Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 222
  1. #1
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Skip to 21:30 for Strava relevant information.

    http://marin.granicus.com/MediaPlaye...7&clip_id=6680

    Please think about what you are doing.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24
    Long time lurker, first time poster. As my first post, this probably doesn't carry much weight, but:

    Be careful of what you post. This is a public site which may be used to fuel their argument. Calling the Parks director a b**** isn't going to help anybody.

    Use Strava? Please watch this:-3sj84ee.jpg

  3. #3
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Probably not.

  4. #4
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Harsh.
    Seems like the board is more into enforcement than conflict resolution like OPENING UP MORE TRAILS TO BIKES.
    You know Linda, like sharing, EVENLY!
    Fer chris sakes now there goin to start taking bikes again?
    WTF???
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  5. #5
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:


  6. #6
    Old,slow,still havin fun.
    Reputation: fgiraffe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    958

    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?

    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?
    You are an idiot!

  7. #7
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    Use illegal trails and post times to Strava?
    You are an idiot!
    Delete your KOM and you are my bro. Positive!


  8. #8
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Name:  th_fat_lady_sings.jpg
Views: 2145
Size:  4.1 KB
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  9. #9
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Ya got that right.
    Cue angry villagers with pitchforks and FIRE!!
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  10. #10
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Ya got that right.
    Cue angry villagers with pitchforks and FIRE!!
    It feels like a bad dream. There goes the locals only benefit of lack of enforcement. I've been saying this for ages, one day the clampdown will come. Looks like its ON.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: sfgiantsfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,364
    its not just the illegal trails, its posting 25+ mph on the legal trails, keep all your tracks private.

    Lets have some mtbers at the meeting on the 23rd too, its going to be a zoo with all the cows, pigs and horses there.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  12. #12
    Dirty by Nature
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,301
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3SJ84EE.jpg 
Views:	849 
Size:	27.7 KB 
ID:	815066
    Google search John Parulis: That dude's a full-on 9/11 Truther lunatic--and more than a little obsessed with mountain bikers. Another Vandeman in the making...
    Last edited by dirtvert; 07-11-2013 at 08:46 AM.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,536
    Nobody out in the woods is going to lose their bike. Confiscations, if any, will happen some place near vehicles. You think those lazy muffakkas wanna carry a bike a few miles?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24
    But front wheels aren't very heavy.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,536
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    But front wheels aren't very heavy.
    Mine weights around 80lbs with me on the bike.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  16. #16
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    9,019
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    Long time lurker, first time poster. As my first post, this probably doesn't carry much weight, but:

    Be careful of what you post. This is a public site which may be used to fuel their argument. Calling the Parks director a b**** isn't going to help anybody.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	3SJ84EE.jpg 
Views:	849 
Size:	27.7 KB 
ID:	815066
    That was me. It ain't gonna change anything. She clearly is looking for ways to go overboard with this. Seriously, look at how we are getting screwed. First, they were looking for our help to get the bond measure passed, and the first thing she did once it did, was to increase fines and hire more rangers to issue tickets.

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Buzkil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    764
    Could someone please post where it says they have authority to confiscate, and by what means can they do this? Iím not being a d*ck , I am interested in the extent of their authority.
    To love me is to rep me, world domination is eminent/imminent/immanent.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Buzkil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    764
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    Could someone please post where it says they have authority to confiscate, and by what means can they do this? Iím not being a d*ck , I am interested in the extent of their authority.
    nevermind, I found it.
    Chapter 02.01 - LAND USE REGULATIONS?GENERAL
    To love me is to rep me, world domination is eminent/imminent/immanent.

  19. #19
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    If Dahl is going to propose confiscation as the punishment for violation of county rules, then she should apply that policy equally amongst all user groups. Use all of those extra rangers and funds to crack down on all users.

    02.02.110 - Sanitation.

    No person using district lands shall do any of the following:

    A.

    Urinate or defecate, or permit dogs or other domestic animals, including horses, to urinate or defecate, within fifty feet of any entrance to district lands, nor within one hundred feet of any water source, including wells, creeks and streams;


    _____________


    02.01.080 - Impoundment.

    The district may impound any animal, property or equipment found to be in violation of these regulations. Items shall be disposed of in accordance with Section 5561.5 of the California Public Resources Code and adopted procedures.

  20. #20
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Part of me misses living in Cali but the other part of me is so glad we do not have to deal with half the crap here in NC and we have incredible trails without any speed limits.

    Irresponsible parents buy their kids bike and protective armor and tell their kids to have fun?

    Haha what a hoot.

    No, irresponsible parents buy their kids a bike and NO armor and tell their kids to have fun.

    Maybe she thinks responsible parenting is sticking them in front of an Xbox.

    I will agree, if you are hitting illegal trails and breaking laws, keep your Strava to yourself.
    It will only fuel their fire and give them more leverage to pass laws. Also just because you use a fake name, it doesn't mean they can not trace it back to you. If you use a smart phone it will be real easy and even if you don't, you still upload it using an IP. However, I am sure a very small percentage if any of those riders on the the trail she took her hybrid on and so elaborately painted a picture of bikers almost killing her, knocking old people down and running over children were actually using Strava.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    That was me. It ain't gonna change anything. She clearly is looking for ways to go overboard with this. Seriously, look at how we are getting screwed. First, they were looking for our help to get the bond measure passed, and the first thing she did once it did, was to increase fines and hire more rangers to issue tickets.

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...

    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.

  22. #22
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Skip to 21:30 for Strava relevant information.

    OSD Meeting 130709 - Jul 9th, 2013

    Please think about what you are doing.

    Thank you
    Name:  Family guy barf.jpg
Views: 2853
Size:  34.2 KB
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  23. #23
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Part of me misses living in Cali but the other part of me is so glad we do not have to deal with half the crap here in NC and we have incredible trails without any speed limits.

    Irresponsible parents buy their kids bike and protective armor and tell their kids to have fun?

    Haha what a hoot.

    No, irresponsible parents buy their kids a bike and NO armor and tell their kids to have fun.

    Maybe she thinks responsible parenting is sticking them in front of an Xbox.

