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  1. #1
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Skip to 21:30 for Strava relevant information.

    http://marin.granicus.com/MediaPlaye...p;clip_id=6680

    Please think about what you are doing.

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    Long time lurker, first time poster. As my first post, this probably doesn't carry much weight, but:

    Be careful of what you post. This is a public site which may be used to fuel their argument. Calling the Parks director a b**** isn't going to help anybody.

    Use Strava? Please watch this:-3sj84ee.jpg

  3. #3
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Probably not.

  4. #4
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    Harsh.
    Seems like the board is more into enforcement than conflict resolution like OPENING UP MORE TRAILS TO BIKES.
    You know Linda, like sharing, EVENLY!
    Fer chris sakes now there goin to start taking bikes again?
    WTF???
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  5. #5
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:


  6. #6
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    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?

    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?
    You are an idiot!

  7. #7
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?
    You are an idiot!
    Delete your KOM and you are my bro. Positive!


  8. #8
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  9. #9
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Ya got that right.
    Cue angry villagers with pitchforks and FIRE!!
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  10. #10
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Ya got that right.
    Cue angry villagers with pitchforks and FIRE!!
    It feels like a bad dream. There goes the locals only benefit of lack of enforcement. I've been saying this for ages, one day the clampdown will come. Looks like its ON.

  11. #11
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    its not just the illegal trails, its posting 25+ mph on the legal trails, keep all your tracks private.

    Lets have some mtbers at the meeting on the 23rd too, its going to be a zoo with all the cows, pigs and horses there.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post

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    Google search John Parulis: That dude's a full-on 9/11 Truther lunatic--and more than a little obsessed with mountain bikers. Another Vandeman in the making...
    Last edited by dirtvert; 07-11-2013 at 09:46 AM.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

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  13. #13
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    Nobody out in the woods is going to lose their bike. Confiscations, if any, will happen some place near vehicles. You think those lazy muffakkas wanna carry a bike a few miles?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  14. #14
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    But front wheels aren't very heavy.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    But front wheels aren't very heavy.
    Mine weights around 80lbs with me on the bike.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. As my first post, this probably doesn't carry much weight, but:

    Be careful of what you post. This is a public site which may be used to fuel their argument. Calling the Parks director a b**** isn't going to help anybody.

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    That was me. It ain't gonna change anything. She clearly is looking for ways to go overboard with this. Seriously, look at how we are getting screwed. First, they were looking for our help to get the bond measure passed, and the first thing she did once it did, was to increase fines and hire more rangers to issue tickets.

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  17. #17
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    Could someone please post where it says they have authority to confiscate, and by what means can they do this? Iím not being a d*ck , I am interested in the extent of their authority.
    To love me is to rep me, world domination is eminent/imminent/immanent.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    Could someone please post where it says they have authority to confiscate, and by what means can they do this? Iím not being a d*ck , I am interested in the extent of their authority.
    nevermind, I found it.
    Chapter 02.01 - LAND USE REGULATIONS?GENERAL
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    If Dahl is going to propose confiscation as the punishment for violation of county rules, then she should apply that policy equally amongst all user groups. Use all of those extra rangers and funds to crack down on all users.

    02.02.110 - Sanitation.

    No person using district lands shall do any of the following:

    A.

    Urinate or defecate, or permit dogs or other domestic animals, including horses, to urinate or defecate, within fifty feet of any entrance to district lands, nor within one hundred feet of any water source, including wells, creeks and streams;


    _____________


    02.01.080 - Impoundment.

    The district may impound any animal, property or equipment found to be in violation of these regulations. Items shall be disposed of in accordance with Section 5561.5 of the California Public Resources Code and adopted procedures.

  20. #20
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    Part of me misses living in Cali but the other part of me is so glad we do not have to deal with half the crap here in NC and we have incredible trails without any speed limits.

    Irresponsible parents buy their kids bike and protective armor and tell their kids to have fun?

    Haha what a hoot.

    No, irresponsible parents buy their kids a bike and NO armor and tell their kids to have fun.

    Maybe she thinks responsible parenting is sticking them in front of an Xbox.

    I will agree, if you are hitting illegal trails and breaking laws, keep your Strava to yourself.
    It will only fuel their fire and give them more leverage to pass laws. Also just because you use a fake name, it doesn't mean they can not trace it back to you. If you use a smart phone it will be real easy and even if you don't, you still upload it using an IP. However, I am sure a very small percentage if any of those riders on the the trail she took her hybrid on and so elaborately painted a picture of bikers almost killing her, knocking old people down and running over children were actually using Strava.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    That was me. It ain't gonna change anything. She clearly is looking for ways to go overboard with this. Seriously, look at how we are getting screwed. First, they were looking for our help to get the bond measure passed, and the first thing she did once it did, was to increase fines and hire more rangers to issue tickets.

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...

    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Skip to 21:30 for Strava relevant information.

    OSD Meeting 130709 - Jul 9th, 2013

    Please think about what you are doing.

    Thank you
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  23. #23
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Part of me misses living in Cali but the other part of me is so glad we do not have to deal with half the crap here in NC and we have incredible trails without any speed limits.

