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  1. #51
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    Keep posting the good advice and videos. We may have a good content article here. Other topics we've covered recently on other threads are:

    1)Tires - match them for the trails and current conditions. A little more knobs on the front. Good Norcal Summer tires are:
    Specialized Purgatory, Butcher, Eskar
    Bontrager XR4
    Schwalbe Hans Dampf, Nobby Nic
    Maxxis Ardent, Minion
    Panaracer CG AM
    WTB Bronson
    Conti Rubber Queen
    Hutchinson Cougar

    2) Tire pressure is critical. Run the lowest pressure you can for your weight and riding style. Wide rims, tubeless, stiff sidewalls, 29ers will allow you to run low pressure. As long as you don't pinch flat or roll the tire off the rim, low pressure gives you more traction and better rolling in rough stuff. For most people, 20-30 psi is sufficient.

    3) Wide handlebars, short stem - Run as wide a bar and as short a stem as you're comfortable with when you are descending fast and working on your cornering. 70 mm stem and 28 inch bars is a good starting point for an all mountain bike. This gives you better balance and control over your bike.

    4) Dropping post - This will put your body in the correct position during cornering, descending and carving.

    5) Flat pedals - flat pedals allow you to use proper physics and work with the bike instead of against it. And while learning, you can step off easily when you bail.

    6) Pump track - Weighting and unweighting gives speed and traction

    7) Proper braking - Scrub the speed off and enter the corner at the proper speed. Maintain speed on the corner and accelerate out.

    fc

  2. #52
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    Great thread! I definitely need to work on this.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Keep posting the good advice and videos. We may have a good content article here. Other topics we've covered recently on other threads are:

    1)Tires - match them for the trails and current conditions. A little more knobs on the front. Good Norcal Summer tires are:
    Specialized Purgatory, Butcher, Eskar
    Bontrager XR4
    Schwalbe Hans Dampf, Nobby Nic
    Maxxis Ardent, Minion
    Panaracer CG AM
    WTB Bronson
    Conti Rubber Queen
    Hutchinson Cougar

    2) Tire pressure is critical. Run the lowest pressure you can for your weight and riding style. Wide rims, tubeless, stiff sidewalls, 29ers will allow you to run low pressure. As long as you don't pinch flat or roll the tire off the rim, low pressure gives you more traction and better rolling in rough stuff. For most people, 20-30 psi is sufficient.

    3) Wide handlebars, short stem - Run as wide a bar and as short a stem as you're comfortable with when you are descending fast and working on your cornering. 70 mm stem and 28 inch bars is a good starting point for an all mountain bike. This gives you better balance and control over your bike.

    4) Dropping post - This will put your body in the correct position during cornering, descending and carving.

    5) Flat pedals - flat pedals allow you to use proper physics and work with the bike instead of against it. And while learning, you can step off easily when you bail.

    6) Pump track - Weighting and unweighting gives speed and traction

    7) Proper braking - Scrub the speed off and enter the corner at the proper speed. Maintain speed on the corner and accelerate out.

    fc
    Great comprehensive post,

    On #2 tho, I'd say that too low is not good for cornering. While you want the tire to deform and create a bigger contact patch. You do not want the tire to be squirmy or wallowy. That will make the tire flex and then break traction quickly. You want you're tires compliant and to maintain their form. The stiffer the casing the less psi you can run. So a downhill dual casing tire might be ran at 25 psi, while the trail version lighter weight one would be run at 32psi, same tread, same volume. Rear tires also need a little more pressure because of the obvious weight bias from your body. I dont' even use tire pressure guages anymore as they are widely inaccurate and inconsistent. I just squeeze the sidewall of the tire and get a feel for how that particular tire feels at different levels of air. Also on an extra sidenote, if you run an All Mountain large size tire on a xc skinny wheel with low air pressure you have a recipe for a terrbile handling bike. It will be squirmy with massive oversteer and blowing off the bead is quite possible.

