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  1. #76
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    This is quite funny to me as my LBS only sells specialized

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewMaster View Post
    Bottom line, to a consumer like me, I don't care what brands a LBS aligns itself with. When it comes time for me to buy a bike, I will find a shop that carries the brand I want.
    Also, bottom line, if I was a dealer, I would align myself with the company that was going to give me top of the line treatment. If a manufacturer told me, as a dealer, they were going to give me all these incentives, shipping discounts, displays, store improvements, first pick on new products, training of the repair/shop staff AND that manufacturer's products made up most of my business - it would be a no-brainer. I would look at my past sales and see if being an exclusive Specialized dealer is worth it. In many cases, it may be. Remember, the local bike shop has to stay alive, too - and if other manufacturers are not stepping up to the plate, then they get dropped.

    Why, as a local dealer/bike shop would I stick with another manufacturer who wasn't going to do the same or better for me?

    Out on the trail, is it fair that some riders have better/lighter/faster bikes that provide an advantage over whatever you have? Well... that's to be debated. Whether it's fair or not, most riders would "invest" in themselves and sink some cash on a new ride to "keep up" if not, be better than the dude next to you.

    Again, I'm just playing devils advocate, but I can see the logic in these business decisions. I can imagine a shop owner thinking this was a win-win for his shop, all the employees and Specialized.

  3. #78
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    Specialized is a scumbag company with ZERO integrity and honor to this sport. They only care about making money just like if they were corrupt politicians or bankers.

    This isn't the first time they've done something like this. In fact they have even gone far lengths to sue small bike shops.

    BOYCOTT THESE GREEDY DIRT BAGS. Fu*k you Specialized!

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    Specialized is a scumbag company with ZERO integrity and honor to this sport. They only care about making money just like if they were corrupt politicians or bankers.
    Unless you know of a high end bike company giving away their goods, then they are all trying to make money like any normal business. Get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewMaster View Post
    Unless you know of a high end bike company giving away their goods, then they are all trying to make money like any normal business. Get over it.
    Normal business is ordering bike shops to stop carrying a certain brand and suing them?

    If you are actually in favor of this then you are no different from the scumbags running Specialized.

  6. #81
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    I talked to someone at Mike's about them dropping Cannondale because I own one. He told me that Cannondale has become harder and harder to work with over the years. He said that since they were bought out it got worse and they were not the same American made bike maker that they once were but now more of a big box type of company that didn't care about who bought their stuff, just that they were being sold. I don't know if that is the truth but it sounded reasonable to me.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewMaster View Post
    Unless you know of a high end bike company giving away their goods, then they are all trying to make money like any normal business. Get over it.
    Oh, how about pretty much every other one? Some of them do get involved in lawsuits (like Santa Cruz vs Yeti etc.) but pretty much all are turning a profit and making good bikes without resorting to tactics, like pushing brands that allow internet sales from retail locations, and other crap S tries to do.

    Nobody asks anybody to give stuff away.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrewMaster View Post
    Unless you know of a high end bike company giving away their goods, then they are all trying to make money like any normal business. Get over it.
    First off, nobody is asking anybody to give anything away.

    Secondly, There are many companies out there turning a decent profit while offering good products at a good price, without strong arming their dealers into anti-trust style business practices.

    Third off, by 'get over it', what do you mean? Sounds like you are saying 'buy from them anyway'.

    Well, I can't I have a conscience.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    Specialized is a scumbag company with ZERO integrity and honor to this sport. They only care about making money just like if they were corrupt politicians or bankers.

    This isn't the first time they've done something like this. In fact they have even gone far lengths to sue small bike shops.

    BOYCOTT THESE GREEDY DIRT BAGS. Fu*k you Specialized!
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    Specialized sucks dong

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    Specialized is a scumbag company with ZERO integrity and honor to this sport. They only care about making money just like if they were corrupt politicians or bankers.

    This isn't the first time they've done something like this. In fact they have even gone far lengths to sue small bike shops.

    BOYCOTT THESE GREEDY DIRT BAGS. Fu*k you Specialized!
    Don't you think that would hurt the local shops?

    Take, say, Trailhead down here in San Jose. Good group of guys, good shop, good reputation, Lars is a mench... they carry A LOT of Specialized stuff, I would say it's 85% of their bikes if not more.

