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Thread: RIP Fight Club

  1. #1
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    RIP Fight Club

    Is there any such thing as fight club any more? We've had unofficial rules of keeping certain topics out of this forum (which I used to be a big supporter of), but given the rise of some other websites, (ahem, cough, cough, you know what I'm talking about) it seems kind of pointless.

    Personally I was holding the torch until last November. Then I logged onto one of those sites and found that 165 people had ridden one of my favorite trails. At that point I figured if you can't beat them then join them. Sometimes I think it's really fun, but other times I think the sh!t's going to hit the fan some day and we're all going to lose.

    So, is Fight Club dead? Is there any point anymore? Is there any way back? How do you get 165 (now 330+) people to change their minds? Is it just up here in the North Bay that the game is over or is it the same everywhere?

    -slide

  2. #2
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    Civil disobedience. Don't ride the back of the bus.

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  3. #3
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    IMO, a lot of people log and post things that relate to this for either a. to be a part of the "cool kids" or b. to obtain some sort of psuedo-status about having knowledge about these parts. Foolish of them to think that there won't be a day that LEO and the powers will be able to use this same information to pinch those out of compliance, or gain information about new places people like to hang out. I think if the consensus was to leave no trace both literally and figuratively not only will the areas in question remain pristine, but it will draw less attention to them. I do think, however, that many individuals do not understand the consequences socially (in terms of access and public opinion) and monetarily that over exposure can cause, the admission price is pretty high when the toll collector comes a calling... just my thoughts on the topic.
    Last edited by markj2k4; 04-12-2012 at 10:38 PM.

  4. #4
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    I'm still down with fight club! People are going to do what they want, and so will I. I share info with people I think are worthy; it's my choice. That being said, anyone got some new trails for me to ride

  5. #5
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    I honestly don't think it will change much, which is a good thing for most of us. I just wish that certain service provided more privacy options to hide such things... :/

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle mama View Post
    I'm still down with fight club! People are going to do what they want, and so will I. I share info with people I think are worthy; it's my choice. That being said, anyone got some new trails for me to ride
    The point joe shmoe can find all of your fight club trails online now, hence no more fight club. Do you remember Before S*****?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    I honestly don't think it will change much, which is a good thing for most of us. I just wish that certain service provided more privacy options to hide such things... :/
    For the most part I think you're right but I think there will be a handful of closures due to past history and increased exposure which is a bummer.

    Increased privacy - yes! Don't get why that hasn't been done yet. If and when it is, wonder how it will be applied to everything that's already out there.

    -slide

  8. #8
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    Maybe someday folks will leave their devices at home, or is that just wishful thinking? You'd have do some carbon14 dating on the mud on my bikes to know where I've been. Just sayin'.
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  9. #9
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    rule #1.

  10. #10
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    Said website should really go through and pull the segments of all the super obvious illegal trails......I tried flagging them for a while but it was pointless. Marginal trails and social trails......not a huge deal to me, but having ever single hiking trail on Tam segmented with the # of people that have ridden.......just asking for trouble.

    it's not about riding with GPS its about creating trail segments based on illegal trails, which is bad enough. Using the trails real name is really makes no sense!
    Previously known as mttamrnr.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    rule #1.
    +1...
    .

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide mon View Post
    Is there any such thing as fight club any more? We've had unofficial rules of keeping certain topics out of this forum (which I used to be a big supporter of), but given the rise of some other websites, (ahem, cough, cough, you know what I'm talking about) it seems kind of pointless.

    Personally I was holding the torch until last November. Then I logged onto one of those sites and found that 165 people had ridden one of my favorite trails. At that point I figured if you can't beat them then join them. Sometimes I think it's really fun, but other times I think the sh!t's going to hit the fan some day and we're all going to lose.

    So, is Fight Club dead? Is there any point anymore? Is there any way back? How do you get 165 (now 330+) people to change their minds? Is it just up here in the North Bay that the game is over or is it the same everywhere?

    -slide
    I'll be KOM'ing Fight Club manana and brappability quotient is gunna be HIGH!
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  13. #13
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    Who does not want to brag about being DH KOM of Mt Tam single tracks?
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  14. #14
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    Yeah I do...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    Do you remember Before S*****?
    It's called BS!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  15. #15
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    I have always wanted to clean Fight Club riding uphill, but I dab to quickly.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    The point joe shmoe can find all of your fight club trails online now, hence no more fight club. Do you remember Before S*****?
    Yeah, your right! I don't use strava or a computer. My racing days are past, I'm just trail riding at my pace. Some days it's fast and some it's painfully slow. I would hate to see some of the trails I've been riding for years get destroyed.

