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  1. #1
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    Stop creating strava segments on non-sanctioned trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    OMFG. HK!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!?

    Noboday cares that you can ride fast on a trail that's off the map. Please just don't do it.

    Go 9ers.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  2. #2
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Haha, people are their own worst enemy.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  3. #3
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    Click "Private"

    On Strava, Click "Private" before you save your ride, right?

    I always do that every time anyway, what's the point about showing off?!

  4. #4
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    Is there a way to find out who sets up segments!? I think if you set up a segment, you should have your name next to it so you can't hide from your Fn stupidity.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  5. #5
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    I get your frustration but, it's going to happen. Probably not going to reach your target audience here. Besides, mtbr isn't exactly a center of logic. On the other hand, just because isn't on strava doesn't mean it's " secret".

  6. #6
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    I agree that its dumb, but there have been illegal segments up for years and nothing has come of it... I'm sure the land managers know about 90% of these "secret" trails, but don't have time and resources to do anything about it. Its rare to even hear about someone getting a ticket. Not sure its a huge deal either way, but I could be off..

    Am I on track with this or has anyone had a different experience?

  7. #7
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    Re: Stop creating strava segments on non-sanctioned trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Got it. Thanks. Will stop doing that.


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    Are we putting air in the tires today?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by primordial View Post
    On Strava, Click "Private" before you save your ride, right?

    I always do that every time anyway, what's the point about showing off?!
    This is not about 'showing off'; I like to think of it as 'sharing data'. And it can be valuable, motivational etc. Riding with buddies and comparing how you did on certain climbs whether against each other or against yourself. As a personal example, after yesterday's ride, my buddy uploaded his gps results (I was using the Android App) only to find strava showed him with one less mile but ~400 more feet of climbing (on the same ride)...so I am going with his results.
    Recently I did a big ride (solo) that I saw someone else here on the norcal forum had done on Strava. I would not have been able to string everything together if he had not shared his ride. So ya see, sharing is a good thing.

    The OP is not concerned with sharing data...the concern is 'showing off' riding illegal trails. Especially when the well funded and well organized (thus influential) horse and hike lobby are looking for reasons to keep mountain bikes off certain trails and they don't need more justification (and yes, they know we hang out here and talk about stuff). Maybe that is why some shared trails have guys with radar guns pointed at mtb'ers and some oft-used 'illegal' trails have guys waiting to write mtb'ers tickets.

  9. #9
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    Yep, it is your duty to go into your Strava account and make private all the illegal segments you created, or have ridden. Also, flag to Strava any segments that are illegal.

    I have heard too many times that land managers are wondering how they received this gift that has fallen from the sky...

  10. #10
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    Well there is definitely a spike in law enforcement activity on Marin public lands in the last 6 months, especially foot patrols. While its only speculation, they seem to be well attuned to the most popular routes with the discovery of strava over the last year. Hopefully it will mellow out, but the local rangers seem to be digging their heels in for a prolonged fight.

  11. #11
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    Never post anything on the Internet that you would not want to read out loud in a court of law.

    News flash, the people that hate mtn biking have figured out how to use Google. Go look at the Marin IJ website for recent comments.

  12. #12
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevXR View Post
    Never post anything on the Internet that you would not want to read out loud in a court of law.

    News flash, the people that hate mtn biking have figured out how to use Google. Go look at the Marin IJ website for recent comments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    Well there is definitely a spike in law enforcement activity on Marin public lands in the last 6 months, especially foot patrols. While its only speculation, they seem to be well attuned to the most popular routes with the discovery of strava over the last year. Hopefully it will mellow out, but the local rangers seem to be digging their heels in for a prolonged fight.
    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Yep, it is your duty to go into your Strava account and make private all the illegal segments you created, or have ridden. Also, flag to Strava any segments that are illegal.

    I have heard too many times that land managers are wondering how they received this gift that has fallen from the sky...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel Mot View Post
    I get your frustration but, it's going to happen. Probably not going to reach your target audience here. Besides, mtbr isn't exactly a center of logic. On the other hand, just because isn't on strava doesn't mean it's " secret".
    I've been really worried about this for about 2 years or more. Land managers and the anti bike crowd are now fully aware. Rumors of a secret trail are one thing. GPS plots that a hater can pull up at a computer are another. Strava is the worst thing that has happened to mountain biking in ages. Sharing data is OK as long as it is done discretely. Strava was the wrong medium, the platform should have been a lot more discrete. There was a time believe it or not where you had to be trusted to learn of a new trail. Those days are over I guess.

