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  1. #1
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    Rangers passing out flyers today....

    Two rangers were out at rincon parking lot this afternoon around 2:00 putting these flyers on windshields and giving them directly to anyone in the lot. I took a pic of it to post here but it ain't happening so I'll just quote what it says....

    (the first part is in large, bold type w/ pic of ranger badge next to it)
    WARNING TO MOUNTAIN BIKERS

    "The area of Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park which lies between Highway Nine and UCSC has always been closed to bikes and dogs due to the sensitive habitat. The Ranger staff has not been enforcing the rule (CCR 4360) due to the lack of staffing. However, staffing is back up to levels whic will allow us to enforce the NO BIKE rules for this section of the park.

    Starting Sunday, February 18, 2009, any bike entering or leaving he above listed section of Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park may receive a citation for riding in an Area Closed To Bicycles (CCR 4360) and Destruction of Plants (CCR 4306). We are allowing a few weeks to adjust to the renewed enforcement and encourage you to use the designated trails of UCSC and Pogonip for your "Single Track" riding.

    If this flyer is on our windshield, we have recorded your license plate as proof of notification."

    Nice enough guys (just doing their job), but did find it kind of ironic that now that thier "staffing is back up to levels which will allow us to enforce the NO BIKE rules for this section of the park." Didn't I just see somewhere that the State is broke??

    Scare tactics?? Gotta wonder too if the sheer # of trucks w/ trailers full of bikes shuttling these hills had anything to do w/ it (2 of them passed as we talked to the rangers).
    Could be a gold mine for the state if they do follow thru. Any thoughts???

  2. #2
    Proud lame eBiker
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr
    Any thoughts???
    I'm about done with backwards state man.
    Idaho and Oregon are looking better and better the more I hear of this type of beaurocratic bs.
    Go do something constructive with the monies.

    I would think the officers who've been on duty and never busted bikes should be stripped of their badge and brought up on contempt for allowing this to happen while on their watch.

    Why the big need to start enforcing it now?

    And "we recorded your plate for proof..." Give me a flyen break.....useless threats y a bully with a mock badge.



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  3. #3
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    any tips on where the line is crossed?

    I love riding the UCSC single-track either side of Chinquapin and up on towards Empire Grade. Have never known where a descent towards Hwy 9 becomes illegal... is it posted on the trails as you drop in from UCSC?

    We've got all these issues of law and order, a civil society, and then, gee, haven't you got better regs to enforce?

    Something must be driving enforcement, maybe citation revenues...? or, maybe the public are complaining?

    bike-policing does seem like an odd use of taxpayer dollars {{I got a radar ticket on St. Joe's a year or so back - people just laugh at me when I tell them that... rangers with radar guns???}}, but I'm still not going to advocate getting rid of rangers - those guys do lots of good things!

  4. #4
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    It sounds like fair warning to me.

    Take it for what it is. If you choose to ride outside that limit it is up to you and I don't want to hear no sniveling about a fine.

  5. #5
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    The answer is simple:

    However, staffing is back up to levels whic will allow us to enforce the NO BIKE rules for this section of the park.
    Threaten to have the staffing reduced. Start leaving flyers about that if the rangers are not serving the community, get rid of the rangers.

  6. #6
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    With the closing of the trail that lets you exit stage right before fully delivering the mail, it appears to be an assault from all directions

  7. #7
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    which trails does this include?
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJensen
    which trails does this include?
    There was a No Bikes sign at the top of Sweetness about 5 years ago.
    I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing signs popping up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr
    Two rangers were out at rincon parking lot this afternoon around 2:00 putting these flyers on windshields and giving them directly to anyone in the lot. I took a pic of it to post here but it ain't happening so I'll just quote what it says....

    (the first part is in large, bold type w/ pic of ranger badge next to it)
    WARNING TO MOUNTAIN BIKERS

    "The area of Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park which lies between Highway Nine and UCSC has always been closed to bikes and dogs due to the sensitive habitat. The Ranger staff has not been enforcing the rule (CCR 4360) due to the lack of staffing. However, staffing is back up to levels whic will allow us to enforce the NO BIKE rules for this section of the park.

    Starting Sunday, February 18, 2009, any bike entering or leaving he above listed section of Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park may receive a citation for riding in an Area Closed To Bicycles (CCR 4360) and Destruction of Plants (CCR 4306). We are allowing a few weeks to adjust to the renewed enforcement and encourage you to use the designated trails of UCSC and Pogonip for your "Single Track" riding.

