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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    ........just seems if you have 7" of post being utilized from collar to seat then you're probably sitting quite a bit higher than your handlebars..........hmmm.....not a comfortable riding position for me....
    Here is a picture of my bike with seatpost fully extended, almost 9" from top of seat colar to seat rails. I have about 10mm of spacers below my stem. My knees are way over the bar on the upper pedal stroke. The bars feel much lower than the seat when riding with the seat fully extended. First few rides the low stem/bar height felt off, but after getting used to it I really like it. I fell it puts me in a more aggressive position and natrually makes me ride more aggressivly, weight forward and over bars. Front tire traction greatly improvered and I can push hard around corners without fear of a front tire washout. Low bars will force you to use better form, because bad form with low bars is a recipe for going over the bars!. Its an easy experiment, try lowering your stem and if you don't like it just put it back where it was.



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front
    Ahh, so that's what you meant. I couldn't agree with you more on part of your point - like almost everyone else I was originally told (wrongly) to just move the butt back as far as possible and hang off the back edge of the seat such that the elbows are hyper extended, which means the front wheel is not weighted enough, which is totally sketchy. After taking a few skills clinics, the common theme of all of them was to *always* be in neutral position - weight centered over bottom bracket, chest low, elbows up, eyes forward - you do get back a little to maintain a neutral position on DH's, but this doesn't require you to move back so far you have straight elbows, except maybe on super-steeps. Having chest down and looking forward certainly has made my dh's a lot less sketchy and more enjoyable. (Having front of the board weighted is also recommended in snowboarding - except in deep powder). I can't picture however why you would think that being able to move your seat down on demand would prevent someone from doing this skill properly. I think the greater impediment to people descending improperly is not having anyone explain to them the benefits of doing it this way, or not having practiced it. I am glad you finally brought it up!
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    Hips back? So is the nose of your saddle jabbing you in the tail bone or are you above the saddle?
    Imagine keeping your belly button centered over bottom bracket and adjust position for terrain. Back low and level with hips back keeping a low center of gravity.

  4. #104
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    A great video was just posted today about hip movement while turning:

    How-to: Hip Flexion - Video - Pinkbike

    Anybody else totally better at turning on way than the other? I really suck at right turns but can rail all types of left turns no problem.

    Also notice these guys are wearing knee pads when doing this! Pick up a set if you're really going to be focusing on leaning into corners. Troy Lee 5400's are great if you want to put in some mileage without being restricted and still be protected. You will wash out a few times finding that sweet spot, but it wont hurt!

    edit: on second watch, they aren't looking through the turn in a lot of the shots! They're looking down at their front tire, this is a no no.
    YouTube | #1 Rule for California mtb: If you're having fun, it's illegal.

  5. #105
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    So awesome! Don't need to look for hero dirt to practice. Even those crappy, loose fire roads are good for learning techniques.

    fc

  6. #106
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    Dont forget, while you guys are out there practicing, remember that this whole leaning the bike and keeping body upright js only one technique and is only.applicable to certain corners such as sweepers and off cambers. Tight corners and s turns and berms require similar but different inputs.

  7. #107
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    Yes, good point.

    I find that tight series of s turns confuse me more as I get more dialed over the past few years learning new methods like those disucssed in these threads. Specifically, I can't smoothly/quickly switch my stance quickly enough to put the outside pedals down in a series of tight linked s turns. Any thoughts on how to roost linked tight turns? Level pedals and pumping the turns to keep pressure timed to the apexes seems to work pretty good but curious about optimal techniques.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dont forget, while you guys are out there practicing, remember that this whole leaning the bike and keeping body upright js only one technique and is only.applicable to certain corners such as sweepers and off cambers. Tight corners and s turns and berms require similar but different inputs.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    So awesome! Don't need to look for hero dirt to practice. Even those crappy, loose fire roads are good for learning techniques.

    fc
    +1... I actually think wide trails may be better for initial practice as it give you more room to make errors. I almost hit a tree the other day on a tight section of Blue Blossom... I have ridden that section dozens of times, but that day I was paying too much attention to my technique and not the trees. LOL

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemikemike View Post
    Yes, good point.

    I find that tight series of s turns confuse me more as I get more dialed over the past few years learning new methods like those disucssed in these threads. Specifically, I can't smoothly/quickly switch my stance quickly enough to put the outside pedals down in a series of tight linked s turns. Any thoughts on how to roost linked tight turns? Level pedals and pumping the turns to keep pressure timed to the apexes seems to work pretty good but curious about optimal techniques.
    Pump even harder, you have the idea

  10. #110
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    Maybe these guys need a little cornering practice...

    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruAtma View Post
    Maybe these guys need a little cornering practice...

    Roadies?
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  12. #112
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    I've been practicing the techniques in this thread. The pull your inside grip off and dip the outside heel tips really make cornering a completely different experience. Corner speeds and comfort go through the roof. Really good stuff.