    I will agree, if you are hitting illegal trails and breaking laws, keep your Strava to yourself.
    It will only fuel their fire and give them more leverage to pass laws. Also just because you use a fake name, it doesn't mean they can not trace it back to you. If you use a smart phone it will be real easy and even if you don't, you still upload it using an IP. However, I am sure a very small percentage if any of those riders on the the trail she took her hybrid on and so elaborately painted a picture of bikers almost killing her, knocking old people down and running over children were actually using Strava.

  24. #24
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Name:  Family guy barf.jpg
Views: 2853
Size:  34.2 KB
    http://youtu.be/4eYSpIz2FjU

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: NAYR751's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    654
    I'm not the legal type, but could someone please explain to me how open space has the authority to confiscate a $5,000+ bicycle and 'dispose' of it appropriately. Aside from being an insane policy, I'd have to imagine there is some federal or state statute against this.

    As per the licensing of bicycles, that power is relegated to the state, so Open Space could not enforce something like that as far as I know.

    I have to say this really feels like a slap in the face after mtber's supported measure A. The fact that they are looking to hire new rangers to sit in their truck at the bottom of trails and stake out mtber's (I've seen them at the bottom of Big Tree's sitting in their truck doing nothing way too often lately) is mind boggling to me.

  26. #26
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.
    Don't be a weenis, you are welcome to your opinion even if it disagrees with somebody else here. So stand by your beliefs if you believe them.

    You are right, calling her a b!tch doesn't make anything better but not calling her a b!tch doesn't change the fact that she is a fvcking b!tch.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  27. #27
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    9,019
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    I apologize. I'd like to become part of this community, and pissing off one of the top posters isn't a good to start. I'm sorry.

    I just wanted to point out that both sides of the debate are watching these threads, just like they're watching Strava. The MTB opponents may use our words as ammo to sway the decision makers.



    Would be funny if you changed that post to talk about John Parulius though.
    Weenis, I'm just another guy who spends too much time on this board and you should openly speak your mind. No hard feelings.

    Dahl feels that it's good politics to stick it to cyclists, so she does. Problem with politicians is that they don't think long term. If all they do is exploit this regrettable incident to make life worse for cyclists in Marin, this will be remembered in 10-15 years when they have to go back to the polls for another bond.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardboiled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    699
    it's kind of mind boggling that the only response the open space board seemed able to imagine is to increase enforcement. listening to that clip really makes the solution seem obvious...open more trails to bikes so that we're not forced to ride on illegal trails! give us some bike-only trails!

  29. #29
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    it's kind of mind boggling that the only response the open space board seemed able to imagine is to increase enforcement. listening to that clip really makes the solution seem obvious...open more trails to bikes so that we're not forced to ride on illegal trails! give us some bike-only trails!
    Please mention that during the public comment period. It can be done by letter. The comment period starts July 23.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,536
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post

    You are right, calling her a b!tch doesn't make anything better but not calling her a b!tch doesn't change the fact that she is a fvcking b!tch.
    I'm more inclined toward hysterical bytch over the almost killed nonsense and stupid bytch for buying a hybrid. I also think a good fvcking could improve her disposition a lot.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zicked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    113

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Seems to me that confiscating anything (bikes, horses, dogs) would be a logistical nightmare (inventory, insurance, transporting, liability, etc.) for them. If an official tried to confiscate my bike (theoretically speaking, for an alleged infraction) I'd make sure that he/she fully documents with a receipt my perfectly tuned bike with a written inventory/parts list and pictures. It can be expensive for them when my disk brakes don't work the same, my wheels are out of true, or new dents and dings show up, etc. upon return.
    Please don't mistake my enthusiasm for mountain biking as an indication of my skill level.

  32. #32
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    I'm more inclined toward hysterical bytch over the almost killed nonsense and stupid bytch for buying a hybrid. I also think a good fvcking could improve her disposition a lot.
    Duuuuuuuuuudeeeeeeee, um: repeat after me: mellow, mellow, mellow

    http://youtu.be/4hWBj9JoUaA

  33. #33
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,732
    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post

    So, what should we call her? Cyclists' best friend? Frankly, this is making the East bay look like a cyclist dream in comparison...
    I was thinking the same thing.
    I don't rattle.

  34. #34
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,580
    Quote Originally Posted by zicked View Post
    Seems to me that confiscating anything (bikes, horses, dogs) would be a logistical nightmare (inventory, insurance, transporting, liability, etc.) for them. If an official tried to confiscate my bike (theoretically speaking, for an alleged infraction) I'd make sure that he/she fully documents with a receipt my perfectly tuned bike with a written inventory/parts list and pictures. It can be expensive for them when my disk brakes don't work the same, my wheels are out of true, or new dents and dings show up, etc. upon return.
    Police dept's do this all the time with vehicles involved in DUI's; parking violations and etc.

    Not only may you need to get a court release to get it back you'll end up owing for "towing" and storage.

    (In the case of dogs very common in bite cases; for horses it's usually because of neglect)

    Don't be complacent and think this can't/won't happen to bikes.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  35. #35
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Police dept's do this all the time with vehicles involved in DUI's; parking violations and etc.

    Not only may you need to get a court release to get it back you'll end up owing for "towing" and storage.

    (In the case of dogs very common in bite cases; for horses it's usually because of neglect)

    Don't be complacent and think this can't/won't happen to bikes.


    If you are complacent, and you don't think it will happen, or that they won't do enforcement this way, then your a fool.
    These faks are idiots at managing there lands.
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  36. #36
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Doesn't California not only take street racers cars but have them watch as the car is crushed?

    So what again makes anyone think they won't take your bike?
    And if they do ever give it back, what would make anyone think they would care if it is in the same condition they confiscated it in.

    Not that I am encouraging anyone to break the law but realistically I know most the laws in Cali towards cyclists are so ridiculous you can't help but break them. So if a cop tries to stop you and you want to keep your bike, you best not stop if you can get away.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TahoeBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5,753
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  38. #38
    jms
    jms is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,723
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Like.
    My Favorite Peeps:

  39. #39
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    +1!
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    60
    out running a ranger is so much fun...oh wait, that would require them getting out of the truck...

  41. #41
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Truckee29's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    266
    Don't try it.. Resisting is a felony and believe me, the rangers are quite adept at going cop on you. They love a good chase.
    Quote Originally Posted by itstreky View Post
    out running a ranger is so much fun...oh wait, that would require them getting out of the truck...

