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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post

    However, riding on the road with those big tires and low tubeless pressures is definitely not as enjoyable as before, and I am often now driving to the same trail that I used to ride on the road to.
    Just pump them up before you head out, deflate / tire pressure gauge once you get there and pump back up on your way home.

  2. #202
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    it's all pretty laughable that a buncha grown men get on da forums to talk about expensive bikes. just to even have enough social mobility to even own these bikes is a small and privileged demographic.

    so what about fully kitted lycra weekend warriors on multiuse paths on weekends weaving dangerously in and out of traffic/pedestrians? funny not funny?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post
    I rode a 2006 Stumpjumper with 130mm front and 120mm rear travel for almost 9 years. My most frequent ride was 10 miles on the road (slightly uphill) to the trail, then 5 miles on hilly dirt, then 10 miles back home on the road.

    I just bought a 2019 Stumpjumper with 150mm travel front/rear, and 2.6" wide tires. This bike is awesome. It's a ton of fun on the trails. As more-of-a-bike-than-needed for local trails such as Skeggs and Dirt Alpine, it's super fun. It makes all of my trail rides more fun, including Demo.

    However, riding on the road with those big tires and low tubeless pressures is definitely not as enjoyable as before, and I am often now driving to the same trail that I used to ride on the road to.

    I'm very happy with the new bike, but it's led to a change in my riding habits.
    does it make you a candidate for an e-bike? really startin to see a lot of them.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Just pump them up before you head out, deflate / tire pressure gauge once you get there and pump back up on your way home.
    A tire pump or small pressure gauge with bleed valve that automatically closes at a preset pressure would be awesome!

    Like those tire deflators for wheeling. Many of those designs rely on spring pressure and probably aren't accurate enough for bike tires. I should borrow one from my BIL and test on my one bike that has a schraeder tube

  5. #205
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    Whachu talking about Willis?!?

    no freakin way





    Quote Originally Posted by nativeson View Post
    does it make you a candidate for an e-bike? really startin to see a lot of them.
    Last edited by Dopaminer_09; 07-09-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  6. #206
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    This was suggested to me by the guy who sold me the bike too.

    Yup, I'm going to try this!

    Quote Originally Posted by cassieno View Post
    Just pump them up before you head out, deflate / tire pressure gauge once you get there and pump back up on your way home.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post
    This was suggested to me by the guy who sold me the bike too.

    Yup, I'm going to try this!
    That is too much work. Just get some faster rolling tires.

  8. #208
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    I don't buy this theory that you need a short or no travel bike to build skills. Its just not true. If inclined you will build skill no matter what the bike.

    However. If I look at all the mountain bikers I know. The most technically skilled individuals are those with bigger bikes. Those that also have Rigs as well. The least technically skilled guys are the guys that stick to easier tracks on lower travel bikes.


    Sure there is exceptions too those rules and i do know some technically skilled guys on low travel bikes. But that they are skilled at medium to easy tracks. They don't ride the really hard stuff. Don't even consider riding it. To be fair if they tried it would be too hard for their bikes and wouldnt be fun.

    The guys riding the gnar on bigger bikes build skill beyond what the lower travel easier track skilled rider can achieve. They also build an eyethometer for what is possible at higher speeds and gnarlier terrain. You can then take that eyethometer and apply it to smaller travel bikes and hit bigger stuff than you thought possible without the big bike eyethometer.

  9. #209
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    ^^ Causation-Correlation Fallacy

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    ^^ Causation-Correlation Fallacy
    Yeah.

    If his only measure of skill is ďgoing bigĒ, no shit, people who do that more often are going to a) be better at it and b) prefer a certain kind of bike.





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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yeah.

    If his only measure of skill is ďgoing bigĒ, no shit, people who do that more often are going to a) be better at it and b) prefer a certain kind of bike.





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    No. I'm talking all forms of riding skill. The most skillfull guys are the guys that take it to a more technical level. Get them on easy tracks and they roost. Those guys 9 times out of 10 are the bigger bike riding guys, not the short travel pedallers.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    No. I'm talking all forms of riding skill. The most skillfull guys are the guys that take it to a more technical level. Get them on easy tracks and they roost. Those guys 9 times out of 10 are the bigger bike riding guys, not the short travel pedallers.
    Agree!!
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  13. #213
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    Too much bike VS Too little bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    No. I'm talking all forms of riding skill. The most skillfull guys are the guys that take it to a more technical level. Get them on easy tracks and they roost. Those guys 9 times out of 10 are the bigger bike riding guys, not the short travel pedallers.
    Ha. Ok.