  13. #113
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    I just did the dirt crit race in Howarth Park, and the cornering tips helped a lot. I didn't come in last!
    功夫大师喜欢骑着他的自行车在山上。

  14. #114
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    Today pointing my belly button in started feeling better. Old loose scary corners a feeling casual now.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    Roadies?
    Whistler?

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by grumblingcrustacean View Post
    Whistler?
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w3Q2L1Tt1Hk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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  17. #117
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    Oh lord, 3 hours on the Motorcycle and I'm all screwed up now..........
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Oh lord, 3 hours on the Motorcycle and I'm all screwed up now..........
    Hell just switching bicycles is hard enough. At least I got all my handlebars the same width now. Wooden plugs for extra width.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    Hell just switching bicycles is hard enough. At least I got all my handlebars the same width now. Wooden plugs for extra width.
    yeah, it's a big switch, although the bicycle gives me more confidence on the motrocycle......

    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  20. #120
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    Sick! I quit that when I found myself airborn in the middle of a 4 way stop.
    Still drooling!

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    Today pointing my belly button in started feeling better. Old loose scary corners a feeling casual now.
    I was Alum Rock park today for the first time as I tackled a steep, loose, dry descent. Confidence was high!

    A big part of it too is as you understand what's going on with the traction, you're able to ride with more commitment and more traction.

    fc

  22. #122
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    It's hard to shake off street bike cornering techniques to mountain bikes. I haven't ridden sport bikes in years but I still think about cornering on my mtb with Mick Doohan on my head. I think repetition does help out a lot. At Northstar this Friday, I had some pretty fast runs down Livewire moving the bike under me instead of my body leaning into the turns. Elbows out and twisting your torso helps out a lot.

  23. #123
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    Step 1:

    Ride with one of these guys. Observe. Ask questions.

    Drink beer.

    Weed, Hauer, Massey.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Welcome to norcal's cornering clinic-602522_10150962315832475_883249620_n.jpeg  


  24. #124
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    I was riding a familiar trail this weekend. It is a off camber downhill. Just riding down it is not at all technical, but by weight the outside pedal and leaning on the inside grip I could hear my xr4's clawing at the ground. There is something about that counter steer that brings a whole new level of traction. It irritating to be riding all this time and just discover it. I thought I was doing it right. Ha.
    Great thread.

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Step 1:

    Ride with one of these guys. Observe. Ask questions.

    Drink beer.

    Weed, Hauer, Massey.
    Heh, well, if you wanna rail corners like Massey, you can. Shameless plug for a friend: Bikeskills Bay Area Mountain Bike Skills Instruction
    YouTube | #1 Rule for California mtb: If you're having fun, it's illegal.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Heh, well, if you wanna rail corners like Massey, you can. Shameless plug for a friend: Bikeskills Bay Area Mountain Bike Skills Instruction
    That is really the next step. Take a class or get a coach. Feel free to recommend good skills/cornering classes.

    fc

  27. #127
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    It's sad how there are thousands of riders who aren't interested in improving. These cornering tips are so easy to get down and add so much to the riding experience. I just turned 50 and want to get a little better every ride. Not because I race but to have more fun. Carrying more speed and holding momentum make riding a breeze.

  28. #128
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    Felt it!

    Thanks, good stuff! Tried it yesterday. Easy to do and smooth. Felt like my usual method with exaggerated inside grip push, lean in, torso turn, outside elbow lift. Old dogs CAN learn!

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Heh, well, if you wanna rail corners like Massey, you can. Shameless plug for a friend: Bikeskills Bay Area Mountain Bike Skills Instruction
    They just had one this past Sunday @ Tamarancho. I'm not sure who instructed though. I'm due for another class, but really want my injuries to heal up before I go in to get the full benefit of it....otherwise it's like watching videos on the internet.

  30. #130
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    I want to go around some corners fast. I think I'll hit up ye old demo this weekend or next!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by bayareamtnbiker View Post
    Thanks, good stuff! Tried it yesterday. Easy to do and smooth. Felt like my usual method with exaggerated inside grip push, lean in, torso turn, outside elbow lift. Old dogs CAN learn!
    This is the key. Look for it and feel it. Open your mind and you will learn. For a decade, I've been getting faster by taking more risks and getting more familiar with the trail. But that's not really learning better technique. If you seek and find the cornering traction, you will be safer and faster.

    fc
    Last edited by fc; 07-23-2012 at 09:43 PM.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Step 1:

    Ride with one of these guys. Observe. Ask questions.

    Drink beer.

    Weed, Hauer, Massey.
    ...Or watch them ride by at least. As nice and friendly as those thre guys are, they would probably, actually wait for you, so you could see them ride, that is if there wasn't a fistfull of dollars on the line. And as sketchy as that race was, the term "pro" is fitting for each of them as fast as their times were.
    I learn something every time watching either of those guys ride or race.

    props.

  33. #133
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    Went out this evening and put some of this to practice,...what a difference. Had an absolute blast, this is one of many reasons why I love Mountain Biking.

  34. #134
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    Tried out some more aggressive cornering techniques today at CCCX #8. I think I am just a tad faster through the loose off-camber turns now but not too much faster.
    QUOTE from MTBR.COM: You have given Brewtality too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.

