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  1. #1
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    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!

    Some great press today regarding the Sustainable Trails Coalition:

    Opinion | US Wilderness Act: Banning Bikes is Un*-American | ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine

    If you have donated to the STC. Thank you so much!

  2. #2
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    Dammit, those guys still aren't even halfway there finance-wise.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  3. #3
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    Great article! Might have to kick in a few more... Sad that reason, logic, and fairness count for far less than money and lobbying. Didn't know about the ban on chainsaws. WTF? They're clearing trails with hand tools? What do they do when they're fighting fires....that's gotta be waived for that?!
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  4. #4
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    Great article; glad to see it also made it out on FB (via IMBA for me).

    That the bicycle industry hasn't stepped in to help is very worrying.

    Chainsaw ban! Even wheelbarrows aren't allowed. Many years ago when hunters could no longer use deer carts in wilderness areas there was a great outcry. Fell on deaf ears (Most wilderness proponents don't want hunters in there anyway)

    At least California State Parks recently changed the rules to loosen up tool usage in the wilderness areas it manages. (Same rule change that made all trails "closed to bikes unless posted as open")

    The gist of CSP's change is "minimum tool" (in § 4351):

    "(2) the approach proposed to perform the minimum management requirement will
    make use of the “minimum tool” to best preserve the wilderness, cultural or natural
    values under the given circumstances. The “minimum tool” is defined as “the least
    intrusive tool, equipment, device, regulation, action, or practice that will achieve the
    minimum management requirements.”


    So if one mini-excavator brought in for one day is less intrusive than a crew of 10 that have to spike overnight to do the same job then the excavator gets a pass. (If that unit's maintenance chief has the balls)

    Sorry, sort of a threadjack but at least it's a bump.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by timetraveler View Post
    Great article! Might have to kick in a few more... Sad that reason, logic, and fairness count for far less than money and lobbying. Didn't know about the ban on chainsaws. WTF? They're clearing trails with hand tools? What do they do when they're fighting fires....that's gotta be waived for that?!

    Trails Of Trouble As Maintenance Slides In Wilderness Areas . News | OPB
    "only allowed to use primitive tools so they don’t detract from the wilderness experience. Instead of clearing fallen trees with solitude-ripping chainsaws, they put their backs and muscles into the teamwork required by a two-man crosscut saw."


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  6. #6
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    The hanglider thing still just cracks me up.

    If I was someone who used those things, I'd just paint it like a california condor so the average sierra clubber would think they had a magical experience if they saw me. But seriously, talk about non-mechanized and non-contact.

    And yeah the tool thing is real. I've come across FS crews busting their asses with those two man ripsaws and chisels. Carrying all sorts of archaic looking 'implements'. Other than the really popular trailheads, it's kind of nuts how many trails are disappearing because of non-use and the overwhelming amount of work involved in actually getting to and maintaining some of them. And the heavy horse use ones are just a disaster.

    Wilderness these days is a concept dreamed up around expensive coffee tables in Marin County. Seeing those ideals in the real world shows much of the absurdity.

    The addition of a bike ban in the 80s almost lends itself to the same 'traditional use' exemption that horses got, since there was a decent 15-20 years there where they weren't named.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    The hanglider thing still just cracks me up.

    If I was someone who used those things, I'd just paint it like a california condor so the average sierra clubber would think they had a magical experience if they saw me. But seriously, talk about non-mechanized and non-contact.

    And yeah the tool thing is real. I've come across FS crews busting their asses with those two man ripsaws and chisels. Carrying all sorts of archaic looking 'implements'. Other than the really popular trailheads, it's kind of nuts how many trails are disappearing because of non-use and the overwhelming amount of work involved in actually getting to and maintaining some of them. And the heavy horse use ones are just a disaster.

    Wilderness these days is a concept dreamed up around expensive coffee tables in Marin County. Seeing those ideals in the real world shows much of the absurdity.

    The addition of a bike ban in the 80s almost lends itself to the same 'traditional use' exemption that horses got, since there was a decent 15-20 years there where they weren't named.
    Ronald Reagan actually got many wilderness areas going - he was one if those horse guys. Horses helped build these trails and were using them for like a 150 years or more before bikes.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Ronald Reagan actually got many wilderness areas going - he was one if those horse guys. Horses helped build these trails and were using them for like a 150 years or more before bikes.
    The last time wide handlebars were super popular:

    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-1890mountainbike.jpg

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    The last time wide handlebars were super popular:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Oh man, that's hetch hetchy before the dam isn't it?