    Letís put those guys on an XC bike with Thunder Burts front and rear and see if they can keep up with a no-name XC pro.

    Of course, in the mind of many NorCal denizens, Toadís is a double-black death trap. Others view it as an XC trail.


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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Ha. Ok.

    Letís put those guys on an XC bike with Thunder Burts front and rear and see if they can keep up with a no-name XC pro.

    Of course, in the mind of many NorCal denizens, Toadís is a double-black death trap. Others view it as an XC trail.


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    Give the big bike shredder a day to get used to the little bike and i bet he/she holds their own quite well. In comparison, give the no-name XC pro (Not nino) a big bike and a day to get used to it, and watch them squid it up on legit DH trails. Its much easier to dumb down the bike and trails, than it is to step up a whole nother level even with a bigger bike IME.

    Unless you are just talking about the fitness aspect of the XC?

  15. #215
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    I'll take this out this morning and see. I think it's a gravel bike that can hit the pump track on the way home.Too much bike  VS   Too little bike.-img_9390.jpg
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    I don't buy this theory that you need a short or no travel bike to build skills. Its just not true. If inclined you will build skill no matter what the bike.

    However. If I look at all the mountain bikers I know. The most technically skilled individuals are those with bigger bikes. Those that also have Rigs as well. The least technically skilled guys are the guys that stick to easier tracks on lower travel bikes.


    Sure there is exceptions too those rules and i do know some technically skilled guys on low travel bikes. But that they are skilled at medium to easy tracks. They don't ride the really hard stuff. Don't even consider riding it. To be fair if they tried it would be too hard for their bikes and wouldnt be fun.

    The guys riding the gnar on bigger bikes build skill beyond what the lower travel easier track skilled rider can achieve. They also build an eyethometer for what is possible at higher speeds and gnarlier terrain. You can then take that eyethometer and apply it to smaller travel bikes and hit bigger stuff than you thought possible without the big bike eyethometer.
    I actually prescribe to the opposite of that... I think beginners would do good to start out on a full suspension rig with quite some travel as you are allowed to make mistakes with little consequence... You learn what is possible and what isnt and how the bike behaves in different situations without the constant fear of dying... After that, get on a small bike to work on decision making. Then back on the big bike to work on response time so that you can make those decisions faster.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Give the big bike shredder a day to get used to the little bike and i bet he/she holds their own quite well. In comparison, give the no-name XC pro (Not nino) a big bike and a day to get used to it, and watch them squid it up on legit DH trails.

    Unless you are just talking about the fitness aspect of the XC?
    No, not just talking about fitness. But handling a bike at speed while completely blown is a skill, and one Iím guessing many people have very little experience with.

    Good examples of this, that are relevant to me, are some of the trails used in the various iterations of both the Moab Enduro and Moab Rocks Stage race over the years. Particularly some segments down Mag 7, which is a relatively moderate trail. The top 10 for many segments is populated with many people racing Moab Rocks. Same with the portion of Porcupine that Moab Rocks uses. 7 of the top 10 on one of them.

    Point being, taking a five minute break at the top of a leisurely climb or jumping out of the cab of your broís Tacoma is not the same as hitting a climb so hard you canít read trail signs, turning left and then trying to go downhill as fast as you can. Hint: Your skills will be dramatically compromised if you do that.


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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpercussive View Post
    I actually prescribe to the opposite of that... I think beginners would do good to start out on a full suspension rig with quite some travel as you are allowed to make mistakes with little consequence... You learn what is possible and what isnt and how the bike behaves in different situations without the constant fear of dying... After that, get on a small bike to work on decision making. Then back on the big bike to work on response time so that you can make those decisions faster.
    I agree with this. The problem is a hardtail is typically cheaper. A beginner doesn't know how much they want to get into the sport yet so starts with a hardtail. But if money and maintenance were equal a full suspension rig would be the way to go for beginners because they are so much more forgiving.

    It's the N+1 argument . Although, if you can only have one bike, I would prefer to be a little overbiked (and I am). If you cared that much you could always pump up your shocks and run stiffer springs / narrower tires to try and take away some of the easiness that a bigger bike will naturally have.
    Last edited by cassieno; 07-10-2018 at 09:58 AM. Reason: Used the wrong word

  19. #219
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    I can think of two hardtails that go along way in building skills, a dirt jumper and a trials bike. On the other end of the spectrum a MX bike. I think if you look at the background of the best DH/Enduro riders in the world they have spent significant time on some combination of these.