    #5, not only will flats give you a pedal you can jump off of quickly and also be able to put a foot out motocross style, but it forces you to ride correctly with your heels down. Most people on Clipless (including myself) get into the habit of toes down, which is not correct for bike handling skills. Running flats, you are forced to use the correct orientation and it allows you to pump the bike more easily, keep it planted in the corners, and manipulate the frontend by being able to lean forward without feeling like the front tire is going to wash.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Keep posting the good advice and videos. We may have a good content article here. Other topics we've covered recently on other threads are:

    1)Tires - match them for the trails and current conditions. A little more knobs on the front. Good Norcal Summer tires are:
    Specialized Purgatory, Butcher, Eskar
    Bontrager XR4
    Schwalbe Hans Dampf, Nobby Nic
    Maxxis Ardent, Minion
    Panaracer CG AM
    WTB Bronson
    Conti Rubber Queen
    Hutchinson Cougar

    2) Tire pressure is critical. Run the lowest pressure you can for your weight and riding style. Wide rims, tubeless, stiff sidewalls, 29ers will allow you to run low pressure. As long as you don't pinch flat or roll the tire off the rim, low pressure gives you more traction and better rolling in rough stuff. For most people, 20-30 psi is sufficient.

    3) Wide handlebars, short stem - Run as wide a bar and as short a stem as you're comfortable with when you are descending fast and working on your cornering. 70 mm stem and 28 inch bars is a good starting point for an all mountain bike. This gives you better balance and control over your bike.

    4) Dropping post - This will put your body in the correct position during cornering, descending and carving.

    5) Flat pedals - flat pedals allow you to use proper physics and work with the bike instead of against it. And while learning, you can step off easily when you bail.

    6) Pump track - Weighting and unweighting gives speed and traction

    7) Proper braking - Scrub the speed off and enter the corner at the proper speed. Maintain speed on the corner and accelerate out.

    fc

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeng View Post
    braaaaap noises help
    This reminds me of a South Park episode.

  6. #56
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    awesome thread!

    My $.02:
    I've been working on cornering for the past year -- almost exclusively -- and while it might sound stupid this focus has really put the fun back in riding for me. To hell with Strava: railing corners is the main reason I ride these days, no joke! So much improvement still to be made, but such fun trying...

    A couple of things that really helped me (in addition to those that have been mentioned) are Lee McCormack & Brian Lopes' book, but even more importantly James Wilson's strength programs. I've had serious back problems since I was a teenager, and Wilson helped me realize that my hip mobility was sadly lacking. This makes it impossible to steer with the hips (as mentioned in the "Hey Coach" video, and readily visible in most of the others). So I recommend some of Wilson's hip mobility exercises, and the Turkish GetUp. Check out his take on cornering (very similar to Hamilton's, but with narration):

    <iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/14282404" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="281" width="500"></iframe>
    Last edited by budgie; 07-16-2012 at 03:12 PM.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlennW View Post
    I find mountain bike and dirt bike (motorcycle) have similar techniques, but street bike (motorcycle) is the opposite. i.e. pushing the inside bar down vs hanging off the inside of the bike.
    This. It took a little bit when I transitioned from sport bike to dirt/supermoto. Dirt/Supermoto technique applies to MTB, definitely, but absolutely not sport bike.

    One thing I find, too, from riding upright single cylinder thumpers is I can never use a dropper seat post. One of the things I like is have the seat there for my knees to feel, like having your knees against the gas tank for dirt/supermoto when cornering. For me, the seat is kind of a "marker", letting me know where my body is at in relation to the bike in a turn.

    I know it sounds weird, but that's just my personal thing from years of riding thumpers.

    Squaring up turns and understanding camber and hitting apexes has helped me a lot in MTB. Also, how to make the most out of the contact patch of a tire. Anybody who has ridden motorcycles, especially dirt/Supermoto riders, can understand this.
    Last edited by Dion; 07-16-2012 at 03:18 PM.

