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  1. #201
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    I have been am member of IMBA for more years than I can possibly remember. I have been on the fence for opting out as well for a while. I totally support the efforts of STC. I am now going to end my membership to IMBA and send money to STC instead. I still belong to a club that is an IMBA member. Yes, that costs money as well, but I am glad to pay for belonging.

    I wish there was some way I could send a message to IMBA to let them know exactly why I am ending my membership. Any ideas?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trailseeker View Post
    I have been am member of IMBA for more years than I can possibly remember. I have been on the fence for opting out as well for a while. I totally support the efforts of STC. I am now going to end my membership to IMBA and send money to STC instead. I still belong to a club that is an IMBA member. Yes, that costs money as well, but I am glad to pay for belonging.

    I wish there was some way I could send a message to IMBA to let them know exactly why I am ending my membership. Any ideas?
    Consider keeping the IMBA membership. Doubly so if you have a local IMBA chapter. The IMBA is still very important, doubly so the regional chapters. STC are the only ones making a push for cycling on trails nationally. Locally IMBA is still very helpful. So simple, so easy. Yet everyone wants to turn this into a US vs THEM argument drama also sells interwebz ads. So there is that too. Please do fall for this. Be smarter than that! STC is not advocating with making trouble for the IMBA, the IMBA is doing that to themselves by not at the very least - getting out of the way of the STC. Hopefully, this is a temporary issue.

    Support both. STC will never have Subaru's with trail crews nationally. IMBA will not/has not written a bill for Congress, specifically for bike access. In fact the IMBA has agreed not to with the Sierra Club (the Park City agreement). So again STC, nationally, IMBA locally.
    Last edited by Davey Simon; 01-25-2016 at 09:03 PM.

  3. #203
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    Bravo!
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  4. #204
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    Well, this year money is a little tight, so I am picking one, STC.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Well, this year money is a little tight, so I am picking one, STC.
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  6. #206
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    ^^

    Every trails a flow trail ifya would just learn how to ride-stop dumbing down the planet

  7. #207
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    Former IMBA chair and newest STC board member, John Bliss, chats with Vernon Felton of Bike Magazine to answer a few questions:

    Room for Two? | BIKE Magazine

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Reading up on this history was pretty cool. Learning that the Sierra Club wasn't always a HOHA's organization that literally does nothing while the world melts and rejoices in keeping children out of wild places was certainly refreshing.
    People forget . . . . If not for the Sierra Club and like-minded folks, there would be a lot fewer national parks, a lot more development spread across the woods, Mt. Tam State Park would be smaller than it is, and there would be a reservoir where Muir Woods stands today. People who condemn the Sierra Club here have probably ridden trails that would be paved roads or private land if not for the Sierra Club. Their anti-bike approach prevents me from supporting them any more, unfortunately, but these are not bad people; just ignorant/misguided in some ways that are important to us mountain bikers.

  9. #209
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    J-Flo, that's enough rationality. This is the era of presidential candidates like Trump. Nobody wants to think like that anymore.

    :-)
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    People forget . . . . If not for the Sierra Club and like-minded folks, there would be a lot fewer national parks, a lot more development spread across the woods, Mt. Tam State Park would be smaller than it is, and there would be a reservoir where Muir Woods stands today. People who condemn the Sierra Club here have probably ridden trails that would be paved roads or private land if not for the Sierra Club. Their anti-bike approach prevents me from supporting them any more, unfortunately, but these are not bad people; just ignorant/misguided in some ways that are important to us mountain bikers.
    Past achievements do not excuse current actions. Sierra Club changed.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Past achievements do not excuse current actions. Sierra Club changed.
    It's fun visiting the Sierra Club's lodge in the Sierra and reading their history there. I should probably take some pictures of what they have on display before they hide it. You see, they used to *run* a ski area. Very much of the 'if you see and enjoy nature you will protect it' attitude (insert John Muir quote here). Yes, some of the move towards protection is based on science and understanding human impact, but much is anti-science.

    (In the Bay Area, they've long been anti-housing. Of course, that's pro sprawl and pro global warming, but it does make their existing houses look a bit prettier. And has bitten them since they had to vacate their SF headquarters due to rising rent.)

