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  1. #51
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    I'm amazed by the amount of segments on Strava. Look at Manhatten, all those messengers creat segments for their "races".

    I get home from a spirited "trail run", and find all sorts of segments that are off limits to bikes. No, I don't ever ride my bike on these segments, only go for fast trail runs...
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  2. #52
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    A ride in a forest, and knowone will be in your way? That my friend would be a x2!
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  3. #53
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    I don't see it as a tool, but as a facility.

    An analogy: any clown can get on a bike and do 35 mph but few can do it well without putting self or others in danger. You can't blame the bike, or its makers.

    The absolute rightness or wrongness of being on unsanctioned trails, in the view of many, depends upon what is seen as a reaction to an arbitrary philosophy of access, how that paradigm is regarded. What is being negotiated is the cost to the group as a whole.

    Strava provides a facility of focus for event efforts utilizing the the internet as a tool. Strava contrives a circumstance seeking only to tap into interest and gathering and publishing information. They profit by that interest and pay no price for its consequences. Must be nice.

    The responsibility we can express lies within the mtb culture and what you are reading in the thread is the culture's attempt to manage thoughtless riders. Note that thoughtlessness is not considered in terms transgressing an arbitrary rule but in the consequences to the greater mtb community, when we are revealed as over the boundary by those who don't want us around, or when we are engaged by those in authority.
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  4. #54
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    Stop creating strava segments on non-sanctioned trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Tire tracks on a trail could be considered evidence of illegal activity happening.

    It just blows my mind that riding a bicycle on trails carved into Earth by man is a crime.
    But you can't access that from your public bike hate station, uh I mean computer.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    could not agree more - 100% completely and totally ridiculous that any user thinks their way to recreate (in an environmentally and responsible fashion) is the only way.

    Unfortunately, as you are keenly aware, there is a highly vocal/shrill/maniacal group of (mostly) aging NIMBY's who desperately cling to the notion that nature is only to be traversed their way, or through a coffee table book.

    This ideological fallacy is coming to an end as an aging user group dies and a newer generation comes into play....a generation that knows the benefits of opening up the outdoors to share, enjoy and get healthy...

    The harder authorities try to come down the more resistance will be met - we are not a buncha teenage coffee shop workers....we are professional adults raising families who are making time to get organized and project a collective voice.

    Riding unsanctioned trails (responsibly/courteously), combined with the efforts of advocacy groups to legally gain more access is the way to go IMO - there is no way the old guard will ever budge if it is a single pronged approach....and their threats of taking away more access is old and tired..

    They have already taken too much, and given back virtually nothing....we have nothing to lose.


    yah, it's Monday and I'm ornery
    I agree to a certain extent but at the same time I fail to see how creating and recording activity on non-sanctioned trails can result in anything positive.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    I agree to a certain extent but at the same time I fail to see how creating and recording activity on non-sanctioned trails can result in anything positive.
    It's a weird scenario fer sure.

    In my neck of the woods the 'volunteer trails' trails are used regularly and consistently (since '84) and State Parks is 'allowing' multi-use...

    Other rangers have inquired as how to stop people from accessing non-sanctioned trails - the only answer is to make them legal....they are beginning to realize that

    I was at a City Meeting about a system of proposed trails (hiking/trail running only for good reason) when Dave Sanguenetti* (sp) stated that the current use is all illegal, and the only way to stop the illegal use was to legalize...

    Once a trail system has been opened up activity becomes predictable and user groups tend to police each other...and illegal trail building subsides..

    To add when a system is utilized other illegal activities are diminished (homeless encampments/pot farms/etc)..and MTB'rs cover way more ground (kinda like passively patrolling). U-Conn is a prime example as well as the new Emma McCreary(sp) trail through Pogonip will prove to be.

    Now add that to how fast information travels currently...In the 90's it was basically word of mouth..

    In the 2000's you need $$ GPS equipment and some know how to share files/tracks...Currently all you need is a Smart Phone, a free App and a 5 years olds knowledge to distribute this info.

    Nothing is going to stem the flow of information....it is impossible to go back.

    Focus should be on responsible/environmentally friendly riding in a courteous manner.....Stepping off your bike for a hiker instead of passing from 12" away 5mph faster goes a long long way IME (as an example).

    this is all just my opinion...and it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.




    *Dave Sanguenetti is the Operations Manager for MipdPen....and a pretty nice guy.