  8. #58
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    I deleted my comment and did more research before I go spouting off on the interwebs............I googled "dirt bike vs. street bike cornering" ......... at slower speeds it is close, and that makes sense..........I guess my previos comments would apply to the idea of shifting hips, looking through the corner, and watching when you brake.......while the two aren't the opposite, they certainly are very different. The video just above where he says to point your belly button toward where you want to turn is GREAT advice, it's a good way to think about hip movement without having to think about your hips.........This is good stuff!!


    grain of salt with my opinions of course...........I am a hack of all trades for sure
    Last edited by digthemlows; 07-16-2012 at 03:52 PM.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    That was intentional bro. It's from my upcoming dvd.... seconds before disaster.
    part 2: mtbr bend oregon slalom course - YouTube

    fc
    HO! Laughing with tears! Riding today I thought about the bars. Initiating the turn by pressing down on the inside grip then locking it in by lifting the outside. Fc you're right about pressing down or for me it's like trying to pull the grip off.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyS600 View Post
    He's not serious.
    A noob might read this and think it is. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    5) Flat pedals - flat pedals allow you to use proper physics and work with the bike instead of against it. And while learning, you can step off easily when you bail.
    fc
    Wow,#5 is blasphemy in some of the other forums on here. Way to go NorCal! Or at least, I make an easier target for really juvenile responses whenever I try to make this point.

    Anyway, great summary! I would add a point about leading with the eyes and looking out of the corner, as this seems to be the often overlooked, often forgotten (in my own case), critical component. Maybe this one thing works its magic more in slow-speed tight switchbacks, but I think it applies no matter what you're doing on the trail.
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. Were just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
    ~Fairfaxian

  12. #62
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    On the point of #4...
    I'm still not all that sold on a lower seat for cornering. Steeps and drops, yeah. After years I'll concede the point on that one, but not sure on the cornering aspect.

    Of course I'm thinking about getting one of those dropper post things in the near future, so I'm sure my opinion on this matter will change shortly after I get one.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto'n'PushBiker View Post
    Fabien Barel has some great skills videos. Here's the one on cornering

    <object width='500' height='281'><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always' /><param name='movie' value='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/254139/l/' /><embed src='http://www.pinkbike.com/v/254139/l/' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='500' height='281' allowFullScreen='true' allowScriptAccess='always'></embed></object><p><a href='http://www.pinkbike.com/video/254139/'>Cornering</a> on <a href='http://www.pinkbike.com'>Pinkbike</a></p>

    and the rest is here:
    Fabien-Barel Video Channel
    I really like this video. It is exactly what I would teach the noobs when I hosted SuperMoto track days at Stockton Motoplex.

    Sometimes I forget to employ my old motorcycle techniques. Today I was inspired by this thread and went out and cornered the way I know how... and it's much faster through!

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron m. View Post
    A noob might read this and think it is. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
    You almost make my point.

    learning to ride a bike via internet forums is beyond stupid.

    You have no idea if the people writing are skilled, BS'ing, etc.

    If you hurt yourself because you read it on the internet: it's on you.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Went for a tiny ride today and tried to pay attention on all the corners. Man it is hard. There's so much going on specially with proper braking and bike weighting.

    But it made a boring trail interesting. And I did hear that ripping sound once when I attained maximus traction.

    fc
    Very true. I got a lot of bad habits to break.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Use LOTS of front brake, when cornering. Especially when its loose and steep. Hit the brakes right when you're in the apex of the turn, leaning hard into the corner.

    You should grab a handfull, hard - and then to what Francois said, keep your weight on the inside arm.

    When you hit the brakes, your weight shifts, creating MORE traction, which of course helps you corner better!

    Isnt learning MTB skills on the interwebs great?!?!
    Damn you IHB, now I have no front teef!

  17. #67
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    Couple of questions:

    - When steering, do you 1) pull on the outside handlebar or 2) push on the inside? I have been taught 2 for street motorbike and 1 for MTB riding. I haven't had enough time to compare both styles on the MTB.

    - for braking, do you let completely go off the brakes before the corner and let the forks come up or drag the brakes to keep equal front wheel pressure on the ground?
    Correct number of bikes: n+1 bikes
    Correct body weight: m-10 pounds

  18. #68
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    If one could teach it to everyone... we all could do it like a pro

    Great thread. Very interesting to see that everyone has a different take on cornering.

    Here's mine:

    I think back to my brief street bike days, and remember the instructors said to push down on the inside bar to initiate the lean and weight the outside peg.

    My MTB instructor at N* emphasized leaning the bike with hip positioning or motor bike style weighting of inside bar and then weighting the outside bar end to control the turn, and also to weight the outside pedal.