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    It's fun visiting the Sierra Club's lodge in the Sierra and reading their history there. I should probably take some pictures of what they have on display before they hide it. You see, they used to *run* a ski area. Very much of the 'if you see and enjoy nature you will protect it' attitude (insert John Muir quote here). Yes, some of the move towards protection is based on science and understanding human impact, but much is anti-science.

    (In the Bay Area, they've long been anti-housing. Of course, that's pro sprawl and pro global warming, but it does make their existing houses look a bit prettier. And has bitten them since they had to vacate their SF headquarters due to rising rent.)
    From Facebook (Sierra Club is pushing hard against minimal recreational access to Water lands on SF peninsula.)

    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-12002977_1009599745737456_1316333956389058760_n.jpg

  13. #213
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    I know its not all up front but I set up an automatic $20 every month to STC through PayPal. $20x12=$240 I recommend this route for those who don't have $200 to donate all at once.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    From Facebook (Sierra Club is pushing hard against minimal recreational access to Water lands on SF peninsula.)

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    Damn who made that image? Hammer meet nail!


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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    From Facebook (Sierra Club is pushing hard against minimal recreational access to Water lands on SF peninsula.)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "Everybody needs...places to play in..."

    ---John Muir


    FWIW California State Parks quietly dropped "Recreation" from their "casual" name; the bias against recreation runs deep.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Damn who made that image?
    https://www.facebook.com/opentheSFwatershed

    One initiative that really needs our support.

    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    the bias against recreation runs deep.
    It is the natural aversion to doing any actual work that is natural to any established bureaucratic system.

  17. #217
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    relevant?


    IMBA developing volunteer app with unself | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News

    BOULDER, Colo. (BRAIN) — The International Mountain Bicycling Association is developing a mobile app for its volunteers and volunteer coordinators, working with unself, a company that develops similar apps for a variety of community organizations.
    IMBA will provide subject matter expertise in return for unself providing access to its mobile app and web portal that will include features specific to IMBA's requirements.
    "This app means new possibilities for our local chapters and a better tool to measure the incredible volume of stewardship IMBA and its chapters influence," said Kevin Adams, IMBDA's vice president of chapter and member services.
    The app is designed to streamline the process of promoting, coordinating, and reporting volunteer events.
    "We look forward to supporting IMBA by helping expand and diversify its volunteer base," said Karl Schroeder, unself's chief product officer. "This partnership will help us develop the best tool for organizations to cultivate new interest while also furthering our mission to best serve volunteers."

  18. #218
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    I don't understand what those paragraphs of nebulous corporate-speak even mean! Can someone translate them into English?

  19. #219
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    My read:
    IMBA is working on providing a volunteer management tool to its chapters.

    No idea what this has to do with the STC. It does fit with IMBA's current direction on chapter support, and doesn't seem to directly impact any particular external political issue.

  20. #220
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    I think the more appropriate place for this would be in the recent IMBA thread personally.

    Just a thought...

  21. #221
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    BOULDER, Colo. (BRAIN) — The International Mountain Bicycling Association is developing a mobile app for its volunteers and volunteer coordinators, working with unself, a company that develops similar apps for a variety of community organizations.
    IMBA will provide subject matter expertise in return for unself providing access to its mobile app and web portal that will include features specific to IMBA's requirements.
    "This app means new possibilities for our local chapters and a better tool to measure the incredible volume of stewardship IMBA and its chapters influence," said Kevin Adams, IMBDA's vice president of chapter and member services.
    The app is designed to streamline the process of promoting, coordinating, and reporting volunteer events.
    "We look forward to supporting IMBA by helping expand and diversify its volunteer base," said Karl Schroeder, unself's chief product officer. "This partnership will help us develop the best tool for organizations to cultivate new interest while also furthering our mission to best serve volunteers."[/QUOTE]

    This is a great idea, it will streamline the process of keeping track of volunteer hours that mountain bikers contribute in trail maintenance. Even if you are working solo, you will be able to add that contribution to a politically relevant database. Good use of Tech.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossterioso View Post
    BOULDER, Colo. (BRAIN) — The International Mountain Bicycling Association is developing a mobile app for its volunteers and volunteer coordinators, working with unself, a company that develops similar apps for a variety of community organizations.
    IMBA will provide subject matter expertise in return for unself providing access to its mobile app and web portal that will include features specific to IMBA's requirements.
    "This app means new possibilities for our local chapters and a better tool to measure the incredible volume of stewardship IMBA and its chapters influence," said Kevin Adams, IMBDA's vice president of chapter and member services.
    The app is designed to streamline the process of promoting, coordinating, and reporting volunteer events.
    "We look forward to supporting IMBA by helping expand and diversify its volunteer base," said Karl Schroeder, unself's chief product officer. "This partnership will help us develop the best tool for organizations to cultivate new interest while also furthering our mission to best serve volunteers."
    This is a great idea, it will streamline the process of keeping track of volunteer hours that mountain bikers contribute in trail maintenance. Even if you are working solo, you will be able to add that contribution to a politically relevant database. Good use of Tech.[/QUOTE]