    As far as trails on Tam go, game on! Those have a

  17. #17
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    oops!

    Tam trails have always been high risk; there is no chance of getting them shut down. Yes, I have logged many miles there over the years.

  18. #18
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    I imagine your Fight Club was on the die the first time you posted about it.

    Loose lips sink ships.

    Who does not want to brag about being DH KOM of Mt Tam single tracks? Me, for one.

  19. #19
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    seriously, I can't believe the lack of discretion on S. it's dead simple to make your ride private but apparently there are plenty of people out there who don't know that or choose not to. I was flagging segments for awhile but it's hard to keep up and starts to feel pretty pointless, the segments still show up, just no results. S needs a function for users to completely remove segments that relate to nonsanctioned trails (currently, only users that create a segment can edit/delete it).

  20. #20
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    Clarify

    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    seriously, I can't believe the lack of discretion on S. it's dead simple to make your ride private but apparently there are plenty of people out there who don't know that or choose not to. I was flagging segments for awhile but it's hard to keep up and starts to feel pretty pointless, the segments still show up, just no results. S needs a function for users to completely remove segments that relate to nonsanctioned trails (currently, only users that create a segment can edit/delete it).
    You do mean to edit the segments out from your own ride, not go in and delete from another poster, correct? If so, do you really want that function being used on your routes?

    And how is S***** suppose to know what trails are legit or not?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    You do mean to edit the segments out from your own ride, not go in and delete from another poster, correct? If so, do you really want that function being used on your routes?

    And how is S***** suppose to know what trails are legit or not?
    I don't expect S to know whether a trail is legit or not, that is why I think other users should be able to delete segments that they did not create if they are unsanctioned. The community needs to police itself.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    You do mean to edit the segments out from your own ride, not go in and delete from another poster, correct? If so, do you really want that function being used on your routes?

    And how is S***** suppose to know what trails are legit or not?
    They could use those crazy paper things with all the lines on them....they were what people used to get directions before GPS devices arrived...can't remember what they're called.

    Are we trying to protect Strava's identity now?

  23. #23
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    Still foggy

    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    I don't expect S to know whether a trail is legit or not, that is why I think other users should be able to delete segments that they did not create if they are unsanctioned. The community needs to police itself.
    If the "segment" shows up on someones ride, does that not mean they were on it? Serious question as I'm not really S/gps/tracks literate.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    If the "segment" shows up on someones ride, does that not mean they were on it? Serious question as I'm not really S/gps/tracks literate.
    It usally does, but if two trails are close together, S will sometimes get confused.
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  25. #25
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    Got it

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    It usally does, but if two trails are close together, S will sometimes get confused.
    Thanks ihb. Actually I was just talking about that/similar situation with ride buddy during last nights "legal" trail meandering. He did a ride recently and a KOM popped up for him on some random trail he was on near a highschool, but only showed riden once and him as sole person doing it. Weird. Only thing I could think of is may be it's been segmented by a "runner" or some other type user?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  26. #26
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    You mock...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    They could use those crazy paper things with all the lines on them....they were what people used to get directions before GPS devices arrived...can't remember what they're called.

    Are we trying to protect Strava's identity now?
    D'oh! We're not talking "directions". That would fall under gps routes in the "adventure cycling" forum. Geesch....

    And no, someone else started the covert labeling of *****a. I'm just trying to follow the club rules.

    Let's change direction here. Anyone get a KOM in the sack recently??
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  27. #27
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    IMO the 'explore' section of strava could cause problems...I think you should only be able to see segments in explore that you have personally ridden (or maybe people you are following have ridden).

  28. #28
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    Still faulty

    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    IMO the 'explore' section of strava could cause problems...I think you should only be able to see segments in explore that you have personally ridden (or maybe people you are following have ridden).
    Do you only follow people that ride "sanctioned" trails? Do you un-follow if you see thay are venturing off outside the lines of conformity?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Do you only follow people that ride "sanctioned" trails? Do you un-follow if you see thay are venturing off outside the lines of conformity?
    what? no...

  30. #30
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    power in numbers?

    Maybe there's a silver lining to all this, that increased traffic all of a sudden is a way of mainstreaming these areas and making it clear that it's not just the activity of some "rogue elements" (or pick whatever alarmist tag The Other Side might use in a MarinIJ rant). I know it's risky -- and I'm not sure I buy the argument myself, just thinking aloud -- but it might be time for a new strategy. At a certain size, our constituency won't be as easy to ignore by those pesky elected officials, and this is a way of making those numbers evident.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    D'oh! We're not talking "directions". That would fall under gps routes in the "adventure cycling" forum. Geesch....