    Irresponsible parents buy their kids bike and protective armor and tell their kids to have fun?

    Haha what a hoot.

    No, irresponsible parents buy their kids a bike and NO armor and tell their kids to have fun.

    Maybe she thinks responsible parenting is sticking them in front of an Xbox.

    I will agree, if you are hitting illegal trails and breaking laws, keep your Strava to yourself.
    It will only fuel their fire and give them more leverage to pass laws. Also just because you use a fake name, it doesn't mean they can not trace it back to you. If you use a smart phone it will be real easy and even if you don't, you still upload it using an IP. However, I am sure a very small percentage if any of those riders on the the trail she took her hybrid on and so elaborately painted a picture of bikers almost killing her, knocking old people down and running over children were actually using Strava.

  24. #24
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
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    http://youtu.be/4eYSpIz2FjU

  25. #25
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    I'm not the legal type, but could someone please explain to me how open space has the authority to confiscate a $5,000+ bicycle and 'dispose' of it appropriately. Aside from being an insane policy, I'd have to imagine there is some federal or state statute against this.

    As per the licensing of bicycles, that power is relegated to the state, so Open Space could not enforce something like that as far as I know.

    I have to say this really feels like a slap in the face after mtber's supported measure A. The fact that they are looking to hire new rangers to sit in their truck at the bottom of trails and stake out mtber's (I've seen them at the bottom of Big Tree's sitting in their truck doing nothing way too often lately) is mind boggling to me.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.
    Don't be a weenis, you are welcome to your opinion even if it disagrees with somebody else here. So stand by your beliefs if you believe them.

    You are right, calling her a b!tch doesn't make anything better but not calling her a b!tch doesn't change the fact that she is a fvcking b!tch.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.
    Weenis, I'm just another guy who spends too much time on this board and you should openly speak your mind. No hard feelings.

    Dahl feels that it's good politics to stick it to cyclists, so she does. Problem with politicians is that they don't think long term. If all they do is exploit this regrettable incident to make life worse for cyclists in Marin, this will be remembered in 10-15 years when they have to go back to the polls for another bond.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  28. #28
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    it's kind of mind boggling that the only response the open space board seemed able to imagine is to increase enforcement. listening to that clip really makes the solution seem obvious...open more trails to bikes so that we're not forced to ride on illegal trails! give us some bike-only trails!

  29. #29
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    it's kind of mind boggling that the only response the open space board seemed able to imagine is to increase enforcement. listening to that clip really makes the solution seem obvious...open more trails to bikes so that we're not forced to ride on illegal trails! give us some bike-only trails!
    Please mention that during the public comment period. It can be done by letter. The comment period starts July 23.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post

    You are right, calling her a b!tch doesn't make anything better but not calling her a b!tch doesn't change the fact that she is a fvcking b!tch.
    I'm more inclined toward hysterical bytch over the almost killed nonsense and stupid bytch for buying a hybrid. I also think a good fvcking could improve her disposition a lot.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  31. #31
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Seems to me that confiscating anything (bikes, horses, dogs) would be a logistical nightmare (inventory, insurance, transporting, liability, etc.) for them. If an official tried to confiscate my bike (theoretically speaking, for an alleged infraction) I'd make sure that he/she fully documents with a receipt my perfectly tuned bike with a written inventory/parts list and pictures. It can be expensive for them when my disk brakes don't work the same, my wheels are out of true, or new dents and dings show up, etc. upon return.
    Please don't mistake my enthusiasm for mountain biking as an indication of my skill level.

  32. #32
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    I'm more inclined toward hysterical bytch over the almost killed nonsense and stupid bytch for buying a hybrid. I also think a good fvcking could improve her disposition a lot.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...
    I was thinking the same thing.
    I don't rattle.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by zicked View Post
    Seems to me that confiscating anything (bikes, horses, dogs) would be a logistical nightmare (inventory, insurance, transporting, liability, etc.) for them. If an official tried to confiscate my bike (theoretically speaking, for an alleged infraction) I'd make sure that he/she fully documents with a receipt my perfectly tuned bike with a written inventory/parts list and pictures. It can be expensive for them when my disk brakes don't work the same, my wheels are out of true, or new dents and dings show up, etc. upon return.
    Police dept's do this all the time with vehicles involved in DUI's; parking violations and etc.

    Not only may you need to get a court release to get it back you'll end up owing for "towing" and storage.

    (In the case of dogs very common in bite cases; for horses it's usually because of neglect)

    Don't be complacent and think this can't/won't happen to bikes.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Police dept's do this all the time with vehicles involved in DUI's; parking violations and etc.

    Not only may you need to get a court release to get it back you'll end up owing for "towing" and storage.

    (In the case of dogs very common in bite cases; for horses it's usually because of neglect)

    Don't be complacent and think this can't/won't happen to bikes.


    If you are complacent, and you don't think it will happen, or that they won't do enforcement this way, then your a fool.
    These faks are idiots at managing there lands.
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  36. #36
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    Doesn't California not only take street racers cars but have them watch as the car is crushed?

