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  1. #1301
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtssogood View Post
    No doubt some places do, but the distribution tends to coincide with population. I'm also pretty sure most of those rednecks would just as soon kiss that 15% goodbye if it meant CA becoming its own country so they wouldn't have to fear for their guns and equal bathroom access and porn and whatever else gets them worked up.
    So anyways, Texarkana? Moline? Omaha? Thoughts?
    A good read.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business...takers/361668/

    Given the choice, no way Iíd live south of the Mason-Dixon ever again. Sure, the average Bay Area resident can buy a palace in many parts of the country when they cash out. But Iíve never experienced such open hostility towards cyclists as I did when living in VA and GA.

    Iíve had beer bottles thrown at me twice on the same ride. Death threats, guns pulled. A guy who used a racial epithet for Mexicans towards me because I had a sweet tan.






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  2. #1302
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    ^^ I hear you. On the same ride in North Carolina (born in Charlotte) I had a driver scream "Outta the road, spaceman!" (?), then I had a water balloon thrown at me from a very distinctive work truck. Reported the latter to the local PD, who were absolutely no help. Attempted one road ride in KY--scary.

    Economically, the South is the equivalent of your grown kids still living with you, while you pay most of their bills. At some point you just have to push them out of the nest.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 07-18-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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  3. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    A good read.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business...takers/361668/

    Given the choice, no way Iíd live south of the Mason-Dixon ever again. Sure, the average Bay Area resident can buy a palace in many parts of the country when they cash out. But Iíve never experienced such open hostility towards cyclists as I did when living in VA and GA.

    Iíve had beer bottles thrown at me twice on the same ride. Death threats, guns pulled. A guy who used a racial epithet for Mexicans towards me because I had a sweet tan.






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    Itís not all roses and cherries in the Bay Area either. Iíve had slushees thrown at my face (while in a bike lane), quite a few attempts at passing as closely as possible, been hit by a car, and had people yell at me.

    Riding in Boulder for the last month they tend to give cyclists more room and pass in a safer manner. Then again the overall driving skill seems to be way higher here than California. And people arenít as agro all the time in general which shows in their driving.


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  4. #1304
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    "We'll scare the hell out of 'em"

    When I think about visiting the South for recreation 2 movies come to mind; Deliverance and this:

    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  5. #1305
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    A really nice house can be bought here for between 200-400k.

    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-img_8847.jpg

  6. #1306
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    A few friends from Fox Racing Shox have been moving to Asheville, North Carolina. They're based in Scotts Valley but have established an office in Asheville after buying a Cane Creek lab I think.

    Anyway, they're allowing some key guys to relocate and folks are taking advantage. The scene there is incredible I hear. And most important, affordable.Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-37737596_10217508329639294_4249783711765102592_o.jpg
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  7. #1307
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    A few friends from Fox Racing Shox have been moving to Asheville, North Carolina. They're based in Scotts Valley but have established an office in Asheville after buying a Cane Creek lab I think.

    Anyway, they're allowing some key guys to relocate and folks are taking advantage. The scene there is incredible I hear. And most important, affordable.Click image for larger version. 

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    Can they please just give us an RC2 damper on all the products before they leave?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The scene there is incredible I hear. And most important, affordable.Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah, Asheville is great. It's blowing up quickly, not sure how much longer it will be affordable except in comparison to ridiculous prices here. Main pros of Asheville:

    - Beer is incredible. Good mix of smaller breweries and a few ridiculous large ones like Sierra Nevada and Oskar Blues
    - Riding is incredible. Trails everywhere, tons of chunky rooty steep terrain, creek crossings, etc
    - Good variety of other activities, especially paddle sports
    - Food, beer, most things are cheap

    There are some cons depending on how you see things:

    - It's pretty cold in the winter and aggressively hot in the Summer by our standards. In winter the cold isn't going to keep you from riding much, but the heat definitely can cause problems in the Summer. Summer is shuttle season for many. The heat is oppressive particularly on the trails due to humidity
    - You're in North Carolina. I love NC but it's NC, and it's not a very progressive state at the moment. Better, Asheville is very liberal, which has made the conservative state government reluctant to spend state money there on roads etc.
    - Asheville is definitely a tourist destination, always has been. You have to be cool with running into out-of-towners (like me!) all the time and driving behind sightseers on the Blue Ridge

    I have a friend who's lived in Bent Creek for last 5+ years and he is in love with it. It's a little far outside the core of Asheville, but it's the neighborhood closest to riding. Family neighborhood, almost everyone rides. Riding the fire roads near the neighborhood felt like walking the dog as we chatted with so many neighbors.

  9. #1309
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    Bellingham, WA would be my choice if I'm moving towards the woods. Great college town with a big heart and soul for the outdoors.

    And they just upped their commitment to mountain biking.

    https://www.bellinghamherald.com/new...215427675.html
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  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafekett View Post
    Yeah, Asheville is great. It's blowing up quickly, not sure how much longer it will be affordable except in comparison to ridiculous prices here. Main pros of Asheville:

    - Beer is incredible. Good mix of smaller breweries and a few ridiculous large ones like Sierra Nevada and Oskar Blues
    - Riding is incredible. Trails everywhere, tons of chunky rooty steep terrain, creek crossings, etc
    - Good variety of other activities, especially paddle sports
    - Food, beer, most things are cheap

    There are some cons depending on how you see things:

    - It's pretty cold in the winter and aggressively hot in the Summer by our standards. In winter the cold isn't going to keep you from riding much, but the heat definitely can cause problems in the Summer. Summer is shuttle season for many. The heat is oppressive particularly on the trails due to humidity
    - You're in North Carolina. I love NC but it's NC, and it's not a very progressive state at the moment. Better, Asheville is very liberal, which has made the conservative state government reluctant to spend state money there on roads etc.
    - Asheville is definitely a tourist destination, always has been. You have to be cool with running into out-of-towners (like me!) all the time and driving behind sightseers on the Blue Ridge
    This is a good synopsis. All of North Carolina is blowing up. Miss the BBQ, technical riding, and rhododendron canopy trails. I don't miss the heat of the summer and high humidity. You can have all the great beer in the world but having to change your shirt 4 times a day in the summer and sticking to your car seats is for kids. We recently went back to visit my parents and my 8 year old daughter said "daddy I can't breathe very good here..." to give those who have never been some perspective of 90 degrees and 90% humidity. Humidity creates bone chilling winters as well.

    Speaking of beer, some friends still in the area say the breweries there are beginning to feel the over saturation and poor timing of aggressive A'ville brewery expansions - namely Sierra Nevada, New Belgium, Oskar Blues with layoffs or speculation due to flat sales. You probably won't read about it, but people know people locally and its happening...

  11. #1311
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    The startup breweries feeling the pressure is not just a local issue, the market got over saturated quite a few years ago. I believe it was 2017 where America started the year with more craft breweries than it ended with. This was a first in the modern craft era post 2010.

    In reality, I haven't personally felt like this was a bad thing, just the market ebb and flow. I think some "craft" breweries can't even justify their existence and I won't shed a tear if they go. For the bay area people I'm looking at Devil's Canyon. All their beers taste the same and nothing is significant about any one of them. I think they are using the same base malt for all their beers to cut down on cost. If that place closed down and was replaced by any type of housing I'd say that it would be an overall positive effect on the bay area.