    Bit of a thread drift but:

    I really wish for the best and hope that this IMBA app means more volunteers out at Tamarancho. Same with the teen trail corps. Out of the entire NICA league I've only seen these kids out and they were far too young and gravity oriented for NICA:



    But at least they get it. Two rather large NICA camps at T-ranch recently with riders there all weekend. I'm cool with it but one would hope that trail MX is at least worth a mention.

    I've already contacted the Teen Trail Corps and offered up trail days "whenever". I hope they send us some volunteers. The two kids above cleared almost all the drains on the trail along with a few others. A NICA team could get the trial cleared in just a couple of hours max. The NICA teams love riding at Tranch but other than the odd straggler, zero MX participation this season.

    Of course that could be said for the entire cycling community as well. We have a zero budget and alcohol is prohibited at Tranch so we can't rock it like MBOSC but it's tough getting people involved in what should be a very basic part of off road cycling.

    I'm cautiously optimistic that an app could change things for the better but there is a cultural issue to the problem the app is trying to solve.


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  23. #223
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    Oh crap, Simon, don't open that can of worms! When I worked for the NorCal League (before NICA), I suggested that ALL athletes be required to do at least 8 hours of trail work over the summer to be able to participate in any League race/function, almost got laughed out of the room, couldn't believe it, I guess that's what you get with the league being run by roadies at the time....

  24. #224
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    More from STC's John Bliss, via The Angry Singlespeeder:

    Interview with new STC board member John Bliss - Mtbr.com

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossterioso View Post
    BOULDER, Colo. (BRAIN) — The International Mountain Bicycling Association is developing a mobile app for its volunteers and volunteer coordinators, working with unself, a company that develops similar apps for a variety of community organizations.
    IMBA will provide subject matter expertise in return for unself providing access to its mobile app and web portal that will include features specific to IMBA's requirements.
    Interesting approach. They could have tried to make an open source app instead, that developers which are also mountain bikers will contribute to. Bikers and trail workers would build the features they actually need. But then IMBA will not have as much control.

  26. #226
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    96% of mt. bikers recently surveyed say they are in favor of Wilderness access.

    I would have guessed it would be 75% in favor and 25% opposed. Even more interesting to me is the younger demographic was even more in favor of Wilderness access than the older respondents, indicating that this issue will absolutely go away as older folks retire or pass on and today's youth is left to manage our public lands.

    96% of Mountain Bikers Think Wilderness Should Be Opened to Bikes | Singletracks Mountain Bike News

    I'm also surprised that IMBA hasn't (AFAIK) conducted a more robust survey of its members regarding Wilderness, even using a 3rd party to conduct it.

  27. #227
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    IMBA's take on designated Wilderness access:
    IMBA’s 2016 Position on Land Protection and Mountain Bike Trail Access


    IMBA’s board has determined that IMBA's mission and the mountain bike enthusiast community is best served by reiterating our strong commitment to collaboration and further diversifying and strengthening our broad partnerships
    Partnerships with who? the Sierra Club?

    ...IMBA will continue to respect both the Wilderness Act and the federal land agencies' regulations that bicycles are not allowed in existing Wilderness areas.
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  28. #228
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    Thanks Chum!

    Buuhhhh-Bye IMBA...

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    IMBA's take on designated Wilderness access:
    IMBA’s 2016 Position on Land Protection and Mountain Bike Trail Access




    Partnerships with who? the Sierra Club?



    They clearly can't agree on a way forward, hence the double speak that achieves nothing ...