  43. #43
    Perpetual n00b
    Reputation: dgw2jr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,762
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    +1

    Clearly that stop sign isn't needed if everyone blows through it unharmed.
    The leg bone's connected to the Cash Bone!

  44. #44
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    Dude it resulted in increased enforcement right before your very eyes. It's right there. The data is not helping in any way. It is narrowing the focus and increasing the frequency of enforcement. This is a very bad thing. It is also having a tremendously negative impact on the RTMP talks and the public mood. In the war for hearts and minds we lose - an additional negative.

    The imbalance is evident by the unfair survey that still showed bikes as 20 percent of the user base. There is no need to rub it in the open space boards face. Now they have quantifiable data to show how badly they need more rangers, the power to confiscate bikes and increased fines.

    I've been saying this was going to happen for years and yet this claim is made over and over, Strava will help! Can you please see how deluded you are being? Also please keep in mind that the actions of the Strava users are now negatively affecting the non Strava users. All I am asking is you consider deleting the illegal segments.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TahoeBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5,753
    Yes budgie you must be right providing pages upon pages of easily accessible data of folks racing on legal and illegal trails for the haters to waive in front of land managers can only help access.

    Thanks for setting me straight.
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  46. #46
    Feral Roadie
    Reputation: bbense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    729
    Quote Originally Posted by NAYR751 View Post

    As per the licensing of bicycles, that power is relegated to the state, so Open Space could not enforce something like that as far as I know.
    As I understand the law in California, that's legal. Local authorities can implement bike licenses, but only to residents within their district.
    (i.e. in Palo Alto, you're supposed to have a bike license to ride on the streets, but that only applies to Palo Alto residents. ) It's perfectly
    legal for people from other juristrictions to ride a bike in Palo Alto w/o a license.

  47. #47
    Type A
    Reputation: Overhillthruthewoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    416
    What...

    Are you telling me that the stravapologists' argument that land managers would use strava as a tool to open more land access vs. restrict it even further isn't happening? Say it ain't so...

    By the way, this is the same logic being used in the stop sign example above. When's the last time you saw a stop sign removed? The argument sucked before and still sucks. Even when actual events prove the supposition is bs they still cling to it.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hardboiled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    699
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Well, I'll bite...

    I say this with all due respect, but watching this sad, sad video does make me wonder whether strava could play an important role here, to give some visibility to the very large constituency that these elected officials seem hell bent on ignoring. To borrow the (dumb) example used in the meeting, if 100% of cyclists blow through a stop sign, that either means A) all cyclists are reckless lawbreakers, or B) this particular stop sign is just pointless. In the past widespread civil disobedience has called attention to antiquated (and unjust) laws that don't reflect the current priorities of constituents. Strava gives visibility to this imbalance.

    Disclaimer: I don't think it's a good idea to track poached rides, and don't condone or practice it. But the info is out there & becoming increasingly difficult to explain away as the actions of a fringe minority. At what point does it tip over to become something useful, proof that MTB is a large constituency that is not going away?
    agreed. I also don't think folks should be publicly tracking poach rides, but the genie is out of the bottle and it could turn out to work in our favor by showing that we have meaningful numbers of trail users whose needs/desires with respect to our open spaces are not being met.

    There's also an economic argument to be made. The Tamo Flow trail is a great example of how mountain biking has the power to attract people from all over the bay area, who go and spend money at local restaurants, bike shops etc. In Wyoming when bootleg trails on Teton Pass were being threatened with closure some grad student did research on the economic benefits of the trails to local businesses, and that ultimately helped persuade local officials to endorse the trails. It would be great to be able to get that kind of data locally.

  49. #49
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Yes budgie you must be right providing pages upon pages of easily accessible data of folks racing on legal and illegal trails for the haters to waive in front of land managers can only help access.

    Thanks for setting me straight.
    On thing we can count on is, haters gone hate.



    A rational person may look at Strava data and say hey wow these bike riders could use more trails. We are however dealing with a breed of hater that only the Marin locals know its true ugliness. These people will ride in a private jet and bust the crews balls about the foam cups and plastic stir sticks. They will look you in the eye and tell you how bad the foam cup is for the planet, while they sit solo in the back of a jet using 300+ gallons of fuel and hour - for themselves.

    The Strava data just gives them purpose and rage to wipe us off the planet as far as they could care. Bike free zone here we come.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: NAYR751's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    654
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Bike free zone here we come.
    I just wanted to point out that the area where the incident between the kid on the bike and old lady from the east bay on a rented horse occurred is in what is already a bike free zone. All single-track in the area (the three surrounding open space areas) is illegal for bikes and some of the fire roads are as well. The only legal access to the top of Big Trees is a fire road that is steeper than big rock ridge and not really climb-able. So in reality, establishing a bike free zone means absolutely nothing because nothing is really changed from the current rules, meaning that people will poach, and not wear bike bells, which could lead to more incidents like this.

    Of all the trails in Novato, Big Trees and and Ship's Mast are probably the best suited to multi-use. The trails have a mellow slope so you can climb and descend them easily, and are decently wide. (They even drove a mini-tractor up Big Tree's last summer). I recall reading somewhere that when these trails were built they were suposed to be multi-use, but the horse stable at the bottom (which is a business) obviously didn't let that happen.

    Oh ya, don't strava illegal trails. It's really not hard to make your ride private.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    I think if you make it private you don't get on a leaderboard, no? Thats a big influence to people.

    I just don't get why they can't budget for more bike only trails. It just doesn't make much sense. I can understand living in Marin and wanting to go on nature walks without having to be scared of some guy on a fancy two wheel'd machine flying by them out of nowhere and threatening their safety. As bikers we see the people coming, we're polite, we try and avoid them. But from a hikers viewpoint the whole interaction is much different. They hear the chain slapping, suspension bouncing, biker heavy breathing, tires rolling, and then BAM here they come flying down the trail. A trail they might of been hiking on for many years and all of a sudden there is the influx of new riders with fancy clothing and fancy bikes perceived to be riding out of control. And then you have skidding and howling brakes.....it all makes a very bad image for mountain biking. Totally understandable. Takes away from the serenity when you have to be super aware and vigilante of bikers who could be/might be speeding down the trail.