    If this flyer is on our windshield, we have recorded your license plate as proof of notification."
    This program started today. I was notified this afternoon.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr
    Nice enough guys (just doing their job), but did find it kind of ironic that now that thier "staffing is back up to levels which will allow us to enforce the NO BIKE rules for this section of the park." Didn't I just see somewhere that the State is broke??

    Scare tactics?? Gotta wonder too if the sheer # of trucks w/ trailers full of bikes shuttling these hills had anything to do w/ it (2 of them passed as we talked to the rangers).
    Could be a gold mine for the state if they do follow thru. Any thoughts???
    I don't believe that they got additional funding for rangers. Not in this economic climate. However, the tensions between local residents towards shuttlers have been escalating over the past year and the State Parks management have to address these complaints. They are not happy with the proliferation of trails and complaints from the neighbors so starting an enforcement program to nail mountain bikers allow them to accomplish a couple of goals.

    1. address the concerns of the local residents.

    2. Capitalize on the potentially lucrative revenue stream.

    The party is over. There never were any trails in Santa Cruz so no harm, no foul.

  10. #10
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    question: "which trails does this include?"
    answer: all the fun ones!! (of course)

    They kindly explained that once you ride up Pogonip and Uconn to the top where the signage post is, everything on the right side of the fire road as you head towards the tanks, is considered off limits as far as they are concerned. Those who have been ticketed in this area in the past know it aint a cheap one either....in the few hundred dollar range from what i hear. I didn't bother asking them, since i don't ride those trails anyways Oh well, I suspect they will keep close tabs at first until they start seeing the desired results

  11. #11
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    I am guessing the shear number of trucks shuttling riders up is precisely what is driving the sudden interest in making this "illegal" pastime catch notice of some officials. It is quite possible that drivers on the road may have complained about riders coming off of the bottom of MCR, etc... where it kind of just dumps you down onto the road. Little shoulder, some people who should not be driving winding roads, etc... leads to complaints or potential accidents. Also, potential revenues for citing the people on the trails is another place where the state sees an opportunity for making some $$$. Last time I was down those trails (been over a year since I have ridden down to 9 that way) there were no signs. Be interesting to see if there are any put up. If you are going to ride those trails, carry a camera that date/time stamps and photograph the top of the trail before you start down. Then if you get accosted, argue that there is no signage and you have a picture to prove it. They can take your bike, but they can't take your camera. (Might be a good idea to have a couple of people photo that, in case one person shows a shot and they DO take your camera, you have one to back it up!) If there is a sign, and you get caught, then, you deserve it. If there is no sign - I'd fight it and press charges for abuse of power and theft of property if they take your bike. Like said before, there are a lot of better things that we should have our rangers do than to keep bicycles off of trails that I have never seen a hiker on before...
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  12. #12
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    Time

    for me to move...
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

    The party is over. There never were any trails in Santa Cruz so no harm, no foul.
    When does the "Nothing to see here" approach stop being beneficial?

  14. #14
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    I got one of these fliers. It's easy money for the state. They can just sit at the bottom of the trails on the highway and nab people as they come down. Somebody came up with this bright idea and is a hero. I wanted to tell the rangers that they should take the weekends off to spend time with their families.

    One funny thing I noticed is that February 18 is a Wednesday. Maybe start staffing somebody who can read a calendar.

  15. #15
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    i hope those people who shuttle have fun popping out onto 9 and getting popped with a ticket. will teach them to learn to pedal up
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJensen
    i hope those people who shuttle have fun popping out onto 9 and getting popped with a ticket. will teach them to learn to pedal up
    People who shuttle may or may not have provoked the situation but it doesn't look like they will be the only ones who get popped.

  17. #17
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    Try asking the Park Superintendent for bike access, work with them to mitigate the reasons given to deny access.

  18. #18
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    Where's Blue Shorts right now?

    "I told you so"

    Anyone that did not see this coming was either in complete and utter denial, or is just a fool...

    Ain't this a peach
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  19. #19
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    It's going to be another temporary funding source. Once the tickets start coming, the trails will empty. Then the State Parks will have one less bright idea to bring in revenue.