    These things make sense to me.

    But I believe the main thing is to practice...practice...practice...

    Find more time to ride!

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    You almost make my point.

    learning to ride a bike via internet forums is beyond stupid.

    You have no idea if the people writing are skilled, BS'ing, etc.

    If you hurt yourself because you read it on the internet: it's on you.
    I trust that everybody here, especially Francis, has good intentions. I don't think anybody here would want to put anybody in harm's way. All posts here have been great, except for your sarcastic remark, which, somebody who doesn't get it could take it seriously. So, in essence, you are the only one putting somebody in danger. I mean, somebody even had to ask if you were serious.

    As far as learning on the internet - Keith Code was putting out sport bike instructional videos and books well before the internet, and thousands of guys took that information to the racetrack. I've hit the pavement at 110MPH and slid my ass into the kitty litter at the track. Did I blame Keith Code? Nope.

    Eddie Bravo, Jujitsu Master, has instructional videos on his website people can have unlimited downloads for $4.99/month, so that those without access to a Jujitsu school can learn. He's not the only one doing that.

    There are a ton of threads on this forum on how to wrench on your bike, or do modifications - isn't that a liability?

    And lastly, I work in the financial industry and I am appalled at what I see/hear on TV and the radio by "financial pros".

    Clinics are expensive and not everybody has access to them. I've attended a handful of clinics and learned a lot on the internet. Both have merit, and anybody with a BS meter can see who has good intentions or not.

    I guess you need to add a disclaimer, Francis.

  20. #70
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    You almost make my point.

    learning to ride a bike via internet forums is beyond stupid.

    ...
    Blasphemy. This is mtbr, not the internets. It's a circle of trust where trolls are outed. You can get valid bike and beer recommendations from strangers.

    fc

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moto'n'PushBiker View Post
    Couple of questions:

    - When steering, do you 1) pull on the outside handlebar or 2) push on the inside? I have been taught 2 for street motorbike and 1 for MTB riding. I haven't had enough time to compare both styles on the MTB.

    - for braking, do you let completely go off the brakes before the corner and let the forks come up or drag the brakes to keep equal front wheel pressure on the ground?
    For handlebar control, I would say it's a combination of both, but with the majority of effort put into the inside hand, as this will force you to keep your weight over the bike, not beside the bike if you lean on the outside hand. Use the outside one to pull up on the bar, as others have said.

    For braking, it depends on the situation. Trail composition, your ability, your tires, etc. all have an effect on how you and your bike will behave. 95% of the time, you want to get off the front brake early on when initiating a turn on loose terrain, such as gravel, sand, snow...as these surfaces will reduce your tire's ability to maintain ground contact. Using the front brake (or the back one, but not to the same extent) takes your weight and pushes it straight out of the turn, instead of allowing your weight to travel around the turn with your bike. This will cause your tires to loose traction, and potentially wash out (drifting counters this, but takes a lot of practice).

    Hard-pack and pavement allow for more aggressive braking technique, but the same physics still apply.

  22. #72
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    If you're cornering with a high seat you have to have your body in front of the seat. That's not bad until an obstacle comes up in a turn and you have to get behind the seat quickly.
    Years ago a fast rider told me to lower my seat before a long DH. So I lowered it 4 inches and he said "NO LOWER IT ALL THE WAY" That the day I began improving.
    Get a dropper with 5 or more inches if possible.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    If you're cornering with a high seat you have to have your body in front of the seat. That's not bad until an obstacle comes up in a turn and you have to get behind the seat quickly.
    Years ago a fast rider told me to lower my seat before a long DH. So I lowered it 4 inches and he said "NO LOWER IT ALL THE WAY" That the day I began improving.
    Get a dropper with 5 or more inches if possible.

    Not very possible with an hardtail XC bike...top tube is too high to lower the seat much. Makes you apply other techniques to compensate, like the weighting and handlebar control.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    If you're cornering with a high seat you have to have your body in front of the seat. That's not bad until an obstacle comes up in a turn and you have to get behind the seat quickly.
    Years ago a fast rider told me to lower my seat before a long DH. So I lowered it 4 inches and he said "NO LOWER IT ALL THE WAY" That the day I began improving.
    Get a dropper with 5 or more inches if possible.
    5" is a large amount to "need" ....even on full suspension if your bike is sized right I cant imagine having 7" of seat post (the dropper posts have about 2 - 3 inches that don't go down into the seat tube. I'm 6'7" with a 23" frame and my 4" dropper is barely raised.....just wondering if a lot of folks really have a need for even 5" of seat post if it isn't a dropper??