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  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Bit of a thread drift but:

    I really wish for the best and hope that this IMBA app means more volunteers out at Tamarancho. Same with the teen trail corps. Out of the entire NICA league I've only seen these kids out and they were far too young and gravity oriented for NICA:
    Apologies for continued thread drift, but this doesn't sound right. I would think the kids on the big teams at Drake, Redwood, SRHS etc. would show up to work on their good local singletrack if prodded and am guessing they are just in a different orbit for trail work. I would also think that a call out to their coaches would remedy that pretty quickly if more able bodies are needed to help. Reach out to Otis and Sarah at Drake (emails available here Coaches and Staff Bios ? Drake High School ? Mountain Bike Team), team director Julia at Redwood (info@rhsmtb.com), and Jon at SRHS (coachjon@dawgsmtb.org).

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_G View Post
    Oh crap, Simon, don't open that can of worms! When I worked for the NorCal League (before NICA), I suggested that ALL athletes be required to do at least 8 hours of trail work over the summer to be able to participate in any League race/function, almost got laughed out of the room, couldn't believe it, I guess that's what you get with the league being run by roadies at the time....
    This is a soft requirement for some teams. At Berkeley we say students are expected to volunteer for at least one day per season, but this is not enforced as a mandatory requirement (and most of our efforts are in the East Bay so you don't see us much on Marin work days). I favor making it mandatory.

  31. #231
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    The last straw

    Coming on the heels of the ST MBN's "96% of MTBers want wilderness access" survey results this position statement is the last straw for me.

    https://www.imba.com/news/2016Advocacy

    What I said here # 140 was "They've made it pretty clear now with this press release, I guess my support for IMBA must cease" and I'm saying it again.

    IMBA's bread is obviously being buttered by various industry groups; not by grass-roots users.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  32. #232
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    From IMBA's release:

    IMBA’s government relations and chapter-based advocacy activities are deliberately crafted with long-term, continuous success as a primary objective. Therefore, we believe that aligning with any organization or strategy that threatens our long-term success would not be in our members’ best interests. Preserving and improving effective working relationships with the various land management agencies that we have developed over the years is critically important to achieving this. We have been accused of being an organization of compromise, but that is the essence of long-term success in our democracy where many differing viewpoints on federal land protection are heard as a matter of environmental law.
    In other words, they don't think STC's effort will succeed, therefore they think it dangerous to try. Between the lines is the fear of upsetting allies in the environmental movement. The part about upsetting land management agencies is baloney; land managers have no problem working with people who are trying to change the law or influence the rulemaking process and IMBA already does that extensively.

    If pro-environment activists thought this way, most of their achievements over the last 50+ years would not have occurred. It would have been much easier to go along with Big Oil, Big Mining, Big Timber etc. and avoid ruffling feathers, losing votes, and creating enemies. Certainly the environmentalists have lost more battles than they have won over the years. Yet the environmentalists manage to work with other groups (e.g., hunters) with whom many of them have strong disagreements. Why is IMBA afraid of disagreeing with them?

    Part of the problem here is that there is an aggressive move to expand Wilderness protections in numerous areas, which is already threatening to lead to banning of bikes in non-Wilderness areas (a land management strategy to make the Wilderness designation less of a change and therefore easier to push through). When mountain bikers' only response is to fight for alternative designations (e.g., Nat'l Monument) or changes to boundaries, that just lumps us in with the motorsports crowd.

    The rest of IMBA's argument, that Wilderness is only 2.9% of US acreage in the "lower 49" states, therefore this is not a big deal and we should stop complaining, is similar to the argument by Marin land managers that we have such wonderful "trail" access that we don't need more. Wrongheaded and unfortunate. And of course completely misstates reality on the ground in the Western states.

    Apparently IMBA's Board believes that we mountain bikers as a group are truly very weak and ineffective and will be unable to accomplish anything without support/collaboration with those who seek to expand Wilderness and thus expand the areas where bikes are banned. Thus we have to settle for whatever "successes" we can achieve and should not attempt anything risky. How did IMBA become so conservative and risk-averse? It seems incompatible with the spirit of mountain biking. Frankly, I think it says that IMBA has decided it is a weak and ineffective organization and should not get ambitious. Disappointing.

    The one bright spot I see here is IMBA's conclusion:

    We also want to encourage supporters to recognize that there is room in the public policy arena for you to support multiple organizations. If you are aligned with other mountain bike advocacy organizations’ vision, strategies and tactics, please support them. If you plan on mountain biking long term, IMBA values your loyal support too! This is a win-win for all.
    I read this as saying IMBA won't oppose STC. That's good. IMBA had better stick to this. We don't need a war inside the MTB community.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    From IMBA's release:



    In other words, they don't think STC's effort will succeed, therefore they think it dangerous to try. Between the lines is the fear of upsetting allies in the environmental movement. The part about upsetting land management agencies is baloney; land managers have no problem working with people who are trying to change the law or influence the rulemaking process and IMBA already does that extensively.

    If pro-environment activists thought this way, most of their achievements over the last 50+ years would not have occurred. It would have been much easier to go along with Big Oil, Big Mining, Big Timber etc. and avoid ruffling feathers, losing votes, and creating enemies. Certainly the environmentalists have lost more battles than they have won over the years. Yet the environmentalists manage to work with other groups (e.g., hunters) with whom many of them have strong disagreements. Why is IMBA afraid of disagreeing with them?

    Part of the problem here is that there is an aggressive move to expand Wilderness protections in numerous areas, which is already threatening to lead to banning of bikes in non-Wilderness areas (a land management strategy to make the Wilderness designation less of a change and therefore easier to push through). When mountain bikers' only response is to fight for alternative designations (e.g., Nat'l Monument) or changes to boundaries, that just lumps us in with the motorsports crowd.

    The rest of IMBA's argument, that Wilderness is only 2.9% of US acreage in the "lower 49" states, therefore this is not a big deal and we should stop complaining, is similar to the argument by Marin land managers that we have such wonderful "trail" access that we don't need more. Wrongheaded and unfortunate. And of course completely misstates reality on the ground in the Western states.

    Apparently IMBA's Board believes that we mountain bikers as a group are truly very weak and ineffective and will be unable to accomplish anything without support/collaboration with those who seek to expand Wilderness and thus expand the areas where bikes are banned. Thus we have to settle for whatever "successes" we can achieve and should not attempt anything risky. How did IMBA become so conservative and risk-averse? It seems incompatible with the spirit of mountain biking. Frankly, I think it says that IMBA has decided it is a weak and ineffective organization and should not get ambitious. Disappointing.

    The one bright spot I see here is IMBA's conclusion:



    I read this as saying IMBA won't oppose STC. That's good. IMBA had better stick to this. We don't need a war inside the MTB community.
    I think they are saying to keep giving money to IMBA.

    They are opposing STC by saying "we believe that aligning with any organization or strategy that threatens our long-term success would not be in our members’ best interests"
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  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    I think they are saying to keep giving money to IMBA.

    They are opposing STC by saying "we believe that aligning with any organization or strategy that threatens our long-term success would not be in our members’ best interests"
    IMBAs press conference follows behind the scenes politics. For now I can't say what happened but I can say it involved the Wilderness Society and the IMBA

    Sadly the outlook regarding the IMBA and STS "seeing eye to eye" remains incredibly important and a slim possibility. Although I have yet to hear the audio from today's press conference.

    STC will continue to push forward. After a bit of "sad panda" soul searching I've decided that this movement will continue to build and grow despite the best efforts of the IMBA.

    I remain positive due to the recent polling results and the overall success of STC due to our supporters. Onward to victory.




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  35. #235
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    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Apologies for continued thread drift, but this doesn't sound right. I would think the kids on the big teams at Drake, Redwood, SRHS etc. would show up to work on their good local singletrack if prodded and am guessing they are just in a different orbit for trail work. I would also think that a call out to their coaches would remedy that pretty quickly if more able bodies are needed to help. Reach out to Otis and Sarah at Drake (emails available here Coaches and Staff Bios ? Drake High School ? Mountain Bike Team), team director Julia at Redwood (info@rhsmtb.com), and Jon at SRHS (coachjon@dawgsmtb.org).



    This is a soft requirement for some teams. At Berkeley we say students are expected to volunteer for at least one day per season, but this is not enforced as a mandatory requirement (and most of our efforts are in the East Bay so you don't see us much on Marin work days). I favor making it mandatory.
    I'll let you know if any NICA teams show up for a trail day. I already mentioned I've reached out to team trail corps effort as well. We won't turn any volunteers away.



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    Last edited by Davey Simon; 02-18-2016 at 08:58 PM.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    IMBA's bread is obviously being buttered by various industry groups; not by grass-roots users.
    Wouldn't the industry want more open trails? More trails = more sales?

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrozCountry View Post
    Wouldn't the industry want more open trails? More trails = more sales?
    Industry is interested in the illusion of more open trails; an illusion that IMBA does well.

    Industry has avoided STC like it has STD; not a dime of support from the big MFG's I've been told.

    Industry want trails where the image of fun comes in the form of a $10K bike going big. Not much money in bikes adequately suited for "low impact recreation".

    Besides; IMBA reports only 2.9% of the land in the lower 48 is in wilderness so why bother with such meager gains? Surely this must be true coming from IMBA.
    Last edited by Moe Ped; 02-19-2016 at 07:27 AM.
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  38. #238
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    2.9% of total land but more like 30% of open space

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  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    2.9% of total land but more like 30% of open space

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    Yes 2.9% fixed my post. Where IMBA is off by a factor of more than 10 is that here in California 31% of federal land is locked up in wilderness area. Very significant considering CA is the most populated state at around 12% of USA totals.

    IMBA likes to take our monies and what are we getting in return?


    (actually more than 31% if one adds in state wilderness; STC is not yet going after that though)
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  40. #240
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    Nor Cal kids coming to Mendo coast for trail work

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'll let you know if any NICA teams show up for a trail day. I already mentioned I've reached out to team trail corps effort as well. We won't turn any volunteers away.



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    Davey,

    A while back arrangements were made by Robert "Coco" Ramirez of the Nor Cal High School Cycling League to do trail work this Sunday on the new Resurrection trail - Rd 630. It is a way of returning the favor for all the bike guiding we have volunteered to them over the last three years.

    I agree with you that it is important to the greater community of cycling that the kids get more involved with trail maintenance. Once they see the hard work that goes into creating or maintaining the trails they are left with a sense of pride of involvement and less inclined to ride recklessly. I applaud Coco and Nor-Cal HSCL for taking the initiative to make this event happen. There is no excuse for any of the teams not participating in the future preservation of the trails.

  41. #241
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    Wow, screw IMBA! I've been a member for 10 years, that time has come to a close. The most important possible issue with mountain bike access is wilderness. You want to talk about long term planning, what could be more important than wilderness access??? I want to ride my bike in beautiful places. I love steep technical downhills, and big backcountry alpine rides... neither of which IMBA pushes for.

    Funny, I just moved to Washington, where the mountain bike scene is exploding and new trails are being built everywhere (legally) that are technical and fun. There is no IMBA representation here... coincidence??

    Enjoy your flow trails IMBA, go f*ck yourselves.

  42. #242
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  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Hey Davey,

    Thanks for keeping this subject front and center!

    Twice in the last two months, whenever I've read about this issue, I've donated $25 to STC for their lobbying efforts. I know it's not a lot but I hope it helps them move the ball forward.

    While I don't believe it makes sense to stop supporting IMBA I'm not sending anything to them other than my one time annual membership fee. We vote with our money and one can hope that someone at IMBA is able to follow the dollars and connect the dots. If not we all know what happens to organizations, and organisms, that don't evolve!

    Thanks, again, for all your hard work on this and other issues!

    Take care,

    Michael
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    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!

    Well thanks!

    Personally I feel that IMBA could take credit for what STC started and see the donations flow in. Give themselves all raises, new Subarus and a trip to the BWC to ride the trails they opened.

    With success STC will no longer be a thorn in the side of IMBA and their support would mean huge donations to IMBA from the 96% of us who want to see real change.

    None of the the STC board take any $$$ we'd just be happy with success. Even getting our bill sponsored would have been a huge step in the right direction.


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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Well thanks!

    Personally I feel that IMBA could take credit for what STC started and see the donations flow in. Give themselves all raises, new Subarus and a trip to the BWC to ride the trails they opened.

    With success STC will no longer be a thorn in the side of IMBA and their support would mean huge donations to IMBA from the 96% of us who want to see real change.

    None of the the STC board take any $$$ we'd just be happy with success. Even getting our bill sponsored would have been a huge step in the right direction.


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    There’s a reason there’s a second chopstick. This is why the Sustainable Trails Coalition exists.

    Davey, keep up the great work and focus at STC! After the recent IMBA announcement, I can no longer support IMBA's efforts or lack of. It is really about the Chapter clubs which do all the real work. I was never any good at using chopsticks. So, a fork will have to do to get the work done without IMBA, while finding them to be the weak link in the bigger picture... I'm officially on file with them saying no more "egg rolls for you baby!" Donating to IMBA just doesn't feel good anymore.

  46. #246
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    Here's yer problem

    While trying to figure out who the eff was on IMBA's BOD and responsible for their Wilderness stance I stumbled upon this gem:



    (arrow added by me as editorial comment)
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  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    While trying to figure out who the eff was on IMBA's BOD and responsible for their Wilderness stance I stumbled upon this gem:



    (arrow added by me as editorial comment)
    Post of the month.

    Well done.

  48. #248
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    I also noticed that the new IMBA piece on Wilderness protection was authored by IMBA's "Senior Director of Marketing" as opposed to any member of the Board or any advocacy official.

    Note that IMBA, by design, is not principally an advocacy organization and is limited by law to how much resources it can devote to advocacy. (This is because it is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, making donations to it tax-deductible.) The lack of IMBA support for the initiative indicates only that, as an advocacy organization, it is weak and totally compromised. But IMBA still does lots of great work supporting mountain biking so let's try to avoid spewing hate on IMBA.

    I know that many mountain bikers are also environmentalists (myself included). I wonder whether the members of the IMBA Board in taking this stance were wearing their mountain biker helmets or environmentalist hats. I have no idea what happens behind the scenes but I can tell you I cancelled my Wilderness Society membership a couple years ago and Sierra Club last year. I can't support them any more when they are trying to limit where I can ride my bike. IMBA is a different story; they are still worthy of support -- but for other reasons, not for fighting for trail access.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    I also noticed that the new IMBA piece on Wilderness protection was authored by IMBA's "Senior Director of Marketing" as opposed to any member of the Board or any advocacy official.

    Note that IMBA, by design, is not principally an advocacy organization and is limited by law to how much resources it can devote to advocacy. (This is because it is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, making donations to it tax-deductible.) The lack of IMBA support for the initiative indicates only that, as an advocacy organization, it is weak and totally compromised. But IMBA still does lots of great work supporting mountain biking so let's try to avoid spewing hate on IMBA.

    I know that many mountain bikers are also environmentalists (myself included). I wonder whether the members of the IMBA Board in taking this stance were wearing their mountain biker helmets or environmentalist hats. I have no idea what happens behind the scenes but I can tell you I cancelled my Wilderness Society membership a couple years ago and Sierra Club last year. I can't support them any more when they are trying to limit where I can ride my bike. IMBA is a different story; they are still worthy of support -- but for other reasons, not for fighting for trail access.
    Yes what you say goes along with an IMBA sourced comment from a few weeks back; "We're not a bike club; we're an association". I get that. But what has just become very apparent is that they're an association of bicycling industry interests and what 96% of MTBers want just doesn't matter.

    Reminds me of the old adage "What's good for General Motors is good for the country".

    "Win-win"? Was it? Is it?

    FWIW IMBA's IRS 990 for 2014 revenue shows:

    $1.19M membership dues

    $1.94M "other" (contributions, gifts, grants and etc.)

    $1.51M trail consulting

    $0.98M cycling events

    So what my take-away is that if you add the non-membership income together ($4.43M) they could probably still function with no members at all.

    And that's how they seem to be proceeding.
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  50. #250
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    The new VP of IMBA advocacy is Bruce Alt. So they do have someone. (Haha look at me stand up for IMBA) However IMBAs pubic tax records show that financially they have done little for national lobbying. 16K for the last two years. Now IMBA defines lobbying as pushing for cherry stems into wilderness areas and other advocacy work. However, this isn't a good enough definition for the IRS.

    IMBA is going for the low hanging fruit. Flow trails in Arkansas and selling the "2-3% of land is Wilderness so no bigs."

    In turn we have a haves and have nots of cycling. Off road cyclists in Aspen, Colorado attacking cyclists in Marin County, California for being "too aggressive." It's fine to say that there are plenty of other places to ride if you live in Arkansas or Aspen but nationally that doesn't work.

    Also this is a long term losing strategy to begin with. Mountain bikers were shut out of the BWC not by rare political circumstances but by the FACT that the IMBA was the only group opposed to a wilderness designation. Not the way to win.

    Find the audio from last weeks IMBA press conference. It does not disappoint. The IMBA even mentions the Wilderness Society as a partner.


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