View Poll Results: Should $2 Dollar Hill Be Re-Routed/Removed?

Voters
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  • Yes, re-route it. It will be better

    21 35.59%
  • No, keep it. This trail is historic!

    19 32.20%
  • Find some comprimse that keeps it, but provides an easier option

    21 35.59%
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  1. #1
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    Should $2 Dollar Hill in Joaquin Miller be Removed/Destroyed?

    BTCEB has apparently been working on a re-route of $2 Dollar Hill for some time now, and finally succeeded in getting permission to re-route Sunset Trail away from this challenging feature.

    $2 Dollar Hill in my opinion is worthy of preservation, simply due to it's history and reputation of being a challenging hill to climb.

    It sure would be nice if the BTCEB would make public, plans like these and put them up for debate - before endeavoring to ruin one of the best known hill climbs in the Bay Area.

    While it may be too little, too late - go ahead and vote. How ever symbolically.

    For those not familiar with the trail- here's a few samples from Youtube and Vimeo

    Two Dollar Hill - YouTube
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  2. #2
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    looks like the number videos we're allowed to post are limited - but here's more


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  3. #3
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    Unicyclists on $2 hill! (BTCEB's own video)
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  4. #4
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    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  5. #5
    mtb'er
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    FWIW, I recall hearing about this reroute quite some time ago (4-6 months?), and I don't live in the area anymore (going on 14 years). Maybe I read it on mtbr? As a former JMP regular and sentimental guy to boot, yeah it's a bummer if it goes, but not a huge loss in the grand scheme of things.

    Out of hundreds of rides in JMP, I can't recall ever going down $2 Hill...

    Maybe make that nasty climb between Dunn Trail and Sequoia Point the new $1.99 Hill?


  6. #6
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    I ran into Brent and the Hilride guys yesterday morning, they had just finished flagging it appeared. I myself think that there would be no problem on rider's attitudes if the $2 hill section was left alone, and perhaps signed as "uphill only" for cyclists. Having another trail that turns off to allow a more easily rideable route is a great idea - but leave the challenge for those looking for it! I've ridden down it a few times, and it's just a steep, short, rocky hill. Palos Colorado is much more fun to pick your way down the roots, IMO. Been about 7 years since I've made it up $2 hill, but once I decide to get another geared bike, it might be worth taking a serious shot at it again. Be nice if it was still there.
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  7. #7
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    Part of me says, " Hell no, it must stay! It's a classic!" Then another part of me says, "Phew, I won't have to walk that again".
    Peanut butter Tuesday, if you know what I mean!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATBScott View Post
    I ran into Brent and the Hilride guys yesterday morning, they had just finished flagging it appeared. I myself think that there would be no problem on rider's attitudes if the $2 hill section was left alone, and perhaps signed as "uphill only" for cyclists. Having another trail that turns off to allow a more easily rideable route is a great idea - but leave the challenge for those looking for it! I've ridden down it a few times, and it's just a steep, short, rocky hill. Palos Colorado is much more fun to pick your way down the roots, IMO. Been about 7 years since I've made it up $2 hill, but once I decide to get another geared bike, it might be worth taking a serious shot at it again. Be nice if it was still there.
    Yah, it's really not fun riding down - but it is a challenge riding up. I dont see how keeping it could hurt anything.

    It's an old logging road, right? That means it's been there a hundred years or so? Seems like it's lasted pretty well!
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  9. #9
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    Keep it i say, for my selfish reason - I rarely make it out there but getting close to cleaning it climbing!

    I think most mtb appreciate the challenge it provides and it's rare in these parts.

  10. #10
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    I'm of two minds on this. I use a 1x10 on my current MTB, so going up $2 means I'm pushing. On a bike with a granny it's definitely a fun challenge, so I wouldn't necessarily want to see it closed completely. But I also wonder if the MTB community could score some points by supporting the closure and re-vegetation of the really eroded stretch. It wouldn't have a huge impact on overall erosion in the park, but it could be a PR win. I suppose it comes down to how well-planned the reroute is...if Hilride is on board, it should be legit.

  11. #11
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    Yes there is a plan to reroute Sunset Trail a bit west of $2 Hill up to Sequoia-Bayview Trail. The primary purpose of this project is to provide a more sustainable and user friendly trail which currently lies in the creek bed of Palo Seco Creek and is substantially over grade.

    As has been mentioned this project has been talked about for many, many years. For over ten years I was a board member for BTCEB, four as President, and I have been the vice-chair of the Friends of Joaquin Miller Park (FOJMP) for the last two years. During this time I had the opportunity to talk and interact with many hundreds (if not thousands) of Bay Area cyclists. And while I certainly haven't talked to ever mountain biker in the east bay, I have had numerous conversations on $2 Hill over the years. Both with those that wanted to work on rerouting or repairing this section of trail and others who wanted it left alone. And I've personally been reluctant to tackle this trail because of my own conflicting views. But the idea that this reroute has suddenly been thrust upon local riders without any input is simply not true.

