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  1. #176
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    Generally you drift the rear to scrub speed, tighten your turning radius and/or setup to bust a berm. Sometimes you also do it just for fun, like slashing on a snowboard, which these guys are doing a bit of in that video as well.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Could someone describe the how and why for the little sideways counter-steer slide that they do before entering a turn? I've seen it done before and would like to learn it for scrubbing off speed, apparently?
    Yes, like at 1:18. I've only ever been able to do something approximating that by accident
    It reminds me of how I will often set myself up for a hard turn when skiing, winding up energy to snap around the other way. Curious to hear thoughts on this.

  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Yes, like at 1:18. I've only ever been able to do something approximating that by accident
    It reminds me of how I will often set myself up for a hard turn when skiing, winding up energy to snap around the other way. Curious to hear thoughts on this.
    Perhaps this is fine in places like Northstar or Whistler, or in lands which are mountain bike friendly, or trails which are not prone to erosion. But in my local riding area, he skid marks left on the trail do not help our image. Especially when they are left all over hiking-only trails showcasing illegal use. If people are gonna break the rules, they need to at least be stealth about it. (As a side note: I might have the name shredchic, but I don't condone the literal shredding of trails. It's just a moniker from my snowboarding days.)

    ...just want to add - certainly not a rant directed at anyone here. I just came across obvious skid marks on some hiking-only trails this morning (I was on foot, btw).
    Last edited by shredchic; 11-16-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Could someone describe the how and why for the little sideways counter-steer slide that they do before entering a turn? I've seen it done before and would like to learn it for scrubbing off speed, apparently?
    As for how:

    - To initiate, turn the handlebar in the opposite direction you are intending to turn, initiating with your inside hand (ie, if you're planning on turning right, press down with your right hand, turning the bars slightly left, your bike will naturally fall/lean to the right)
    - Unweight the rear end of the bike by shifting your weight forward. This should be a very controlled movement as to some extent you control the drift with your weight distribution.
    - Whip the rear end out with your hips if necessary (ie busting a berm)

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurp View Post
    As for how:

    - To initiate, turn the handlebar in the opposite direction you are intending to turn, initiating with your inside hand (ie, if you're planning on turning right, press down with your right hand, turning the bars slightly left, your bike will naturally fall/lean to the right)
    - Unweight the rear end of the bike by shifting your weight forward. This should be a very controlled movement as to some extent you control the drift with your weight distribution.
    - Whip the rear end out with your hips if necessary (ie busting a berm)
    Surface conditions also affect how well the above technique works.
    For example, a loose surface material, such as gravel or bark, will allow the bike to drift with minimal rider input...just center your weight, and get ready to use your inside hand to push the bar into a counter-steer when the tires let go. Quite fun, once you get the hang of it.

    With the skiing question...sort of. When linking fast carving turns (on skis or bike), such as in a slalom course, throwing (as in leaning..lurching forwards on a bike at 20+ mph halfway through a slick turn usually ends poorly) your weight into the next turn speeds up the transition from edge to edge (skis or tires). The difference is: skiing=hips forward or out; bike=hips turned into the turn.

    And living in a mtb-friendly area helps...especially if people do trail maintenance.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurp View Post
    Generally you drift the rear to scrub speed, tighten your turning radius and/or setup to bust a berm. Sometimes you also do it just for fun, like slashing on a snowboard, which these guys are doing a bit of in that video as well.
    That's all fine if you built the trail and maintain it. You are sliding around on your own trail. Aren't you. Coming into the corner at the right speed and a little 2 wheel drift with no brakes is a win for me.

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    That's all fine if you built the trail and maintain it. You are sliding around on your own trail. Aren't you. Coming into the corner at the right speed and a little 2 wheel drift with no brakes is a win for me.
    Actually I usually do it on illegal trails and mostly to try and roost mud on hikers...and babies.

  8. #183
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    Yeeeeaaaa Boyyyyy!