    But why they can't understand that mountain biking is only getting bigger, not smaller? We need more areas like Tamarancho and such. If we had better destinations to go to, I could understand their anger and policing of non-bike trails. But as it is, trying to police bikers, and taking away more and more riding locations is never going to work and only going to make things worse. Fine, you want to take our bikes for poaching, give us tickets, harrass us? OKAY, well I'll understand that once they give us some places where we can call our own. We need more segregation on trails, shared use works great in some areas, but obviously not very well on singletrack in Marin.

    Work WITH us and not AGAINST us.

    Damn yuppies....

  52. #52
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,580

    "Civil Disobedience"...

    ...is probably the best spin we can put on the "unsanctioned" use (sounds better than illegal) of single track trails in Marin County (or anywhere)

    I've been watching Strava since the "Novato Horse Riders Thrown..." was linked up here; the poached segments present 2 weeks ago are still present as of this morning. Surely some Stravaholics would have thought of flagging these routes or at the very least going private. But no, 29 riders and 129 rides in Indian Tree OS are still out there for the whole world to see---40 mph DH and all. And some prolly using their real names...

    Can only conclude that these peeps are refusing to "go to the back of the bus"; hope y'all are planning on attending the meetings. A chance to talk to Ms Dahl in person.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  53. #53
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Yes budgie you must be right providing pages upon pages of easily accessible data of folks racing on legal and illegal trails for the haters to waive in front of land managers can only help access.

    Thanks for setting me straight.
    Whoa, what's with the sarcasm? I'm not trying to set you straight at all. Trying to have a civil discussion, and like I said I'm not the one putting poached trails on Strava. You asked a question, and I responded with another point of view, "with all due respect." The standard trail advocacy methods aren't working in this case, and I'm wondering aloud whether a shift in tactics is called for. It's getting increasingly difficult to make the "few bad apples" argument convincingly. If the haters are waving this data -- which is out there, like it or not -- then so can we.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squashyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    4,751
    If you guys are planning on going up against these ladies, be really careful - bad things can happen:

    I'm not sure how this works.

  55. #55
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,618
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I think if you make it private you don't get on a leaderboard, no? Thats a big influence to people.

    I just don't get why they can't budget for more bike only trails. It just doesn't make much sense. I can understand living in Marin and wanting to go on nature walks without having to be scared of some guy on a fancy two wheel'd machine flying by them out of nowhere and threatening their safety. As bikers we see the people coming, we're polite, we try and avoid them. But from a hikers viewpoint the whole interaction is much different. They hear the chain slapping, suspension bouncing, biker heavy breathing, tires rolling, and then BAM here they come flying down the trail. A trail they might of been hiking on for many years and all of a sudden there is the influx of new riders with fancy clothing and fancy bikes perceived to be riding out of control. And then you have skidding and howling brakes.....it all makes a very bad image for mountain biking. Totally understandable. Takes away from the serenity when you have to be super aware and vigilante of bikers who could be/might be speeding down the trail.

    But why they can't understand that mountain biking is only getting bigger, not smaller? We need more areas like Tamarancho and such. If we had better destinations to go to, I could understand their anger and policing of non-bike trails. But as it is, trying to police bikers, and taking away more and more riding locations is never going to work and only going to make things worse. Fine, you want to take our bikes for poaching, give us tickets, harrass us? OKAY, well I'll understand that once they give us some places where we can call our own. We need more segregation on trails, shared use works great in some areas, but obviously not very well on singletrack in Marin.

    Work WITH us and not AGAINST us.

    Damn yuppies....
    From today in the Marin IJ:
    Marin Voice: We can work together for trail safety - Marin Independent Journal

    For example, horses can be startled by the sudden appearance of a mountain biker, hiker or dog walker. Startled horses can throw their riders, leading to injuries. Mountain bikers who ride with excessive speed can startle horses or hikers who can't hear them coming. Narrow, steep trails with limited visibility cannot safely support multiple uses. Different trails for different users is one solution to this particular problem.

    to add - clearly MTB'rs are scared of nothing, horses are scared of everything....and hikers should not wear ear buds
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    deleted angry rant, lol

  57. #57
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,618
    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    ...is probably the best spin we can put on the "unsanctioned" use (sounds better than illegal) of single track trails in Marin County (or anywhere)

    I've been watching Strava since the "Novato Horse Riders Thrown..." was linked up here; the poached segments present 2 weeks ago are still present as of this morning. Surely some Stravaholics would have thought of flagging these routes or at the very least going private. But no, 29 riders and 129 rides in Indian Tree OS are still out there for the whole world to see---40 mph DH and all. And some prolly using their real names...

    Can only conclude that these peeps are refusing to "go to the back of the bus"; hope y'all are planning on attending the meetings. A chance to talk to Ms Dahl in person.
    'Volunteer' trails sound better...not illegal, not unsanctioned, not poaching - all 100% positive 'Volunteer' trails.

    keep hammering that home when some opposition brings up 'illegal'.

    my .02
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  58. #58
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I think if you make it private you don't get on a leaderboard, no? Thats a big influence to people.

    I just don't get why they can't budget for more bike only trails. It just doesn't make much sense. I can understand living in Marin and wanting to go on nature walks without having to be scared of some guy on a fancy two wheel'd machine flying by them out of nowhere and threatening their safety. As bikers we see the people coming, we're polite, we try and avoid them. But from a hikers viewpoint the whole interaction is much different. They hear the chain slapping, suspension bouncing, biker heavy breathing, tires rolling, and then BAM here they come flying down the trail. A trail they might of been hiking on for many years and all of a sudden there is the influx of new riders with fancy clothing and fancy bikes perceived to be riding out of control. And then you have skidding and howling brakes.....it all makes a very bad image for mountain biking. Totally understandable. Takes away from the serenity when you have to be super aware and vigilante of bikers who could be/might be speeding down the trail.