    And no, someone else started the covert labeling of *****a. I'm just trying to follow the club rules.

    Let's change direction here. Anyone get a KOM in the sack recently??
    I think RedNova has 2/3 of the KOMs in CC locked down?!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    IMO the 'explore' section of strava could cause problems...I think you should only be able to see segments in explore that you have personally ridden (or maybe people you are following have ridden).
    If you are worried about people discovering illegal segments via the 'explore' feature, just flag the segments and have them removed.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    D'oh! We're not talking "directions". That would fall under gps routes in the "adventure cycling" forum. Geesch....

    And no, someone else started the covert labeling of *****a. I'm just trying to follow the club rules.

    Let's change direction here. Anyone get a KOM in the sack recently??
    What I'm saying is that every "legal" trail in the state is clearly mapped by its land manager and made available for all to see. The team at Strava can build a really useful app but they can't read a map?

    The irony of people freely outing social trails but then feeling the need to protect a company's identity is humorous to me.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    The irony of people freely outing social trails but then feeling the need to protect a company's identity is humorous to me.
    I dont think anyone involved in this conversation is freely outing social trails (I think we are concerned about those that do) and I took it as an attempt to avoid even more obvious references to "go here if you want to find illegal trails," not about 'protecting' the company from anything...

  35. #35
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    Yeah that Limeys fast!

    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    I think RedNova has 2/3 of the KOMs in CC locked down?!
    And don't forget his Repack runs!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  36. #36
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    It is matter of time before strava is used against us.

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardboiled View Post
    I dont think anyone involved in this conversation is freely outing social trails (I think we are concerned about those that do) and I took it as an attempt to avoid even more obvious references to "go here if you want to find illegal trails," not about 'protecting' the company from anything...
    You're right. My logic was flawed. I'd guess that 99% of the people on this forum are pretty conscientious and do the right thing more often than not so most of these discussions are just keyboard masturbation.

    I did find it weird that people were editing out the company's name all of a sudden. I was worried it was a mod thing for a second.

  38. #38
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    You should just rename all the illegal trails to "Fight Club". That would confuse both riders and those wanting to destroy said trails that don't exist
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  39. #39
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    If one cares about the rules of fight club, then one must be more vigilant about flagging segments for removal, and that requires that one knows what applies and what doesn't. Some people are just noobs, or just following someone else and are clueless and/or careless. I wonder if people know they can make a ride private?
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    rule #1.
    Rule #1.

    I'd rather other people not talk about it. Even if they are, I'm still not.
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  41. #41
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    Flagging is the exact opposite of what it should be. The leaderboard goes away but the trail is still discoverable.

    So, anyone try to get strava to change? I've heard that people mention this in the forums but that nothing's been done. Here's a proposal:

    1) Allow segments to be marked private
    2) Private segments don't show up in segment explorer
    3) People can only see private segment leaderboards if they've ridden the trail
    4) Private segments don't show up in your profile except to your followers

    [edit: one more]
    5) If 5 or more people request it a segment becomes private.

    Anyone have any pull with Strava? How can we make it happen?

    -slide

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by urban turban View Post
    If you are worried about people discovering illegal segments via the 'explore' feature, just flag the segments and have them removed.
    Except they still show up in the explore function- only the rider stats/leaderboard gets deleted. The person who created the segment has to delete it.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide mon View Post
    Flagging is the exact opposite of what it should be. The leaderboard goes away but the trail is still discoverable.

    So, anyone try to get strava to change? I've heard that people mention this in the forums but that nothing's been done. Here's a proposal:

    1) Allow segments to be marked private
    2) Private segments don't show up in segment explorer
    3) People can only see private segment leaderboards if they've ridden the trail
    4) Private segments don't show up in your profile except to your followers

    [edit: one more]
    5) If 5 or more people request it a segment becomes private.

    Anyone have any pull with Strava? How can we make it happen?

    -slide
    I think we should start yet another thread griping about this on their support forum, but we need to show that more than just a few of us are concerned about this.

  44. #44
    YESBRO!!!
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    Dude! Wh|y are you even talking about fight club???

    EDIT: Also, why the hell do I only have 9 rep power??

  45. #45
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    Only an idiot would use GPS on "certain trails" and post it anywhere. Ride with yourself, your friends, and leave some friends out of some rides if they are not respectful. You are not "more cool" if you need to prove what you ride. Just ride. Only on legal trails like we all do.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by datenschwanz View Post
    Dude! Wh|y are you even talking about fight club???

    EDIT: Also, why the hell do I only have 9 rep power??
    Fight Club does not exist anymore for 9 out of 10 trails?!?!?!?!