    Boycott Specialized? And cut out 85% of those great guys business? What about the great shops who decide to go 100% Specialized? Hurt that local business, as well?

    This is definitely a double edge sword, isn't it? As far as making money... don't we all care about that?

  11. #86
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    This may be somewhat OT, but the big BMC beer guys do the same thing. They require stores to allocate a certain amount of cooler space for their product, even if that means putting the temperature-sensitive beers on the floor.

    Big companies have always strong armed stores like this. Kind of a crappy move - they should let their products speak for themselves. If a company pulls a move like this I don't agree with, I generally sit down and think about it over a nice, hot Chick-fil-A sando.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Boycott Specialized? And cut out 85% of those great guys business? What about the great shops who decide to go 100% Specialized? Hurt that local business, as well?

    This is definitely a double edge sword, isn't it? As far as making money... don't we all care about that?
    I am sure there are good alternatives to Specialized. They will do fine if their business is actually impacted. Maybe they will even do better with other brands.

    If you care about good local store - it is Specialized who was employing big business strong arming to drive a whole lot of those nice small shop out of business. Just like Walmart.

  13. #88
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    Good job!

    Has anyone taken into account that other smaller bike companies don't do these things because they simply can't afford it? Lawyers aren't cheap. I love the way my spesh rides, don't love their policies - so I bought a used sj and haven't looked back. I agree - get over it, they are running a business for profit. If you don't like it don't buy it, but there isn't a need to vilify anyone for a difference of opinion. I've read way to much of that on mtbr lately.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Don't you think that would hurt the local shops?

    Take, say, Trailhead down here in San Jose. Good group of guys, good shop, good reputation, Lars is a mench... they carry A LOT of Specialized stuff, I would say it's 85% of their bikes if not more.

    Boycott Specialized? And cut out 85% of those great guys business? What about the great shops who decide to go 100% Specialized? Hurt that local business, as well?
    Any business person worth more than $100 would not put all of their eggs in one basket. Beside that, selling only Specialized bikes basically makes the shop an official Specialized shop. I can't imagine any of the successful people I know putting their money on the line to promote one company's bikes. That should be left to Specialized - to open their own corporate-owned store.

    Only one shop in my area sells Special Ed bikes. If shops refused to sell their bikes, there would be plenty of alternative brands to sell. Specialized is not the keystone of the industry.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumgai View Post
    Any business person worth more than $100 would not put all of their eggs in one basket. Beside that, selling only Specialized bikes basically makes the shop an official Specialized shop. I can't imagine any of the successful people I know putting their money on the line to promote one company's bikes. That should be left to Specialized - to open their own corporate-owned store.

    Only one shop in my area sells Special Ed bikes. If shops refused to sell their bikes, there would be plenty of alternative brands to sell. Specialized is not the keystone of the industry.
    The reality is that many LBS's have Specialized as a staple in their store, which I am sure they make most of their money from. Let's say this very hypothetical situation that people actually do rise up and boycott Specialized, and it works - customers stop buying those bikes. To think it wouldn't hurt those stores is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan G. View Post
    Specialized isnít the only brand playing the game...
    Did you guys miss this in the article? Who else is doing this? Boycott them too? Pretty soon, we'll all be forced to buy Rock Lobsters, Lynsky's and DeSalvos!

    I'm not defending Specialized, but again... this is competition. It sucks, it's nasty, but it's the nature of the beast. Look what Barnes and Noble did to the mom and pop book store industry... and now look what happened to them - killed by capitalism with competitive Amazon.com. Look at what Netflix did to the video rental industry... obliterated it. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle that will be affected both positively and negatively when you start looking at the big picture.

    Nobody boycotted Barnes and Noble nor Blockbuster... they just got destroyed by capitalism. Were they evil companies? Some would argue "yes" for putting the mom and pops out of business. Are Amazon and Netflix "evil" for destroying Barnes and Noble? Don't know, that's debatable.
    Last edited by Dion; 08-06-2012 at 06:50 AM.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by zkrazy View Post
    Has anyone taken into account that other smaller bike companies don't do these things because they simply can't afford it? Lawyers aren't cheap. I love the way my spesh rides, don't love their policies - so I bought a used sj and haven't looked back. I agree - get over it, they are running a business for profit. If you don't like it don't buy it, but there isn't a need to vilify anyone for a difference of opinion. I've read way to much of that on mtbr lately.
    Capitalism is a two way street. Consumers are allowed and encouraged to make educated purchasing decisions. We're simply educating consumers. This is a product review site after all!

    here's some facts about specialized:

    Specialized is a company who made its start by stealing. They took two bikes from charlie kelly and sent them to japan to be copied. They've stolen technology through litigation - succesfully putting Stratos suspension out of business and stealing the "brain" valve technology from them in the process.