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Perhaps this is fine in places like Northstar or Whistler, or in lands which are mountain bike friendly, or trails which are not prone to erosion.
    Fair enough, but still, I love the looks of this move and want to learn the skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by gurp View Post
    As for how:

    - To initiate, turn the handlebar in the opposite direction you are intending to turn, initiating with your inside hand (ie, if you're planning on turning right, press down with your right hand, turning the bars slightly left, your bike will naturally fall/lean to the right)
    - Unweight the rear end of the bike by shifting your weight forward. This should be a very controlled movement as to some extent you control the drift with your weight distribution.
    - Whip the rear end out with your hips if necessary (ie busting a berm)
    Quote Originally Posted by CSC View Post
    Surface conditions also affect how well the above technique works.
    For example, a loose surface material, such as gravel or bark, will allow the bike to drift with minimal rider input...just center your weight, and get ready to use your inside hand to push the bar into a counter-steer when the tires let go. Quite fun, once you get the hang of it.

    With the skiing question...sort of. When linking fast carving turns (on skis or bike), such as in a slalom course, throwing (as in leaning..lurching forwards on a bike at 20+ mph halfway through a slick turn usually ends poorly) your weight into the next turn speeds up the transition from edge to edge (skis or tires). The difference is: skiing=hips forward or out; bike=hips turned into the turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by gurp View Post
    Generally you drift the rear to scrub speed, tighten your turning radius and/or setup to bust a berm. Sometimes you also do it just for fun, like slashing on a snowboard, which these guys are doing a bit of in that video as well.
    Good descriptions. Any more insights on the linking of the two moves (in this case, the right wheel kick out first, then right hand turn following on that). It seems that this first move is probably not done with as much lean as the second part. I guess I'll have to try (and wreck a few times probably).

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Fair enough, but still, I love the looks of this move and want to learn the skill.

    Good descriptions. Any more insights on the linking of the two moves (in this case, the right wheel kick out first, then right hand turn following on that). It seems that this first move is probably not done with as much lean as the second part. I guess I'll have to try (and wreck a few times probably).
    I'd say that the rear wheel stepping out and the right hand counter steering occur at the same time...unless you are purposefully locking the back, sliding into a turn, then counter steering, though usually your back tire will hook up before you get to counter-steer much.

    I'd say find a flat gravel road, and practice linking turn over the gravel strip that runs down the middle. That way you get a chance to slide around a bit, but if you over do it, your tires will catch you in the tire wash (the packed part where cars drive). And a bit of blood is part of the sport...I'll never forget the time I came in hot into a hard 90 degree, off-camber, freshly paved corner at 25 mph and my bike let go...road rash, cut lip, chipped tooth, and sprained thumb (it got caught in between the brake lever and the handlebar...not sure how).

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Fair enough, but still, I love the looks of this move and want to learn the skill.







    Good descriptions. Any more insights on the linking of the two moves (in this case, the right wheel kick out first, then right hand turn following on that). It seems that this first move is probably not done with as much lean as the second part. I guess I'll have to try (and wreck a few times probably).
    You love the looks? If you just go out and skid and try to whip the rear of the bike on local cross country trails youre just gonna look like a tool.
    Last edited by Yody; 08-02-2014 at 09:27 AM.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by gurp View Post
    Actually I usually do it on illegal trails and mostly to try and roost mud on hikers...and babies.
    I bet your tires are made from Baby Seal skin too..........
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Fair enough, but still, I love the looks of this move and want to learn the skill.
    For cornering, since we live in the Bay Area, I would suggest working on your pump track skills and earn traction in a corner where there is none. It is a beautiful thing and you will ride much faster without breaking traction.

    For looking good, the key thing to learn is going sideways in mid-air or steering in mid-air. Aside from looking awesome, it actually has a very good purpose. It releases and directs flight energy where needed. And it prepares the bike and body for any incidents on take-off, mid-air or landing. Most of us xc rider jump stiff and are dead sails in the air. If something goes wrong on take-off, we are dead meat since we have no skill to make adjustments.