    (below is just an example)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails RIP Fight Club-fightclub.jpg  


  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    Fight Club does not exist anymore for 9 out of 10 trails?!?!?!?!

    (below is just an example)

    Ohh! You missed a good one between those two fight club soap bars in that one area.

  48. #48
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  49. #49
    Paper or plastic?
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    Strava is one issue and Youtube is another. Google Mt Tam mountain biking for entertainment...
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Strava is one issue and Youtube is another. Google Mt Tam mountain biking for entertainment...
    I agree, but how many people can find their way to a trail because of a video? Does a video contain damning stats like 500+ people have ridden XYZ trail in the last 3 months? Does youtube provide the exaction locations of the trail? BS, it used to be pretty fun to do recon and find a trail without the help of the interwebz. Now all you need dto do is check explore.

  51. #51
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    Slide- First, don't i see you all over S*****?
    - Second, you can email strava and get them to remove segments, talk to Elle, she did it for a certain trial on the coast side of tam containing all numbers in the name . You used to be able to email support@strava but it looks like they have a new system.
    I have emailed strava and suggested the idea of having private trails or group private trails, i think others should do the same.
    Strava is barely aware of the issues with mountain bike segments, they are mainly concerned with segments on private property and not aware of the issues of illegal trail segments.
    I happened to run into a strava employee out on a ride after emailing them and further mentioned this issue to them, they are working on it supposedly.

    Finally- I'm coming for the rest of the CC KOM's as soon as i get my new Nomad built up. Good thing none of you know who i am on S****. Your never going to see it coming, muahaahahahaahahaa

  52. #52
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    What's fight club?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt. Tam Haze View Post
    Slide- First, don't i see you all over S*****?
    - Second, you can email strava and get them to remove segments, talk to Elle, she did it for a certain trial on the coast side of tam containing all numbers in the name . You used to be able to email support@strava but it looks like they have a new system.
    I have emailed strava and suggested the idea of having private trails or group private trails, i think others should do the same.
    Strava is barely aware of the issues with mountain bike segments, they are mainly concerned with segments on private property and not aware of the issues of illegal trail segments.
    I happened to run into a strava employee out on a ride after emailing them and further mentioned this issue to them, they are working on it supposedly.

    Finally- I'm coming for the rest of the CC KOM's as soon as i get my new Nomad built up. Good thing none of you know who i am on S****. Your never going to see it coming, muahaahahahaahahaa
    Yeah, I gave in and became part of the problem but having second thoughts. If you had anything to do with the removal of that trail then kudos - you never saw me on that one, that was too much even for a lemming like myself.

    -slide

  54. #54
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    No doubt. One plus the other: problems waiting to happen. Oh well.
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  55. #55
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    Whoah...wait just a minute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haus Boss View Post
    Fight Club does not exist anymore for 9 out of 10 trails?!?!?!?!

    (below is just an example)
    Can I have that gps link?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  56. #56
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elacrosse7 View Post
    What's fight club?
    RULE #1 MAN.
    Banned for showing Boobies.

    You-and your friend,are fvucking idiots. DirtVert

  57. #57
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    I dunno... my beer might be empty, but my glass is half full. Maybe if "the authorities" see that these no-bike trails are ridden a ton and there are zero injuries and deaths, they'll come to grips that mt. biking ought not be banned from said trails.

    Also, show me where gps tracks lead to action from authorities.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mt. Tam Haze View Post
    Slide- First, don't i see you all over S*****?
    - Second, you can email strava and get them to remove segments, talk to Elle, she did it for a certain trial on the coast side of tam containing all numbers in the name . You used to be able to email support@strava but it looks like they have a new system.
    I have emailed strava and suggested the idea of having private trails or group private trails, i think others should do the same.
    Strava is barely aware of the issues with mountain bike segments, they are mainly concerned with segments on private property and not aware of the issues of illegal trail segments.
    I happened to run into a strava employee out on a ride after emailing them and further mentioned this issue to them, they are working on it supposedly.

    Finally- I'm coming for the rest of the CC KOM's as soon as i get my new Nomad built up. Good thing none of you know who i am on S****. Your never going to see it coming, muahaahahahaahahaa
    I asked Elle to delete that trail. Her response seemed to indicate there was at least some concern at the company about stuff like this. For what it's worth, I found her to be very helpful in this regard. Best not to put them up in the first place though, let alone make segments out of them.

  59. #59
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    rule #2.


  60. #60
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    Slightly OT but can anyone tell me how to create a segment? There is a legal trail that runs close to another that has been created. The problem is when I look on the Strava map it doesn't come up. I can see it on the official trail map from the park. Thoughts??