    But why they can't understand that mountain biking is only getting bigger, not smaller? We need more areas like Tamarancho and such. If we had better destinations to go to, I could understand their anger and policing of non-bike trails. But as it is, trying to police bikers, and taking away more and more riding locations is never going to work and only going to make things worse. Fine, you want to take our bikes for poaching, give us tickets, harrass us? OKAY, well I'll understand that once they give us some places where we can call our own. We need more segregation on trails, shared use works great in some areas, but obviously not very well on singletrack in Marin.

    Work WITH us and not AGAINST us.

    Damn yuppies....
    Based on the information provided to the Open Space surveys and land use study the Open Space Board knows this. Presenting the data is key. Strava is the worst way to present the data.

    We should all send a positive message to the Open Space during the comment period. Either in person or by letter.

    Yody if a bunch of well spoken nicely dressed dudes such as yourself showed up July 23rd, asked for bike specific trail and said that it would help stop illegal use maybe it would help.

    I'm going to send a letter in. So I can present ideas clearly.

    I hope we can all agree that Strava tracks on trails off limits to bikes are a very bad thing.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Based on the information provided to the Open Space surveys and land use study the Open Space Board knows this. Presenting the data is key. Strava is the worst way to present the data.

    We should all send a positive message to the Open Space during the comment period. Either in person or by letter.

    Yody if a bunch of well spoken nicely dressed dudes such as yourself showed up July 23rd, asked for bike specific trail and said that it would help stop illegal use maybe it would help.

    I'm going to send a letter in. So I can present ideas clearly.

    I hope we can all agree that Strava tracks on trails off limits to bikes are a very bad thing.
    I'd like to go, but honestly I'm not so organized that I will make it happen. Maybe somebody could organize a get together to hangout go the the meeting, and then beers and food after? Make it more of a fun outting than showing up for some dry boring city council meeting, might be more motivating for guys such as myself. Sorry I'm just full of ideas but can't put up the work. Just like the flowtrail, things don't get built sitting around thinking of ideas with no work. But hey its a thought?

  60. #60
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,650

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I'd like to go, but honestly I'm not so organized that I will make it happen. Maybe somebody could organize a get together to hangout go the the meeting, and then beers and food after? Make it more of a fun outting than showing up for some dry boring city council meeting, might be more motivating for guys such as myself. Sorry I'm just full of ideas but can't put up the work. Just like the flowtrail, things don't get built sitting around thinking of ideas with no work. But hey its a thought?
    I started the thread so people will think about their actions. Thinking about the issues is good as well.

    10AM on a Tuesday is rough. You may not even get to speak. It is however important to make a well stated public comment. There will be a long time to do this after July 23rd. More meetings and a public comment period.

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Whoa, what's with the sarcasm? I'm not trying to set you straight at all. Trying to have a civil discussion, and like I said I'm not the one putting poached trails on Strava. You asked a question, and I responded with another point of view, "with all due respect." The standard trail advocacy methods aren't working in this case, and I'm wondering aloud whether a shift in tactics is called for. It's getting increasingly difficult to make the "few bad apples" argument convincingly. If the haters are waving this data -- which is out there, like it or not -- then so can we.
    During that video the open space manager talked about all the poachers on illegal trails but never presented any evidence that any of them, (other than the incident in question) resulted in trail conflicts. The examples she cited as evidence that poaching was an issue were:
    1) commuters running a stop sign
    2) reckless cyclists on a paved bike path
    3) 2 kids that allegedly caused the incident.

    These examples are not representative of the MTB'ing community or the poachers either. If there are many publicly searchable examples of trails being poached and very few incidents of conflicts between MTB'ers and other trail users it seems like that is evidence in favour of more access not less.

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,175
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I started the thread so people will think about their actions. Thinking about the issues is good as well.

    10AM on a Tuesday is rough. You may not even get to speak. It is however important to make a well stated public comment. There will be a long time to do this after July 23rd. More meetings and a public comment period.
    Yikes, 10AM?? well lemme know how I can help. I need someone to hold my hand but I'm down to help

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation: TahoeBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    5,753
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Whoa, what's with the sarcasm?
    Just have heard that tired old argument many times, sorry.

    Have talked to several folks who work with land managers who work on access and they have to back pedal trying to explain when asked what the hell is going on with the racing on trails I just donít buy the argument. We see it unfolding negatively right here in this thread.

    Itís just not illegal trailís being posted to Strava, itís the legal ones, haters presenting RACING data to land managers. Itís more than just showing the number of riders on the trail, itís the perceived recklessness of the riding/racing thatís going on. Even though you might be riding responsibly with good lines of sight and able to stop easily for fellow trail users, it looks bad on paper.
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  64. #64
    I'm a "she".
    Reputation: mudworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    934
    Internet is to blame.

    A few very simple changes Strava can make to avoid this -- the visibility and encouragement of illegal trail use -- and I'm surprised that it's not already implemented:
    1) There should be a special segment flagging for illegal access
    2) Once a segment has been flagged due to illegal access and confirmed, any future attempt to create a segment on the same path/trail should be disallowed
    3) Any track that includes a flagged segment should automatically be made private
    Inch by inch, I will get there...
    ride reports | tracks | photos
    Green Chiclets are my favorite candy.

  65. #65
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    9,019
    Marin seems hopeless. Clearly, the anti crowd (including the supes and L. Dahl) are exploiting the situation to justify excluding cyclists. The only real solution is for somebody to create a PAC, raise money and fund campaigns against the worst supes (Susan Adams would fit that bill) next time. Money talks.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  66. #66
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,773

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    Don't try it.. Resisting is a felony and believe me, the rangers are quite adept at going cop on you. They love a good chase.
    And radios are faster than bikes.
    Banned for showing Boobies.

  67. #67
    Like a boss.
    Reputation: Piranha426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    661
    Those of us that make a habit of attending these meetings also make a habit of Mexican food + beers afterwards. Please, show up. Come on, you're an adult, you can make it happen!
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  68. #68
    Like a boss.
    Reputation: Piranha426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    661
    That's what Access 4 Bikes does. They're the type of non-profit that can contribute to political candidates. Vernonator, where are you?
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  69. #69
    mtb'er
    Reputation: Empty_Beer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    ...this is the same logic being used in the stop sign example above. When's the last time you saw a stop sign removed?
    FWIW, Sacramento Regional Parks recently removed 11 stop signs on the American River Bike Trail because bikes weren't stopping!

    http://www.regionalparks.saccounty.n...ng%20April.pdf

    Of course they have also stepped up enforcing speed limits with LiDAR

    Slow down or risk ticket, Sacramento County tells parkway bicyclists - Cycling - The Sacramento Bee

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    Those of us that make a habit of attending these meetings also make a habit of Mexican food + beers afterwards. Please, show up. Come on, you're an adult, you can make it happen!
    You CAN ! Make it happen show up participate or go back to your Bike Ghettos at Tamarancho and China Camp!