    Of all the variables, personality is the key variable that determines whether a person will excel in technical mountain biking. I know guys that have been riding for 20 years and haven't progressed past year one. I know kids that have been riding for a couple years and are pretty awesome. Buying a bigger bike doesn't get rid of the fear of letting go of the brakes.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I can think of two hardtails that go along way in building skills, a dirt jumper and a trials bike. On the other end of the spectrum a MX bike. I think if you look at the background of the best DH/Enduro riders in the world they have spent significant time on some combination of these.

    Of all the variables, personality is the key variable that determines whether a person will excel in technical mountain biking. I know guys that have been riding for 20 years and haven't progressed past year one. I know kids that have been riding for a couple years and are pretty awesome. Buying a bigger bike doesn't get rid of the fear of letting go of the brakes.
    Or the fear of getting broken
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmon4day View Post
    Or the fear of getting broken
    That's a good fear to have.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I can think of two hardtails that go along way in building skills, a dirt jumper and a trials bike. On the other end of the spectrum a MX bike. I think if you look at the background of the best DH/Enduro riders in the world they have spent significant time on some combination of these.

    Of all the variables, personality is the key variable that determines whether a person will excel in technical mountain biking. I know guys that have been riding for 20 years and haven't progressed past year one. I know kids that have been riding for a couple years and are pretty awesome. Buying a bigger bike doesn't get rid of the fear of letting go of the brakes.
    Very, very good insight once again.

    A lot greatest bike handlers today were raised on full suspension bikes. And dirt jumpers for connecting with the air and the ground.
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  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    No, not just talking about fitness. But handling a bike at speed while completely blown is a skill, and one Iím guessing many people have very little experience with.

    Good examples of this, that are relevant to me, are some of the trails used in the various iterations of both the Moab Enduro and Moab Rocks Stage race over the years. Particularly some segments down Mag 7, which is a relatively moderate trail. The top 10 for many segments is populated with many people racing Moab Rocks. Same with the portion of Porcupine that Moab Rocks uses. 7 of the top 10 on one of them.

    Point being, taking a five minute break at the top of a leisurely climb or jumping out of the cab of your broís Tacoma is not the same as hitting a climb so hard you canít read trail signs, turning left and then trying to go downhill as fast as you can. Hint: Your skills will be dramatically compromised if you do that.


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    Yep. And don't forget doing it lap after lap for about an hour and a half. Oxygen debt does funny things to one's judgement.

    Was all clearly evident watching the XCO from Val De Sole [available on Redbulltv]. Came away astounded by how great a rider Jolanda Neff is.
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  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Pride View Post
    Disc brakes! Dropper posts! Actually adjustable suspension! Frames that don't break on 3 foot drops! what a world we live in

    Brakes are huge. As for suspension, someone in the 27.5" forum said that cheap coil and cheap air are exactly the same. No. You can use all of the fork with air, you cannot with cheap coil unless you are doing big jumps. And you don't really want to do that anyway with that level of bike so that doesn't even really count. But if your tires are wide enough suspension isn't a huge deal either way, the right tire can provide plenty of suspension. I probably do need a dropper post but I'll wait for now. I don't think I'm underbiked as long as the brakes and tires are up to the job. I don't go fast downhill so no need for anything over 120mm up front. Can I admit something about drops? I'm scared of them. I'll do jumps but there is something about drops I just don't like. A few months ago I went down about a 5 foot decline that was very grassy, it had a divot at the bottom I didn't see and it was OTB in slow-motion. I always feel that will happen with drops. I know I need to get over that later.
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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Brakes are huge. As for suspension, someone in the 27.5" forum said that cheap coil and cheap air are exactly the same. No. You can use all of the fork with air, you cannot with cheap coil unless you are doing big jumps. And you don't really want to do that anyway with that level of bike so that doesn't even really count. But if your tires are wide enough suspension isn't a huge deal either way, the right tire can provide plenty of suspension. I probably do need a dropper post but I'll wait for now. I don't think I'm underbiked as long as the brakes and tires are up to the job. I don't go fast downhill so no need for anything over 120mm up front. Can I admit something about drops? I'm scared of them. I'll do jumps but there is something about drops I just don't like. A few months ago I went down about a 5 foot decline that was very grassy, it had a divot at the bottom I didn't see and it was OTB in slow-motion. I always feel that will happen with drops. I know I need to get over that later.
    For drops, it's a very very good idea to take bike lessons. This can be done with videos, a friend or best of all, a coach.

