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  1. #76
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    I just watch a few of these videos and my form/technique blows. I've been working on my cornering and descending skills lately... Years of bad cornering technique have been hard to break. I am looking forward to working on some or these tips @ Skeggs tonight.

    WRT the dropper seat post. I put a dropper on my main suspension bike awhile back and it has completely changed my riding. I doubt I will build another MTB that doesn't have a dropper on it. Even on my 29er SS, I find that dropping the seat down a bit makes it much easier to throw around corners and handles less like a truck on tight switchbacks.

    Thanks all for the tips and videos.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    On the point of #4...
    I'm still not all that sold on a lower seat for cornering. Steeps and drops, yeah. After years I'll concede the point on that one, but not sure on the cornering aspect.

    Of course I'm thinking about getting one of those dropper post things in the near future, so I'm sure my opinion on this matter will change shortly after I get one.
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.
    Plus one! If I could only make my seat and seat post disappear with a switch.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    5" is a large amount to "need" ....even on full suspension if your bike is sized right I cant imagine having 7" of seat post (the dropper posts have about 2 - 3 inches that don't go down into the seat tube. I'm 6'7" with a 23" frame and my 4" dropper is barely raised.....just wondering if a lot of folks really have a need for even 5" of seat post if it isn't a dropper??
    I find that I begin to need a lower seat post on steeper hills. The steeper the hill, the more you have to shift your body weight back. On less steep hills, you don't have to move as far back. It's about being in *neutral* position relative to the front & back wheels. It's true that on most hills, my 4" dropper is more than adequate. But on steeper hills, (like Braille or Game trail), my seat even fully dropped is still in the way. I find I have to adjust the seat height ahead of time with my quick release. There is no harm in a seat post that is too low on a downhill, but believe me - there is harm if it is too high. IMO, just go for the lowest drop you can get, (probably 5" is enough for most of us - 7" for serious downhill or freeride) with an option to stop it 1 or 2 inches from the top for less steep, more rolling terrain and your covered.

    Yody -
    "A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down."

    Seat post droppers should not be used as a crutch for bad form. They are supposed to assist good form, i.e. neutral position. You don't drop your post so you can sit lower, you drop your seat post so it is out of the way when you are standing in your pedals in proper neutral position. On the flip side - I do not think it is even possible to ride down a hill in correct form while the seat is up in climbing position. If the hill is not extremely steep, plenty of people will clear it just fine, but that's not the same thing as descending smoothly in good form, and certainly would not work to your advantage in a downhill race.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    5" is a large amount to "need" ....even on full suspension if your bike is sized right I cant imagine having 7" of seat post (the dropper posts have about 2 - 3 inches that don't go down into the seat tube. I'm 6'7" with a 23" frame and my 4" dropper is barely raised.....just wondering if a lot of folks really have a need for even 5" of seat post if it isn't a dropper??
    I'm just under 5'6" and run 5" reverbs on 2 bikes. I have no problem using all the travel. I could even go 150mm droppers and still have room to use all the post travel.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    /snip
    Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. /snip

    Some food for thought
    That.

    Only time in recent memory that I had lowered my seat was last trip down braille. Of course that process involves finding a 5mm allen wrench, loosening the seat collar and dropping it six inches. Heck, when I got to Downieville I don't recall lowering it much there.

    Of course I'm still a tallentless hack on a bike.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought
    I would agree with this. There are plenty of people much faster than me that ride with a high post. I have the much maligned Command Post which I like because it has three positions. I tend to ride fully extended for all climbing and smooth roller coaster-ish XC. I ride at middle drop for rougher XC and some technical climbing and I ride fully dropped when I know the trail is pointed downhill for an extended period of time.

    BD (before dropper) I would use the old school method of hanging off the back seat on anything remotely steep. AD, I'm able to get away from that and sorta squat down into the middle of the suspension which gives you much more control in the steep and techy stuff. I'm not a big hucker or anything but my confidence on booters and drops is infinitely higher with the dropper post. As far as cornering, I feel it's just much easier to throw your weight around with the dropper post. It doesn't make me a bada$$ but it's definitely improved my riding overall.

  9. #84
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    Yah for sure, im all about the seat dropper. Was just throwing that out there for anyone reading, to think about.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought
    There are plenty of people that can rip down a hill on a hard tail with a 100mm fork too, doesn't mean it's bad form to use full suspension. People starting today wont need to learn how to ride with a rigid seat post if they don't want to, wont make them less of a mtn biker, just means they didn't learn the old school ways. It's not bad form to lower the seat is it?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    I'm just under 5'6" and run 5" reverbs on 2 bikes. I have no problem using all the travel. I could even go 150mm droppers and still have room to use all the post travel.
    I guess I didn't think frame sizes would allow that much seat post while still being able to reach the pedals .... Guess you could always get a frame size smaller if you wanted to run more of a drop post........just seems if you have 7" of post being utilized from collar to seat then you're probably sitting quite a bit higher than your handlebars..........hmmm.....not a comfortable riding position for me....