  71. #71
    Type A
    Reputation: Overhillthruthewoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    416
    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    FWIW, Sacramento Regional Parks recently removed 11 stop signs on the American River Bike Trail because bikes weren't stopping!

    http://www.regionalparks.saccounty.n...ng%20April.pdf

    Of course they have also stepped up enforcing speed limits with LiDAR

    Slow down or risk ticket, Sacramento County tells parkway bicyclists - Cycling - The Sacramento Bee
    FWIW? Not much, actually posting this is probably more detrimental,since it's an isolated event and not what is happening in the majority of instances. Strava is and will continue to be used as a tool of land managers to restrict access not increase it. By posting this atypical response it just gives more reason to people to not change their habits.

  72. #72
    more skier than biker
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,165

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Quote Originally Posted by mudworm View Post
    Internet is to blame.

    A few very simple changes Strava can make to avoid this -- the visibility and encouragement of illegal trail use -- and I'm surprised that it's not already implemented:
    1) There should be a special segment flagging for illegal access
    2) Once a segment has been flagged due to illegal access and confirmed, any future attempt to create a segment on the same path/trail should be disallowed
    3) Any track that includes a flagged segment should automatically be made private
    You can indeed flag segments as "illegal" in Strava.
    Kappius Components Ambassador - Ping me a note for a discount code

  73. #73
    I like mtn biking, too
    Reputation: shredchic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,090
    Wow, just watched the clip. Posting controversial, illegal trail use on Strava is a huge mistake. I can understand her ire at the illegal trail use, but then she continues to rag on those evil derelict, um, bike commuters?! How about show the same ire against cars buzzing past road cyclists at dangerous proximity, or razz on drivers who hit cyclists? This is a very clear, very comprehensive, and very ignorant anti-bike agenda, period. She needs to be a cyclist for longer than 2 weeks in order to form an educated opinion. I recommend this person go ride her hybrid on the road - then maybe she'll understand why we prefer trails and bike paths!!
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. Weíre just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
    ~Fairfaxian

  74. #74
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,618
    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Wow, just watched the clip. Posting controversial, illegal trail use on Strava is a huge mistake. I can understand her ire at the illegal trail use, but then she continues to rag on those evil derelict, um, bike commuters?! How about show the same ire against cars buzzing past road cyclists at dangerous proximity, or razz on drivers who hit cyclists? This is a very clear, very comprehensive, and very ignorant anti-bike agenda, period. She needs to be a cyclist for longer than 2 weeks in order to form an educated opinion. I recommend this person go ride her hybrid on the road - then maybe she'll understand why we prefer trails and bike paths!!
    what really gets me angry is Dahl quotes another recent injury accident caused by a MTB'r that came from nothing more than a blog post by an anti-bike group as a reason for all this crazy enforcement talk....

    to date no one, including rangers, have heard anything about it.
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,536
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    what really gets me angry is Dahl quotes another recent injury accident caused by a MTB'r that came from nothing more than a blog post by an anti-bike group as a reason for all this crazy enforcement talk....

    to date no one, including rangers, have heard anything about it.
    Please, everyone knows the lies go on the front page and the retractions go in the back.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  76. #76
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    what really gets me angry is Dahl quotes another recent injury accident caused by a MTB'r that came from nothing more than a blog post by an anti-bike group as a reason for all this crazy enforcement talk....

    to date no one, including rangers, have heard anything about it.
    Linda Dahl clearly has a strange way of building consensus.

    "Linda Dahl of Novato, Marin County's new parks chief, is a skilled consensus-builder" (Marin snapshot: Marin's new parks chief ready to tackle big issues - Marin Independent Journal)

    Or she is not as skilled as she thinks she is and is simply another frumpy fearful bureaucrat that is out of touch with many of her constituents (folks who enjoy riding bikes in the dirt). My bet is that this self-professed hiker is the latter.

  77. #77
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,732
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    'Volunteer' trails sound better...not illegal, not unsanctioned, not poaching - all 100% positive 'Volunteer' trails.

    keep hammering that home when some opposition brings up 'illegal'.

    my .02
    I prefer the term "currently unauthorized trails." It speaks the inevitability of change. If this is repeated often enough, with certainty, the frailty of the exclusionary disposition and its gradual dissipation, becomes more and more apparent.
    I don't rattle.

  78. #78
    PMarsh Thumbs Up!
    Reputation: StuLax18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,289
    I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I love how she fondles that pen the whole time she's talking.
    2011 Giant Glory 01
    2013 Pivot Firebird
    2004 Turner Rail - Stoled

  79. #79
    Axe
    Axe is offline
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: Axe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by weenis View Post
    Be careful of what you post. This is a public site which may be used to fuel their argument. Calling the Parks director a b**** isn't going to help anybody.
    Quoting JP?

    And how should we call her?

  80. #80
    Axe
    Axe is offline
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: Axe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,168
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    to date no one, including rangers, have heard anything about it.
    Most likely, it did not happen at all. And if something happened it was embellished and distorted.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24
    ^ I couldn't find it in the news

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation: X-FXR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    699
    Kinda ironic in a State that has itís panties in a wad about going greenÖ.to limit cyclistsí is understandable. We live in a state that is so fubard up with bureaucrats and politics that is just pathetic. This State continues to make it less and less desirable to live here. Open up public lands for all recreational groups or close them. The amount of data they get from Strava pales in comparison to the riders who do play by the rules, so the few then will dictate how the majority will able to utilized open space.
    Marin where mt biking arguably startedÖ.
    Quote Originally Posted by k1creeker View Post
    "yeah, she's fat, but you'd take her for a ride."

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    55

    Recall Supervisor Adams

    Adams is the person that starts talking around the 16 minute mark.