    It's a skill that will come in handy for the rest of your life since drops come even if you seek them out. If you roam the land and explore the best trails around, they're there. And they can go from 'feared' to sought out features.

    I've met many people who 'will never do drops'. But most will do a one-footer, but not three. It's just hard to tell what's coming.

    It's a fairly simple thing but there is a very important technique to it. And no it's not jumping. My wife took bike lessons 5+ years ago and as I saw them go through it... I said, "fack, I've been doing it so wrong."

    Then there's variables. Size of drop, your speed, run-out, landing, lip quality... etc.

    Then there's the double jump. Can folks do a 1-foot gap jump? 5?
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    Double scares me. And i regretted all those times that i made the other end. One thing that cross my mind, i m only as good as i was as a kid, may be stronger, may be faster, but i will never be one of those kids that clear the big doubles at Carlmont. Too much on the line these days to grt injured. Too much bike or too little bike doesnt change that.

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  28. #228
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    Watch ^^, then watch Amaury Pierron....


  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Point being, taking a five minute break at the top of a leisurely climb or jumping out of the cab of your broís Tacoma is not the same as hitting a climb so hard you canít read trail signs, turning left and then trying to go downhill as fast as you can. Hint: Your skills will be dramatically compromised if you do that.


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    The reality of this is yes and no. What you said is true but it is also a learned skill that can be trained for. One that the person on the big bike is likely not training for. It's really just the inverse of taking the no name XC pro and putting them on the steep, chunky, big hit line on a big bike.

    That said if they are serious about stage racing the ability to perform under those conditions might be surprising.

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  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post

    Point being, taking a five minute break at the top of a leisurely climb or jumping out of the cab of your broís Tacoma is not the same as hitting a climb so hard you canít read trail signs, turning left and then trying to go downhill as fast as you can. Hint: Your skills will be dramatically compromised if you do that.


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    Man you are one confused dude. So rude too with the petty insults.

    What you're talking about is fatigue and endurance and fighting through the challenges.
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  31. #231
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    Too much bike VS Too little bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Man you are one confused dude. So rude too with the petty insults.

    What you're talking about is fatigue and endurance and fighting through the challenges.
    Please, FC, tell me what phrase or word was used in the post you quoted that could be viewed as an insult? If you view the phrase "leisurely climb" as an insult, I'm sorry. Everyone climbs at a leisurely pace, and I wasn't attempting to say that you, me or anyone else is slow; I'm talking about someone's own relative effort. If it was the "hopping out of your bro's Tacoma", well, I think most people will agree that doing that does not result in hitting max heart rate.

    And, fatigue isn't what I'm talking about. Nor is it endurance. I'm not tired nor am I at the end of my rope at the end of a single short, near-max climb. But, physically, I am less able to handle my bike directly after that effort than if I was fresh. Practicing riding in that state helps one get better at it; it develops a skill. Just like riding a big bike at NorthStar or hitting the local pump track.
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  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    The reality of this is yes and no. What you said is true but it is also a learned skill that can be trained for. One that the person on the big bike is likely not training for. It's really just the inverse of taking the no name XC pro and putting them on the steep, chunky, big hit line on a big bike.

    That said if they are serious about stage racing the ability to perform under those conditions might be surprising.

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    It's already been done with a fair degree of success. Lets see... Geoff Kabush @ the Transcascadia. Adam Craig and Carl Decker @ Downieville EVERY year. I could go on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    It's already been done with a fair degree of success. Lets see... Geoff Kabush @ the Transcascadia. Adam Craig and Carl Decker @ Downieville EVERY year. I could go on.
    Please do, I'm still waiting for you to name a proper steep, chunky, big hit line.

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  34. #234
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    You CAN have it ALL

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Man you are one confused dude. So rude too with the petty insults.

    What you're talking about is fatigue and endurance and fighting through the challenges.
    Really? I took the comment as a light hearted observation of the difference between anecdotal and empirical evidence [strava times on really challenging terrain, during a race].

    Maybe this will help settle the debate...........Too much bike  VS   Too little bike.-img_3058.jpg

    Dual suspension! Coil shock! Too much [32.5 lbs], and Too Little [unless you're a dwarf busboy]! Just add a dropper. You can have it all!
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  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Please do, I'm still waiting for you to name a proper steep, chunky, big hit line.

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    Trying to move the goal posts? ; ) Every ridden the stages @ Trans Cascadia, B. Lopes wasn't bored by the terrain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Trying to move the goal posts? ; ) Every ridden the stages @ Trans Cascadia, B. Lopes wasn't bored by the terrain.
    Moving the goal post would imply that that criteria was not in the post you originally quoted... So no, I'm happy to leave them where I set them.