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    There are plenty of people that can rip down a hill on a hard tail with a 100mm fork too, doesn't mean it's bad form to use full suspension. People starting today wont need to learn how to ride with a rigid seat post if they don't want to, wont make them less of a mtn biker, just means they didn't learn the old school ways. It's not bad form to lower the seat is it?
    You are missing my.point

  13. #88
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    Hmmm, read it again and still don't get it. You are saying that relying on a dropper is bad form. I'm comparing that to relying on full suspension. If lowering the seat helps with cornering and the dropper is available wouldn't the technique that you practice be using the tools that your bike has? Cornering with a bike that doesn't have a dropper is different for sure and therefore you would use different techniques correct?

    I'm not trying to troll or even argue, I just dont understand how it's "bad form" to rely on a dropper post?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Hmmm, read it again and still don't get it. You are saying that relying on a dropper is bad form. I'm comparing that to relying on full suspension. If lowering the seat helps with cornering and the dropper is available wouldn't the technique that you practice be using the tools that your bike has? Cornering with a bike that doesn't have a dropper is different for sure and therefore you would use different techniques correct?

    I'm not trying to troll or even argue, I just dont understand how it's "bad form" to rely on a dropper post?
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.

  15. #90
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    Man, after reading this thread, I did my normal tour de waterdog last night. I really focused on rotating my hips and trying to practice the tips mentioned here and it made a huge difference. I can't wait until this stuff becomes second nature and I don't even think about it. I can't believe how incorrectly I've been riding my bike for the last 8 years or so. Thanks for all of the tips/pointers/advice everyone!

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by maleonardphi View Post
    Man, after reading this thread, I did my normal tour de waterdog last night. I really focused on rotating my hips and trying to practice the tips mentioned here and it made a huge difference. I can't wait until this stuff becomes second nature and I don't even think about it. I can't believe how incorrectly I've been riding my bike for the last 8 years or so. Thanks for all of the tips/pointers/advice everyone!
    Planting the outside foot is finding me some great traction.

    I think we've all been getting faster with courage and trail familiarity over the years but technique can be neglected. This year, I started paying attention to my cornering and I'm seeing renewed learning and confidence.

    fc

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Planting the outside foot is finding me some great traction.

    I think we've all been getting faster with courage and trail familiarity over the years but technique can be neglected. This year, I started paying attention to my cornering and I'm seeing renewed learning and confidence.

    fc
    I was always planting my outside foot, but leaning with the bike and not keeping my weight over the tires. It made a huge difference on the loose corners at WD. Still need a lot of practice though, especially on the tight switchbacks.

  18. #93
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    I did some practicing @ Skeggs last night... trying some of these techniques, I felt a bit sketchy / awkward at first but by the end of the ride I stuck a few corners just right. When you get the bike leaned over and your weight in the right place you can carry so much more speed around corners without as much drift.

    I figured my runs would be slower overall as I was concentrating more on technique vs speed. However, when I checked my times on Strava I managed a couple PRs on Blue Blossom / Giant Salamander and overall I was as fast or faster on most sections. I think the hero dirt helped too.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.
    Gotcha...and thanks man, informative stuff all around...........

    Now for tomorrow mornings ride, I will overthink my turning, more than likely pedal strike a rock, forget that I even have a dropper and have to step off the bike

    Love this Sh!@$!!!

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.
    What fundamental skills exactly are we missing out on? Being able to work a quick release, or use an alan wrench? I did not see any of the experts pictured and videoed in this thread demonstrating proper cornering with their seats up in climbing position.
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  21. #96
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    I was tesponding to a poster who said they would never ride a bike without one. So my point was that they are awesome but with good fundamental techniques they are not always necessary to have. Reading comprehension my friend

  22. #97
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    So, real world applications this morning.........I found the bellybutton pointing the most helpfull (hips tend to lead and make the body follow, I love it) while I noticed I tend to lean too far back giving myself less front end control which explains why sometimes I'll end up the the front wheel off of the trail as I come out of sharper turns.....I'll attribute this to the dropper and me standing behind the seat a little too much........sure is a balance that I hope one day will just be second nature!! Till now, it's those fun and fast corners that make me want more!!

  23. #98
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    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front
    Like i've said to my wife many times "You were right, I was wrong" .........

    Thanks Dear ..........

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front
    Hips back? So is the nose of your saddle jabbing you in the tail bone or are you above the saddle?

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