  20. #20
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    maybe turn your lights on?

    with the minor amount of rain we've had in ca this season it's probably better that these trails close. they're gettin tore up and it's become a highway on the weekends. the no bikes sign @ the top of "****%$$" has been there a long time (longer than 5 yrs ago), people just vandalize it. maybe the folks w/full on dh bikes/armor and nice trucks can afford those tickets. you'd think w/most of 'em gettin busted you may get lucky/be off the hook.

    if this weather holds, summer will begin with a dry dusty hardpan forest (well close). folks need to recognize that ca problems are larger than just not being able to ride their mtbs in the forest, look at the big picture and our natural resources (water particularly).

    it's time to leave your full suspension bikes at home and break out the rigids. go ride wilder, fireroads, awesome views, and you know where the singletrack is at, keep it/bring back old school style. all i know is that 70 degree weather and short sleeves at the beginning of february just aint right.

  21. #21
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    You notice the OP said "in Rincon parking lot fliers were handed out?"

    If you pop out on 9 then your fair game.

    How far up the hill are they willing to go?

    Stay under the canopy and climb back up?

    Seems like they are targeting the FR/DH groups.

    I get over there occasionally but they are going to have to work a little to find me in there....

  22. #22
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    Shuttlers ruining it for everyone. Typical, if you can't ride up you shouldn't be riding down.

    If they've got enough staff for "no bike" enforcment, then they should have plenty for catching the smash-n-grab thieves at the Demo forest parking lot.

  23. #23
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    This soon will pass! Not like there are trails there anyway!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfreak
    This soon will pass! Not like there are trails there anyway!
    so true!

  25. #25
    zon
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    So trying to get a mental picture of the targeted area in the flier,, are they saying the area from UCSC down to 9 or or they talking about the stuff on the other side from the tracks up to Henry Cowell along Gram Hill Road? Or all of it??
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  26. #26
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    Get the word out, Lay low for awhile and DON'T SHUTTLE ON THOSE ROADS! There's good places to shuttle that make sence... thats not one of them. Small tight roads that resident's likely don't want unessary traffic on.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantdrive65
    ....They can just sit at the bottom of the trails on the highway and nab people as they come down.
    Sounds to me like we can ride there all we want as long as you stop well before the end of the trail and push/ride back up. Hopefully the rangers won't want to climb up far from the highway and stay in their trucks

  28. #28
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    Fwiw

    This may be a meaningless distinction, but State park property begins a couple hundred feet North of the Chinquapin FR. As was mentioned above there is a small sign on a post about that distance in from the FR. Several years ago a friend almost literally ran into a ranger up in that part of the "Ridge" tr. looked like he was doing some sort of survey, w/ a GPS.
    I wouldn't make too many assumptions about where they will patrol or write tickets. I'd guess some determined soul will build a new exit somewhere that might bypass the enforcement for awhile.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    So trying to get a mental picture of the targeted area in the flier,, are they saying the area from UCSC down to 9 or or they talking about the stuff on the other side from the tracks up to Henry Cowell along Gram Hill Road? Or all of it??
    Specifically, the target area is from UC down to 9, since this is where most of the action is. There is NO other side!

  30. #30
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    Let's rally on 02/18/2009. We'll all just sit in the parking lot on our bikes for a few hours and let the rangers scramble to figure out what they're going to do.



    And not to worry... Rangers are state employees. Once they start getting IOU's instead of paychecks, they'll stop showing up to ticket people because they'll stop showing up to work.
    Meh.

  31. #31
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    True!

  32. #32
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    I'm not surprised at all, not just because of the shuttling, but because of the new trails popping up all the time. I rode up there for the first time in 2 years last Fall, and couldn't believe how much it changed (yes it was way fun). Without some kind of regulation, trailbuilding will continue, more people will ride it, the environment will suffer, and they will crack down.

    And self-regulation? Not gonna happen.

    It seems we've reached the tipping point.

    I don't personally think just "laying low" is the solution to this problem. Of course it's a pipe dream to think some agreement could be reached whereby the trails become maintained...so I got nothin'.

    And shuttling - it's just sad to me that for some people "mountain biking" involves using a car or truck and burning fossil fuels to get uphill.

  33. #33
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    It's a bummer for sure, those trails are pretty fun. However, we as mountain bikers have been breaking the law there for a long time and it has gone unenforced. But apparently there is enough money now to throw at the problem and they're going to try to catch some rascals. There needs to be some sort of action taken on behalf of the mountain biking community to try to regain access in that area; go to town hall meetings, make petitions and submit them to the state congress, get the hiking community on our side, do more voluntary trail maintenence, etc. etc. We need to show the Stat and state employees that we're not bad people and we want to work with them to gain and maintain any and all access that could protentially be granted in the future. It'll be a "baby steps" kind of thing, maybe we'll get one trail back, maybe two, maybe all of them. The thing to consider though is that any increased access in the future is 100% better than it is now. So lets band together to be nice, courteous, and professional people who have a respect for the land and a desire to work with the powers that be in order to re-gain access.