    That's it. "traditional use" Cool pic.


    ssh: I've never seen a horse with a McLeod or a pick.

    And there are loads of trails all over this mountain range that are there because of dams being built. You know......'wilderness character'. Plenty of them done with dynamite. Horses don't use dynamite. Just because horses were the primary vehicle for traveling rugged terrain, doesn't mean they wouldn't have been using KTMs if they were available.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  10. #10
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    That third bike from the left was the precursor to the sllingshot!

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    ^^ That's an early Tomcat prototype!



    Btw, imagine how much more respect we'd get on the trails if we all wore knickers--and ties.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk.

  12. #12
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    I guess mountain biking wasn't invented in Fairfax after all. I stand corrected. Maybe you can just present evidence of the longtime bike use and get the policy changed?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I guess mountain biking wasn't invented in Fairfax after all. I stand corrected. Maybe you can just present evidence of the longtime bike use and get the policy changed?
    There isn't a lot of logic behind the blanket ban on bicycles in "the Wilderness." The STC is the best hope for changing this policy. Once the blanket ban is lifted then individual land managers would be able to either open trails to cycling through many management techniques (alternate day use, permitting etc.) or just continue banning bikes.

    I'm not sure if the above photo will change many minds at the F.S. however changing the blanket ban on bikes in wilderness areas could.

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    Can a executive order do this? An out going president can be good for those and he likes fitness.

  15. #15
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    "act of congress"



    Also: if you take your chain off you lose your mechanized transportation ability, IE: your mechanical advantage.

    So hey if you just push to some good high points in wilderness, coasting is allowed.

    Pretty sure that's the case. You know.....like skis. Tell your friends.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    "act of congress"



    Also: if you take your chain off you lose your mechanized transportation ability, IE: your mechanical advantage.

    So hey if you just push to some good high points in wilderness, coasting is allowed.

    Pretty sure that's the case. You know.....like skis. Tell your friends.
    Wheels are not allowed; sorry.

    BTW I thought that photo was from somewhere in Europe; can anybody confirm?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Wheels are not allowed; sorry.
    ......flew past, about 2 inches above the scalp


    Ski bikes it is!

    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  18. #18
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    If this takes an act of congress, it can never happen. They don't really pass much these days.

  19. #19
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    I believe the 1898 photo is from Norway.

    These are banned in Wilderness:



    As are these:



    Not that I'd be interested in either!

  20. #20
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    I'd like the ride that ski bike though a winter Sierra Club camp out cranking out at full blast "ride of the valkyries" on a loudspeaker.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebc View Post
    i'd like the ride that ski bike though a winter sierra club camp out cranking out at full blast "ride of the valkyries" on a loudspeaker.

    charlie don't shred!!!

  22. #22
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    Great op-ed, hope the Sustainable Trails Coalition can get it some wider exposure. It deserves to be in a mainstream outdoors publication.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post

    That the bicycle industry hasn't stepped in to help is very worrying.
    This is very worrisome to me too. You'd think they would be bribing various local politicians to get trail access. They would sell more bikes.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  24. #24
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    Also: it's hard enough to communicate an important message without the web site running a juvenile ad next to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    This is very worrisome to me too. You'd think they would be bribing various local politicians to get trail access. They would sell more bikes.
    Maybe we should be writing to the bike companies, too. It wouldn't be much for them to throw some cash in.
    Another idea is mass protest rides through wilderness areas. Might not work, but it would be a hell of a lot of fun to rally some prime unridden singletrack with a huge crew. What could an already under-manned FS do to 50 or so riders poaching at once?

  26. #26
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    Bike industry is waiting for IMBA's lead which does not have the balls to get behind it
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    Another view of the area. The cyclist are standing within the hotel grounds.

    Live to Ride, Ride to Live

  28. #28
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    Man I can't believe they submerged that hotel when they filled hetch hetchy. Such a shame.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Bike industry is waiting for IMBA's lead which does not have the balls to get behind it
    It is a bummer for sure.