    Lopes wouldn't be bored on a paved bike path as long as he had an audience.

    Just to help you out since reading seems to be an issue.

  37. #237
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    all ridin is rad. just to be able to ride wheels, pump, compress, adjust ur body is fun. to have any ability to feel da sense of weightlessness is comparable in all gravity defyin sport. i have way too many bikes i don't ride enough, but I still come and kook/nerd out on da forums to peep da new new. ridin local stuff on all different types of bikes is fun, but it's nice to have a long(erish) travel bike for da Sierra or burlier rocky steep spots.

    i love hardtails and all da newer hardtail geos, still love ridin a hardtail on da localish trails (any recommendations?). i really like da direction newer bikes are goin, never thought a 29er could really feel like a slack bmx cruzer w/5.5" of travel.

    gettin older, not concerned about goin big breh, just wanna roll. pushin myself's coo but still wanna roll da next day. gonna go roll up to sc n my brehcoma wearin n ridin all my stuff I mostly copped off da intanet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    It's already been done with a fair degree of success. Lets see... Geoff Kabush @ the Transcascadia. Adam Craig and Carl Decker @ Downieville EVERY year. I could go on.
    Transcascadia and Downieville are similar to the BC bike race in that it is a long XC race that is more gravity oriented than normal. However, you make up time on the climbs, not on the descents and the choice of bikes, clothing/armor, and who the top riders are prove that.

    near pro level cardio is something that anyone with the will can obtain in a matter of months. near pro level bike handling is something that takes years and courage. near pro level line choice is also something that takes years and courage.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Transcascadia and Downieville are similar to the BC bike race in that it is a long XC race that is more gravity oriented than normal. However, you make up time on the climbs, not on the descents and the choice of bikes, clothing/armor, and who the top riders are prove that.

    near pro level cardio is something that anyone with the will can obtain in a matter of months. near pro level bike handling is something that takes years and courage. near pro level line choice is also something that takes years and courage.
    No, Transcascadia is an enduro race. And, the BC Bike Race is just a normal XC stage race, where the stages generally have a net zero elevation gain/loss, and the people at the pointy end are on 120/100mm bikes.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trans-...018-dates.html

    https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en...ia-photo-recap

    Scroll down to the January 15th post:

    News from the Trans-Cascadia Team ‚ÄĒ Trans-Cascadia

    See stats from Stage 4 from 2017 (969ft climbing, 5371ft descending): Day 4: Trans-Cascadia 2017 ‚ÄĒ Trans-Cascadia
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  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    No, Transcascadia is an enduro race. And, the BC Bike Race is just a normal XC stage race, where the stages generally have a net zero elevation gain/loss, and the people at the pointy end are on 120/100mm bikes.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/trans-...018-dates.html

    https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en...ia-photo-recap

    Scroll down to the January 15th post:

    News from the Trans-Cascadia Team ‚ÄĒ Trans-Cascadia
    There are some awfully burly trails on the BC bike race. From what i have seen, most of the transcascadia trails were pretty buff and line-free.

    My point being that while all three races are not your typical XC race, they are also not your typical Enduro race where you grind to the top and then race DH tracks down for time. those races you mention are burly XC races and are endurance based from what i understand.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    There are some awfully burly trails on the BC bike race. From what i have seen, most of the transcascadia trails were pretty buff and line-free.

    My point being that while all three races are not your typical XC race, they are also not your typical Enduro race where you grind to the top and then race DH tracks down for time. those races you mention are burly XC races and are endurance based from what i understand.
    Point being, TransCascadia is in no way an XC race. There are no timed climbs, many shuttles, and people are generally riding 150mm bikes, with many people wearing full face helmets.

    And, everything is relative. The guys at the front end of the BC Bike Race are running 120/100mm or 100/100mm bikes, riding the "burly" trails insanely fast.
    Last edited by Le Duke; 07-12-2018 at 12:40 PM.
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  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Point being, TransCascadia is in no way an XC race. There are no timed climbs, many shuttles, and people are generally riding 150mm bikes, with many people wearing full face helmets.
    And your point is? It's still not the type of terrain that's being discussed.
    The "many" people wearing full face helmets just adds more evidence to this.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    And your point is? It's still not the type of terrain that's being discussed.
    The "many" people wearing full face helmets just adds more evidence to this.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    Iím not holding it up as an example of any kind of terrain.

    He said itís an XC race, when I think most people would agree it is not.


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