    On another note, my Joplin 4 went to CB for service and the tight switchbacks at Tamarancho were nearly imposible on the way down because of having to get behind the seat which was up high and a pain to manuever around............I find droppers to be very useful for lots of situations that arent always Downhill or even All Mountain................Good stuff!!

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I trust that everybody here, especially Francis, has good intentions. I don't think anybody here would want to put anybody in harm's way. All posts here have been great, except for your sarcastic remark, which, somebody who doesn't get it could take it seriously. So, in essence, you are the only one putting somebody in danger. I mean, somebody even had to ask if you were serious.

    As far as learning on the internet - Keith Code was putting out sport bike instructional videos and books well before the internet, and thousands of guys took that information to the racetrack. I've hit the pavement at 110MPH and slid my ass into the kitty litter at the track. Did I blame Keith Code? Nope.

    Eddie Bravo, Jujitsu Master, has instructional videos on his website people can have unlimited downloads for $4.99/month, so that those without access to a Jujitsu school can learn. He's not the only one doing that.

    There are a ton of threads on this forum on how to wrench on your bike, or do modifications - isn't that a liability?

    And lastly, I work in the financial industry and I am appalled at what I see/hear on TV and the radio by "financial pros".

    Clinics are expensive and not everybody has access to them. I've attended a handful of clinics and learned a lot on the internet. Both have merit, and anybody with a BS meter can see who has good intentions or not.

    I guess you need to add a disclaimer, Francis.
    IHB was trolling? I'm shocked.

    Incidentally, the heavy fog/mist we got in Santa Cruz yesterday knocked a lot of dust down. Perfect conditions and trails for playing with cornering techniques.

  26. #76
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    I just watch a few of these videos and my form/technique blows. I've been working on my cornering and descending skills lately... Years of bad cornering technique have been hard to break. I am looking forward to working on some or these tips @ Skeggs tonight.

    WRT the dropper seat post. I put a dropper on my main suspension bike awhile back and it has completely changed my riding. I doubt I will build another MTB that doesn't have a dropper on it. Even on my 29er SS, I find that dropping the seat down a bit makes it much easier to throw around corners and handles less like a truck on tight switchbacks.

    Thanks all for the tips and videos.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    On the point of #4...
    I'm still not all that sold on a lower seat for cornering. Steeps and drops, yeah. After years I'll concede the point on that one, but not sure on the cornering aspect.

    Of course I'm thinking about getting one of those dropper post things in the near future, so I'm sure my opinion on this matter will change shortly after I get one.
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.
    Plus one! If I could only make my seat and seat post disappear with a switch.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    It's really not even close. I could never ride a bike without a dropper seat post again. It's night and day for cornering, steeps, jumps...everything. I would ride a rigid/rim brake bike with dropper vs. a full suspension/disk brake bike without one.
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    5" is a large amount to "need" ....even on full suspension if your bike is sized right I cant imagine having 7" of seat post (the dropper posts have about 2 - 3 inches that don't go down into the seat tube. I'm 6'7" with a 23" frame and my 4" dropper is barely raised.....just wondering if a lot of folks really have a need for even 5" of seat post if it isn't a dropper??
    I find that I begin to need a lower seat post on steeper hills. The steeper the hill, the more you have to shift your body weight back. On less steep hills, you don't have to move as far back. It's about being in *neutral* position relative to the front & back wheels. It's true that on most hills, my 4" dropper is more than adequate. But on steeper hills, (like Braille or Game trail), my seat even fully dropped is still in the way. I find I have to adjust the seat height ahead of time with my quick release. There is no harm in a seat post that is too low on a downhill, but believe me - there is harm if it is too high. IMO, just go for the lowest drop you can get, (probably 5" is enough for most of us - 7" for serious downhill or freeride) with an option to stop it 1 or 2 inches from the top for less steep, more rolling terrain and your covered.

