Truckee Donner Land Trust. ⠀
    Hey Rob,
    I did the Ibis demo at Alder Creek last year...I took out the Mojo 3 for 6 hours. The trails there are really basic, not a rock to be found. It was fun to ride somewhere different though

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    Quote Originally Posted by O5-KR View Post
    Griz, you are breaking the magic to me !!!!! I am demoing the st ht soon.
    Are you riding an XL? If your on a medium or large, the wheelbase should be much more tolerable

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    Medium.

    And with my 26" with the new fork set and waiting for me....

    Repeat a 1000 times: it is going to be a blast, it is going to be a blast, it is going to be a blast ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Hey Rob,
    I did the Ibis demo at Alder Creek last year...I took out the Mojo 3 for 6 hours. The trails there are really basic, not a rock to be found. It was fun to ride somewhere different though
    Did you make it out of the parking lot? Good god man, there's so much chunk within 10 mins riding from there you'll be glad your on those big wheels. Anyone demoing a bike there - ask for directions to Alder Hill trails, specifically one named after an imbibing ruminant. Point and shoot!

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    i just did a jeffsy demo in reno last weekend and it was fassssst
    took sometime getting use to it but it didn't feel like a wagon wheel at all
    Brad and his crew are super nice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    Did you make it out of the parking lot? Good god man, there's so much chunk within 10 mins riding from there you'll be glad your on those big wheels. Anyone demoing a bike there - ask for directions to Alder Hill trails, specifically one named after an imbibing ruminant. Point and shoot!
    Yeah, don't just follow the "Ibis Demo Loop" signs... unless you're demoing a cross bike

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    Why do 29ers still suck?

    If you haven't ridden with griz before, he's stupid fast on super tight twisty loose trails. Which is exactly the worst type of riding for a long 29er. So I can understand his hesitation.

    Honestly griz, just dump the idea and stay on 650b if you haven't found one you like. I'm slightly taller than you and I love 650b.


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    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Here you go fc...I posted this in the 29er forum

    Why do 29ers still suck
    hee hee... cool.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Ok. Ok. Geeszh. I'll get you a beee next time we're at Brustop. 😎
    Hey now if I could afford it my DH bike would be 27.5 and so would my 160mm bike. I have to settle with just the hardtail being 27.5

    So yeah since I have no money I'll take you up on that beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nilswalk View Post
    Yeah, don't just follow the "Ibis Demo Loop" signs... unless you're demoing a cross bike
    It was my first time there...Scot said there were good trails...the demo loop was lame. Next time I'll pm you guys before I ride there

  40. #40
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    I was on this ride when Griz was demoing the Hightower LT (thanks for the photo credit ). I've been riding with Griz kind of a lot lately on all different types of terrain so I'll give my perspective as an observer. I've ridden with a lot of people including many on this forum and Griz is one of the fastest riders I've ever ridden with. However, his style is that he likes to flick and throw the bike around to maneuver through trails especially when things get tight and technical. It seems to me that this bike is not well suited for that style of riding.

    He was still very fast on this bike but way slower than he is on his 5010. I know a lot of it comes down to getting used to a completely different bike with completely different geometry and way wider bars and a very low BB, but usually by the end of a really big ride you should be feeling way more comfortable and that wasn't the case here.

    My personal opinion is that, wheel size aside, a lot of these long, low, huge travel "Enduro" bikes coming out are not good for everyday trail riding and maybe they're not supposed to be? I did not really like riding the Nomad 3 on any trails in the bay area except a couple of very steep gnarly trails at Pacifica. It just felt way too much like a DH bike, too sluggish until things got pretty steep and rowdy then it was amazing! but for me it felt more like a DH bike than a trail bike.


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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I'm being serious. I've been demoing bikes for years, and I haven't found a 29er that is even somewhat comfortable on the trail. Ok, the original Ripley felt good on switchbacks, but the top tube was so short. I know that one ride isn't really enough time on a bike but, shouldn't there be one that doesn't completely suck? I'm 6'2", so a 29er should be a good choice for me...the main problem is the wheelbase, I ride an XL... and the slow handling characteristics.
    borrow my potts for a week or two. I'll bet you like it.

    Serious - come pick it up.
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    That's probably cuz you're not used to the tight and slow-mid speed tech that is prevalent on Marin's better trails. I can totally see the OP's point, and can only imagine what it would be like trying to get around some of those super tight switchbacks in a place like china camp on a modern XL 29ER!