    One thing to consider for the reasoning of the rangers is all of the trails that have been built there by mountain bikers. The park is probably not to stoked on the fact that there are trails with huge (and potentially dangerous) jumps and stunts on them. Building there makes the natural terrain an eyesore to the rangers, Building also tears up the ground which hurts the environment. The rangers could be pissed by that.

  34. #34
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    Maybe the actual cost of allowing bikers in there has reached the tipping point, wonder how much the helicopter rides and lawsuits have to do with this.

  35. #35
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    Good idea on the ralley Mike ,Im in!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC
    Maybe the actual cost of allowing bikers in there has reached the tipping point, wonder how much the helicopter rides and lawsuits have to do with this.
    bingo! the cost of non-enforcement has now outweighed the cost of enforcement, so they will bring it! i have heard from sources that recent heli-rides have resulted in lawsuits from parents that became angry when their precious snowflakes air ambulance bill came in.

    as a local - i've seen the sheer numbers of riders increase 100 fold just over the last couple seasons. just look at Rincon lot on a Sat at 11am ... looks like Downieville in season =) I don't think it helps to have factory sponsored rides parking their huge vans and pickups in the same lot.

    I don't hold any 'locals only' prejudices, but the fact is these trails have gone through the normal lifecycle of any illegal trail system:

    DEATH OF A SINGLETRACK
    SHUTTLING TO THE END

    -Stage one-

    An auto-accessible road that leads to a popular hiking trail attracts mountain bikers who shuttle the uphill and coast down the singletrack. Hikers and equestrians who use the trail are treated well by most cyclists and a period of tense cooperation between users is established.
    -Stage two-
    Mountain bikers practice the trail to the point where everyone in the area can ride it at top speed. Groups who shuttle together begin to race just for fun. Passive trail user, including mountain bikers, abandon the trail. They can no longer enjoy the route because they feel it is too dangerous, or have simply grown tired of having to watch out for speeders.
    -Stage three-
    New mountain bikers begin to shuttle the trail who never encounter hikers or equestrians. They believe that the trail is and has always been a "mountain bike only" route. When they finally do meet hikers, they curse them for not getting out of the way.
    -Final Stage-
    Traditional trail users feel cheated because they have been driven off by mountain bikers. Bound by anger, they group together and lobby successfully to have bikes banned from all the local trails - not just the ones that can be shuttled.

    ENFORCEMENT ENSUES!
    \sigma_T\sigma_x \geq \tfrac{\hbar}{2m} \left|\left\langle p_x\right\rangle\right|.

  37. #37
    MDJ
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    You guys got it all wrong. I spoke to the rangers and this has nothing to do with dowhillers and shuttlers. The local NIMBY group petitioned the state to crack down on bikes for another reason. They were getting disgusted with the large number of lycra-clad rigid 29ers showing up and ruining a good sport.



  38. #38
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    Hey, if it boosts money to keep the state parks running, then I'm all for it. Keep up the shuttling, guys.

    (I'm going to run and duck for cover now...)

  39. #39
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    Seems to me use in that area has just gotten too big to ignore.

    If it was just about the revenue, they'd be charging to park at Rincon and in the turnouts. I'm amazed they don't already. The couple of state parks I know of elsewhere in California with highways running through them, the rangers will stop and ask to see your entrance pass if you park along the road.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felton_Flyer
    bingo! the cost of non-enforcement has now outweighed the cost of enforcement, so they will bring it! i have heard from sources that recent heli-rides have resulted in lawsuits from parents that became angry when their precious snowflakes air ambulance bill came in.

    as a local - i've seen the sheer numbers of riders increase 100 fold just over the last couple seasons. just look at Rincon lot on a Sat at 11am ... looks like Downieville in season =) I don't think it helps to have factory sponsored rides parking their huge vans and pickups in the same lot.