    Apparently SAR (search and rescue) Marin has the best map. Nearly every social trail is on it. Still trying to get my hands on one.

  13. #13
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    I thought I should share Strava's feeble response and attempt to sweep this under the carpet. I have sent numerous messages over the last 5 weeks without a peep from them. I understand this is not the same as copyright infringement, but is there not any type of law or reg that would require them to remove and attempt to block repeat illegal and hazardous segments? Clearly the current protocol is about effective as Mega Uploads attempts to remove illegal content.

    From strava, may 2012

    This is certainly part of a larger concern over private lands and unsanctioned trails, and we are aware of the issues and discussing this internally. Unfortunately, we do not have specific plans in place currently to address these issues.

    Strava does not have a way to verify property boundaries. You do have the ability to leave a comment on a segment or ride if you have information that you wish to share with a user who has ridden a specific segment.

    The Hazardous flag was *not* designed for issues around private lands or trail systems, so using this feature to address this issue will of course be unsatisfying. The Hazardous flag is meant to address hazards that may be present in the environment only.

    I hope this information is helpful to you, and we appreciate you voicing your concerns here.

    Best,
    Elle
    Strava Support Team

  14. #14
    middle ring single track
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    Trail location is only...

    ...part of the problem. IMHO speed and time-of-day data are equally damaging to the public's image of MTB'ing. Anytime an online GPS "sharing" website enables the posting of how the file was created (hike, bike, running, snowshoe and whatever) it simplifies the task of anybody looking for data to use against trail access of a particular user group. Strava is just the worst (or best depending...) in this regard. (Disclosure; I'm a satisfied Strava user) We should like-wise "privatize" our segments if we are busting the sanctioned speed limits (or time of day). Of course I suppose that non-sanctioned trails don't have speed limits...

    I've heard it suggested that if we poach an area we should just change the type of activity from "biking" to "hiking" or "running"; we might fool some interlopers but not all---ever see a hiker (or runner) consistently traverse DH segments at 20+ MPH?

    Of course Strava could easily put an end to this by requiring the listing of speed limits and "hours open" when a segment is created; then those rides which bust the limits would automatically be privatized.

    We should discuss the "civil disobedience" (refusing to sit in the back of the bus) concept of posting our scofflaw activities in another thread. I know many bikers feel this is justification for publicizing their wayward adventures. Constitutional law anyone???
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  15. #15
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    Yep, this info can definitely be used against us. One of the best coastal trails in Orange County was closed down a few years ago, and there was an abundance of poaching evidence on Geoladders (pre-Strava).

    I've also heard of some inland trails being closed after they were discovered--with a little help from Strava.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 02-20-2013 at 01:20 PM.
    Why?

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  16. #16
    I just wanna go fast...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    I thought I should share Strava's feeble response and attempt to sweep this under the carpet. I have sent numerous messages over the last 5 weeks without a peep from them. I understand this is not the same as copyright infringement, but is there not any type of law or reg that would require them to remove and attempt to block repeat illegal and hazardous segments? Clearly the current protocol is about effective as Mega Uploads attempts to remove illegal content.

    From strava, may 2012

    This is certainly part of a larger concern over private lands and unsanctioned trails, and we are aware of the issues and discussing this internally. Unfortunately, we do not have specific plans in place currently to address these issues.

    Strava does not have a way to verify property boundaries. You do have the ability to leave a comment on a segment or ride if you have information that you wish to share with a user who has ridden a specific segment.

    The Hazardous flag was *not* designed for issues around private lands or trail systems, so using this feature to address this issue will of course be unsatisfying. The Hazardous flag is meant to address hazards that may be present in the environment only.

    I hope this information is helpful to you, and we appreciate you voicing your concerns here.