    You're just going to have to make some tradeoffs... You can ride an old school SC Tallboy LT that has a much steeper HT, and probably gives you the ride characteristics you're looking for. I just got my first 29er (Large, Hightower), and while it's not great on tight switchbacks, I'm loving it on the rough and steep stuff-- a tradeoff I'd be willing to make any day of the week since switchbacks aren't the highlight of my ride ))

  43. #43
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    If you're looking for a fun and lively 29er that feels like you can whip it around like a 29, go test ride an Intense Primer. Really fun bike to ride and definitely has that playful and quick feeling some bigger wheeled bikes don't seem to have:

    Why do 29ers still suck?-primer.jpg

  44. #44
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    Didn't you HATE the Hightower?

    And you expected to like the Hightower LT that is longer, slacker and more travel??



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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    If you haven't ridden with griz before, he's stupid fast on super tight twisty loose trails. Which is exactly the worst type of riding for a long 29er. So I can understand his hesitation.
    I say stick with the 29er because of his size. Now I don't doubt for a second that he's a fast rider in the twisty's or anywhere else for that matter, but I know a great deal of dedicated 29er trail riders who would likely roll up on his wheel in the twists. Don't fall for the myth that the bikes are incapable.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    I say stick with the 29er because of his size. .
    That logic doesn't really work.

    The benefits of larger wheels, decreased angle of attack and better rolling momentum help smaller people *more* than larger people.

    Think about it - a bump of a given size is more impactful the smaller you are. Recognizing that a rider uses his arms and legs as suspension - a smaller person has less to work with. Thus bigger wheels actually help them more - not less.

    People misconstrue this based on visual que's - thinking taller people just look right with bigger wheels. It aint about looks.

    That said - 29'er's are great for everybody. :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Didn't you HATE the Hightower?

    And you expected to like the Hightower LT that is longer, slacker and more travel??



    16 lb Highball man. Wicked!!Click image for larger version. 

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    I had steve potts copy the highball geometry when he made my bike. I've since taken it down downieville and mills peak and it's amazing. Never thought a hardtail could be so capable.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  48. #48
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    A lot of people who dislike 29ers find the Primer and The Following to work for them from a playfulness standpoint. Assuming you don't need big travel.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    That logic doesn't really work.

    The benefits of larger wheels, decreased angle of attack and better rolling momentum help smaller people *more* than larger people.

    Think about it - a bump of a given size is more impactful the smaller you are. Recognizing that a rider uses his arms and legs as suspension - a smaller person has less to work with. Thus bigger wheels actually help them more - not less.

    People misconstrue this based on visual que's - thinking taller people just look right with bigger wheels. It aint about looks.

    That said - 29'er's are great for everybody. :-)
    Makes sense. I was thinking more from the visual aspect

    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    A lot of people who dislike 29ers find the Primer and The Following to work for them from a playfulness standpoint. Assuming you don't need big travel.
    Both are very similar to the Hightower. I think the HT has shorter chainstays and for me, felt more snappy because of it.

    Griz, have you ridden the new gen Tallboy?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Didn't you HATE the Hightower?

    And you expected to like the Hightower LT that is longer, slacker and more travel??



    16 lb Highball man. Wicked!!Click image for larger version. 

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    My highball is very nimble. Makes my 5010 feel slow in the turns.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  51. #51
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    So many playful 29ers out there....It definitely takes more than a demo ride to re-train yourself to shred on one of these sleds...

    I keep trying to come up with excuses to upgrade but my Evil Following is just absolutely amazing handling bike. Sounds like your riding technique needs to change for the 29er. I can get thru some switchbacks with huge speed and pull away from some of my way faster 27.5 buddies. Its all technique.

  52. #52
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    The original Tallboy and Epic are what sold me on 29ers. The grip in corners and roll over factor of the bigger wheels coupled with shorter travel and resulting trail feel really impressed me. I'm an admitted 29er fan but I cycle through my bike fleet pretty quickly and am changing wheel sizes depending on what's the it bike of the moment. I don't know that trying a long travel 29er like a Hightower LT is the right rig for winning someone over. You get a bike like that because you love big wheels and want more travel to roll over even more big shite, faster than your mid travel 29er. I think something like a Pivot 429 Trail or the Tallboy 3 might be the way to go Take it on a long ride over a variety of terrain. Some place like Annandel would be good. The Switchblade probably fits your riding style more but that bike will feel sluggish out of the gate ore at the apex of steep pitches. With cornering it takes time to get into the timing/rhythm of the bigger wheel as well as learning body position to let the bike fall away and rail those corners. I think if your core requirement of a bike is being able to bunny hop as high as possible then a 29er won't work but they say above you like speed and aggressive riding. If you spend enough time on a 29er you are going to bond with that bike and find a way to take it to your happy place.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Didn't you HATE the Hightower?