    Some of you may know that susan adams is not too popular in her district (San Rafael - district 1).
    There is a movement to have a special election to get her recalled.
    There is a group collecting signatures to get the election held, i am not sure how many are needed or what the collection status is.
    But if you are in district 1 (or know someone who is), and sick of her bs, they are looking for signatures.
    In my interactions with her she is very anti bikes on a trail, her aide is fairly vocal bike hater as well.

    You can view the website here for more info on how to sign the petition to recall adams:
    Recall Supervisor Susan Adams
    Last edited by dlazz; 07-11-2013 at 03:13 PM. Reason: typo

  84. #84
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    9,019
    Quote Originally Posted by dlazz View Post
    Adams is the person that starts talking around the 16 minute mark.

    Some of you may know that susan adams is not too popular in her district (San Rafael - district 1).
    There is a movement to have a special election to get her recalled.
    There is a group collecting signatures to get the election held, i am not sure how many are needed or what the collection status is.
    But if you are in district 1 (or no someone who is), and sick of her bs, they are looking for signatures.
    In my interactions with her she is very anti bikes on a trail, her aide is fairly vocal bike hater as well.

    You can view the website here for more info on how to sign the petition to recall adams:
    Recall Supervisor Susan Adams
    Not a resident, but that's a great start to being heard.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  85. #85
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    On thing we can count on is, haters gone hate.
    Yep, this is the crux of the issue right here. Just when I think the hipocrisy can't get any worse, it never fails to exceed my worst expectations. I guess I'm just sick and tired of these zealots holding up every isolated incident and using it to brand us all as criminals. Want to lump us in as one big group? Take the actions of one small subset and apply generally? OK, fine Ms. Dahl: we ARE one big group. We vote, we pay taxes, and we are your constituents/employers. Deal with it.

    While you and I might disagree about the role Strava plays in this, my basic point is that there is very little point in distancing ourselves (meaning MTBrs who would self-identify as rational, responsible adults) from the evidence of trail poachers, simply because the haters are always going to find some way to distort whatever incident or info may be out there, regardless of its accuracy. We are losing the PR war & it's time to change the message. At one point we might have gained something by taking the high moral ground in arguing that these conflicts are caused by a fringe minority of irresponsible lawbreakers, but these recent events suggest that (in Marin county at least) that time may have passed. Better to acknowledge that this behavior is widespread, and efforts to regulate that behavior are either futile or at best extremely difficult/time consuming/expensive (hello! ranger overtime!) to implement: let's work together to find other, more direct ways to alleviate conflict. Take the Strava info (what sorts of trails are favored? when? how many users?) and funnel that into a sensible & sustainable trail management strategy for the whole system.

    I'll even bring my own shovel.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  86. #86
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,618
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Yep, this is the crux of the issue right here. Just when I think the hypocrisy can't get any worse, it never fails to exceed my worst expectations. I guess I'm just sick and tired of these zealots holding up every isolated incident and using it to brand us all as criminals....
    Those zealots are the 'vocal minority'. The 'vocal minority' are used to getting their way....that's starting to change.

    Everyone hates the 'vocal minority', but public officials are obligated to address them as they would address a level headed intelligent person.

    Solution is to greatly outnumber the lunatics at these meetings and kill'em with common sense and kindness.

    Please remember that the census taken shows that equestrians are only 0.4% of the trail users in Marin. MTB'rs are 20%+.

    Click Here for Forum Rules

  87. #87
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Please all you Stravatards please chime in and defend your selfishness now.
    Yes, because nobody ever poached a trail, rode above speed limits, blew through stop signs, acted recklessly, acted like a d0uche bag, or broke any other laws before Strava.

    Blaming Strava for people doing all the above is silly.
    Sure, maybe there are a few more infractions because of Strava however there would be no infractions if there weren't bicycles. So let's outlaw bicycles in California.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  88. #88
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
    Reputation: CHUM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    8,618
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Yes, because nobody ever poached a trail, rode above speed limits, blew through stop signs, acted recklessly, acted like a d0uche bag, or broke any other laws before Strava.

    Blaming Strava for people doing all the above is silly.
    Sure, maybe there are a few more infractions because of Strava however there would be no infractions if there weren't bicycles. So let's outlaw bicycles in California.


    you missed the point. It would be like posting a note on the stop sign you ran, along with everyone else that ran it so there would be an accurate and permanent record to prove it was not being stopped at.

    Poach away if you must - but please try not to leave a detailed and accurate web searchable account of it for everyone on the planet to see...

    not really that smart dontcha thunk
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  89. #89
    Medium?
    Reputation: Fast Eddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,723
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    I prefer the term "currently unauthorized trails."
    Perfect.

  90. #90
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post


    you missed the point. It would be like posting a note on the stop sign you ran, along with everyone else that ran it so there would be an accurate and permanent record to prove it was not being stopped at.

    Poach away if you must - but please try not to leave a detailed and accurate web searchable account of it for everyone on the planet to see...

    not really that smart dontcha thunk
    No, I get that. I even said in an earlier post that if you must poach trails and break laws, don't post them to Strava (or anywhere else for that matter).

    But people blame Strava for creating d0uchebaggery and that is the impression I got from the post I was replying to. Strava is no more to blame for that than bicycles.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  91. #91
    Type A
    Reputation: Overhillthruthewoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    416
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, I get that. I even said in an earlier post that if you must poach trails and break laws, don't post them to Strava (or anywhere else for that matter).

    But people blame Strava for creating d0uchebaggery and that is the impression I got from the post I was replying to. Strava is no more to blame for that than bicycles.
    You must be of the opinion that all of a human's actions are solely a function of nature and that environmental influences are nonexistent. Strava creates an instant competitive environment that was much less likely to occur prior to its creation, and like it or not, it does impact people's behavior. Just go watch the impacts of peer pressure on a teenager and tell me that outside forces don't affect their behavior.

  92. #92
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    You must be of the opinion that all of a human's actions are solely a function of nature and that environmental influences are nonexistent. Strava creates an instant competitive environment that was much less likely to occur prior to its creation, and like it or not, it does impact people's behavior. Just go watch the impacts of peer pressure on a teenager and tell me that outside forces don't affect their behavior.
    No, I acknowledge that there are influences on on our actions.
    Strava may be a tool that creates a competitive environment but many people can and do use Strava responsibly.