  12. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    This is a good synopsis. All of North Carolina is blowing up. Miss the BBQ, technical riding, and rhododendron canopy trails. I don't miss the heat of the summer and high humidity. You can have all the great beer in the world but having to change your shirt 4 times a day in the summer and sticking to your car seats is for kids. We recently went back to visit my parents and my 8 year old daughter said "daddy I can't breathe very good here..." to give those who have never been some perspective of 90 degrees and 90% humidity. Humidity creates bone chilling winters as well.
    Oh yeah. I'm from Charlotte originally and every time I visit and it is crazy how much development is happening as far as apartments, breweries, restaurants, etc. It's starting to really feel like Orange County. I don't think the weather is as bad as you say, yeah it's hot but you also have AC everywhere. You can't easily do 4 hour midday summer rides pedaling the whole time but it's not like you're in Arizona in the summer. Most of my friends there paddle which takes the suck out of the hottest parts of Summer -- go for a ride in the morning when it's cool, paddle when it's hot. Don't have much experience with Asheville in the winter, but I'm always in Bryson City in December and don't find it too cold. I always ride Tsali at least once while I'm there, typically in the morning, and last few years it's been low 40s. It's low 40s when I ride on winter mornings here in SF too, so maybe my tolerance for cold is high.

    One thing I forgot to mention is that I personally feel NC is a pretty tough place for those with allergies. I've had allergies to grass, pollen, etc since childhood and I found they improved a good bit when I moved to CA.

  13. #1313
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    Bellingham, WA would be my choice if I'm moving towards the woods. Great college town with a big heart and soul for the outdoors.

    And they just upped their commitment to mountain biking.

    https://www.bellinghamherald.com/new...215427675.html
    Just remember it always rains in the PNW. lowlands, and mountains, nothing but rain, gray and 33 degrees.

  14. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Just remember it always rains in the PNW. lowlands, and mountains, nothing but rain, gray and 33 degrees.
    And no good burritos. Probably why Kurt Cobain pulled the trigger. Stay away! I'm not even sure why I'm leaving there for two weeks tomorrow. I'll make sure to post some photos so you can share in my misery.

  15. #1315
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    And no good burritos. Probably why Kurt Cobain pulled the trigger. Stay away! I'm not even sure why I'm leaving there for two weeks tomorrow. I'll make sure to post some photos so you can share in my misery.
    As long as you know going in you are not moving there for Bay Area type sunshine you're perfectly good!

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  16. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafekett View Post
    Oh yeah. I'm from Charlotte originally and every time I visit and it is crazy how much development is happening as far as apartments, breweries, restaurants, etc. It's starting to really feel like Orange County. I don't think the weather is as bad as you say, yeah it's hot but you also have AC everywhere. You can't easily do 4 hour midday summer rides pedaling the whole time but it's not like you're in Arizona in the summer.
    I just did Arkansas a few weeks ago.

    There's like 20 minutes when you first start the ride where you tell yourself "if I just don't go too hard and keep moving, the airflow will keep me cool". And for about 20 minutes, it actually works. After that, you feel terrible and like you are dying the whole time. Descents, etc., never really cool you down anymore. It's a horrible way to live IMO in the summer. At least in AZ you can go ride above 5000 or 7000' and cool off in any heatwave. When you have to have A/C everywhere, the weather is pretty bad IME. It's great that some of these places now have trails, but they are pretty difficult to live in for a significant percentage of the year. At other times in the year, they are nice, but IME, there are places you can live with far better tradeoffs.

    Had some light rain yesterday on my ride, it was in the 60s, still t-shirt and shorts weather here in Alaska. Humidity was off the charts though (for us), so we got soaked to the bone riding uphill. Last time I was that soaked from humidity and sweat was AR.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  17. #1317
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    Note sure if anyone cares, but I decided to drive around Washington for a few days iwth my son, just to see what kinda stuff we might do if we lived there. Flew into PDX Sunday with no set plan, picked up mi coche from over by Lackamas Lake in Camas. It was freaking hot. Previous day I helped a friend in SJ change his brakes and I was dying in the 90F or whatever heat it was. Was so happy to be back in San Mateo at 72F and breezy. So I couldn't take anymore heat and decided to drive to the Washington coast. Went over to I-5 through the outskirts of Vancouver because someone had asked about it on this thread. Blackberries everywhere, very tasty. Mostly acreage out there, very pretty, though the main crop seems to be new developments or signs proposing new developments. Enjoy your commute. Picked up a steak and sausages from the Top Meat Market and did a run through Walmart for some camping supplies and beer (yes they have some local stuff)...

    On and off traffic on I-5 north, so we gave up outside Chehalis and camped at the Barrier Dam campground along the Cowlitz River. Got some fishing in, more to stand in the river and cool off. Felt so good and there was a bald eagle circling overhead for a bit. Sausages from the meat market were excellent later.
    My son and I tried to sleep outside on the ground because it was so damn hot, but the mosquitos were devouring him so I dumped out the car except for the soft stuff and we slept in it. It was even hotter inside but no bugs. Then a pack of coyotes came by and I was thrilled I wasn't outside on the ground. Other than the coyotes, it reminded me of summer school in Davis; we didn't have AC then either.

    Next day out to Olympic National Park through a bunch of small towns. Mostly kind of run down looking, though one of them was quite nice and we loitered for a while at a park. Geez I love the drive through espresso stands.

    5 minutes short of the coast it went from clear and sunny to typical totally grey coastal, but it felt so good. Stayed for several hours at "Beach #2", which looked like it might be hard to access if there'd been any recent rainfall. Reminded me of the Oregon coast. These aren't beaches for people watching; they're pretty natural beaches, the kind that I only ever otherwise glimpse in TV features about the inevitable destruction of the PNW coastline by a tsunami.

    I found one spot on the beach where I actually had one bar of 4G. Booked a campsite at Hard Rain (which is a restaurant) near the Hoh River and the entrance to the Hoh rainforest. Camp wasn't so great, but the facility was better than the prior night. It was kinda cold and I hadn't brought any warm clothes. We sessioned a big pile of dirt in the parking lot.

    The next day in the Hoh Rainforest was fantastic. You must go at some point too. It was also my birthday, so I had Hard Rain's bacon cheeseburger at 8:30am before driving into the park. After a hike, including a black bear crossing our path, we tried to emulate Mick Dodge and ford a creek barefoot. It was freezing, mushy, and sticky, like wading through a massive iced kale smoothie. I'll keep my shoes on, Mick. Mid afternoon and we hung out fishing by the Hoh outside the park where I again did not catch any fish. Morning fog burned off and it was sunny till we left. Stopped in Forks WA for bug bite cream, firewood, a fish someone else had caught and conveniently packaged, and pie. It was kinda cold and totally grey. There was an "Outdoor Outfitters" store where I contemplated buying a jacket but goddamnit everything was in L, XL or 2XL sizes. Some sketchy characters hanging about the very nice looking kid's park. Reminded me of Hawaii, where I put my son into a playground slide one AM and a bum came shooting out the other end. Guess he'd been sleeping in there and was surprised that any child might actually go down the slide.

    Up 101 through the grey. Near the bridge over the Sol Duc is a long section of highway under construction. I'm a year older, wiser; my gut told me it was perfect for cracking a windshield, so drive slow. The locals behind me were upset, wanting to take it at freeway speed, but as I sneered at them in the rear view one of them headed southbound kicked up a rock and took a divit out near the driver side. Damn you, Forks.