    And you expected to like the Hightower LT that is longer, slacker and more travel??



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    I didn't hate the Hightower, I thought it was a handful thru the tight twisty trails in SC. In fact, I think it felt better than the Bronson when I was descending the steep rutted out rooty trails.
    You can keep your single speed fully rigid death trap of a bike
    One last thing...if/when you make me a mod in the Ibis forum, maybe you can sign me up for the 29er forum too

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    Makes sense. I was thinking more from the visual aspect



    Both are very similar to the Hightower. I think the HT has shorter chainstays and for me, felt more snappy because of it.

    Griz, have you ridden the new gen Tallboy?
    I have not tried the new version of the Tallboy...I tried one about two years ago. I'll line one up to demo. Thanks

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TraxFactory View Post
    So many playful 29ers out there....It definitely takes more than a demo ride to re-train yourself to shred on one of these sleds...

    I keep trying to come up with excuses to upgrade but my Evil Following is just absolutely amazing handling bike. Sounds like your riding technique needs to change for the 29er. I can get thru some switchbacks with huge speed and pull away from some of my way faster 27.5 buddies. Its all technique.
    I am very aware that a 2-4 hr test ride isn't going to make me a convert but, that Hightower LT wasn't even fun.
    Sure, we were laughing on the trail...laughing at how wide the bars were, and why we couldn't keep the bike on the trail.

  56. #56
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    Hightower LT probably ins't the funnest 29er out there.
    Fun 29er short list:
    Tallboy 3
    Ripley 3
    following

    Getting some good wheels like santa cruz or ibis is key to reducing unsprung weight.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    ...
    You can keep your single speed fully rigid death trap of a bike
    Seriously I think Highballs are really under rated. Great bikes. My Highball has 120mm fork and 1x11 drive train. It is 21.9lbs. I is MUCH more nimble and better handling than my 5010. Downhill if there are turns the Highball is faster if it smooth and even rough if i really tight the Highball is fast. Once the trail gets rougher and I can go fast enough to take advantage of suspension the 5010 begins to shine. Point is a well set 29er HT can be very fast in turns. My 5010 is heavier, feels more streched out both on TT length (because it is) and due front wheel location. It does not turn as well since I have less weight up front . However in the chunk it does well.


    So if you think the 5010 is nimble then the Highball is crazy nimble. Faster or depends on rocks and roots. Now from size perspective things might be bit strange.

    Highball is medium - 90 mm stem
    5010 V1 is a large - 50 mm stem

    Both have the same reach, but the 5010's front wheel sticks way out front given 130mm fork and 68deg head angle. For me this my "enduro" bike.

    If you like an XL 5010 at 6'2" that is a small bike. I am 5'7".
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  58. #58
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    A lot of it has to do with the geo of the bike. Bikes are getting longer and slacker. My 29r with a 70 deg HTA feels way more "nimble" at slower speeds than my 27.5 with a 66 HTA. I've found that the slacker the bike...the more clumsy it feels at low speeds. At high speeds...the longer...slacker bikes will be more stable. That's where bike manufacturers seem to be going these days.

    Maybe find a 29r with a steeper HTA. I know that's going against what's cool...but it could be what you're looking for.

  59. #59
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    Yeah 29ers suck......





    Please. Stop. Sounds like user error....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    Please. Stop. Sounds like user error....
    THIS! It's the indian, not the arrow.

  61. #61
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    Why do 29ers still suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    Yeah 29ers suck......





    Please. Stop. Sounds like user error....
    Gonna try this in my demo. Bye guys, it has been a pleasure ! LoL

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    Yeah 29ers suck......





    Please. Stop. Sounds like user error....
    Where are the tight corners and trees in your pics? Those trails look rough and fun but, they look like wide open point and shoot style. A 29er is going to be great at that...that was never my issue. I assume you read the thread before posting?