    EDIT: I also realize this posting of rides/trails fundamentally kills the aspect of 'local' trails....it bugs me too, but I have no answers as how to stop it....info travels so freaking fast...
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    OMFG. HK!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!?

    Noboday cares that you can ride fast on a trail that's off the map. Please just don't do it.
    BTW, instead of/in addition to posting this on MTBR, you can comment on the person's ride in Strava. Let the person(s) know directly how you feel and ask them to remove it. Do it for everyone that's on the segment. If they don't, look up some of their other rides and see if you can find where they live (i.e. start rides from frequently), then go over and leave a flaming bag of dog doo on their doorstep

  8. #58
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    Stop creating strava segments on non-sanctioned trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
    BTW, instead of/in addition to posting this on MTBR, you can comment on the person's ride in Strava. Let the person(s) know directly how you feel and ask them to remove it. Do it for everyone that's on the segment. If they don't, look up some of their other rides and see if you can find where they live (i.e. start rides from frequently), then go over and leave a flaming bag of dog doo on their doorstep
    Just wait until I get that trust fund!

  9. #59
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    This is a great thread with awesome comments with the MTB community. I understand the initial beef of the Thread master in saying that it is a bonehead move to post an illegal trail on Strava. In comparison, I feel it is equal to the guy who would stick up a grocery store, video it, and then post it on YouTube. Don't complain if you get burned in the end! In this scenario, the community loses access to another trail. In retrospect, the community as a whole should understand that accessing these illegal trails does come with consequences either sooner or later for the whole MTB community. It is "cool" to ride only until you get either fined or hurt riding these trails, then its off to another destination. As a rider that frequents other countries where the term "free riding" takes a whole new meaning! Making your own lines and going whatever speed you want, at the same time not worrying about being tagged or fined for doing something that is out of the set rules. Bottom line, there is so much dirt to ride in this world, it is pointless to get your chonies in a bunch about an illegal trail on Strava. What goes around comes around for this bonehead Strava user! Ride on!

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgroove View Post
    In comparison, I feel it is equal to the guy who would stick up a grocery store, video it, and then post it on YouTube.
    It has probably happened by now. Probably more than once.

  11. #61
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    If its a secret trail that only a few know of, then it wouldn't be a loss to the greater mtb community, just those few that knew of it. Sounds like learning experience, hide your trails better and/or get riding buddies that you can trust. After all, if ain't on strava it will be posted or discussed somewhere else.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    EDIT: I also realize this posting of rides/trails fundamentally kills the aspect of 'local' trails....it bugs me too, but I have no answers as how to stop it....info travels so freaking fast...
    chop down cell phone towers...
    hold my beer...

  13. #63
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    Stop creating strava segments on non-sanctioned trails!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ya it's kinda sad what people do, Ya lets post us poaching a trail that's not open yet!!!

  14. #64
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    I relay a statement from an unamed national advocate:

    "The real problem is speed, not riding unsanctioned trails."
    I don't rattle.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    I relay a statement from an unamed national advocate:

    "The real problem is speed, not riding unsanctioned trails."

    ^^^^ This, Strava has really set the MTB bike community back a long ways, in fact its been a disaster for the hard work advocates working with land managers and being faced with tough questions and real data, it is hurting us, you folks can stick your heads in the sand if you want.

    Strava is no worse than any other GPS upload site though as far as unsanctioned trail use & discovery, maybe it's easier to digest and filter through than others but I really do not know since I have not tried it for this. Edit: Just went poking around and holy crap it is super easy to find trails.
    Last edited by TahoeBC; 02-05-2013 at 07:23 AM.
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  16. #66
    Wēk Ss
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    ^^^^ This, Strava has really set the MTB bike community back a long ways, in fact its been a disaster for the hard work advocates working with land managers and being faced with tough questions and real data, it is hurting us, you folks can stick your heads in the sand if you want.

    Strava is no worse than any other GPS upload site though as far as unsanctioned trail use & discovery, maybe it's easier to digest and filter through than others but I really do not know since I have not tried it for this. Edit: Just went poking around and holy crap it is super easy to find trails.
    flag the segment, it won't show up in "explore".

    Segments are auto created as well. i've been on a few rides where segments get made by itself. Usually 1/1 on the leaderboard, and sometimes it's GPS error going off into some weird areas at some ridiculous grade. 30+ % avg grade. I don't know where or how they get the names though.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    ^^^^ This, Strava has really set the MTB bike community back a long ways, in fact its been a disaster for the hard work advocates working with land managers and being faced with tough questions and real data, it is hurting us, you folks can stick your heads in the sand if you want.
    Yes. Yes. No one ever went fast on trails before Strava. All radar use on trails started after Strava.