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    This is very worrisome to me too. You'd think they would be bribing various local politicians to get trail access. They would sell more bikes.
    Before I dump on bike manufacturers for not joining in I'll bump with the link to where to make a grass-roots donation:

    Sustainable Trails Coalition.org
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  31. #31
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    Manufacturers are too afraid of antagonizing the forest service. The antis don't have such qualms

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    Another view of the area. The cyclist are standing within the hotel grounds.
    Nevertheless I am still confused. This is Norway? Hetch Hetchy? I haven't been to either. It doesn't look like photos of the back side of Kolana Rock

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Manufacturers are too afraid of antagonizing the forest service. The antis don't have such qualms

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    I'm wondering if they're worried about antagonizing the Sierra Club?

    Mountain bikes are the largest-selling sector of the bicycle market place at 25% but a minority when all the other types are added up.

    Do the major manufacturers make more money form MTB's or the "others"? They may be concerned that the "others" would prefer wilderness areas just the way they are (w/o bikes).

    Anecdotal; I've run into a few SC card-carrying roadies who could care less about granting MTB's access anywhere.

    (That 25% figure came from here and it's from 2012: Industry Overview 2014 - National Bicycle Dealers Association)
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  34. #34
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    Dang, 30% less LBS in 10 years..

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
    Nevertheless I am still confused. This is Norway? Hetch Hetchy? I haven't been to either. It doesn't look like photos of the back side of Kolana Rock
    I posted the photo to indicate that bicycles were ridden on trails before Gary Fisher did...

    Saying that off road cycling was invented in Marin is utter nonsense. Mountain bike marketing and the term "mountain bike" was invented in Marin. That is about it.

    I also have some great photos of a dual suspension Bianchi that was fabricated in 1915 that I "discovered" in Italy this summer.

    So actually, I invented mountain biking. Bow down. LOL just kidding that this the IPA talking again.


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  36. #36
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    Pour some of that IPA on the curb for our Montana homies:

    Save montana trails - Home

    "Wild remote country, challenging trails, no crowds. Montana should be the place to ride if you are looking for adventure. Until recently it was.

    Unfortunately, over the last five years, nearly 800 miles of trail in Montana have been closed or are at risk of being closed to bikes. During their Travel Planning, the National Forests in Montana have implemented a new policy that wilderness study areas and recommended wilderness areas will be managed as wilderness when it comes to bikes."

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I posted the photo to indicate that bicycles were ridden on trails before Gary Fisher did...

    Saying that off road cycling was invented in Marin is utter nonsense. Mountain bike marketing and the term "mountain bike" was invented in Marin. That is about it.

    I also have some great photos of a dual suspension Bianchi that was fabricated in 1915 that I "discovered" in Italy this summer.

    So actually, I invented mountain biking. Bow down. LOL just kidding that this the IPA talking again.


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    Half of Fairfax will be coming after you now. According to that 1970s style tile wall, those guys are gods just like Jerry Garcia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidwoo View Post
    Man I can't believe they submerged that hotel when they filled hetch hetchy. Such a shame.
    That hotel is still there, not Hetch Hetchy though: Stalheim Hotel
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Half of Fairfax will be coming after you now. According to that 1970s style tile wall, those guys are gods just like Jerry Garcia.
    Nah. Even those dudes know what's up. Props to them for popularizing a thing we all love doing: riding bicycles on dirt paths.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    That hotel is still there, not Hetch Hetchy though: Stalheim Hotel

    Thank you!

  41. #41
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    Found this today:

    Save montana trails - Home

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Nah. Even those dudes know what's up. Props to them for popularizing a thing we all love doing: riding bicycles on dirt paths.


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    They made it a sport. I wish the companies they started could help with access issues a bit more.

  43. #43
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    Dear STC donor,

    We have great news. Sustainable Trails Coalition's model Wilderness and National Scenic Trails reform bill is being reviewed by congressional staff whose job it is to turn draft legislation into a bill that a senator or representative can introduce in Congress.

    Combined with the work of STC's professional advocates to bring about this legislative step, this is, in our opinion, the most significant advance in Congress that mountain bikers have ever achieved.

    What's the next step? When congressional staff rewrite a draft bill, they send it back to the legislator who asked them to work on it. Then that senator or representative has to make a final decision whether to introduce it or not.