  63. #63
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    Griz. Buy my 2011 Nomad. 26" wheels! Problem solved!

    https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2222292/


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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Where are the tight corners and trees in your pics? they look like wide open point and shoot style.
    plenty of very steep and tight corners on this trail. 29ers rip corners, its a myth that they can't.

    And yes I read the thread. Just sounds like pink bike comments from 4 years ago regarding 29ers...

  65. #65
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    Everyone has an uncle who can out shred you on his 26" Gary fisher with 600m handle bars and a fork that hasn't been serviced since 1986. Does that mean 29ers "suck" ? It just means thats what he likes to ride. No big deal- ride what you like!

    Your initial post categorizes an entire wheel size into "suck". Good riders can ride any bike on any trail and have fun. Fast pros (and sweet dudes on pink bike in general) seem to be preferring 29ers more across disciples. But if you like 26 or 275 and thats what fits your style go with it and don't feel bad about it.

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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    If you like an XL 5010 at 6'2" that is a small bike. I am 5'7".
    The XL 5010 is too small...that's why I'm looking for a new bike.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    And yes I read the thread. Just sounds like pink bike comments from 4 years ago regarding 29ers...
    Sounds like the people on Pinkbike might have known something

  68. #68
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    Fuel for the fire.


  69. #69
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    You know what fixes all problems with 29ers? Riding them it's not a 26rr it's not going to ever feel like them. You just need to get out and put some miles on one. The modern ones are pretty amazing I'm currently on a yeti 5.5 coming off an Evil Insurgent it blows the evil out of the water in all categories.

    Having the right stack and fit is half the battle. The. Having the suspension adjusted and tuned properly is the other half.


    Tires and pressure can have a lot to do with how the bike is feeling on the trail. This can become every more noticeable with carbon rims.

    Don't be scared jump in the 29er water is nice!

  70. #70
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    I'm not scared, that's why I'm test riding as many as I can get my hands on. I just don't want to scare everyone off...because when I jump in, I'm gonna be naked

  71. #71
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    I would check out the Jeffsy 29. I was wary of a 29er feeling like a big rig in tight technical terrain (e.g., backside of China Camp), but after a bit of an adjustment, I've found the Jeffsy to feel more nimble than my 27.5 Burner. After 6 weeks, I'm still adjusting to the new bike, but I'm having just as much fun and am just as fast, and faster in some situations, on the 29er.


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  72. #72
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    I love my 26in SC TRC. A few years ago there was a demo day at Santa Teresa and I demo'd a 29er. Loved it on Rocky Ridge, hated it on the switchbacks on Stiles. Though, I definitely wasn't used to it, maybe with a bit more practice the tight switchbacks of Stiles would easier, but I felt like I was driving a truck.

    If a 29er would make going up RR (no dab) a cinch, I'd get one in a second.

  73. #73
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    Why do 29ers still suck?

    Griz just get a yeti 4.5. You can put your water bottle under the down tube.


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  74. #74
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    I was also at the TD Ibis demo on Thursday. Mother Lode and Hidden Gem are fun if you missed those.

    I'll throw in the idea of the Tallboy 3. I just replaced my Canfield Yelli Screamy with one. It's got super short 17" chainstays and, as a result, it's agile in switchbacks and quick to accelerate. Get yourself an XL. You can fit in a water bottle too. You don't need much travel in Marin because there just aren't that many wide open downhills aside from some of the illegal stuff. I built mine up with a 130mm fork for the head angle (67.5 with 29er wheels). I ride my TB3 in Marin, the peninsula, and certain places in Tahoe, like the Tahoe Donner network and the areas around Alder Creek. Other spots I go for the enduro bike.

    Other bikes I considered were the SB4.5 and Ripley, but the chainstays and ability to run B+ sold me on the TB3.
    Last edited by SikeMo; 07-30-2017 at 10:33 PM.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    plenty of very steep and tight corners on this trail. 29ers rip corners, its a myth that they can't.

    And yes I read the thread. Just sounds like pink bike comments from 4 years ago regarding 29ers...
    How was Aspen? You ride the Jeffsy there?

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    The XL 5010 is too small...that's why I'm looking for a new bike.
    That is your problem. Going from a bike that is "Too small" to one that fits will always feel different. You have adapted on the "Too small" bike and probably get alot out it. Moving to one that "Fits" feels awkward because it so much bigger. It feels bigger because it is bigger because the only one is too small.