    Yody -
    "A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down."

    Seat post droppers should not be used as a crutch for bad form. They are supposed to assist good form, i.e. neutral position. You don't drop your post so you can sit lower, you drop your seat post so it is out of the way when you are standing in your pedals in proper neutral position. On the flip side - I do not think it is even possible to ride down a hill in correct form while the seat is up in climbing position. If the hill is not extremely steep, plenty of people will clear it just fine, but that's not the same thing as descending smoothly in good form, and certainly would not work to your advantage in a downhill race.
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  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    5" is a large amount to "need" ....even on full suspension if your bike is sized right I cant imagine having 7" of seat post (the dropper posts have about 2 - 3 inches that don't go down into the seat tube. I'm 6'7" with a 23" frame and my 4" dropper is barely raised.....just wondering if a lot of folks really have a need for even 5" of seat post if it isn't a dropper??
    I'm just under 5'6" and run 5" reverbs on 2 bikes. I have no problem using all the travel. I could even go 150mm droppers and still have room to use all the post travel.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    /snip
    Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. /snip

    Some food for thought
    That.

    Only time in recent memory that I had lowered my seat was last trip down braille. Of course that process involves finding a 5mm allen wrench, loosening the seat collar and dropping it six inches. Heck, when I got to Downieville I don't recall lowering it much there.

    Of course I'm still a tallentless hack on a bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought
    I would agree with this. There are plenty of people much faster than me that ride with a high post. I have the much maligned Command Post which I like because it has three positions. I tend to ride fully extended for all climbing and smooth roller coaster-ish XC. I ride at middle drop for rougher XC and some technical climbing and I ride fully dropped when I know the trail is pointed downhill for an extended period of time.

    BD (before dropper) I would use the old school method of hanging off the back seat on anything remotely steep. AD, I'm able to get away from that and sorta squat down into the middle of the suspension which gives you much more control in the steep and techy stuff. I'm not a big hucker or anything but my confidence on booters and drops is infinitely higher with the dropper post. As far as cornering, I feel it's just much easier to throw your weight around with the dropper post. It doesn't make me a bada$$ but it's definitely improved my riding overall.

  34. #84
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    Yah for sure, im all about the seat dropper. Was just throwing that out there for anyone reading, to think about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I agree with you but at the same time, its not good to be totally dependent on a dropper post. There are plenty of people who can rip with a high-post. For all out ripper descents there is nothing better than having the seat as far out of the way as possible. But its bad form to HAVE to have a seat dropper in all circumstances. On less steep terrain its a good idea to practice barely lowering the post. Hips back/chest down works with/without seat down so if you can still flow with the seat up you will be that much better with it down. A lot of riders I see, don't have correct form and have a bad habit of relying on the seat dropper, because the only way their bad form works is with the seat down.

    Some food for thought
    There are plenty of people that can rip down a hill on a hard tail with a 100mm fork too, doesn't mean it's bad form to use full suspension. People starting today wont need to learn how to ride with a rigid seat post if they don't want to, wont make them less of a mtn biker, just means they didn't learn the old school ways. It's not bad form to lower the seat is it?

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    I'm just under 5'6" and run 5" reverbs on 2 bikes. I have no problem using all the travel. I could even go 150mm droppers and still have room to use all the post travel.
    I guess I didn't think frame sizes would allow that much seat post while still being able to reach the pedals .... Guess you could always get a frame size smaller if you wanted to run more of a drop post........just seems if you have 7" of post being utilized from collar to seat then you're probably sitting quite a bit higher than your handlebars..........hmmm.....not a comfortable riding position for me....

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    There are plenty of people that can rip down a hill on a hard tail with a 100mm fork too, doesn't mean it's bad form to use full suspension. People starting today wont need to learn how to ride with a rigid seat post if they don't want to, wont make them less of a mtn biker, just means they didn't learn the old school ways. It's not bad form to lower the seat is it?
    You are missing my.point

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    Hmmm, read it again and still don't get it. You are saying that relying on a dropper is bad form. I'm comparing that to relying on full suspension. If lowering the seat helps with cornering and the dropper is available wouldn't the technique that you practice be using the tools that your bike has? Cornering with a bike that doesn't have a dropper is different for sure and therefore you would use different techniques correct?