    Lake Crescent looked so fantastic I almost splattered a deer coming round a corner. We were both admiring the view. Quite windy on the north end with white caps. Wished I could stay, the staff at Hard Rain recommended the campsite at the West end of the lake.

    Going up away from the lake I got a glimpse of the Olympic mountains in my rear view mirror and to the left the Strait of Juan de Fuca. Amazing. I couldn't find any spot to pull over so I drove that section of highway again. Nearest campground was Salt Creek on the north coast of the peninsula, so I turned left. From the top of the hill on 101, you can see clear to Victoria BC. What a sight. NW on the road down to the water, past rollings hills full of wild flowers with snowy mountains in the background, missing only men in liederhosen. The Salt Creek campground was fantastic and I will definitely go back there, but with a fricken reservation. I made friends and shared someone else's spot. It was like a beautiful April evening in San Mateo, meaning cold and with gusts to 25 mph. To stay warm, I wore my life jacket and pounded an extra beer. Lots of wildlife, deer roaming around, crows and raccoons just waiting to swoop in on an unattended dinner plate. I put my son to sleep but that extra beer needed out at midnight; I said hello to the raccoons keeping the party alive by our fire pit, who totally ignored me. Was like waking up on the couch at a Davis house party and wondering WTF the strangers in the kitchen were.

    Next morning it was grey again but not windy. Lots of kids biking around, and they looked pro. Two kids were sessioning a rock in a sloped field. The temperature warmed up a bit but the grey persisted; annoyingly, I could see the damn Canadians were enjoying a clear day over in Victoria. My T-Mobile phone congratulated me on entering Canada; roaming charges may apply.

    I meant to take the turn off to Hurricane Ridge in Port Angeles, which was wholly unimpressive from the car, other than the skate park, which I then regretted not riding. And speaking of disappointment, I've heard crap about Sequim as some sort of promised land for sun seekers in WA, being in the rain shadow and what not. Well, it was raining there. At least Port Angeles had a cool looking skate park. Is Seattle gonna be miserable like this? Crap, I'd driven 45 minutes past the Hurricane Ridge turn off; now we'd never make the ferry if we went back. So onto the ferry. Right around Kitsap you're back in "civilization": a legit looking Taco Time stands like a sentry, welcoming travelers back from the wild. Across the street, Umpqua bank. A bank? I'd seen a bear, bald eagle, fish, many deer, but couldn't recall sighting any banks the past few days. If I hadn't brought $200 I'd have been trading furs and pelts.

    I'd never driven onto a ferry before. I highly recommend the trip. For about eighteen bucks we got a great view of downtown Seattle with the Olympic mountains in the back. Beer and concessions are available, although I have no clue why you'd want a beer 15 minutes before driving out of a boat and into downtown Seattle, and I like beer very much. On the way out, some gang banger paced alongside blasting unc unc unc, so I put on my son's playlist, rolled down the windows, and we crawled through Seattle traffic, battling the unc unc with songs about gummi bears.

    Off to Green Lake Park north of downtown which has a skate park and some serious looking dirt jumps. Disappointingly, there are two columns of advanced jumps and one IMO crummy beginner-intermediate line, bunch of low and long jumps that I hate. You have to pedal up a gravel road to get enough speed. Couple of dudes were absolutely killing it there. There was also a sign prohibiting just about all the things that happen at the Shells dirt jumps in Foster City OTHER than dirt jumping (like RC cars).

    The skate park is quite good, although the bigger bowls go vertical for a foot or two at the top, which seems excessive. It was busy.

    My luck ran out finding a camping site. Everything was booked and I'm writing this in a hotel near Seatac. And I was so looking forward to sleeping in a car one more night!

    So, if you are toying with this idea of leaving the Bay Area, go ahead, get out there and explore. See where your whims and the winds carry you. You don't need much, a couple of $79 Southwest tickets, money for gas and a Walmart run, maybe an old Toyota off Craigslist. Go!

  18. #1318
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    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

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    Californians have the same nasty habit as crossfitters or vegans. Its one of the first things they will bring up or drop unsolicited into a conversation haha. i was guilty of that for a bit when i first moved to the PNW.

    But honestly, the culture of the major metro areas in the PNW is so similar to that of the bay area that its really hard to tell who is a life long local, and who is a transplant from down south... unless of course you have bear bumper stickers and flags on your cars, at your house, and on your cellphone case.

    Its just pushback against gentrification not californians specifically. And really, the pushpack is honestly unnoticeable unless you are actively looking and are into being recreationally offended. More media scare bait that hypes up an exceptionally rare problem "that could seriously affect you and your loved ones next!".

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    I hung out near Greenlake skate park and dirt jumps Wed until traffic subsided (which was like 7:30p). I still hit traffic south of I-90 heading to Tukwila for the night. Woke up to clouds and rain; had meant to drive up to Duthie with my son before lunch, but the I-90 floating bridge was closed due to SeaFair and it was traffic armageddon. The thought of two hours round trip in the car to get to the Duthie... We ended up just going to Seward Park and watching the planes (which was pretty awesome).

    What was not awesome was the drive south on I-5. The prior night, the Goog said it'd be a bit over 2 hours to get down to PDX. I think it took about that long to slog through Renton to Tacoma. Pretty much every time I've driven this stretch of I-5 it has sucked big time. It felt like driving 101 down to San Jose on a Friday afternoon. I-5N was backed up even farther.

    Wide open after Olympia and, as usual, no traffic on I-84 out to the Gorge. This morning I'm looking at Mt Hood and waiting for the bike shop to open so I can pick up my 2018 Transition Scout. Rock on!

  21. #1321
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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

    Move to Chico California. Some of the best riding in the north.







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    Last edited by JDTorr; 08-03-2018 at 11:04 PM.

  22. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDTorr View Post
    Move to Chico California. Some of the best riding in the north.







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    I gotta visit Chico. Never been!!!
    IPA will save America

  23. #1323
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    Honestly I canít believe no one on here has said granite bay.

    Fc, your neighbors will have Ferrariís and McLarens but be down to earth bay transplants that ride every day and are all about the outdoors and less expensive living.

    You can get a sick place in my neighborhood for just under 1m and be shocked at how nice it is compared to bay.

    Close to everything, high end everything, riding from the house, Tahoe in an hour, Auburn in 10 minutes, etc.

    Take a serious look. Honest.

  24. #1324
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    I am sure they also would not miss CA emissions standards cost for their trucks.

    But I think I already posted in this thread - economical contribution outside of the thin blue line of NY and CA liberal counties is quite underestimated.

  25. #1325
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    I thought the NorCal forum was not allowed to leave NorCal
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    Sadly I have a very specialized job that provides few opportunities for living where I want. So...ignoring the need for a job:

    Hood River, OR. I've been twice and really loved it. Just hung out, didn't ride. But the people are nice, seems fairly affordable. You can get to PDX in good time if you need a city or airport. Trails right out the door from what I see.

    Bellingham, WA. Same as Hood River for the pros. But I haven't been there in many years.

    If I won the lottery tomorrow:

    Sud Tirol region of Italy (Bolzano/Ortisei/Val Gardena/etc.). Spent 5 or 6 days there a few falls back. Simply loved it. Riding in summer, snow in winter. Great food; nice people. No clue about the reality. Expensive in the popular resort areas, cheaper in other areas.

  27. #1327
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    60% of tech workers can't afford to buy a new home.