    Look at Pombo's video really closely and you'll see he all the tools.

    Also, this is very, very informative.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    I bet your tires are made from Baby Seal skin too..........

    And filled with unicorn blood to prevent punctures.

    But in all seriousness, the video above is well done, and brings up a few concepts that some of you can pull from skiing (people keep trying to tie these two sports together).

    With jumping, skiing and mtb are very similar. When going for altitude on a bike, you want to spring off the lip of the jump. This is accomplished by loading the bike's suspension and your body. On skis, we load up our take-off by flexing our knees and hips, then extending our bodies as we leave the kicker.

    At higher speeds, when there is a chance of "over jumping", or if we want to resume ground contact sooner (at high or low speeds), allowing the bike to rise up into your body will keep your overall center of mass closer to the ground, shortening your flight distance. This is similar to allowing your skis and knees to rise up over a jump, but forcing your torso to remain at the same level, effectively flattening your flight arc.

    Here's an example for the skiers (0:35 for example) Visa Ski Cross Finals - YouTube

    Same concept...lead with the hands.

    I think jumping causes problems because so many of us started by hopping off of curbs, which are great ramps, but with flat landing zones. This encourages landing on both wheels (or even the back, to reduce the impact), and discourages landing on the front wheel first, which is the proper way to land a purpose-built jump.

    An exercise I found helpful is to ride down a sidewalk like you are going to hop off the little ramps after a driveway, but instead of jumping, let the bike roll over the ramp. This helps get you used to the feeling of keeping your body centered over the bike in an active, instead of locked, position (in order to keep the front tire from flying up in the air, you need some forward weight, which you obtain by leading with your hands). Once you get used to this sensation, a larger jump is just a larger version of the same motion.
    Last edited by CSC; 11-19-2012 at 01:00 PM.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    You love the looks? Thats a pretty ghey thing to say. If you suck at cornering and just go out and skid and try to whip the rear of the bike on local cross country trails youre just gonna look like a tool.
    Plus one. Any decent rider will think. Idiot.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    You love the looks? Thats a pretty ghey thing to say. If you suck at cornering and just go out and skid and try to whip the rear of the bike on local cross country trails youre just gonna look like a tool.
    easy there cha cha. let me rephrase - it looks fun.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    easy there cha cha. let me rephrase - it looks fun.
    I know man. Some dudes are so aggro before their first beer.

    fc

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    easy there cha cha. let me rephrase - it looks fun.
    Of course it looks fun. Dropping your pants in public is fun but it's not something we generally strive to learn.

    That reminds me. I need to drop pants in public more.
    Point is sliding is unacceptable.

  19. #194
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    Nothing has taught me more about bike handling than BMX. Especially flatland (ground tricks).

    Balance, center of gravity, how to turn with handlebar input, etc. We have a move in flatland BMX called "turbine" which is spinning in place, and that is all handlebar input, leaning, and everything you guys are describing.

    Something as simple and basic trials riding, like rock walks, and then moving up to 360˙ bunny hops, all requires timing, handlebar and weight input, etc. even being able to track stand, lift the front wheel and pedal-drop off a ledge is SUPER handy to have. How many of us can complete a true pedal drop without landing face first? Start on curbs and work your way up.

    I would recommend to any and all to go out and spend some time riding trials at a local highschool with a platform stage, even with the bike you normally ride (especially what you normally ride). A BMX or dirt jump is awesome to have - I wish more adults wouldn't shy away from riding BMX, a 20" on a pump track pays gigantic dividends.