    So we're not at the stage at which a bill is being introduced. But we hope that will follow in the next few weeks. We'll keep you informed directly, as well as post updates on Facebook and our website.

    I attach a copy of the model bill, so you can see the raw material that congressional staff will be working with. The final version is likely to look quite different.

    This is all thanks to you, our donors. You're making history.

    Sincerely,

    Ted Stroll
    STC board president

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Wheels are not allowed; sorry.

    BTW I thought that photo was from somewhere in Europe; can anybody confirm?
    Shoes are a mechanical advantage. Lets insist all hikers must hike barefoot, and horses can not be shod.

    Canteens, tents, sleeping bags, food and water containers, backpacks, stoves, utensils, walking sticks, hats, sunscreen, tooth brushes and much more are commonly used by hikers. These are all mechanical advantages. Cloths are certainly a mechanical advantage as are sunglasses, compasses, maps, cell phones, GPS devices, bear spray, dentures, dental work, eye glasses or contact lenses, surgical implants, binoculars, pencils, stationary or citation books.

    Anyone entering wilderness should enter completely naked and not be carrying anything. They should not be allowed to urinate or defecate in the wilderness unless they carry it out with them and remember plastic bags, being a mechanical advantage, are not allowed.
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

  45. #45
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    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!

    If you don't already subscribe to Bike, grab the December issue at your local newsstand.

    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-idaho.jpg

    On Sale: Bike Magazine December 2015 | BIKE Magazine
    Last edited by Empty_Beer; 11-22-2015 at 08:05 AM.

  46. #46
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    Good press for STC and a glimmer of hope for the future:

    http://www.outsideonline.com/2038461...day-wilderness


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  47. #47
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    So IMBA is now part of the wildernuts. They won't get another dime from me.

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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    So IMBA is now part of the wildernuts. They won't get another dime from me.
    If you are referring to this quoted paragraph, then I was also shocked at first, until I realized (from reading other articles) that IMBA is trying the "something is better than nothing" approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outside Magazine-Vernon Felton
    Those objections, however, have largely fallen on deaf ears. Groups such as the Wilderness Society and the Sierra Club continue to oppose mountain biking in Wilderness areas, often arguing that mountain biking is simply inconsistent with Wilderness ideals. Moreover, mountain biking’s lead advocacy group, the International Mountain Bicycling Association (IMBA), chooses not to oppose the ban, opting instead to work around it by advocating for boundary changes and alternative “companion” designations, such as National Monument status, that protect the environment while still allowing for mountain biking.
    Ted Stroll has been involved more than I ever will be, so while I hate to give in to any government bullcrap, he is definitely an person to listen to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Stroll
    “I’ve come to realize that the Forest Service is an agency that can’t be budged,” he says. “It is not going to reconsider its blanket bans on bikes in Wilderness or the Pacific Crest Trail and, as those closures in Wilderness Study Areas shows, their attitude towards bikes on singletrack is only hardening.”

    yes it sucks. everywhere we turn to get away from taxes, rules, and fines, the government employees are inserting themselves and their regal pension costs.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackies Pasture View Post
    If you are referring to this quoted paragraph, then I was also shocked at first, until I realized (from reading other articles) that IMBA is onto "something is better than nothing approach".



    This guy has been involved more than I ever will be, so while I hate to give in to any government bullcrap, he is definitely an person to listen to:

    [/FONT]
    Based on how well that worked with the Boulder white clouds wilderness designation, IMBA is mostly sticking to a losing strategy.

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    I was an IMBA member and while I understand their approach. I certainly feel let down. I'm sure that many in Idaho and Montana feel the same. All of these great places to ride are being taken away. Even if the local land manager wants to keep the trails open to cycling they can't.

    If you think this won't affect you it will. Look at what is proposed in Oregon:

    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-wildernuts.jpg

    Even closer to home some seldom ridden trails in Point Reyes that are still open to cycling will be closed soon near Drakes Estero. Due to new proposed wilderness boundaries that includes areas that have been severely disturbed by humans. I can't even get a straight answer from the NPS on that and zero bike advocates in Marin have followed up on it.

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  5. Jim Thorpe Trail Coalition
    By topoftheworldma in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-12-2012, 10:38 AM

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