    12% of households can afford a home.

    https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/ar...y-13132157.php
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  28. #1328
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    This is the time of year to really check out those other destinations. Either scorching, on fire or Smokey. Mostly manageable but this is where the Bay Area shines.
    IPA will save America

  29. #1329
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    This is the time of year to really check out those other destinations. Either scorching, on fire or Smokey. Mostly manageable but this is where the Bay Area shines.
    The Bay Area can have shitty air quality year round. Thatís why I had to leave. I left in October 2016 and there was a fire in Demo area, and that August was rough too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man View Post
    Honestly I canít believe no one on here has said granite bay.

    Fc, your neighbors will have Ferrariís and McLarens but be down to earth bay transplants that ride every day and are all about the outdoors and less expensive living.

    You can get a sick place in my neighborhood for just under 1m and be shocked at how nice it is compared to bay.

    Close to everything, high end everything, riding from the house, Tahoe in an hour, Auburn in 10 minutes, etc.

    Take a serious look. Honest.
    Dude. Shut UP. We don't need any more of "them" on their cellphones blocking the driveways waiting in line at Dutch Bros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdawson808 View Post
    Sadly I have a very specialized job that provides few opportunities for living where I want. So...ignoring the need for a job:

    Hood River, OR. I've been twice and really loved it. Just hung out, didn't ride. But the people are nice, seems fairly affordable. You can get to PDX in good time if you need a city or airport. Trails right out the door from what I see.

    You missed out. The riding there is fantastic. It is worth a trip. rent a bike from Hood River Cycles.

  32. #1332
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    Best schools in the Bay Area:
    https://www.sfgate.com/education_clo...e-13142012.php


    Best cities to raise a family in CA
    https://www.sfgate.com/mommyfiles/ar...-a-9234753.php

    Folsom!!!!!
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  33. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Best cities to raise a family in CA
    https://www.sfgate.com/mommyfiles/ar...-a-9234753.php

    Folsom!!!!!
    I have to take exception with one aspect of that story.
    They call Davis affordable. That is laughable. It may be highly affordable if youíre considering coming from the Bay Area (most of the cities in that story are in the Bay Area). Compared to its surrounding communities however, Davis home values are ridiculous. Sky high home values.


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  34. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I have to take exception with one aspect of that story.
    They call Davis affordable. That is laughable. It may be highly affordable if youíre considering coming from the Bay Area (most of the cities in that story are in the Bay Area). Compared to its surrounding communities however, Davis home values are ridiculous. Sky high home values.


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    There high paying jobs there? Sounds like an inflated economy due to college housing?

    Reno housing near UNR college is popping I hear.
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    We left East TN five years ago, spent twenty years riding the Appalachians from PA to AL, the South is the South, take it or leave it. Hot and humid, cold and wet, low wages, lot of income disparity, trails are good when they're not wet or worn out. If you've never lived in the South, I'd suggest thinking twice. Even Asheville ain't all that, good for a weekend, then move on.

    We did a lot of research, traveled all over the states, having lived in every state in the PNW, I can say we have favorites. I'm not much for rain, but if I had to live in the cold and wet, Bellingham is about as good as it gets. Trails are good and plentiful, liberal town, not smokey or smogy, winters are dark and wet, so if youain't done a PNW winter, think twice before moving. The PNW invented SAD.

    I grew up in the Sierras, moved away from Tahoe in 1991, returned in 2017, currently living in the Eastern Sierras. Until we got smoked out this summer, I really had no complaints. Trails and access have blown up in the past twenty years, depending on when and where you ride, there are still lots of empty trails begging for riders. I'd move here again in an instant, but the smoke is a bit much this summer.

    We are fortunate to have portable, good paying jobs, so we can move anywhere.

    Next stop: mountains, ocean, no snow, no smoke, near the kids.

    If I had to pick one place for year round riding, it's hard to beat Fruita/GJ, though Bend always looks good when I can avoid the tourists; gawd they are just loving that place to death!

    So how's San Luis these days? As a kid I used to visit a buddy in Templeton. I hear the riding is good, not a ton of folks, not a ton of opportunity, but it's got the goods.
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    Wait, did you just suggest that buying a house for just under a million dollars is a good thing?

    I got ten acres backing up to thousands of acres of BLM, nearest neighbor 1/8 mile, ten minute drive to work, trails out my back yard, twenty minutes to Tahoe, twenty minutes to Reno, rarely gets over 100deg, rarely goes under twenty degrees, no snow to speak of, 15yo custom home with 2500sq ft and all the amentities = 500k.

    Best part: Small town, no competition for trails, and I rarely see another rider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man View Post
    Honestly I canít believe no one on here has said granite bay.

    Fc, your neighbors will have Ferrariís and McLarens but be down to earth bay transplants that ride every day and are all about the outdoors and less expensive living.

    You can get a sick place in my neighborhood for just under 1m and be shocked at how nice it is compared to bay.

    Close to everything, high end everything, riding from the house, Tahoe in an hour, Auburn in 10 minutes, etc.

    Take a serious look. Honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    You missed out. The riding there is fantastic. It is worth a trip. rent a bike from Hood River Cycles.
    Actually I think I'm heading back next month. So I'll be sure to do that. I chatted with a guy at HRC for a while. Seemed like good people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Best schools in the Bay Area:
    https://www.sfgate.com/education_clo...e-13142012.php


    Best cities to raise a family in CA
    https://www.sfgate.com/mommyfiles/ar...-a-9234753.php

    Folsom!!!!!
    Please gods, let more people move to Folsom! I'm being serious. People who like food other than burgers and beer. How about a French restaurant? People who don't drive jacked 4x4s. More liberals. Please. And of course people with lots of money who can drive up the value of my house for when I sell it.

  39. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    We left East TN five years ago, spent twenty years riding the Appalachians from PA to AL, the South is the South, take it or leave it. Hot and humid, cold and wet, low wages, lot of income disparity, trails are good when they're not wet or worn out. If you've never lived in the South, I'd suggest thinking twice. Even Asheville ain't all that, good for a weekend, then move on.

    We did a lot of research, traveled all over the states, having lived in every state in the PNW, I can say we have favorites. I'm not much for rain, but if I had to live in the cold and wet, Bellingham is about as good as it gets. Trails are good and plentiful, liberal town, not smokey or smogy, winters are dark and wet, so if youain't done a PNW winter, think twice before moving. The PNW invented SAD.

    I grew up in the Sierras, moved away from Tahoe in 1991, returned in 2017, currently living in the Eastern Sierras. Until we got smoked out this summer, I really had no complaints. Trails and access have blown up in the past twenty years, depending on when and where you ride, there are still lots of empty trails begging for riders. I'd move here again in an instant, but the smoke is a bit much this summer.

    We are fortunate to have portable, good paying jobs, so we can move anywhere.

    Next stop: mountains, ocean, no snow, no smoke, near the kids.

    If I had to pick one place for year round riding, it's hard to beat Fruita/GJ, though Bend always looks good when I can avoid the tourists; gawd they are just loving that place to death!