    My climbing may suck, but one thing I got going for myself is bike handling. I'm glad I learned that at a very early age. I was riding pump tracks, pools, half-pipes, trials, and flatland at the age of 13. It has really influenced my bike handling today. Point me up a fire road - well, those who have ridden with me know what that is like (), but give me any technical terrain that requires balance, bar input, track standing, wheel position, jumps, drops, bunnyhops, wall rides, etc. and I will ride the hell out of it with a grin.

    Sometimes, I'll go to a local school with planter boxes, stages, etc. in their quad on a weekend, and just practice pedal drops, climbing stairs sideways by side hopping, pedal-ups, rolling drops, 180˙ rollbacks, rock-walks, etc. so come that technical rocky section, I can navigate without hike-a-bike due to rocky conditions.

  20. #195
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    if you want to be better at swimming, you swim...
    if you want to get better at bowling, you bowl..
    if you want to get better at skating, you skate...

    Nothing has taught me more about cornering than to ride my mountain bike on fast dirt trail with a lot of different corners. Flat, bermed, rutted, loose, rocky, hardpack, etc.. and tell yourself "Cornering is FUN". There is no better feeling than punching a corner and slingshotting out of it with more exit speed than entry speed

    - Ride them often
    - Ride them faster and faster
    - Concentrate on your braking (or lack of), body position, entry, apex, exit, etc.
    - Ride the same corners using different lines. Don't always take the Vecro line
    - Look where you want to go, which is the exit of the corner
    - Bend your knees and elbows. Weight centered but you need to ride aggressively (eg chin over stem) if you want to corner with confidence.
    - Ride, Ride, Ride...and ride some more.

    Also pay attention to your suspension setup, tire choice and pressure. You might have a good cornering technique but if your bike isn't setup right or if you run too much air in your tires, it will hinder traction. Remember that tries don't have traction if you brake in corners - learn to trust your tires and do your braking before entering the corner.

    I don't consider a trail "fun" unless there are a good amount of fast corners that flow.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    Of course it looks fun. Dropping your pants in public is fun but it's not something we generally strive to learn.

    That reminds me. I need to drop pants in public more.
    Point is sliding is unacceptable.
    You like dropping your pants in public?

    Point is dragging a locked rear wheel around a trail is...easy...

    Drifting is fun (though tricky...takes some practice).

    Find a gravel or bark-chip path with some turns, and get used to letting both wheels let go...without using any brake in-put.

    I learned much of what I know about cornering while messing around on snow-packed streets in the winter time. The snow is surprisingly consistent, i.e, hit a turn at 15 mph, and you will slide in a similar way every time. The reduced friction also takes away the assumed need to use braking force to begin a drift...just come into a turn in a balanced, active position (butt off of seat, knees and arms bent according to the above vids, and weight centered), lean a bit, and hang on.

    Ice is NOT a good surface to learn how to drift...though it teaches balance.

    Also, the above works with tires with some knobs on the edge...I'd take it easy on bmx/cx/road tires.

  22. #197
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    [QUOTE=CSC;9891402]You like dropping your pants in public? :skep
    Never laughed harder in my life than running half drunk down the street with a party of guys and girls.

    Ice is NOT a good surface to learn how to drift...
    Works for me.

    ice019 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr


    ice015 by Huck Pitueee, on Flickr

  23. #198
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    [QUOTE=Huck Pitueee;9892142]
    Quote Originally Posted by CSC View Post
    You like dropping your pants in public? :skep
    Never laughed harder in my life than running half drunk down the street with a party of guys and girls.

    Ice is NOT a good surface to learn how to drift...
    Works for me.
    Cheater...you got studs on those tires

  24. #199
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    [QUOTE=CSC;9892261]
    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post

    Cheater...you got studs on those tires
    Home made studded tires rock. They get more fun when the studs get duller so you can corner with the rear wheel lit. I'd love to see people race on ice hockey rinks! It could be a whole new fringe sport.

  25. #200
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    this is one of the better threads on any bike site!! Awesome collection of info and advice! I wish I could pos rep all of you!!
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

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