    What idiocy.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    Yes. Yes. No one ever went fast on trails before Strava. All radar use on trails started after Strava.

    What idiocy.
    Having all that speed data at your fingertips? for the people who collect data against us, Yes it is Idiocy, I fully agree!

    Our enemy's think Strava is the greatest thing since sliced bread, you kooks keep on feeding them that info
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  19. #69
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    mapping unsanctioned trails is a big no no IMO, racing on multiuse trails has the potential to have a really bad outcome some day.

    any actual cases of trails getting shut down or speed traps set up from strava?

    hey tahoebc, you should start mapping your secret bc ski lines.

  20. #70
    fresh fish in stock...... SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Having all that speed data at your fingertips? for the people who collect data against us, Yes it is Idiocy...
    Quote Originally Posted by socobiker View Post
    mapping unsanctioned trails is a big no no IMO...
    Full on 100% agree - but can it be stopped? Posting here won't do much...we're preaching to the choir. That and you can't change stupid

    If not, how can we use it as a 'positive'? It definitely shows we need more trails. it also shows how much we are out riding (or a segment of us)...utilizing parks/trails/outdoors/etc...

    Maybe we need get some hiker only trails converted to MTB only. That would be MUCH easier than getting anything built for MTB use only....

    hmmmm....
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    I relay a statement from an unamed national advocate:

    "The real problem is speed, not riding unsanctioned trails."
    In my opinion, it is both.
    "Look how fast I rode this route".
    "Look how fast I rode this route with illegal trails in the route."

    People need to grow up. "No atta-boys" on poached trails. Peer pressure is posting, "Delete this. You know why." Don't congratulate those hurting the sport and don't make it easy for the anti-mtn bikers to find. A friend just hit "10 ten" on a road route. I hope he doesn't kill himself trying to be #1.

    Any tool can be misused. I wonder what would happen if they left a radar trailer on 580 in Oakland.
    (Look at the side shows on 580 in Oakland. Spinning donuts on a freeway... crazy! Oakland Sideshows 2013 on highway 880 - YouTube)
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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    Yes. Yes. No one ever went fast on trails before Strava. All radar use on trails started after Strava.

    What idiocy.
    Way to miss the point.

  23. #73
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    Strava, Garmin Connector any GPS uploading/sharing program makes it a lot easier for anyone to see what is really happening on the local trails.

    I would also say that one point I try to bring out in trail advocacy is that demographics of the trail users has changed significantly in the last 10-15 years.

    Yes, this data can be used to hurt MTB trail use efforts, but also on the flip side you can gather info showing the different user group use and the TRUE demographics of the trail users in the area. That being said I'm sure cyclists and runners are far more apt to use GPS devices and Strava than hikers and equestrians... but how hard is it to count a dozen horses a week...

    Personally I'd like to use these statistics to show that we need more open trails. The legal local trails are ridden and raced to death (Granite Bay) around here.

    There is a push locally by park rangers to crack down on illegal trail use.... and I'm sure Strava, Garmin Connect or whatever makes it easier for them to monitor trail activities.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm quite sure it's not going to go away anytime soon.
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  24. #74
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    For the internet racing part of it, this is illegal to do this with motor vehicles for a good reason, it dangerous. Perhaps law makers can be lobbied to make this Strava feature illegal also. I do not know what going on with the lawsuit against Strava, but I hope they lose big time.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevXR View Post
    ..People need to grow up. "No atta-boys" on poached trails. Peer pressure is posting, "Delete this. You know why." Don't congratulate those hurting the sport and don't make it easy for the anti-mtn bikers to find. A friend just hit "10 ten" on a road route. I hope he doesn't kill himself trying to be #1.
    ...]
    Internet anonymity fundamentally kills the concept of responsibly conveying information (trails/speeds/etc in this case)....

    No one would openly discuss actively 'racing' on closed trails in front of LEO Rangers....but find it perfectly acceptable to do it from behind their keyboards/smartphones en masse...

    The sheer stupidity of this short sighted behavior is mind numbing....and it's not going to stop.

    We need to find a way to shed a positive light on all this track-able info....it's possible, just not easy.
    Visit these 2 places to help advance trail access:
    http://www.sharingthepct.org/
    http://www.facebook.com/SharingThePct

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