  35. #135
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    What is the difference between pushing on the inside grip vs pulling on the outside grip?
    Also, is not either of these just putting an unnecessary torque on the handlebar?
    If riding in a straight line (for example only) you can see that pushing on one grip and pulling on the other doesn't really accomplish anything.

  36. #136
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    If you stand on your outside pedal and lean the bike over between your legs you have to torque the bars to keep the bike layed over. Try it in a straight line on the street. It's much harder for me to lift the outside bar than try to pull the inside bar grip off. When I get the bike all set up in the corner I tense my core muscles and lift the outside bar. I got some great practice on the Truckee Super D last week. There must be fifty sweet berms on that DH! They're all made by motos so the flow is insane.

  37. #137
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    Jay Hoots and Shandro said they will show me the way. I will report back

    fc

  38. #138
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    I swear cornering is like golf for me..........I get a few great shots then bogey for a while.......hehe, too much thinking still..........it's working though, I just gotta get it to become second nature
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    I swear cornering is like golf for me..........I get a few great shots then bogey for a while.......hehe, too much thinking still..........it's working though, I just gotta get it to become second nature
    This is actually great insight. Golfers spend a lot of time and money working on their stroke. They get coaches, have all kinds of machines and tools to help analyze what they're doing.

    Us mountain bikers on the other hand do very little to improve our technique. We just ride. Well I think it's time to change that and make an effort to improve again and learn. Break down what we're doing and build it back up and leave the bad habits behind.

    Who's with me?

    fc

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is actually great insight. Golfers spend a lot of time and money working on their stroke. They get coaches, have all kinds of machines and tools to help analyze what they're doing.

    Us mountain bikers on the other hand do very little to improve our technique. We just ride. Well I think it's time to change that and make an effort to improve again and learn. Break down what we're doing and build it back up and leave the bad habits behind.

    Who's with me?

    fc
    This thread transformed my riding lately. I'd love to find a coach to make an investment in.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is actually great insight. Golfers spend a lot of time and money working on their stroke. They get coaches, have all kinds of machines and tools to help analyze what they're doing.

    Us mountain bikers on the other hand do very little to improve our technique. We just ride. Well I think it's time to change that and make an effort to improve again and learn. Break down what we're doing and build it back up and leave the bad habits behind.

    Who's with me?

    fc
    I'm in! Every ride every corner. I pulled off most of the right techniques in a clutch situation the other day.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    This is actually great insight. Golfers spend a lot of time and money working on their stroke. They get coaches, have all kinds of machines and tools to help analyze what they're doing.

    Us mountain bikers on the other hand do very little to improve our technique. We just ride. Well I think it's time to change that and make an effort to improve again and learn. Break down what we're doing and build it back up and leave the bad habits behind.

    Who's with me?

    fc
    I have done a bunch of clinics already, and it's good to get feedback from a pro, but you have to practice and apply what you learn or you lose it. Gene Hamilton recommends to focus on at least one skill on each ride, and it's really, really good advice. My first sport was snowboarding back in the 90's, and on ski hills there are always all kinds of lessons available. I'm surprised it's not more popular for mountain biking. I think it would be hella fun to organize a trip up to Whistler and do a co-ed Dirt Series up there!

    In lieu of that, having skills threads up on mtbr is also a great refresher and reminder to continually improve.
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. Were just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
    ~Fairfaxian

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    braaaaap noises help
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmHolland View Post
    This reminds me of a South Park episode.
    garth marenghi's darkplace - bike chase scene - YouTube

    The entire show is brilliant. Fantastic humor. All six episodes can be found on this channel:
    xbobandrose's channel - YouTube
    To ride this trail is completely free.
    Just show me a triangle..... make it three!

  44. #144
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    Hmmm, there needs to be a NorCal Cornering Clinic Meetup, ride, and after ride beer tasting.......
    Master of Nothing, but dammit if I don't try..............

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Jay Hoots and Shandro said they will show me the way. I will report back

    fc
    Been waiting for some Shore ride reports, where are they? Whatya working or something?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Hmmm, there needs to be a NorCal Cornering Clinic Meetup, ride, and after ride beer tasting.......
    My vote is the Truckee super D. Perfect for laying down corners.

  47. #147
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    We need some coaching/camp recommendations. Coaching reviews!!

    For a group ride, we will need some volunteer coaches who know what they're talking about.

    For IPA coaching, I'm your man.

    fc

  48. #148
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    Matt Cain is a mtb'er?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Welcome to norcal's cornering clinic-matt.cain.mtb.jpg  


  49. #149
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    On off camber turns wouldn't the tire contact area be greater if you leaned your body into the turn more than your bike and thus have greater traction?

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael1 View Post
    On off camber turns wouldn't the tire contact area be greater if you leaned your body into the turn more than your bike and thus have greater traction?
    Edit... Misread your post. Have had coffee now. Disregard post. :-)
    Last edited by ask; 08-16-2012 at 09:35 AM.

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