    So how's San Luis these days? As a kid I used to visit a buddy in Templeton. I hear the riding is good, not a ton of folks, not a ton of opportunity, but it's got the goods.
    Good, candid, golden info.
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  40. #1340
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    What about Hawaii? Is that tenable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man View Post
    Honestly I canít believe no one on here has said granite bay... You can get a sick place in my neighborhood for just under 1m and be shocked at how nice it is compared to bay.
    Can do that in the Santa Cruz Mountains too (quite a lot under, actually)

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    What about Hawaii? Is that tenable?
    Land is relatively cheap on the Big Island, but Pele has been making her presence felt lately.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zonic Man View Post
    Honestly I canít believe no one on here has said granite bay.
    Seriously...thatís basically a Suck-ramento suburb. I lived in Fair Oaks in the early 90ís...that whole valley sucks.

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    Sac has changed a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdawson808 View Post
    Actually I think I'm heading back next month. So I'll be sure to do that. I chatted with a guy at HRC for a while. Seemed like good people.
    Im going back for labor day weekend. Holla. Rode the new Golden Eagle pump track out by Hood River Valley High School on my way out.

    I've attached some other photos. I came back early. It was very hot and very smokey all the way down I-5. Absolutely tragic. All the major peaks are obscured by haze; hell, you can barely see more than a mile or two. You cannot sit in this haze at freeway speed for 13 hours and not have it touch some primal nerve; there is nowhere to run. Then, descending in the bay area, it clears out.Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180802_081052.jpg
    It's sideways for whatever reason in this forum, but you get the idea. Couldn't have asked for nicer weather in Seattle.


    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180805_195612.jpg
    Sunset in the Gorge prior to the haze.

    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180809_183329.jpg
    Shasta lake. But pretty much all the way from outside Bend to Sac it looked like this. And it was hot.

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    An interesting article on why people leave Palo Alto.....

    https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/.../why-they-left

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Wait, did you just suggest that buying a house for just under a million dollars is a good thing?

    I got ten acres backing up to thousands of acres of BLM, nearest neighbor 1/8 mile, ten minute drive to work, trails out my back yard, twenty minutes to Tahoe, twenty minutes to Reno, rarely gets over 100deg, rarely goes under twenty degrees, no snow to speak of, 15yo custom home with 2500sq ft and all the amentities = 500k.

    Best part: Small town, no competition for trails, and I rarely see another rider.
    Pretty sure he was joking about Granite Bay.

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    Carson City? Curious as to how the trails are in winter and if the weather is rideable without being hard-ass. I'm no longer young and don't mind 40's but lower than that can be brutal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Wait, did you just suggest that buying a house for just under a million dollars is a good thing?

    I got ten acres backing up to thousands of acres of BLM, nearest neighbor 1/8 mile, ten minute drive to work, trails out my back yard, twenty minutes to Tahoe, twenty minutes to Reno, rarely gets over 100deg, rarely goes under twenty degrees, no snow to speak of, 15yo custom home with 2500sq ft and all the amentities = 500k.

    Best part: Small town, no competition for trails, and I rarely see another rider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Sac has changed a lot.
    I donít doubt that Sac has changed in the last 20 years, and great for you if itís working out for you. The amount of drive-by-shootings when I lived there was crazy. The things that havenít changed there are the traffic, the sprawl/growth, the weather, and the lack of any elevation...you know, mountains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by king_dave72 View Post
    Carson City? Curious as to how the trails are in winter and if the weather is rideable without being hard-ass. I'm no longer young and don't mind 40's but lower than that can be brutal.
    Even that area is getting too crowded. Last time I was at Genoa Bar there were at least 20 people there, ridiculous!

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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I donít doubt that Sac has changed in the last 20 years, and great for you if itís working out for you. The amount of drive-by-shootings when I lived there was crazy. The things that havenít changed there are the traffic, the sprawl/growth, the weather, and the lack of any elevation...you know, mountains.
    A guy in the Bay Area complaining about the sprawl and traffic in Sacramento? Now thatís just funny.

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    ^^^I was simply responding to someone suggesting Granite Bay was a good place to move. The Bay Area sucks as much as Sac...except for the weather part...and we have a few hills to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    ^^^I was simply responding to someone suggesting Granite Bay was a good place to move. The Bay Area sucks as much as Sac...except for the weather part...and we have a few hills to ride.
    Plenty of hills in the eastern Sac burbs. Closer to Tahoe and Dville too. No argument about the weather though.. itís damn hot in the summer.

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    Gary Paasch rockin' Golden Eagle pump track in Hood River.

    In 4k even: https://youtu.be/Y_uHWlDspI0
    Moar boring https://youtu.be/yJu805eBzFw

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    Here's a question:

    Would you rather have a 30 minute commute to work but have to drive 25 minutes to trails
    OR
    A 45 minute commute but a 10 minute drive to trails?

    Unless you ride every day, the shorter commute would be better overall, but I know once I'm home I'm not real excited to head back out into traffic again.

  55. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Here's a question:

    Would you rather have a 30 minute commute to work but have to drive 25 minutes to trails
    OR
    A 45 minute commute but a 10 minute drive to trails?

    Unless you ride every day, the shorter commute would be better overall, but I know once I'm home I'm not real excited to head back out into traffic again.
    why not just go straight from work to the trails?

    Always choose a short commute to work. that is something you ned to go to 5+ times per week, and the rest of your life slots in around your work (not neccessarily a lower priority though). the less time you spend commuting, the more time you have for life.

  56. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    why not just go straight from work to the trails?

    Always choose a short commute to work. that is something you ned to go to 5+ times per week, and the rest of your life slots in around your work (not neccessarily a lower priority though). the less time you spend commuting, the more time you have for life.
    Spot on. Couple times a week I put the bike in the trunk w/ the back seat down tho and go to work, change after and hit the trails. Then home. You'll just need a vehicle that can handle the bike as too many thieves around everywhere to leave it on a rack (even locked). Oh and have the back and side windows tinted dark so nobody can look in and buy a cheap commuter (that's mechanically sound) so nobody will look at the car!! Never had an issue in 10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Spot on. Couple times a week I put the bike in the trunk w/ the back seat down tho and go to work, change after and hit the trails. Then home. You'll just need a vehicle that can handle the bike as too many thieves around everywhere to leave it on a rack (even locked). Oh and have the back and side windows tinted dark so nobody can look in and buy a cheap commuter (that's mechanically sound) so nobody will look at the car!! Never had an issue in 10 years.
    Do people's work really not allow you to store your bike in the office somewhere? an unused cubicle, closet, hallway, office, secure gated area, balcony, etc? Ive never had the problem of having to keep my bike in my car.

    And its not like you have to deal with muddy bikes in the bay area haha.

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    Please, Please, please bring your $ Million+ in home equity to the Front Range and engage in a bidding war with other Californians for a house that was $300K five years ago, and is now $850K. You'll be getting a steal! And that will continue to prop up the real estate bubble for another 3-4 years until I can leave this hell hole.

    After you move here, be sure to complain about the traffic (bad by any standard), the weather (the Front Range has had dozens of damaging hail storms just this summer), the lack of infrastructure, and the fact that the state government is owned by the oil and gas industry to the detriment of everyone else in the state. Oh, and enjoy visiting the trailheads that are full at 8:00AM, and especially enjoy stopping and doing "The Lean" every 500 feet for the hoards of hikers who hate you and your sport.

    I'll be laughing all the way to the bank as I move to ------.

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    Better still, live close to the trails and telecommute.