    I'm not trying to troll or even argue, I just dont understand how it's "bad form" to rely on a dropper post?

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by digthemlows View Post
    Hmmm, read it again and still don't get it. You are saying that relying on a dropper is bad form. I'm comparing that to relying on full suspension. If lowering the seat helps with cornering and the dropper is available wouldn't the technique that you practice be using the tools that your bike has? Cornering with a bike that doesn't have a dropper is different for sure and therefore you would use different techniques correct?

    I'm not trying to troll or even argue, I just dont understand how it's "bad form" to rely on a dropper post?
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.

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    Man, after reading this thread, I did my normal tour de waterdog last night. I really focused on rotating my hips and trying to practice the tips mentioned here and it made a huge difference. I can't wait until this stuff becomes second nature and I don't even think about it. I can't believe how incorrectly I've been riding my bike for the last 8 years or so. Thanks for all of the tips/pointers/advice everyone!

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by maleonardphi View Post
    Man, after reading this thread, I did my normal tour de waterdog last night. I really focused on rotating my hips and trying to practice the tips mentioned here and it made a huge difference. I can't wait until this stuff becomes second nature and I don't even think about it. I can't believe how incorrectly I've been riding my bike for the last 8 years or so. Thanks for all of the tips/pointers/advice everyone!
    Planting the outside foot is finding me some great traction.

    I think we've all been getting faster with courage and trail familiarity over the years but technique can be neglected. This year, I started paying attention to my cornering and I'm seeing renewed learning and confidence.

    fc

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by francois View Post
    Planting the outside foot is finding me some great traction.

    I think we've all been getting faster with courage and trail familiarity over the years but technique can be neglected. This year, I started paying attention to my cornering and I'm seeing renewed learning and confidence.

    fc
    I was always planting my outside foot, but leaning with the bike and not keeping my weight over the tires. It made a huge difference on the loose corners at WD. Still need a lot of practice though, especially on the tight switchbacks.

  43. #93
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    I did some practicing @ Skeggs last night... trying some of these techniques, I felt a bit sketchy / awkward at first but by the end of the ride I stuck a few corners just right. When you get the bike leaned over and your weight in the right place you can carry so much more speed around corners without as much drift.

    I figured my runs would be slower overall as I was concentrating more on technique vs speed. However, when I checked my times on Strava I managed a couple PRs on Blue Blossom / Giant Salamander and overall I was as fast or faster on most sections. I think the hero dirt helped too.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.
    Gotcha...and thanks man, informative stuff all around...........

    Now for tomorrow mornings ride, I will overthink my turning, more than likely pedal strike a rock, forget that I even have a dropper and have to step off the bike

    Love this Sh!@$!!!

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Dropper post is the shiznit, we all know that. But if you cant ride a mountain bike without one, youre likely missing some fundamental skillls.
    What fundamental skills exactly are we missing out on? Being able to work a quick release, or use an alan wrench? I did not see any of the experts pictured and videoed in this thread demonstrating proper cornering with their seats up in climbing position.
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  46. #96
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    I was tesponding to a poster who said they would never ride a bike without one. So my point was that they are awesome but with good fundamental techniques they are not always necessary to have. Reading comprehension my friend

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    So, real world applications this morning.........I found the bellybutton pointing the most helpfull (hips tend to lead and make the body follow, I love it) while I noticed I tend to lean too far back giving myself less front end control which explains why sometimes I'll end up the the front wheel off of the trail as I come out of sharper turns.....I'll attribute this to the dropper and me standing behind the seat a little too much........sure is a balance that I hope one day will just be second nature!! Till now, it's those fun and fast corners that make me want more!!

  48. #98
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    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front
    Like i've said to my wife many times "You were right, I was wrong" .........

    Thanks Dear ..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Awesome observations. Thats was exactly what I was talking about with the seat dropper deal. Being so accustomed to lowering seat and dropping back instead of pushing hips back and chest down/elbows out weighting the front
    Hips back? So is the nose of your saddle jabbing you in the tail bone or are you above the saddle?

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