    Best,
    Elle
    Strava Support Team
    Hating on strava for people posting illegal trail segments is like hating on mountain bike manufactures for people riding illegal trail segments. It's a tool. Unfortunately it's a tool that can be used by tools.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    Hating on strava for people posting illegal trail segments is like hating on mountain bike manufactures for people riding illegal trail segments. It's a tool. Unfortunately it's a tool that can be used by tools.
    What a load of crap
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Yep, this info can definitely be used against us. One of the best coastal trails in Orange County was closed down a few years ago, and there was an abundance of poaching evidence on Geoladders (pre-Strava).
    This is the first time I have heard anything specific when complaining about strava(with respect to trail access). I think the golden rule for strava haters is be as vague as possible because there is no evidence that strava has had a real impact on trail access. If I'm wrong here please let me know (with some specific examples)

    With this particular trail: I presume it was hiker only and was being poached by bikers who were using some prestrava software which alerted the land managers to the problem so they closed the trail for everyone?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    What a load of crap
    If you dont mind me asking:

    Which trails were shut down because of strava?

    What do you think should be done about it?

  20. #20
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    Does Strava still auto-create segments? Also, marking the rides private doesn't do much because if it's auto-created it happens before you can edit your ride. Strava is pretty annoying that you have to edit to make things private. Other tools don't do that.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    This is the first time I have heard anything specific when complaining about strava(with respect to trail access). I think the golden rule for strava haters is be as vague as possible because there is no evidence that strava has had a real impact on trail access. If I'm wrong here please let me know (with some specific examples)

    With this particular trail: I presume it was hiker only and was being poached by bikers who were using some prestrava software which alerted the land managers to the problem so they closed the trail for everyone?
    This is a mountain bike only trail built by a mountain biker and was being kept low key. Then some jack hole made a segment. When you make a segment, this gets announced to everyone who follows you so now rather than keeping a good thing low key, you have announced to a wide network of people that a cool secret trail exists and, by the way, here it is everyone. I am not harking on Strava but rather the idiots who think it's cool to announce these trails for the sake of looking macho.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  22. #22
    Axe
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    While I completely agree with the general premise of this thread... I have discovered a number of great trails by going over mtbguru when it was still functioning and Strava. I do not have other means to find out as I usually do not have time to hook up with the right people to show me.. Maybe some less public way of sharing some gpx tracks would be useful to me..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    This is a mountain bike only trail built by a mountain biker and was being kept low key. Then some jack hole made a segment. When you make a segment, this gets announced to everyone who follows you so now rather than keeping a good thing low key, you have announced to a wide network of people that a cool secret trail exists and, by the way, here it is everyone. I am not harking on Strava but rather the idiots who think it's cool to announce these trails for the sake of looking macho.
    I see your point and if that segment gets closed down that would really suck. What I'm wondering is if it will get closed down, I'm thinking the attention it draws won't provoke any action. Like I said I could be totally off, but I think it raises more of a stink on message boards that it actually alerts land managers to poaching.

    I'm not saying go strava illegal trails, I think that's a bad idea. I'm thinking this might be much ado about nothing because no one ever actually says "I no longer ride here because of strava." They only say, "Strava is so stupid."

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    With this particular trail: I presume it was hiker only and was being poached by bikers who were using some prestrava software which alerted the land managers to the problem so they closed the trail for everyone?
    It was strictly a poach trail in El Morro State Park. Mtb-ers called it a "historic" trail, because it pre-dated the park, but it wasn't listed on the initial map of the park for various reasons (wildlife corridor, arch site). I volunteered for the park--as well as a county park--and the rangers routinely cited online biking sites as evidence of poaching and justification of trail closures. One park in OC even closed the entire park to cyclists for a few months for poaching.
    Why?

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    I see your point and if that segment gets closed down that would really suck. What I'm wondering is if it will get closed down, I'm thinking the attention it draws won't provoke any action. Like I said I could be totally off, but I think it raises more of a stink on message boards that it actually alerts land managers to poaching.

    I'm not saying go strava illegal trails, I think that's a bad idea. I'm thinking this might be much ado about nothing because no one ever actually says "I no longer ride here because of strava." They only say, "Strava is so stupid."
    Yeah, I don't know but if the segments create a surge in traffic because everyone wants to go ride the new trail, it starts to get a lot of attention. Friends tell their friends, exits and entrances get blown out, people see others exit the trail and scout, sweet virgin trail gets a little more blown out faster, yadda yadda yadda.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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