    Even so you are probably better suited to a 68 or at most 67 deg head angle bike. Going slacker will keep pushing that front wheel out. And stick to 130/140 mm forks for the same reason. 150/160 bikes in XL frame sizes and 66 deg angles get very long. They can rip on fast, steep, straight downhills, but suffer in the turns.

    BTW..
    Hightower LT

    150mm fork, 66 deg headangle. = Sluggish.

    Hightower
    140mm fork, 67 deg headangle = less sluggish


    Tallboy
    130 fork 68 deg headangle = responsive and the same geometry as the first generation Solo/5010
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by SikeMo View Post
    How was Aspen? You ride the Jeffsy there?
    Looks like fun.

  78. #78
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    Griz getting a new bike is good for a million page views.

    More enigma than Stranger Things.

    Why do 29ers still suck
    IPA will save America

  79. #79
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    I would suggest the Mach 5.5 27.5 wheeled bike. It's like your 5010 but way better and more capable on the top end and big road trips.

    Pivot Mach 5.5 Carbon first ride review - Mtbr.com

    Why do 29ers still suck?-francis-8489-900x6001.jpg

    Don't force the issue with 29ers.

    The Mach 5.5 is a quick and capable bike designed for 2.6 tires on 27.5. But you can put smaller tires too to adjust handling.
    IPA will save America

  80. #80
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    Still sucking....


  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    Still sucking....

    Who is that riding? Doesn't say anywhere


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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I would suggest the Mach 5.5 27.5 wheeled bike. It's like your 5010 but way better and more capable on the top end and big road trips.

    Pivot Mach 5.5 Carbon first ride review - Mtbr.com

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Don't force the issue with 29ers.

    The Mach 5.5 is a quick and capable bike designed for 2.6 tires on 27.5. But you can put smaller tires too to adjust handling.
    Met someone with this bike yesterday at SC and she loved it. She also has 2 other Pivots and says this one is the best all around bike.

  83. #83
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    Test ride every type of bike out there until you find a platform that is comfortable and suitable for your riding style. Period. Long white socks or not, everyone has a riding preference (Onza bar ends on 580mm wide flat bars, for example). To each their own; to find “one’s own”, requires trying new cockpit and configuration layouts. At 6'0" tall I own a 24+ (2.5 - 3.0") bike, two 26+ (3.8 - 4.8", 760 - 780mm bars), and one 29er. They all have unique riding and handling characteristics. The 24+ is lively. The fatbikes are lively + controllable at speed on any terrain. The 29er is laser precise on carving turns and being faster on flats and uphills. My observations will vary considerably from everyone else’s… but I am trying to put out there the notion that different bike layouts/geometry need to be explored before you make your mind up on one bike.
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  84. #84
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    Why do 29ers still suck?

    Quote Originally Posted by DriverB View Post
    In all seriousness though the other issue is just getting used to it. I ride everything from 20" bmx to 29" mtb. 29 can be maneuvered in tight spaces or wide, fast or slow, but I think you have to really commit and ride it every day to get the feel. Once you do I'm pretty certain you will agree. Also you might as well because 275 could be a close to dead standard soon based on how things are going (but imagine they would still be on bikes for our better halves and maybe smaller people? ).

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    Says who? Plenty of companies are still making 650b and I don't see that changing.

    I swear this whole thread sounds like one of the rules from the NSMB video on how to be a mountain biker.

    "There are three wheel sizes. Now pick one and be a dick about it."

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffsterb View Post
    Who is that riding? Doesn't say anywhere


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    It's a Trail Peek video so the Petersen brothers. Dane in front and Zach with the camera.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    Still sucking....

    I would love those trails...they're so wide open with no trees; it's almost like a freeway...bring on the wide handlebars.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I would love those trails...they're so wide open with no trees; it's almost like a freeway...bring on the wide handlebars.
    Sounds like you have a handlebar size problem, not a wheel size problem. 😁

  88. #88
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    I have many issues...this might not be the proper place to discuss them.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I have many issues...this might not be the proper place to discuss them.
    There's the herpes thread.... 🤢

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Says who? Plenty of companies are still making 650b and I don't see that changing.
    I recently listened to an interview with Joe Graney from Santa Cruz where he pretty much predicted the whole industry will eventually end up 29er dominated.

    I've never owned a 29er, but I think he might be right.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I recently listened to an interview with Joe Graney from Santa Cruz where he pretty much predicted the whole industry will eventually end up 29er dominated.