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkie View Post
    Slightly OT but can anyone tell me how to create a segment? There is a legal trail that runs close to another that has been created. The problem is when I look on the Strava map it doesn't come up. I can see it on the official trail map from the park. Thoughts??
    visually:



    but you should also read the following:

    https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2...ating-segments

    On Bicycles, and.... what else is there?: Strava segment creation tips

  62. #62
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    Thanks. I'll give it a try.

  63. #63
    roadie
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    the UI changed a little since that video was posted, but it should give you a general idea. this one is a little more up to date on what the interface actually looks like:


  64. #64
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    Solution: Go build some sweet kick ass trails and don't tell anyone. Other than me of course.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  65. #65
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    Strava has a feature request area:

    https://strava.zendesk.com/forums/20...ature-requests

    So I posted a request for private group segments (segments that aren't in segment explorer and only show up if you've ridden the trail) My request never showed up. I asked them about it and they review all requests before posting them for the public, but I didn't get the sense that it was going to show up. I'd suggest that other people post there as well, the more people request it the more likely they are to add a feature like this. Here's what I posted:

    Strava needs segments that aren't visible to the population at large and don't show up in the segment explorer. Suppose I have a trail on my sprawling 1000 acre ranch that me and my buddies race on. We want to keep the leaderboard, but not have people finding it on strava and coming and riding on my property without an invitation. Here's how this could work.

    1) Allow segments to be marked private/hidden (different from the current definiton of private segments...)
    2) private/hidden segments don't show up in segment explorer
    3) People can only see private/hidden segment leaderboards if they've ridden the trail
    4) private/hidden segments don't show up in your profile except to your followers
    5) If 5 or more people request it a segment becomes private/hidden.

    Thanks for your consideration!


    Post up here if your request gets posted for public comment so others can chime in.

    Thanks
    slide

  66. #66
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    Done- this will be like the 4th time I've requested this. I told them I'm hopping ship if a similar product comes out with these functions.

  67. #67
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    I, for one, do appreciate publicly shared GPS trails. I usually ride alone, due to time constraints and most of my friends having different interests, and I had no means to get that information previously. I did not grew up in the area.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide mon View Post
    5) If 5 or more people request it a segment becomes private/hidden.
    First thing I will do is opening 5 accounts and hiding the whole damn everything.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by datenschwanz View Post
    Dude! Wh|y are you even talking about fight club???

    EDIT: Also, why the hell do I only have 9 rep power??
    now you have 10.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    now you have 10.
    Hmmmm. Hey, how come I only have 11.

    -slide

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I dunno... my beer might be empty, but my glass is half full. Maybe if "the authorities" see that these no-bike trails are ridden a ton and there are zero injuries and deaths, they'll come to grips that mt. biking ought not be banned from said trails.....
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Maybe there's a silver lining to all this, that increased traffic all of a sudden is a way of mainstreaming these areas and making it clear that it's not just the activity of some "rogue elements" (or pick whatever alarmist tag The Other Side might use in a MarinIJ rant). I know it's risky -- and I'm not sure I buy the argument myself, just thinking aloud -- but it might be time for a new strategy. At a certain size, our constituency won't be as easy to ignore by those pesky elected officials, and this is a way of making those numbers evident.
    it works that way sometimes.

    there's a state park where i ride that is in the process of officially opening 'undocumented' trails that have been ridden regularly for over 15 years.

    Rangers are coming to realize that there is virtually zero trail conflict, most users a good stewards, we keep the riff-raff out....and we are enjoying the outdoors....which is generally a good thing.
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by slide mon View Post
    Hmmmm. Hey, how come I only have 11.

    -slide

    you're closer to 12 now
    Click Here for Forum Rules

  73. #73
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    Adios Strava

    Until strava does something about it I'm out. I took down all my tracks. I didn't have many KOM's, but I had some second and thirds and top 10's that I was pretty psyched about and it hurt a little to take those down. But screw it, it never felt right and there's indirect evidence that a couple trails were logged in response to an increase of activity on those trails on strava. That's enough for me.

    Thinking I might upload tracks for a day or so post ride so I can still share with friends but mark them private after that so there's no history. Compromise.

    slide

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    what? no...
    Only once in 20-plus years of riding did someone refuse to hit the contraband. "There's a reason the sign's there," he said.

    Then again, he was also worried about being arrested as an accessory to pot smoking.

  75. #75
    > /dev/null 2&>1
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    Edit: sorry, didn't realize old thread. Contributed to unwanted revival . . . Nothing to see here.
    Last edited by Procter; 12-14-2012 at 07:44 PM.

  76. #76
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    sweet revive...Slide, ur **** has staying power bro.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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