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    Yes, this is a thing. For some people keeping bike indoors, esp in an office, is like you brought a horse into a hospital. People ask you about it and the boss is worried it might be an obstruction during a fire. It has also been seen as unprofessional. Also, in some places I have worked, space has been a rare commodity not to be given up to a bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Do people's work really not allow you to store your bike in the office somewhere? an unused cubicle, closet, hallway, office, secure gated area, balcony, etc? Ive never had the problem of having to keep my bike in my car.

    And its not like you have to deal with muddy bikes in the bay area haha.

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    If it's only a 10 min drive to trails why not ride to the trail? I live a 15 min drive to trails but it only takes 20-25 min to ride there.

    It's far better to start and end your bike ride at home rather than a car. Esp with all the car burglaries at TH's.

    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Here's a question:

    Would you rather have a 30 minute commute to work but have to drive 25 minutes to trails
    OR
    A 45 minute commute but a 10 minute drive to trails?

    Unless you ride every day, the shorter commute would be better overall, but I know once I'm home I'm not real excited to head back out into traffic again.

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    I would love to be able to telecommute but it is impossible in my line of work and is very rare in my field.

    I wonder how many people actually have the type of work that is telecommutable but management doesn't allow it. I think the number of people doing it is quite small.


    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    Better still, live close to the trails and telecommute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    why not just go straight from work to the trails?
    Because I have a kid that someone has to pick up from school My prior setup Redwood City (work) -> Burlingame (school) -> Foster City (dirt jumps) -> San Mateo (home) was unworkable. Spending 1.5 hours in the car to get 30-45 minutes of riding sucks.

    Also I'm pretty sure I want to be near I-90. Question is how far east makes the most sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Also I'm pretty sure I want to be near I-90. Question is how far east makes the most sense...
    during the summer, you won't have to pick your kid up from school haha. And during the school year, you will probably get used to doing night rides, which you can do after dinner.

    In either case, i would still recommend living close to work, unless you have the ability to work off hours, like a 6-3 or 5-2 kind of schedule. if you are only riding 1-2 times during the week and then on the weekends, you are only fighting traffic to ride 2 days out of the week, vs possibly 5 days a week for your work commute. Plus, if you are doing night rides, there wont be traffic on the way to or from your ride. Tokul, Tiger, and Duthie are all really great night ride spots once you get to know them a little bit.

    If i was you i would try and live somewhere close to work, but also close to a shitty little xc trail system. That way you can always get out on your bike for a quick spin if you feel like it, even if you don't have time for a hour or two long ride. I live 12 mins from work, and 10 mins from St Edwards park in kirkland. makes it easy to get in a lazy sunday afternoon, or quick weekday night ride, and also makes it easy to keep my trail dog in shape for when i take him out for "real" rides on the weekends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    After you move here, be sure to complain about the traffic (bad by any standard), the weather (the Front Range has had dozens of damaging hail storms just this summer), the lack of infrastructure, and the fact that the state government is owned by the oil and gas industry to the detriment of everyone else in the state. Oh, and enjoy visiting the trailheads that are full at 8:00AM, and especially enjoy stopping and doing "The Lean" every 500 feet for the hoards of hikers who hate you and your sport.

    I'll be laughing all the way to the bank as I move to ------.
    The traffic here isn't bad and the trails aren't packed at all. Maybe you should have to ride around 200+ hikers on Mt Tam who refuse to even move an inch out of the way for you then pretend like you almost ran them over with a bull dozer.

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    Come on, Mt Tam is bliss and the lack of trail access is also great. I like baby boomers mansplaining single track rules too, that's helpful. Please drive up the housing costs some more so I can escape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    during the summer, you won't have to pick your kid up from school haha. And during the school year, you will probably get used to doing night rides, which you can do after dinner.
    Yeah, just camp But I see there are camps at Duthie even.


    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    In either case, i would still recommend living close to work, unless you have the ability to work off hours, like a 6-3 or 5-2 kind of schedule.
    I did the math. Living near Klahanie vs say Eastgate adds 2 hours of driving time per week to Bellevue. Doesn't sound like too much, but over a year it adds up to almost 100 hours = 2.5 weeks. I only take hourly gigs so that makes quite a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Yeah, just camp But I see there are camps at Duthie even.




    I did the math. Living near Klahanie vs say Eastgate adds 2 hours of driving time per week to Bellevue. Doesn't sound like too much, but over a year it adds up to almost 100 hours = 2.5 weeks. I only take hourly gigs so that makes quite a difference.
    Meh, your kid will soon be 11 or 12 and will be able to ride their bike places instead of relying on you to pick them up. Or you can form a carpool with other parents so that 1 parent picks up the group only on certain days.

    Regardless, if you are moving somewhere for the recreational opportunities, it would be stupid to intentionally shortchange yourself on free time by picking a location with a long commute to work IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by king_dave72 View Post
    Yes, this is a thing. For some people keeping bike indoors, esp in an office, is like you brought a horse into a hospital. People ask you about it and the boss is worried it might be an obstruction during a fire. It has also been seen as unprofessional. Also, in some places I have worked, space has been a rare commodity not to be given up to a bike.
    Plus the fact it's a PITA to pull the bike outta the trunk, haul it up a flight of stairs, down the hall w/ everyone looking at you. And then haul it back down and finagle it back in the car. Naa, I'll just leave it in the car.

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    This is my favorite thread on any forums ever. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

  71. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Plus the fact it's a PITA to pull the bike outta the trunk, haul it up a flight of stairs, down the hall w/ everyone looking at you. And then haul it back down and finagle it back in the car. Naa, I'll just leave it in the car.
    Really? Its THAT tough to pull the bike out of your trunk? Bike rack + elevator make it easy for me. And after the second time bringing it to the office, everyone knows the deal and considers it normal. Not to mention that seeing a MTB might start a convo and find you a riding partner in your building or company that you didnt know rode or wanted to ride MTB.

    Regardless where you keep your bike during work, i agree that it makes riding during the week much more convenient if you can just drive straight from work to a trailhead without having to stop at home.

  72. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    The traffic here isn't bad and the trails aren't packed at all. Maybe you should have to ride around 200+ hikers on Mt Tam who refuse to even move an inch out of the way for you then pretend like you almost ran them over with a bull dozer.
    LMAO.

    The traffic isn't bad? It was the 21st worst in the US in 2017, and it gets worse every single day. It is worse than Las Vegas, worse than Tampa, nearly as bad as Austin and Portland.

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...120th-in-world


    Trails aren't packed? Maybe not at 10 AM on a weekday. Try riding a Jeffco trail on a weekend and get back to us. Hell, there were cars lining the highway for 1/2 mile at the West Magnolia trailhead outside Nederland (40 miles from Denver, 20 miles from Boulder) last weekend, and the official parking area had people trapped in the lot because people had stuffed their cars in there. Ten years ago you would have had maybe five cars there total, 20 years ago there wasn't even a trailhead or a parking area, you just slotted your vehicle in front of a cut in the fence and enjoyed the trail completely alone.

    California is barely growing, so what you see now is what you get in the future, but the Front Range is exploding, and the population growth is mostly people moving here for the outdoors, which translates to an amplified load on the outdoor amenities.

    I really don't care to hang around and see the Front Range become the same shit show as California. Ten years ago Colorado was halfway to California levels of congestion, now it is 90% there, in another 10 years the Front Range will be even more screwed up than Silicon Valley. They actually build infrastucture in California, Colorado defines progress as adding a single, mega-expensive Lexus lane to a highway that needs to double in capacity. I attended a CDOT meeting a few months ago, and the speaker said *every* *single* state highway and interstate on the Front Range carries at least 20% more traffic than they were designed for, some are 100% over.