    One of the reason that this trail has just been left alone is that it lies in the creek bed of Palo Seco Creek. This made getting permission to work on the trail very difficult as the permitting process to work in a creek is a real bear. Over the years the trail has widened and is now about 12' wide and developed some really nasty rutting.
    Should  Dollar Hill in Joaquin Miller be Removed/Destroyed?-sunset01.jpg

    Last year the FOJMP flagged this area as one of the top three areas in the park that needed attention. There is a fair amount of back story that I won't get into, but suffice to say the writing was on the wall that momentum was growing for this trail to be rerouted. Knowing this, the question was should we stand around and do nothing, actively fight against the idea, or get out in front and lead on the project. BTC choose the later and in January had Jim Jacobson come out and we walked the area with park management and laid out a rough reroute up the northern slope. But Jim was super busy with the Flow Trail and while he was willing to pin out a new trail wasn't able to come on board with construction. (Jim build the "switchback trail" in Dimond Park and did the design work for all the major reroutes in the Park over the last decade.)

    But as luck would have it another one of the Bay Areas primer trail building group, Hilride Progression Development Group, LLC, recently relocated to Oakland and were excited about doing a local project. If you don't know about Hilride they are the designers behind the Stafford Lake (Marin), Lafayette, and McLaren (SF) bike parks. They have also conducted trail design, planning and construction workshops around the country for virtually every major federal land management agency in the United States, including the National Park Service, National Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, and the Army Corps of Engineers. We had Hilride come out and take a look last month and Nat agreed to come on as the design and construction lead. Obviously we're really excited about having Hilride design the new Sunset reroute and know that it's going to be a awesome improvement.

    Yesterday five of us did the initial route design and planning to be out early next week to pin the trail and do some corridor clearing. This will give everyone a change to see the new design which I know is going to be very cool. We're hoping to move forward with actual construction in May before the dirt dries out and be finished early June. We'll most definitely be looking for help with construction and posting work days as the project firms up.
    Last edited by oparks; 04-13-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  12. #12
    It's about showing up.
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    A thoughtful man might have asked a few questions before casting aspersions.
    I don't rattle.

  13. #13
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    I won't miss it, but primarily because I could never clear the damn thing. Then again, as I'm getting older, I despise more and more 15% grade climbs.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    A thoughtful man might have asked a few questions before casting aspersions.
    It is fair and proper that a public debate be had - when BTCEB or any other organization (that supposedly represents us) endeavors to destroy a trail valued by so many.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    I won't miss it, but primarily because I could never clear the damn thing. Then again, as I'm getting older, I despise more and more 15% grade climbs.
    It's considered poor form to sanitize trails simply because you can't ride them.
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  16. #16
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    It's not being sanitized. It's being decommissioned for enviro reasons. I wouldn't call it a "trail" either. It's just a challenge... and pretty much a challenge that 95% of mt. bikers can't do.

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  17. #17
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    Should $2 Dollar Hill in Joaquin Miller be Removed/Destroyed?

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    It's considered poor form to sanitize trails simply because you can't ride them.
    He said he's getting older. Perhaps he can't get his walker up steep climbs anymore.


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  18. #18
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    I totally agree that this merits discussion. $2 Hill means a lot to people but that is not what you did. You denigrated people and their efforts for this community from a position of ignorance. You just struck out without making any effort to try and understand what happened and how things got to this point.
    I don't rattle.

  19. #19
    Paper or plastic?
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    Re: Should $2 Dollar Hill in Joaquin Miller be Removed/Destroyed?

    Clearly, it is replaced to accommodate my old age. I also plan on asking for a lift soon to get back to the top.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    I totally agree that this merits discussion. $2 Hill means a lot to people but that is not what you did. You denigrated people and their efforts for this community from a position of ignorance. You just struck out without making any effort to try and understand what happened and how things got to this point.
    What happened and how did things get to this point?

    Reading the other thread this sounds like it's a BTCEB driven idea that has been kept on the down low until it was sprung on the east bay riding community as a fait accompli.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justsome_NICA_dad View Post
    What happened and how did things get to this point?

    Reading the other thread this sounds like it's a BTCEB driven idea that has been kept on the down low until it was sprung on the east bay riding community as a fait accompli.
    "So I think it not the discussion that is so hard to manage but the idea that we end up not being a party to the solution which failed to consider the values revealed by 100 contributors. What we did see was a lack of a accountability and some sense that privilege makes that possible. "

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  22. #22
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    The project, on a JMP Wish list for 10 years, had a pretty good head of steam motivated by a number of stakeholders. It was going to happen with us or without us. We happened to be there and offered our help. You knew when we knew.

    We could have just left it for them to do...

    And iHeart, you keep trying but your quote is apropos of nothing.
    Last edited by Berkeley Mike; 04-16-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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  23. #23
    J-Flo
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    I see no problem with the plan to build a new connector trail, one that will be rideable uphill for most mere mortals and will be a little more interesting on the downhill.

    I haven't heard that $2 hill trail is to be closed/destroyed/returned to nature when the new trail is done. Where does that assumption come from?

  24. #24
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    Not sure, really. They want to restore the creek bed ultimately. I'm guessing it wil be off-limits in some fashion; we know how well that works in JMP.
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  25. #25
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    Gone to Cabo compadres!
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