    Just like bikes also are a tool that create competition. They can be abused or used responsibly.

    Remove Strava and you will still have irresponsible cyclists.
    Remove bikes and will only have irresponsible pedestrians.

    If you start banning things just because a few people use it irresponsibly than don't cry when something you use gets taken away because of some irresponsible d0uchebag.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  93. #93
    Type A
    Reputation: Overhillthruthewoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    416
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    No, I acknowledge that there are influences on on our actions.
    Strava may be a tool that creates a competitive environment but many people can and do use Strava responsibly.

    Just like bikes also are a tool that create competition. They can be abused or used responsibly.

    Remove Strava and you will still have irresponsible cyclists.
    Remove bikes and will only have irresponsible pedestrians.

    If you start banning things just because a few people use it irresponsibly than don't cry when something you use gets taken away because of some irresponsible d0uchebag.

    We're on the same page. I'm not for banning strava, but with it should come a bit of responsibility.

  94. #94
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    169
    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    If you start banning things just because a few people use it irresponsibly than don't cry when something you use gets taken away because of some irresponsible d0uchebag.
    I can't say this is about banning Strava, but you are correct about being a responsible Stravatard and mt. biker.

    5 Simple Strava Rules:

    1. If you ride where you aren't supposed to, make the ride private... leave only tire tracks, not gps tracks.
    2. If you ride somebody's secret trail, make the ride private... don't spoil someone's hard work by making it easy for a land manager to find via a computer
    3. Do not create downhill segments on multi-use trails... it can encourage more d0uchbaggery than already exists
    4. Do not pursue KOMs or PRs on downhill segments that are on multi-use trails, unless it is night time.
    5. Have at it with uphill segments! Isn't that where King of The Mountain comes from? Fastest climber?

  95. #95
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    26,411
    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    You must be of the opinion that all of a human's actions are solely a function of nature and that environmental influences are nonexistent. Strava creates an instant competitive environment that was much less likely to occur prior to its creation, and like it or not, it does impact people's behavior. Just go watch the impacts of peer pressure on a teenager and tell me that outside forces don't affect their behavior.
    As a whole and anonymously, people understand the need for laws, safety nets, protections, and so on. Individually, people are douchb*gs and won't follow said laws and will treat each other like crap and many of those protections that are voted for are to protect us from our stupid selves.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,259
    Wow - just watched some of that meeting; I try to avoid the news so I don't have to listen to politicians spew nonsense, and that meeting reminds me why I dislike politicians so much - so much doublespeak, circular argument, BS and hot air being spewed out - it actually did not sound like coherent English - highlight was when that really ignorant lady with the pen kept blabbering on about her "decision matrix" and how she would be very surprised if that did not directly result in "bike free zones". That's like saying that I would be very surprised if an "unprotected coitus matrix" did not lead to conception.

  97. #97
    Rogue Exterminator
    Reputation: kjlued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    As a whole and anonymously, people understand the need for laws, safety nets, protections, and so on. Individually, people are douchb*gs and won't follow said laws and will treat each other like crap and many of those protections that are voted for are to protect us from our stupid selves.
    Yes but also you can make laws too strict and everyone will no longer care enough to follow them.


    For instance what do you think would happen if they lowered the speed limits on all interstates to 20 mph? Currently most people obey the speed limits or break them up to 10 mph with the occasional speed demon. Drop the limits to 20 mph and I guarantee everyone will ignore them and most will probably quadruple it. California has made it almost impossible to ride legally. If you pick a legal trail, you have to worry about getting a ticket when you break 15 mph on a down hill so you are better off poaching a trail where you are less likely to get caught.

    We currently don't have any of these problems in Western NC.
    Almost all our trails are multi use, multi directional, and there are no speed limits on any of them. The trails are busy, in fact NC state and national forests are the busiest in the country. I am not going to say we do not have user conflicts because we occasionally do but it doesn't seem to be anywhere near what Cali has and people here are generally understanding and accepting when it does happen.

    So why is this when we don't have any laws forcing us to behave?
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  98. #98
    Dirty by Nature
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,301
    ^^ Marin is a bit of an anomaly. There are very few problems between user groups in most of the state--even in Socal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    I prefer the term "currently unauthorized trails." It speaks the inevitability of change.
    I like that approach, and it has actually proven true for quite a few previously "illegal" trails in Orange County. I usually use the term poach around fellow riders, but I try to code-switch to "currently undocumented" around civilians.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Biking Brazilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,681

    Use Strava? Please watch this:

    Typical slippery slope logical fallacy used by people desperate to make their weak argument stick.

    "I was going 15MPH and almost got killed."

    Did you? Really?

    Of course, the next step is that these murderers-on-bikes who dared to pass you will become Nazi baby/kitten killers, so something must be done now, based on my very limited data sample.

    What's worse is that this naysayer has the power to effect law.

  100. #100
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,732
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    "currently undocumented"
    Yes!

    We can evolve an approach to the current state of things. We are in a much better position than we were 10 years ago. We are more numerous, more central to the community, represent a much wider range in age and income, own businesses, houses, lead in the community. On the other hand equestrians are a dwindling user group and their influence is, well....dying off. The Linda Dahls of this world are becoming fewer the politics which support such people are becoming marginalized. Their language and attitude tends to be desperate and poorly founded.

    We can make this case and do it with confidence. Part of being effective is creating a terminology and a series of arguments based upon modern data, evolving attitudes, and outlining the failure of ill-advised restrictions as solutions.
    I don't rattle.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Official Watch thread - What Watch do you wear?
    By nando87 in forum Off Camber (off topic)
    Replies: 163
    Last Post: 08-17-2016, 08:07 AM
  2. GPS Watch, which one for me?
    By Nail Every Trail in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-12-2012, 04:35 PM
  3. If you take LSD- don't watch this!
    By pmarshall in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-01-2011, 12:44 AM
  4. Something to watch for on the EG
    By craigstr in forum Titus
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-22-2011, 12:23 PM
  5. HRM Watch
    By Paladin54 in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-19-2011, 09:03 AM

Members who have read this thread: 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •