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  1. #301
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  2. #302
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    Thanks for sharing -- I enjoyed it as well.

    I agree with both main points -- it is tough to watch all the abuse of trails in mountain biking videos, but this exciting riding makes for great photos and videos and sells bicycles for manufacturers.

    I also didn't realize Rampage was on private property -- I figured it was BLM land that was rented for the event.

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  4. #304
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    Great article by Ted but holy crap the negative comments @ HCN!
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Great article by Ted but holy crap the negative comments @ HCN!
    I found Vernon Felton's thoughts from his FB page on the matter of the comments on Ted's HCN OpED:

    "It's a well written piece. I am frustrated that the comment/responses to your article are based on opinion (stated as fact) as opposed to actual fact. The opponents, per standard operating procedure, simply insist that bikes are more devastating and don't actually consult the numerous studies shown. Moreover, they blindly insist that their approach to enjoying the wild is simply superior and thus should be the only type allowed. It's depressing to see such elitist and, frankly, ignorant commentary....it doesn't fill me with much hope that the old guard environmental contingent will ever really consider looking at this land use policy from an objective viewpoint."

    Or this epic response from VF after someone called Ted selfish:

    "The lack of tolerance, coming from a group of people who generally define themselves as open-minded and liberal is, well, nauseating. The traditional environmental organizations are doing an excellent job of alienating their potential support base. It boggles the mind that they fail to see this and fail to recognize the fact that they are weakening themselves at a point when the environment needs all the help and support it can get. Have they somehow failed to notice the entire Tea Party/let's build a pipeline/let's frack contingent in Washington DC? They honestly think we mountain bikers are the enemy? Face, meet palm."

  6. #306
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    Also great articles.

    I do however wonder the wisdom of (in Part 2) of including photos of the dude catching air and especially this one of skidding and ruts:


    Pinkbike so is to be expected?

    Pessimism rising...
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  8. #308
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    I always wonder if the people who "frequent" wilderness areas have jobs. Most wilderness areas are hours of driving from any urban area. This leads me to assume that if you frequent a wilderness area, you live close to it and have some sense of ownership. Much like the hand full of equestrians at Folsom Lake. Public land should have public access. 99% of us cannot take a week off work to hike 40 miles in a wilderness area. On a bicycle this can be accomplished in a weekend with just as much experience happening as a hiker. As to the argument that wilderness designation is intended to preserve the land, then NO ACCESS should be allowed to truly preserve it. I'll stop there as I need to get back to work.

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    Silent_G — The readers of "High Country News" are posting appalling, nasty comments about STC and bikes in Wilderness on the magazine's FB page. (Scroll down until you find the story, then read the comments.) You could add your observation there if you feel like it. Maybe you'll get them to think a little bit about their luxury of time.

    https://www.facebook.com/highcountrynews/

  10. #310
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    Good idea, just did!

  11. #311
    Obi
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    Quote Originally Posted by imtnbke View Post
    Silent_G — The readers of "High Country News" are posting appalling, nasty comments about STC and bikes in Wilderness on the magazine's FB page.


    You're talking about a group of people who bury their head in the sand on a FB Page who's banner image is an older guy, wearing a "State of Jefferson" beanie, with an about to be lit cigarette in his mouth. There's your sign.

    Yeah, no credibility at all just looking at their banner IMHO. Then also realize that their credibility with most of us who've been around long enough is about near-zero. Anyone else remember them trying to pander to us to get us to join the group in the mid 90's? SMH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-screen-shot-2016-03-31-6.54.29-pm.jpg  


  12. #312
    Obi
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    Kurt's on fire lately.
    "Better to be disconnecting more people from the outdoors and increasing their indifference to conservation than to cheapen the standards upon which the Wilderness Act was founded. " - This right here sums up the closed-mindedness of Wildernuts. Not only is it wrong (the WA never initially banned bicycles), but it's plain ignorant. What good are "standards" if there's growing indifference to conservation that opens the door to exploitation and extraction of resources by corporate entities? Wilderness wasn't created to establish a list of "standards", it was established for the American people as a conservation resource that can be recreated on by low-impact, human-powered means, which is why bicycles were initially permitted. By reading the commentary, it's painfully clear the anti-bike community has no legitimate argument to stand behind, which is why this article will eventually prove to be true...whether its next year or 10 years from now. And to those threatening physical violence if a bike in Wilderness is encountered - check yourself. That person on a bike might one day save your life in the backcountry.

  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post


    You're talking about a group of people who bury their head in the sand on a FB Page who's banner image is an older guy, wearing a "State of Jefferson" beanie, with an about to be lit cigarette in his mouth. There's your sign.

    Yeah, no credibility at all just looking at their banner IMHO. Then also realize that their credibility with most of us who've been around long enough is about near-zero. Anyone else remember them trying to pander to us to get us to join the group in the mid 90's? SMH
    I'm a reader of High Country News —have been for decades— and there are many like me that also ride bikes, including some of their staff. So save your stereotypes and generalizations for hating on the many other diverse groups of people that you think you are superior to. If you had any knowledge of HCN and media in general, you'd know that both the anti-bikes and pro-bikes in Wilderness op-eds in HCN over the past several weeks ARE OP-EDs (that would be an opinion editorial NOT written by their staff in case you're unclear on the meaning), not an "official" stance on the issue from HCN or their staff. The very fact that they printed Ted's op-ed in response to the anti-bike one should make it clear that they are not taking sides one way or the other. They are better at remaining neutral than many media outlets, and they are certainly not a "group..." If you bother reading the comments in response to the anti-bike op-ed from a few weeks ago, you'll see plenty of pro-bike comments on there, including a lengthy 3 part comment from yours truly. Furthermore, their banner is made up of two images from their latest cover story (including the actual cover) about the idiots that took over Malhuer. It has NOTHING to do with the editorial stance of the magazine or it's staff.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    I'm a reader of High Country News —have been for decades— and there are many like me that also ride bikes, including some of their staff. So save your stereotypes and generalizations for hating on the many other diverse groups of people that you think you are superior to. If you had any knowledge of HCN and media in general, you'd know that both the anti-bikes and pro-bikes in Wilderness op-eds in HCN over the past several weeks ARE OP-EDs (that would be an opinion editorial NOT written by their staff in case you're unclear on the meaning), not an "official" stance on the issue from HCN or their staff. The very fact that they printed Ted's op-ed in response to the anti-bike one should make it clear that they are not taking sides one way or the other. They are better at remaining neutral than many media outlets, and they are certainly not a "group..."
    Just as you are entitled to your reply (opinion) so am I. My comment stands. The fact that HCN even let that post stay, in the manner it is, without removing the nonsense and allowing the conversation to deteriorate is enough in my eyes. The fact that it is an "Opinion Editorial" isn't lost on me, hell, it's clear as day with the closing notation, but still, it's fostering disparity that doesn't need to be.


    I notice you attacked my reply, yet let imtnbke and Silent_G's go? Do you feel or believe I won't stand for my opinion or beliefs? Furthermore, I respect your right to disagree with my view, so respect my right to my opinion. Don't like what I say, don't reply or don't read it. Block Me for all I care. I've more background with this sort of access rights and struggle to keep reasonable access than many realize.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post
    I respect your right to disagree with my view, so respect my right to my opinion.
    You want to paint anyone with broad negative stereotypes because they read HCN —or simply post on their FB page— including the many MTB'ers that posted in support of Wilderness access on the FB or HCN page, then you don't deserve respect. It makes you no different than the biased, and often bigoted, idiots that stereotype MTBer's...

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    You want to paint anyone with broad negative stereotypes because they read HCN —or simply post on their FB page— including the many MTB'ers that posted in support of Wilderness access on the FB or HCN page, then you don't deserve respect. It makes you no different than the biased, and often bigoted, idiots that stereotype MTBer's...
    SMH, you don't even know me enough to make those sort of assumptions. Show me, hell show EVERYONE here proof of where I painted some of my peers here, (who I know for a fact posted in there), as you accuse me of in that color.

    Better yet, just be quiet. You don't even know my given name, Mr Sykes, but you and I have talked about Access4Bikes before and we actually saw eye to eye.

    Davey, sorry about the detour man. Back to the main topic.

    edit: Actually, I take that back, you may know my name. Let's go out for a spin on my side of the Bay and discuss why I feel like I do and why you feel like you do? Olive Branch and a Beer are there for ya man.

  17. #317
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    I like rides; and beer...

    Back to the regularly scheduled thread.

  18. #318
    Obi
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    *To be fair and clear here, by "group of people" and "bury their heads in the sand" I specifically am calling out the "Anti's". My further opinion of how certain entities/pages/etc are "click-bait" and rife with disparity stands. We can and should know the opposition's beliefs and modus operandi but there's a fine line where things begin to pour over too much and intelligent "conversation" stops. As I see it, all that's going on is people are giving the "Anti's" the ability to publicly display beliefs and intent that in most cases would get them branded the Village Idiot and their words would be promptly dismissed.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post
    *To be fair and clear here, by "group of people" and "bury their heads in the sand" I specifically am calling out the "Anti's". My further opinion of how certain entities/pages/etc are "click-bait" and rife with disparity stands. We can and should know the opposition's beliefs and modus operandi but there's a fine line where things begin to pour over too much and intelligent "conversation" stops. As I see it, all that's going on is people are giving the "Anti's" the ability to publicly display beliefs and intent that in most cases would get them branded the Village Idiot and their words would be promptly dismissed.
    Wait a minute, are you talking about room 330 at the Marin County Civic Center?

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Wait a minute, are you talking about room 330 at the Marin County Civic Center?
    More precisely, the right side of the room (while seated)...

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Wait a minute, are you talking about room 330 at the Marin County Civic Center?

    OK naawwww, just stawp it. If you want me to admit I made a bigger generalization then fine, I did. You know it applies overall though.

    *Hunter, thanks for calling me out, I did need to clarify myself.

  22. #322
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    Socks for Obi and huntermos.

    FWIW I left a handful of rebuttals to the haters at HCN's FB page; I got a couple of "likes" and ZERO arguments to my pro-bike logic. (that I saw)

    Yeah I was also kinda put off by the cover boy and his cigarette.
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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Socks for Obi and huntermos...
    All good. To be honest, I could actually use some socks right now with what I've been up to since Dec. 13th with work. Sneaking in rides to get the leg better whenever I can has made me wear holes in mine. Then there's my new set of "Tig Modifieds".

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    I'm a reader of High Country News —have been for decades— and there are many like me that also ride bikes, including some of their staff. So save your stereotypes and generalizations for hating on the many other diverse groups of people that you think you are superior to. If you had any knowledge of HCN and media in general, you'd know that both the anti-bikes and pro-bikes in Wilderness op-eds in HCN over the past several weeks ARE OP-EDs (that would be an opinion editorial NOT written by their staff in case you're unclear on the meaning), not an "official" stance on the issue from HCN or their staff. The very fact that they printed Ted's op-ed in response to the anti-bike one should make it clear that they are not taking sides one way or the other. They are better at remaining neutral than many media outlets, and they are certainly not a "group..." If you bother reading the comments in response to the anti-bike op-ed from a few weeks ago, you'll see plenty of pro-bike comments on there, including a lengthy 3 part comment from yours truly. Furthermore, their banner is made up of two images from their latest cover story (including the actual cover) about the idiots that took over Malhuer. It has NOTHING to do with the editorial stance of the magazine or it's staff.
    First, kudos for HCN to allow both sides of the issue to be covered (this has been going on for more than a decade, as far as I can tell). However, I did find it interesting that on Facebook, they shared the "no bikes" essay and let things fly from there. But after sharing Ted's article, someone at HCN commented with a link to the "no bikes" essay. Maybe they were just trying to give followers context, but I thought it was a little biased, since they didn't do that with the first article, even though they had some counterpoints in their archives to share.

  25. #325
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    A little quick research shows that HCN's FB page banner just reflects the current magazine issue which features an article on the recent standoff at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon.

    Here's an article about the smoking "State of Jefferson" lad; Neil Wampler---he's one of our own! (California boy I mean)
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  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    First, kudos for HCN to allow both sides of the issue to be covered (this has been going on for more than a decade, as far as I can tell). However, I did find it interesting that on Facebook, they shared the "no bikes" essay and let things fly from there. But after sharing Ted's article, someone at HCN commented with a link to the "no bikes" essay. Maybe they were just trying to give followers context, but I thought it was a little biased, since they didn't do that with the first article, even though they had some counterpoints in their archives to share.
    That's where I am coming from on what I said above. In my opinion there's little "neutrality" when you're handing out artillery to both sides.

  27. #327
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    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-10420260_1589421351377231_2198332948480806553_n.jpg

  28. #328
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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Axe again.
    I didn't know MV had made inroads at the SC.
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  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    I didn't know MV had made inroads at the SC.
    Somewhere there's an article about Marin Banning Everyone's Access. Gotta love April Fool's Day. Nice that someone is bringing some levity to all this.

  30. #330
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    I went to Sea Otter on Thursday. I stopped by the IMBA booth and talked with the people there and expressed my displeasure with their stance on STC. We had a good conversation and I re-upped my IMBA membership (Up the numbers). I also got some good swag. The guy gave me this as a talking point memo from IMBA. I still disagree with their stance and told the IMBA Rep that my discretionary donations are now going to STC but feel it is important to have numbers in any pro MTB organization.
    Sustainable Trail Coalition is still at it!-imba3_20160416_0001.jpg
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  31. #331
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    I will not buy IMBA membership again. They are doing us a disservice. Locally they supported MidPen money grab with nothing that we got back, only more restrictions. And they are wrong about STC.

  32. #332
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    Redundant post but I was interviewed about STC yesterday on Mountain Bike Radio:

    Sustainable Trails Coalition on Trail Cast | Mountain Bike Radio

  33. #333
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    “We live on planet Earth and there are other humans around.” Great line by Davey Simon. He says it around 21:00 in the online audio interview.

    Sustainable Trails Coalition on Trail Cast | Mountain Bike Radio

  34. #334
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    Bitterroot Forest plan gets mixed reviews | Local | ravallirepublic.com

    180 more miles of singletrack just closed to mt bikers in Montana due to new designation of National Forest as Wilderness Study Areas.


    Bitterroot Forest plan gets mixed reviews


    By PERRY BACKUS of the Ravalli Republic Updated May 12, 2016

    The mountain bike community also lost about 180 miles of single-track trail. Most of those were found in two Wilderness Study Areas, which were closed to all motorized travel in the new travel plan.

    “We are all pretty depressed,” said Lance Pysher of Bitterroot Backcountry Cyclists. “We knew something like this was coming, but we’re still kind of in shock. It’s real now.”

    The backcountry cyclists have spent years clearing and maintaining trails in the Blue Joint and Sapphire wilderness study areas that are now off limits to all wheeled travel.

    Pysher said the decision to close the two WSAs to mountain bike use flies in the face of information gathered by the Forest Service and others about the amount of actual use of each area.

    Last year, Pysher said he rode every single trail in both of the WSAs.

    “I saw more bears than I saw people,” he said. “I didn’t see a single person while riding four weekends in the Blue Joint…I saw zero people in the Sapphires.”

    He did see two bears.

    In 2009, the Wilderness Institute did a survey in the two WSAs. After hiking “pretty much” every trail, they counted two mountain bikers and four hikers, he said.

    “The Forest Service just can’t show any evidence that we’re having any impact to solitude,” he said.

    While it’s true that there are other areas for mountain biking on the national forest, Pysher said the trails in the two WSAs provide the kind of single-track experience that those in the mountain biking community seek.

    In most other areas, bikers are required to ride roads to access sections of single-track trail, he said.

    “That’s not what most mountain bikers visualize,” he said. “Roads are too wide and you don’t get that intimate feel that you do on a trail.”

    Both the mountain bike and off road users organizations said they are looking into options to challenge the plan.

  35. #335
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    Says it all for me:

    Last year, Pysher said he rode every single trail in both of the WSAs.

    “I saw more bears than I saw people,” he said. “I didn’t see a single person while riding four weekends in the Blue Joint…I saw zero people in the Sapphires.”

    He did see two bears.

    In 2009, the Wilderness Institute did a survey in the two WSAs. After hiking “pretty much” every trail, they counted two mountain bikers and four hikers, he said.

    “The Forest Service just can’t show any evidence that we’re having any impact to solitude,” he said.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post

    “The Forest Service just can’t show any evidence that we’re having any impact to solitude,” he said.
    They need to investigate more into the impact on the
    Elder-Yellowbellied-Hohas.

    They seem the most affected by all of this.
    Last edited by Obi; 05-15-2016 at 08:01 PM.

  37. #337
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    Just absorb this. The HOHA's have caught wind of ebikes. Please share this (and some choice words) with the manufacturers of ebikes.

    "Final Nail in Coffin for Mountain-Biking-in-Wilderness Argument"

    https://www.facebook.com/FriendsofAl...53773119181843

    "...there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport..." --Wilderness Act of 1964

    In recent months, some within the mountain biking community have redoubled their efforts to misrepresent, redefine, and even work toward legislatively amending the Wilderness Act of 1964 in order to kick down the barn door and allow mountain bikes to for the first time ever swarm over the quiet, peaceful hiking-only trails of the protected wilderness areas in America's National Wilderness Preservation System.

    What they conveniently won't readily tell you is that the manufacture of mountain bikes with hidden electric motors is rapidly growing! If motorized mountain bikes really catch on, then how would wilderness managers know if the bikes are motorized or not without inspecting every single bike?

    So, not only does the Wilderness Act prohibit bicycles to begin with by virtue of the fact that they’re a mechanized use, if some or even a lot of them are going to be motorized too then that’s a double-whammy against them. This is well beyond a slippery slope.
    E-Bikes -- Fad or Future?

    "We definitely saw a lot of e-bikes popping up. We even saw the first e-bike mountain bike race. They look like mountain bikes, but with an electric assist motor."

    "I could see where this [many mountain bikes being motorized] could be a big change eventually."

    "I do see us starting to follow the same trends that have happened in Europe. In the last five years the mountain bike scene has really taken off across Europe. We're starting to see those same kinds of indicators here in the U.S."

    "We're working to gain more trail access for e-mountain bikers…and give them access to trails that they may not have had access to before."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk5ZkY2n_sY

  38. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Just absorb this. The HOHA's have caught wind of ebikes. Please share this (and some choice words) with the manufacturers of ebikes.

    "Final Nail in Coffin for Mountain-Biking-in-Wilderness Argument"
    The industry push on e-bikes couldn't have come at a worse time in regards to trying to gain back bicycle access to Wilderness areas.

    Specialized supports IMBA and IMBA doesn't support new Wilderness access legislation.

    Coincidence?

    Follow the money.
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  39. #339
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    AFAIK e-bikes have been barred from public land in Marin unless you hold an ADA placard.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  40. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    The industry push on e-bikes couldn't have come at a worse time in regards to trying to gain back bicycle access to Wilderness areas.
    Yup.

    Now these raving anti-bike lunatics are jumping on the ebike threat.

    https://www.facebook.com/wildernessw...41821072563918

    "Anyone notice that a professional cyclist recently got caught cheating at the Cyclocross World Championships after racing a bike that had an electric-assist MOTOR HIDDEN IN THE FRAME?! See: Cheating cyclist busted with hidden motor in bike - Business Insider

    That got us thinking about our campaign to head off efforts by some mountain bikers to open protected Wilderness areas to their machines.

    For the last half century, the Wilderness Act has protected Wilderness from mechanization and mechanical transport. That’s why a few months ago we sent Congress this letter (Wilderness Community Unites to Keep Bike Ban in Wilderness) signed by over 100 conservation, wilderness and wildlife groups from around the country with one simple message: Keep Bikes Out of Wilderness!

    Circling back to the fall-out from the cheating at the Cyclocross World Championships, some people are even claiming that bikes with electric engines aren't "motor vehicles." Say what?!?

    But can you see where this is going if we end up opening up America's protected Wilderness areas to bicycles?

    For a demonstration of just how concealed some of these electric-assist motors in bicycles can be, Greg LeMond, the only American to win the Tour de France (because a certain someone was stripped of 7 titles for cheating) shows how one version of a bike motor works in this video.

    Mountain bikes have their place, but that place is not inside Wilderness. At a time when Wilderness and wildlife are under increasing pressures from increasing populations, growing mechanization, and a rapidly changing climate, the last thing Wilderness needs is to be invaded by mountain bikes and other machines."


    I can only imagine the hi-fives Wildernuts are giving each other as they giggle with delight over the absolute stupidity of the cycling industry

  41. #341
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    No Motorized devices? Hope the HOHA's also rally to ban these devices when they become more mainstream and assist the elderly to hike. And I do support banning ebikes except for ADA use in wilderness areas. Of course we all know that the anti-bikes just latched on this as an opportune reason to advance their cause.

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  42. #342
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    It is not just mountain bikers who are victims of unnecessary exclusions.

    From the upcoming NA navigation racing championship:

    VENUE INFO

    The Sierra Nevada mountains of California are world famous for their beauty and wildness. However, almost all of the upper elevations (High Sierra) is federally designated Wilderness, and therefore forbidden for organized group events or races. We have identified one of the last remaining large, permittable regions above 7000 feet, and are excited to bring you the 2016 North American Rogaine Championships in this dramatic venue! The race area has moderate undergrowth and steepness, by California standards, and is large enough that top 24-hour teams will find it difficult to clear the course.

    ....
    There is a road network, although some of the smaller-use roads may not be well maintained or mapped.
    .....
    There is currently legislation in progress that would convert around half of the terrain for this race into Wilderness designation, rendering it inaccessible for future racing. The timeline for this decision and change is the next 2 to 5 years. Come race in the Sierras while you can! If you'd like to take action to attempt to retain the ability to produce group events in this area, before or after the race, contact the event directors.

  43. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It is not just mountain bikers who are victims of unnecessary exclusions.

    From the upcoming NA navigation racing championship:
    Isn't this just a bunch of people trying to navigate? This seems overly restrictive to not allow them the usage. There are a lot of non wilderness areas above 7,000 feet by the way if you leave the crowds of Tahoe too. Most of the Sierra is unused.

  44. #344
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    It should be noted that the blanket ban on competitive events in Wilderness is.... negotiable. Western States 100 and the Tevis Cup continue to race through Granite Chief Wilderness. There are others elsewhere too. Just takes a good attorney and help from congressional representatives. Hmmm... sounds like STC.

    http://www.runnersworld.com/trail-ra...g-and-politics

  45. #345
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    The bill has been introduced in the U.S. Senate:

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...nate-bill/3205

  46. #346
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    Bring it!
    "There's two kinds of people in this world - Walkers and Talkers." Which one are you?

  47. #347
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    http://www.sustainabletrailscoalitio...ness-areas-act


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  48. #348
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    Woo hoo!

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  49. #349
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    The bill has been referred to the Senate Committe for Energy and Natural Resources.
    These are the folks to send your letters to:
    Members - About - U.S. Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources

  50. #350
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    Senator Lee's announcement and link to the bill:

    http://www.lee.senate.gov/public/ind...A-CDCE84E5DF79

  51. #351
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    Great news!
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  52. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Looks pretty good to me at-a-glance; it will be interesting to see how the "anti's" comment.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  53. #353
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    Introducing a bill is one thing -- getting it passed is another.

    However, I am happy to see that the cause is continuing, and I'm cautiously optimistic.....

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    Looks pretty good to me at-a-glance; it will be interesting to see how the "anti's" comment.
    The anti's thus far (besides the obvious hatred of bikes and normal complaints) seem to be losing it over chainsaws. Funny they don't realize that chainsaws have always been permissible in Wilderness... on a case-by-case basis. The other anti's include mt. bikers who dislike and don't trust the bill's sponsors, and think this is all a trap those two came up with to sell Wilderness lands to the highest bidder. Hopefully other Senators step up once congress returns from recess... which is why it is so important to get letters written to them.

  55. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by California_Dave View Post
    Introducing a bill is one thing -- getting it passed is another.

    However, I am happy to see that the cause is continuing, and I'm cautiously optimistic.....
    Getting any legislation passed in Congress is an uphill battle, so STC will need everyone to take two minutes to write their senators and member of Congress in support of the bill. There's a page on the STC website that shows how to do this quickly and easily, and suggests some things to say.

    How to Help ? Sustainable Trails Coalition

    This is really, really important! Please do it.

  56. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    The anti's thus far (besides the obvious hatred of bikes and normal complaints) seem to be losing it over chainsaws. Funny they don't realize that chainsaws have always been permissible in Wilderness... on a case-by-case basis. The other anti's include mt. bikers who dislike and don't trust the bill's sponsors, and think this is all a trap those two came up with to sell Wilderness lands to the highest bidder. Hopefully other Senators step up once congress returns from recess... which is why it is so important to get letters written to them.
    Smart move adding the chainsaws. Ok ok fine, we can remove the chainsaws if it will make you guys happy
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  57. #357
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    Gave some dough to keep up the good fight and sent my letter to Rep Swalwell.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  58. #358
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    Thank you, Zorg!

  59. #359
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    Job well done. Cheers to all of you. Every time people talk about piles of difficulties and you guys show another step forward.

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    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  61. #361
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    Upset IMBA: we don't work for mtn bikers, we work for IMBA!

    However, IMBA is also on record with the strong belief that amending the Wilderness Act comes not only with a risk of unintended consequences, especially political consequences and further polarization of the stewardship and outdoor recreation community, and is unnecessary to preserve mountain bike access while also achieving landscape level conservation.
    I cannot help but read that as:
    If IMBA supports this, the Sierra Club won't invite me to their holiday parties any more.

  62. #362
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    The local SC group here is coming out against mountain biking, typical, mountain bike groups having to kiss ass to show land managers we are not a bunch of aholes and the environmental groups selling us out.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  63. #363
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    With The New York Times covering the bill/issue, and tons more news outlets picking up the Times' story, STC continues to build momentum!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/us...ns-debate.html

    Let's hope the additional media attention starts to bring in additional dollars cause STC is running out of $.

  64. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    With The New York Times covering the bill/issue, and tons more news outlets picking up the Times' story, STC continues to build momentum!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/20/us...ns-debate.html

    Let's hope the additional media attention starts to bring in additional dollars cause STC is running out of $.
    This sounds downright Trumpian.

    Support the cause, not sure about this messaging.

  65. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfForumsPast View Post
    This sounds downright Trumpian.

    Support the cause, not sure about this messaging.




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  66. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    How ironic since your lame meme instigated Godwin's law.

    I'm not surprised by your lack of critical thinking though. It's par for the course at this point.

  67. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfForumsPast View Post
    How ironic since your lame meme instigated Godwin's law.

    I'm not surprised by your lack of critical thinking though. It's par for the course at this point.




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  68. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Posting another lame meme does not change the fact that you are the first person to invoke Hitler and trigger Godwin.

    Are you really this stupid in real life Davey or is this just a shtick that you play out on MTBR so normal folks can have a laugh at your expense?

  69. #369
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    Seriously, Pete (or someone who knows you really well)... please explain why nobody -- even people who spend waaaay too much time trying to make things good for mountain biking -- why nobody can live up to your standards of "critical thinking" and intellect without getting ripped by you. Who do you admire in mountain bike "advocacy"?

    I love when you dress down HOHA's on FB, but most of your friendly fire on MTBR just makes me scratch my head and leads me to believe you have issues a person like me can't quite comprehend. I must lack critical thinking!!

    Just like when I get into it with Randy Welch, I await your insult...



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  70. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfForumsPast View Post
    Posting another lame meme does not change the fact that you are the first person to invoke Hitler and trigger Godwin.

    Are you really this stupid in real life Davey or is this just a shtick that you play out on MTBR so normal folks can have a laugh at your expense?
    I just think it's great I can now compare Trump and Hitler.

    I can see how that would make you upset considering you're a total piece of crap that is only in his current position because of a trust fund as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Seriously, Pete (or someone who knows you really well)... please explain why nobody -- even people who spend waaaay too much time trying to make things good for mountain biking -- why nobody can live up to your standards of "critical thinking" and intellect without getting ripped by you. Who do you admire in mountain bike "advocacy"?

    I love when you dress down HOHA's on FB, but most of your friendly fire on MTBR just makes me scratch my head and leads me to believe you have issues a person like me can't quite comprehend. I must lack critical thinking!!

    Just like when I get into it with Randy Welch, I await your insult...



    Love ya.
    Davey's always been a whiner and his juvenile attempts at MTB community shaming going back to the flow trail construction were, and are, laughable. When coupled with his propensity to jump to conclusions and struggles with the truth, he posts a bunch of really dumb things.

    Sometimes I discuss those things.

    "nobody can live up to your standards of "critical thinking" and intellect " - simply not true.

  72. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I can see how that would make you upset considering you're a total piece of crap that is only in his current position because of a trust fund as well.
    "Current position" ? "Trust fund" ? Trump supporter?

    Wow, there is a whole bunch more crazy going on in your head that I thought.

    Please send me info abut this trust fund. I could really use it right now given that as of yesterday I have two kids in college.

  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfForumsPast View Post
    This sounds downright Trumpian.
    Well, as long as it is not Clintonian. But that depends on the definition of what is is.

    But back on the topic, I am glad to see that STC generated more mainstream coverage of the problem than IMBA did in years and years.

  74. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Well, as long as it is not Clintonian. But that depends on the definition of what is is.

    But back on the topic, I am glad to see that STC generated more mainstream coverage of the problem than IMBA did in years and years.
    More than IMBA ever!

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  75. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    More than IMBA ever!
    Judging from many of my friends, most people are even unaware such idiotic restrictions do exist. "You can't ride a bicycle on a dirt road? Really? Why?".. "You can't use a wheelbarrow to maintain trail? Are you serious?".

  76. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Judging from many of my friends, most people are even unaware such idiotic restrictions do exist. "You can't ride a bicycle on a dirt road? Really? Why?".. "You can't use a wheelbarrow to maintain trail? Are you serious?".
    The most important work STC has done is make people aware of these issues...


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  77. #377
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    Some nice recognition for Ted and the STC

    2016 Pinkbike Awards - Advocacy of the Year Winner - Pinkbike

  78. #378
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    Great work and very good recognition from the industry!

    p.s. I also sent some $$$.

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Some nice recognition for Ted and the STC

    2016 Pinkbike Awards - Advocacy of the Year Winner - Pinkbike

  79. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkMass View Post
    Great work and very good recognition from the industry!

    p.s. I also sent some $$$.
    Cheers!


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  80. #380
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    ^Definite props for Davey and Mr. Stroll. You don't make friends changing the status quo. Getting the cold shoulder's one thing, but now my feet are freezing.


    So, where's my socks FC? Heeheehee. (PM Me, I'm serious, Mrs.Obi and I need new MTBR Sox.)

  81. #381
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    Buy a t-shirt and keep this moving forward! Some good news should be announced soon but there is still political work to be done in the Beltway.

    I want a t-shirt -- Sustainable Trails Coalition

  82. #382
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    So did S.3205 die in committee or is it still under consideration?

  83. #383
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    My understanding is everything proposed by the 114th congress expired with the beginning of the 115th congress. So the bill needs to be reintroduced... which should happen fairly soon in both the Senate and the House.

  84. #384
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    Long video, but a good one skip towards the last part, dude rides his bike over Tioga pass only to get a ticket cause apparently the road turns to wilderness in the winter, no signs saying no bikes either. Rangers notice his tracks and hunt him down and he gets a $125 dollar ticket, at least it's cheaper than a $400 dollar mid-pen ticket

    Go to about 50 minutes and 40 seconds in
    https://youtu.be/q5ivbYvq9WU

  85. #385
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    Is that Iohan G.'s video? Awesome stuff. I asked him directly about it too and he said the ticket was dismissed but I am skeptical about the legality of "Wilderness in winter" for a road that is outside of the Wilderness boundary, but is surrounded on both sides by the boundary. Maybe it's just a "no motors in winter" to keep the snowmobiles out that morphed into a "Wilderness" mentality because no one in their right mind would take a bike in there in the winter, right?

  86. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    My understanding is everything proposed by the 114th congress expired with the beginning of the 115th congress. So the bill needs to be reintroduced... which should happen fairly soon in both the Senate and the House.
    Thanks, my definitive resource on legislature is ambiguous on what happens when a session ends and a bill is still in committee.

  87. #387
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    Senator Mike Lee has a lot more clout now that you-know-who lost the election.

  88. #388
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    Honestly, the STC bill has a much greater likelihood of success now that there is a Republican President, Senate and House. May be one of the good things that will come of this craziness.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  89. #389
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    There's a great place for armchair quarterbacks...it's in armchair football.
    Most people who spout off on forums do nothing but spout off on forums.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

  90. #390
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    speaking of which be sure to send in a donation to STC and help keep the dream alive. No armchair QBing!


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  91. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    speaking of which be sure to send in a donation to STC and help keep the dream alive. No armchair QBing!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I strongly agree with that. I've put my money where my mouth is and 10x'd it with time and effort.
    Support local trail-building: www.mbosc.org
    Help our most vulnerable population: www.goodkarmabikes.org

  92. #392
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    Tee shirts

    A direct link to the STC fundraiser tees showed up via FB :

    www.booster.com/sustainabletrailscoalition

    (I bought one of each color; gifts!)
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  93. #393
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    I donated again.

  94. #394
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    Criteria is very simple. Anywhere where it is appropriate for visitors to ride on a horse or a mule, it should be appropriate and preferable to ride on a bike.
    And the purpose of preservation should be sustainable enjoyment not exclusion, but for a few very restricted cases.
    Will be wearing my STC fundraiser tshirt to work today. Got two. And donated. And so should you.

  95. #395
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    Did not mean to bump the thread. I thought I was responding to a long bunch of posts?

  96. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Did not mean to bump the thread. I thought I was responding to a long bunch of posts?
    Thanks for supporting STC. Maybe you picked the wrong thread.


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    I got my STC shirt in the mail a couple months ago. I'm kind of a t-shirt snob--and it's really nice.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk (I'm looking at you, MidPen).

  98. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    I got my STC shirt in the mail a couple months ago. I'm kind of a t-shirt snob--and it's really nice.
    Glad you like it. Everyone should have one!


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  99. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Glad you like it. Everyone should have one!


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    Wearing my STC shirt right now. Not only does it rep the efforts of the fine folks at STC, but it is a real shirt made out of actual fabric. So many shirts these days are almost-see-through barely-there tissue.

    What I'm saying is you all should buy this shirt. And contribute to STC.
    This is no time for levity. - Oliver Hardy

  100. #400
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    Just bought 2 shirts! Looking forward to wearing them......

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