    So what again makes anyone think they won't take your bike?
    And if they do ever give it back, what would make anyone think they would care if it is in the same condition they confiscated it in.

    Not that I am encouraging anyone to break the law but realistically I know most the laws in Cali towards cyclists are so ridiculous you can't help but break them. So if a cop tries to stop you and you want to keep your bike, you best not stop if you can get away.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  37. #37
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    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Like.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    +1!
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  40. #40
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    out running a ranger is so much fun...oh wait, that would require them getting out of the truck...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
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  42. #42
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    Don't try it.. Resisting is a felony and believe me, the rangers are quite adept at going cop on you. They love a good chase.
    Quote Originally Posted by itstreky View Post
    out running a ranger is so much fun...oh wait, that would require them getting out of the truck...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    +1

    Clearly that stop sign isn't needed if everyone blows through it unharmed.
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  44. #44
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    Dude it resulted in increased enforcement right before your very eyes. It's right there. The data is not helping in any way. It is narrowing the focus and increasing the frequency of enforcement. This is a very bad thing. It is also having a tremendously negative impact on the RTMP talks and the public mood. In the war for hearts and minds we lose - an additional negative.

    The imbalance is evident by the unfair survey that still showed bikes as 20 percent of the user base. There is no need to rub it in the open space boards face. Now they have quantifiable data to show how badly they need more rangers, the power to confiscate bikes and increased fines.

    I've been saying this was going to happen for years and yet this claim is made over and over, Strava will help! Can you please see how deluded you are being? Also please keep in mind that the actions of the Strava users are now negatively affecting the non Strava users. All I am asking is you consider deleting the illegal segments.

  45. #45
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    Yes budgie you must be right providing pages upon pages of easily accessible data of folks racing on legal and illegal trails for the haters to waive in front of land managers can only help access.

    Thanks for setting me straight.
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAYR751 View Post

    As per the licensing of bicycles, that power is relegated to the state, so Open Space could not enforce something like that as far as I know.
    As I understand the law in California, that's legal. Local authorities can implement bike licenses, but only to residents within their district.
    (i.e. in Palo Alto, you're supposed to have a bike license to ride on the streets, but that only applies to Palo Alto residents. ) It's perfectly
    legal for people from other juristrictions to ride a bike in Palo Alto w/o a license.

  47. #47
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    What...

    Are you telling me that the stravapologists' argument that land managers would use strava as a tool to open more land access vs. restrict it even further isn't happening? Say it ain't so...

    By the way, this is the same logic being used in the stop sign example above. When's the last time you saw a stop sign removed? The argument sucked before and still sucks. Even when actual events prove the supposition is bs they still cling to it.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    agreed. I also don't think folks should be publicly tracking poach rides, but the genie is out of the bottle and it could turn out to work in our favor by showing that we have meaningful numbers of trail users whose needs/desires with respect to our open spaces are not being met.

    There's also an economic argument to be made. The Tamo Flow trail is a great example of how mountain biking has the power to attract people from all over the bay area, who go and spend money at local restaurants, bike shops etc. In Wyoming when bootleg trails on Teton Pass were being threatened with closure some grad student did research on the economic benefits of the trails to local businesses, and that ultimately helped persuade local officials to endorse the trails. It would be great to be able to get that kind of data locally.

  49. #49
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Yes budgie you must be right providing pages upon pages of easily accessible data of folks racing on legal and illegal trails for the haters to waive in front of land managers can only help access.

    Thanks for setting me straight.
    On thing we can count on is, haters gone hate.



    A rational person may look at Strava data and say hey wow these bike riders could use more trails. We are however dealing with a breed of hater that only the Marin locals know its true ugliness. These people will ride in a private jet and bust the crews balls about the foam cups and plastic stir sticks. They will look you in the eye and tell you how bad the foam cup is for the planet, while they sit solo in the back of a jet using 300+ gallons of fuel and hour - for themselves.

    The Strava data just gives them purpose and rage to wipe us off the planet as far as they could care. Bike free zone here we come.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Bike free zone here we come.
    I just wanted to point out that the area where the incident between the kid on the bike and old lady from the east bay on a rented horse occurred is in what is already a bike free zone. All single-track in the area (the three surrounding open space areas) is illegal for bikes and some of the fire roads are as well. The only legal access to the top of Big Trees is a fire road that is steeper than big rock ridge and not really climb-able. So in reality, establishing a bike free zone means absolutely nothing because nothing is really changed from the current rules, meaning that people will poach, and not wear bike bells, which could lead to more incidents like this.

    Of all the trails in Novato, Big Trees and and Ship's Mast are probably the best suited to multi-use. The trails have a mellow slope so you can climb and descend them easily, and are decently wide. (They even drove a mini-tractor up Big Tree's last summer). I recall reading somewhere that when these trails were built they were suposed to be multi-use, but the horse stable at the bottom (which is a business) obviously didn't let that happen.

    Oh ya, don't strava illegal trails. It's really not hard to make your ride private.

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