    They basically put mountain cycle out of business when they sued them for the name "stumptown."

    Epic designs was forced to change their name.

    WTB Epicwolf was forced to change to the "exiwolf"

    Volagi is one of the few companies to successfully fight back.

    When the economy took a dump in 2008, Specialized revised their credit agreements for their dealers, forcing them to pay immediately. This put some dealers completely out of business, and others simply had to give back their inventory. There's a lot fewer specialized dealers than their used to be, because of this. And a lot of bad blood.

    Now what they do is front load the fvck out of a shop. They force a shop to take a certain amount, and that's a massive amount. That leverages the shop, because they ship up to the shop's credit limit. Then, when the shop inevitably sells a bike that isn't in stock, they have to prepay on the previous order in order to get the sold bike, handcuffing the shop. Is a brilliant way to strongarm a shop, and keep the sales guys always pushing specialized, because they have to to stay afloat.
    Last edited by iheartbicycles; 08-06-2012 at 07:53 AM.
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    Specialized sucks dong

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    The reality is that many LBS's have Specialized as a staple in their store, which I am sure they make most of their money from. Let's say this very hypothetical situation that people actually do rise up and boycott Specialized, and it works - customers stop buying those bikes. To think it wouldn't hurt those stores is wrong.
    Not wrong. The reality is that many LBSs (there's no ' to show plurality) do not sell Specialized products and turn a profit. How do shops that do not carry anything Specialized stay in business? Like I said, only one shop in my area carries S bikes. The others carry and thrive on selling Trek, Giant, Felt, BMC, Yeti, Santa Cruz, etc. Like I said, Specialized is not the keystone of the industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Look what Barnes and Noble did to the mom and pop book store industry... and now look what happened to them - killed by capitalism with competitive Amazon.com. Look at what Netflix did to the video rental industry... obliterated it. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle that will be affected both positively and negatively when you start looking at the big picture.

    Nobody boycotted Barnes and Noble nor Blockbuster... they just got destroyed by capitalism. Were they evil companies? Some would argue "yes" for putting the mom and pops out of business. Are Amazon and Netflix "evil" for destroying Barnes and Noble? Don't know, that's debatable.
    Those are bad and invalid comparisons. Amazon and Netflix did not take over their respective industries by forcing shops to carry certain products at the exclusion of others. They did so by completely circumventing existing distribution strategies, which added value to customers by increasing selection and offering quick and affordable shipping terms. Specialized is not adding value. It's a completely different model than the bike industry.

    You're talking about a company who produces products, Specialized, versus companies that simply distribute products, Amazon and Netflix, made by other companies. Specialized is not taking over by improving distribution efficiency. It's trying to strong-arm its way into more shops. I believe the mafia uses the same tactics to run its businesses. Those guys (sometimes) go to jail for doing that.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by sumgai View Post
    Not wrong. The reality is that many LBSs (there's no ' to show plurality) do not sell Specialized products and turn a profit. How do shops that do not carry anything Specialized stay in business? Like I said, only one shop in my area carries S bikes. The others carry and thrive on selling Trek, Giant, Felt, BMC, Yeti, Santa Cruz, etc. Like I said, Specialized is not the keystone of the industry.



    Those are bad and invalid comparisons. Amazon and Netflix did not take over their respective industries by forcing shops to carry certain products at the exclusion of others. They did so by completely circumventing existing distribution strategies, which added value to customers by increasing selection and offering quick and affordable shipping terms. Specialized is not adding value. It's a completely different model than the bike industry.

    You're talking about a company who produces products, Specialized, versus companies that simply distribute products, Amazon and Netflix, made by other companies. Specialized is not taking over by improving distribution efficiency. It's trying to strong-arm its way into more shops. I believe the mafia uses the same tactics to run its businesses. Those guys (sometimes) go to jail for doing that.
    Yay! Mafia reference. Have we used nazi's or Hitler yet?

    My point is that this is capitalism - it's not hugs and kisses and feel good. It isn't fair. Some companies will get destroyed, and some will flourish.

    My comparison was apples to pineapples at best, but what people are failing to see is that the market will balance itself out. When Specialized pulled their shenanigans with that brewing company over the logo... everybody got their panties in a bunch. People were calling for their heads on platters...

    What happened, in terms of Specialized's market share? NOTHING. Still booming in terms of business. I'm not saying that this is right or I like the company more or less... I'm saying that this is what we have subscribed to in the U.S. It's not right and it borders certain ethics - but take a look at what Monsanto does. Look at what the meat industry does. Certainly much more evil than Specialized Bikes - yet how many enjoyed pork, chicken or beef from the supermarket this weekend?

    People ask me about why I'm a vegetarian... and I tell them because I hate what the meat industry does - I love the taste of meat, but the evil the industry does overrides that. They look at me and say, "Oh, okay..." and really don't give a sh|t.

    And, again... like the article says, they aren't the only ones "playing the game". I suspect they all pull this sort of thing. Shall we boycott them too while were at it? I'm curious what sort of antics others are doing that's not published.
    Last edited by Dion; 08-06-2012 at 08:41 AM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Addict View Post
    Specialized is a scumbag company with ZERO integrity and honor to this sport. They only care about making money just like if they were corrupt politicians or bankers.

    This isn't the first time they've done something like this. In fact they have even gone far lengths to sue small bike shops.

    BOYCOTT THESE GREEDY DIRT BAGS. Fu*k you Specialized!
    If they weren't out to make money and be successful in a fairly challenging industry then they would fail. You don't think that owners of bike shops don't tell customers to not go to the other shop in town. You don't think that a good car mechanic won't tell you to not go to the "other guy?" And you think that bike companies are solely in it for the Bro-down fun of it and NOT to make money? Don't be ridiculous dude. Even small time companies like Transition wouldn't be making bikes if it wasn't for money, and if they had an opportunity to strengthen their dealer base and make more money down the road you'd be an absolute fool to think that they wouldn't do it. Greed? Sure. But if you weren't greedy at all you wouldn't live where you do, drive what you drive, and ride what you ride.

    Forget the image you have of your smaller niche bike company being the ones with the soul and the stoke to always be cool and hip. Everyone out there is in it to make their bank account bigger, it's just that some companies have been more successful and have the resources to do more to make more. This industry, like every other, is driven on profit margins. Sorry to dirty up your super safe and sanitized view of the "little guys" in the bike industry, but you've got to understand that if it weren't for money none of these guys would be able to put food on their tables and have a roof over their heads. You've got to imagine that at some point they're going to want better food and a bigger roof.
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  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized is a company who made its start by stealing. They took two bikes from charlie kelly and sent them to japan to be copied.
    If you are ok with this, then continue to give them your money. If you are not, then DON'T BE SPORTIN' THE "S"!

    We vote with our wallets.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    My point is that this is capitalism - it's not hugs and kisses and feel good. It isn't fair. Some companies will get destroyed, and some will flourish.
    Even in a regulated capitalism society karma is a bitсh.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by his dudeness View Post
    Even small time companies like Transition wouldn't be making bikes if it wasn't for money, and if they had an opportunity to strengthen their dealer base and make more money down the road you'd be an absolute fool to think that they wouldn't do it.
    And yet Transition forwarded me where to get a good deal on their frame online and manages to do fine without telling their dealers to stop carrying other bike or component brands.

    It is entirely possible to have a successful business and not be a jerk.

  23. #98
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    just read this, i think specialized needs to find a better lawyer to explain how the laws around competition work in this country.

  24. #99
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    I do like their Captain as a rear tire. Does it make me a bad person?
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    I do like their Captain as a rear tire. Does it make me a bad person?
    No, not at all.

    Specialized by no doubt makes incredible products. They put a lot of effort in designing tires. frames, and components. I have had some of their tires and they are amazingly made and designed.

    It's just their so called business practices that now make me steer clear of them. The only way i would own a Specialized bike would be if someone was selling theirs at a steal. I have to admit I do very much like their carbon Stumpjumper 29 models.

    But in other words I truly hate the company, but the products? Not so much.

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