    I've never owned a 29er, but I think he might be right.
    All this does is create a false demand and just give people another reason to buy yet another bike. You can still find 26", 650b, 650B+, and even 7, 8, and 9 speed drive train parts today. There will always be a demand for older stuff--even if some c-level "predicts" what's going to happen. Things do come full circle--even AL bikes has a cult following these days. I can't afford a new bike every 2-3 years anymore with rising costs on BS like new wheel standards, so I'm being very selective of what I buy because it needs to last me at least 5-7 years, if not longer.

    Maybe for trail riding, but it's going to do dumb things like get rid of entire markets. Not everyone likes to ride a 29er, and as a relatively short person by today's long TT BS (I ride an XS on bikes that make them that small, which is dumb sizing since I'm 5'4", provided I can find something at all), I don't find I enjoy riding 29ers at all. There are some shorter folks who do, but I'm not one. They feel unwieldy to me, and they are difficult for me to accelerate. I have a hard enough time getting a 650b started, but I think it's a good wheel size for me.

    The only 29er I felt remotely comfortable on was the Ripley OG, but those were only available for a short time and I missed my window (or the time I spend riding trails). Now Ibis doesn't even make the newer Ripleys in a small. This is just an example--I'm not ragging on Ibis, but this is just a symptom of the industry.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    All this does is create a false demand and just give people another reason to buy yet another bike. You can still find 26", 650b, 650B+, and even 7, 8, and 9 speed drive train parts today. There will always be a demand for older stuff--even if some c-level "predicts" what's going to happen. Things do come full circle--even AL bikes has a cult following these days. I can't afford a new bike every 2-3 years anymore with rising costs on BS like new wheel standards, so I'm being very selective of what I buy because it needs to last me at least 5-7 years, if not longer.

    Maybe for trail riding, but it's going to do dumb things like get rid of entire markets. Not everyone likes to ride a 29er, and as a relatively short person by today's long TT BS (I ride an XS on bikes that make them that small, which is dumb sizing since I'm 5'4", provided I can find something at all), I don't find I enjoy riding 29ers at all. There are some shorter folks who do, but I'm not one. They feel unwieldy to me, and they are difficult for me to accelerate. I have a hard enough time getting a 650b started, but I think it's a good wheel size for me.

    The only 29er I felt remotely comfortable on was the Ripley OG, but those were only available for a short time and I missed my window (or the time I spend riding trails). Now Ibis doesn't even make the newer Ripleys in a small. This is just an example--I'm not ragging on Ibis, but this is just a symptom of the industry.
    5'-6" here have ridden a few 29r ht's and fs just rode a small Ripley OG(btw what's that acronym anyway...Bueller??...) and I found it to be the best "sitting in" vs "on top of" bike
    feeling yet.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    5'-6" here have ridden a few 29r ht's and fs just rode a small Ripley OG(btw what's that acronym anyway...Bueller??...) and I found it to be the best "sitting in" vs "on top of" bike
    feeling yet.
    Original Generation Ripley. Not sure why the Ibis forum uses it, because everything subsequently has been an LS.

    Yeah I just don't dig the 29er feel. It took me forever to ride 650b but it was easier to find an enjoyable bike or so in 650b. Two of my bikes are 650b, and the one I'm building up for pump track/DJ is 26".

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I would suggest the Mach 5.5 27.5 wheeled bike. It's like your 5010 but way better and more capable on the top end and big road trips.

    Pivot Mach 5.5 Carbon first ride review - Mtbr.com

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Don't force the issue with 29ers.

    The Mach 5.5 is a quick and capable bike designed for 2.6 tires on 27.5. But you can put smaller tires too to adjust handling.
    Hook a brother up... Wait a minute, there are based out of Arizona...that means I'd have to rely upon a bike shop
    Last edited by griz; 08-01-2017 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Brain fart

  95. #95
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    I draw pretty pictures of bikes. They look so fast on paper....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pvd View Post
    I draw pretty pictures of bikes. They look so fast on paper....
    Don't be shy Pete...I'm sure you have an opinion

  97. #97
    pvd
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    Ha.

    2018 Transition Sentinel.

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    Bingo. Can't wait for that one to come out. Also dig the lines and geo of the Orbea Rallon M

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk
    Marin County, CA

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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    All this does is create a false demand and just give people another reason to buy yet another bike.
    As if anyone needs any help with that!

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    I'm a bit disappointed with the NorCal forum. I posted this in the 29er forum...168 replies; one guy wants to impeach me

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