    I hope the rest of California moves here so I can cash out big time when I reach retirement in a few years and move somewhere else. I've already found several places where I'll be living fat, riding empty trails, and not sitting in traffic. I just have to make sure that wherever I end up doesn't appeal to Front Rangers or Californians. Maybe I should study the level of American vehicle and gun ownership ahead of time.

  73. #1373
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    I got home from the skate park and two of my neighbors houses are suddenly for sale in addition to the other one I knew was going on the market. All in a row. I cruised onto Redfin to check photos (didn't expect much, since they used to park their 4x4s on their front lawns) but there's no interior pics since, duh, at 1.3 mil they're just tear downs anyway. Now if only the neighbors that throw their trash in my yard would move along... I could do without their broken crack pipes and and half eaten fast food on my lawn.

    Won't you be my neighbor and my neighbor and my neighbor?
    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180818_143811.jpgWant to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180728_074610.jpg

  74. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO.

    The traffic isn't bad? It was the 21st worst in the US in 2017, and it gets worse every single day. It is worse than Las Vegas, worse than Tampa, nearly as bad as Austin and Portland.

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...120th-in-world


    Trails aren't packed? Maybe not at 10 AM on a weekday. Try riding a Jeffco trail on a weekend and get back to us. Hell, there were cars lining the highway for 1/2 mile at the West Magnolia trailhead outside Nederland (40 miles from Denver, 20 miles from Boulder) last weekend, and the official parking area had people trapped in the lot because people had stuffed their cars in there. Ten years ago you would have had maybe five cars there total, 20 years ago there wasn't even a trailhead or a parking area, you just slotted your vehicle in front of a cut in the fence and enjoyed the trail completely alone.

    California is barely growing, so what you see now is what you get in the future, but the Front Range is exploding, and the population growth is mostly people moving here for the outdoors, which translates to an amplified load on the outdoor amenities.

    I really don't care to hang around and see the Front Range become the same shit show as California. Ten years ago Colorado was halfway to California levels of congestion, now it is 90% there, in another 10 years the Front Range will be even more screwed up than Silicon Valley. They actually build infrastucture in California, Colorado defines progress as adding a single, mega-expensive Lexus lane to a highway that needs to double in capacity. I attended a CDOT meeting a few months ago, and the speaker said *every* *single* state highway and interstate on the Front Range carries at least 20% more traffic than they were designed for, some are 100% over.

    I hope the rest of California moves here so I can cash out big time when I reach retirement in a few years and move somewhere else. I've already found several places where I'll be living fat, riding empty trails, and not sitting in traffic. I just have to make sure that wherever I end up doesn't appeal to Front Rangers or Californians. Maybe I should study the level of American vehicle and gun ownership ahead of time.
    You realize I just came from #3 on that list so yeah....traffic isn't bad here.

    I haven't been to ride any trails in Nederland so maybe I'll experience "crowded trails" when I do. Last time I did Walker Ranch on a weekend I saw only 1-2 other riders and a handful of hikers.

    I mean if you're shocked to how things are different from 20 years ago I'm not surprised why you hate it. Cycling has become a lot more mainstream since then.

  75. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO.

    The traffic isn't bad? It was the 21st worst in the US in 2017, and it gets worse every single day. It is worse than Las Vegas, worse than Tampa, nearly as bad as Austin and Portland.

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...120th-in-world

    I hope the rest of California moves here so I can cash out big time when I reach retirement in a few years and move somewhere else. I've already found several places where I'll be living fat, riding empty trails, and not sitting in traffic. I just have to make sure that wherever I end up doesn't appeal to Front Rangers or Californians. Maybe I should study the level of American vehicle and gun ownership ahead of time.
    But all of the Front Range isn't as bad as it is in Metro Denver. With that amount of bitterness, it seems like you are pretty close to punching in that card to head to less populated areas in CO or the mountain west. I moved to Fort Collins in 1999 (waiting for my Native sticker in the mail, any day now right?) from Atlanta GA and sound about your level before I moved. Before that I was in NJ, PA, NC. All of those states have traffic that makes CO seem like a Wyoming Sunday drive. Just got back from 10 days in South Carolina and GA. Think we have it bad? Try 5-6 light cycles to get through a red light, if you can even see it in front of you. It's bad all over any metro area. But Denver will continue to grow, North Face, Smartwool, etc VF brands just announced their relocation to Denver. https://www.denverpost.com/2018/08/1...-headquarters/ CO is a lot bigger than metro Denver if you can work remote. I'm 55 minutes to Denver airport driving (1:15 Greenride Shuttle if door to door) and book my flights at off-peak I-25 traffic times.

    Our neighbors in their late 50's cashed out of Fort Collins 18 months ago and moved to Montrose, CO. They are still working and the lack of local airport (he's a Geologist) has them second guessing their decision. Simple things like Trader Joe's, Costco, Manicure/Pedicure places, etc I think are on her mind. Grass always seems greener until you are gone sometimes I guess. Fort Collins isn't too bad unless you have to recreate/drive during peak times, which I'm fortunate (or unfortunate) to be self employed and never have to deal with traffic, filled trailhead's, etc.. I ride when everyone else is working for the most part. I moved to CO for the dry climate with no rain, 300 days of sun, year round riding for the most part, a few hours drive to some pretty amazing skiing/riding (STEAMBOAT!) and within 7 hours can be riding most places always featured on these "bucket list of places to ride." Did I mention no rain? It really does not rain here, which could be good and bad. Kids actually come out of their houses in CO when it rains.

    CO is the real deal. Wyoming is the real deal. Utah is amazing. It's all so close to us. If I didn't have kids in middle school I'd have acreage in Palidase, Fruita, Mack, or Loma CO. But something about "good schools for our kids" and some really nice fitness centers keeps her happy here. Heck, we even have a Costco, Trader Joe's and rumors of In-N-Out keep surfacing. Living is easy in Colorado.

    Even Vermont is moving to Denver.

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  76. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Plus the fact it's a PITA to pull the bike outta the trunk, haul it up a flight of stairs, down the hall w/ everyone looking at you. And then haul it back down and finagle it back in the car. Naa, I'll just leave it in the car.
    Agree agree. It gets olddddd.
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  77. #1377
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    And then all the questions from people/coworkers... how far do you ride? *answer* REALLY? Why not just drive? Do you wear a helmet? Do you wear those spandex shorts, too? Isn't it dangerous? Why do bikers shave their legs? Have you ever crashed?

    etc


    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Agree agree. It gets olddddd.

  78. #1378
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    FB is building a new office in Burlingame for, presumably, a few thousand employees. Drat, guess the secret is out that Peninsula Ave exit is a way to get around Burlingame Ave and 3rd Ave congestion.

    Re: my prior question about commute time, I spoke with a friend who moved from RWC to Arden in Sac and now to Orangevale (and upgraded to 0.5 acre lot). Both he and his wife were very much convinced that the peace and quiet in Orangvale is worth the extra drive. And they're closer to Tahoe.

  79. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by king_dave72 View Post
    And then all the questions from people/coworkers... how far do you ride? *answer* REALLY? Why not just drive? Do you wear a helmet? Do you wear those spandex shorts, too? Isn't it dangerous? Why do bikers shave their legs? Have you ever crashed?

    etc
    At the 3 different offices i have worked at, i had to answer questions the first couple times i brought my bike in. After that, everyone just accepted i was the kook with the bike and never was asked about it again. Do those questions happen to you every day that you bring in your bike?