    I don't hold any 'locals only' prejudices, but the fact is these trails have gone through the normal lifecycle of any illegal trail system:

    DEATH OF A SINGLETRACK
    SHUTTLING TO THE END

    -Stage one-

    An auto-accessible road that leads to a popular hiking trail attracts mountain bikers who shuttle the uphill and coast down the singletrack. Hikers and equestrians who use the trail are treated well by most cyclists and a period of tense cooperation between users is established.
    -Stage two-
    Mountain bikers practice the trail to the point where everyone in the area can ride it at top speed. Groups who shuttle together begin to race just for fun. Passive trail user, including mountain bikers, abandon the trail. They can no longer enjoy the route because they feel it is too dangerous, or have simply grown tired of having to watch out for speeders.
    -Stage three-
    New mountain bikers begin to shuttle the trail who never encounter hikers or equestrians. They believe that the trail is and has always been a "mountain bike only" route. When they finally do meet hikers, they curse them for not getting out of the way.
    -Final Stage-
    Traditional trail users feel cheated because they have been driven off by mountain bikers. Bound by anger, they group together and lobby successfully to have bikes banned from all the local trails - not just the ones that can be shuttled.

    ENFORCEMENT ENSUES!
    you're not local, you're a tranny just like da rest! i heard you wanna buy a dh bike and get rid of your spandex!

  41. #41
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    sorry, double post. beaverbiker, that's what i was tryin to subversively promote in my first post.

  42. #42
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    Buy some lights, ride the trails at night. Problem solved.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by nativeson
    you're not local, you're a tranny just like da rest! i heard you wanna buy a dh bike and get rid of your spandex!
    zing!
    ha - i've been discovered, you nailed me.
    (hey at least I was riding over the weekend, where were you? prolly doing some artsy fartsy bullshyte =)
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felton_Flyer
    zing!
    ha - i've been discovered, you nailed me.
    (hey at least I was riding over the weekend, where were you? prolly doing some artsy fartsy bullshyte =)
    road ridin rode down to pebble beach/monterey saturday, yesterday out to san juan bautista. trails are gettin too crowded. here's to weekdays and switchin da clocks.

  45. #45
    Snowjnky McDreamy
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    is that parking lot in santa cruz or felton?
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  46. #46
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    This was bound to happen. I'm sure State Parks justifies the crack down based on resource protection. Too many unauthorized trails, getting more and more use, wide and wider, loss of vegetation, bare slopes formerly covered by duff now eroding, loss of undisturbed habitat as the area is fragmented and criss-crossed by trails, etc. And the neighbors complaining about drivers' behavior on their private road. Tipping point reached.

    I would assume that they will put a lot of energy into closing and obliterating the trails to restore the habitat. They will probably do this at the same time they crack down with enforcement. I would also assume anyone caught in there trying to re-open or build new trails will get a nasty citation and court date.

    Patty
    "...So forget all your duties, oh yeah! Fat bottomed girls, they'll be riding today..." Freddie Mercury

  47. #47
    Snowjnky McDreamy
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    Damn...just when I was going to start a shuttle service company.
    Brother Seamus?
    Like an Irish monk?
    Comic relief in a discussion does no harm..
    CS Lewis
    Quadzilla

  48. #48
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    no doubt... If your riding there on a weekend in the middle of the day it's going to draw attention.
    I like the idea of getting together with the State Park on some volentier trail work day's. It's working for us over here in Toro Park. There's one planned for this coming saturday 10am to 2pm. We are working on a non bikeing trail this time to try and gain a little more leagal access down the road. And it's a rtail used in the CCCX races.

  49. #49
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    Demo just became more crowded

    people are going to find places to ride... The trail system grew, right or wrong, because other trail system were crowded or not accessible. Most of the growth the is being complained about on this thread, occured while Demo was largely "inaccessible" due to the slide that closed highland way.

    The Demo Trail system is also growing with trails like Cusacks and "other" trails seeing a huge increase in traffic.

    Close the SC trails... guess where many of those people are going to go to ride...

    Why not charge to park at the lots off highway 9 and empire grade, use the moeny to put in port-a-potties and to build some trails that can withstand the traffic and that offer hikers and horses some place else to go....

  50. #50
    tastes like chicken
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    Quote Originally Posted by icantdrive65
    I got one of these fliers. It's easy money for the state. They can just sit at the bottom of the trails on the highway and nab people as they come down. Somebody came up with this bright idea and is a hero. I wanted to tell the rangers that they should take the weekends off to spend time with their families.

    One funny thing I noticed is that February 18 is a Wednesday. Maybe start staffing somebody who can read a calendar.
    Why do you think this is a mistake? Wednesday afternoon/evenings are busy at UC/Cowell. This program started Feb 1st then 2 weeks notice means enforcement should start on Sunday Feb 15th. Perhaps they pushed it out a few days out of respect to the Tour of California stop in Santa Cruz on Feb 16th. Who knows....

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