    IDK, seems like a really small, temporary inconvenience compared to how inconvenienced you are by a busted car window and/or stolen bike, or having to go home after work before heading out for a ride.

  80. #1380
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    You're right, the questions didn't continue with nearly the same frequency. And it didn't stop me from commuting or bringing my bike in. And, yes, worth it if it means your bike isn't stolen and/or your car broken into.

    But IME some work places do not allow bicycles inside, period. Even if it was out of the way or in your own office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    At the 3 different offices i have worked at, i had to answer questions the first couple times i brought my bike in. After that, everyone just accepted i was the kook with the bike and never was asked about it again. Do those questions happen to you every day that you bring in your bike?

    IDK, seems like a really small, temporary inconvenience compared to how inconvenienced you are by a busted car window and/or stolen bike, or having to go home after work before heading out for a ride.

  81. #1381
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    Guys, I'm not kidding about here in South/Western Placer County. Everywhere along the river or the lake has rad mountain biking.

    We've got miles and miles and miles of trails right out the door....not to mention everything auburn has to offer within 10 minutes, and then georgetown (30) and nevada city (inside an hour).

    PLUS it's still nice. A lot of the places mentioned are just not livable for people coming from the South Bay, due to family commitments, a sense of being, what you're used to...etc.

    We get a TON of bay area transplants here.

    And I couldn't tell you enough how different it is here in Granite Bay/Placer than it is in Sacramento. I'm 45 minutes from sacramento.

    Would you say that Santa Rosa is the same as San Francisco? Or Monterey is the same as San Jose?

  82. #1382
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    FWIW, it looks like their salary is actually $71k. The much larger figure quoted is salary plus all benefits. Still compensation paid through tax dollars, but a little misleading to say the pooper scoopes earn $185k/year.

    When i was at a big jobsite meeting in SOMA a few years back, the project team including big shot developer was walking the site when a homeless dude started screaming, jumped on the hood of the developers Mercedes, dropped his pants and took a shit. Hopped off the hood, and dumped the contents of his back pack on the hood (a whole bunch of blank CDs), and then calmly walked away. Human shit was a legit problem in SF when i was living there. Can't imagine its gotten better.

  84. #1384
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    well its been like two years since this thread was started... so id say make a decision already!!!!!!

  85. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by cald162 View Post
    well its been like two years since this thread was started... so id say make a decision already!!!!!!
    Japan!!!

  86. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by cald162 View Post
    well its been like two years since this thread was started... so id say make a decision already!!!!!!
    Dreaming is better!!

    Though many friends have left.
    IPA will save America

  87. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by cald162 View Post
    well its been like two years since this thread was started... so id say make a decision already!!!!!!
    I moved to Boulder a few months ago on a sabbatical and just officially quit my job today after being on unpaid leave.
    That work?

  88. #1388
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    I moved to Boulder a few months ago on a sabbatical and just officially quit my job today after being on unpaid leave.
    That work?
    Woo Hoo! Keep that real estate bubble going in Boulder. I have 3 1/2 more years before I can bail, and leave it to become exactly what you just left.

  89. #1389
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    Woo Hoo! Keep that real estate bubble going in Boulder. I have 3 1/2 more years before I can bail, and leave it to become exactly what you just left.
    Great outdoors, Great amenities, affordable. Pick two.


    The grass always looks greener my friend. Make sure to appreciate what you currently have, its a pretty great spot. Kinda goes along with the saying "Show me a smoking hot lady, and i can show you a guy tired of banging her".

  90. #1390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Great outdoors, Great amenities, affordable. Pick two.
    You could even add "good work opportunities" and you'd still only be able to pick two.

  91. #1391
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    This is rent today!

    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-sjm-l-rent-0905-90-01.png

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/...ent-increases/

    And it's about to go up.

    I live near Cupertino and my next door neighbor moved as they got pushed out. Two folks in my block cashed out and left.
    IPA will save America

  92. #1392
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    Those figures seem low. I'm don't see any 1BRs in SF for $2.5k. My last apartment in the sunset was $4k for a 2BR/2BA.

  93. #1393
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    Concord higher than SF ??? I don't think so.

    Maybe their "median" is including rent-controlled apartments?

  94. #1394
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    Quote Originally Posted by andytiedye View Post
    Concord higher than SF ??? I don't think so.

    Maybe their "median" is including rent-controlled apartments?
    And Richmond more expensive than Campbell, about the same as SJ and Mt View. I'm programmed to question stats and I'll question where this info came from and it's validity.

  95. #1395
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    moar stats?

    "Seven-digit bids for suburban, tear-down homes. Small one-bedrooms and converted garages rented and stuffed to capacity. Families and workers living in RVs lining local roads.
    Your eyes and ears havenít deceived you: San Jose is the most expensive metro in the country to buy, and one of the most expensive for renting a home.
    The average homeowner in San Jose needs to spend more than half their income on a mortgage, according to a study released Thursday by real estate website Zillow. In the San Francisco metro, which includes Alameda, San Mateo and Contra Costa counties, the average homeowner has to budget 45 percent of their paycheck for a mortgage."

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/...ousing-in-u-s/Name:  SJM-L-UNAFFORD-0907-90-011.png
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    IPA will save America

  96. #1396
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    gotta say Texas is looking good these days, lake life trading a 2br for an actual mansion

  97. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Pride View Post
    gotta say Texas is looking good these days, lake life trading a 2br for an actual mansion
    But then you'd be living in Texas :P

    While the bay area has gone full looney in housing prices, I still think it's worth it to have a smaller place with easier access to nature or fun downtowns. I guess the moral of the story is, stay away from having kids so that you don't need more room

  98. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    But then you'd be living in Texas :P

    While the bay area has gone full looney in housing prices, I still think it's worth it to have a smaller place with easier access to nature or fun downtowns. I guess the moral of the story is, stay away from having kids so that you don't need more room
    Birth rate here is dropping for sure. Thereís a very telling stat on that.

    Crazy
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  99. #1399
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    But then you'd be living in Texas :P

    While the bay area has gone full looney in housing prices, I still think it's worth it to have a smaller place with easier access to nature or fun downtowns. I guess the moral of the story is, stay away from having kids so that you don't need more room
    I do have a very large extended family and we must be strange because we always love getting together, so in that aspect yes its appealing.

  100. #1400
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    But then you'd be living in Texas :P

    While the bay area has gone full looney in housing prices, I still think it's worth it to have a smaller place with easier access to nature or fun downtowns. I guess the moral of the story is, stay away from having kids so that you don't need more room
    Expensive housing means less kids.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/09/...ost-of-living/

    "Even Bay Area tech workers blame a lot of their problems on housing. The regionís sky-high rents and home prices are exacerbating their commutes, forcing their paychecks to stretch thinner, and, according to a new survey ó keeping them childless longer.

    Though some residents blame the areaís highly paid tech workers for driving up the cost of housing, data increasingly shows that these days, even tech workers feel squeezed by the Bay Areaís scorching prices. Fifty-eight percent of tech workers surveyed recently said they have delayed starting a family due to the rising cost of living, according to a poll that included employees from Apple, Uber, Google, LinkedIn, Facebook, Lyft and other Bay Area companies."
    IPA will save America

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