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  1. #1
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Saw an older (late 50s?) guy coming off of Gails into the parking lot on a pedal-assisted mountain bike.

    I didn't want to give him crap about it or start any drama, so I just silently judged him as he rode away.

    What are your guys thoughts on these contraptions on the trails?
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    I have heard a theory/interpretation that e-bikes can be regarded as "other" power mobility assist device under ADA, and anybody stating a disability (statement is sufficient) can ride it anywhere - including wilderness, PCT etc.. I wonder if that interpretation had been tested.

    I will certainly buy one once I can not ride a regular bike far enough due to age or illness.

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    Re: Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    You're talking ebikes right? Personally I think mountain bikers should take the lead on getting these things explicitly banned with signage (at the city , county and state park level) before the anti bike hiking groups start using them as a lever to get all bikes banned, park by park.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ddprocter View Post
    You're talking ebikes right? Personally I think mountain bikers should take the lead on getting these things explicitly banned with signage (at the city , county and state park level) before the anti bike hiking groups start using them as a lever to get all bikes banned, park by park.
    I'm with you on this. I feel like they're a bunch of bad apples that WILL spoil the whole bunch if left unchecked. (yeah, E-Bikes).
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    I thought all bikes are "pedal assisted". Without pedals you don't get anywhere.

    I would think that an electric power assisted bike's impact on the trail is about the same as a regular bike. As long as the rider doesn't take all the Strava uphill KOMs I'm not sure we should push to prohibit them, but please educate me why an older rider on an ebike is a "bad apple".
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL de Jong View Post
    I thought all bikes are "pedal assisted". Without pedals you don't get anywhere.

    I would think that an electric power assisted bike's impact on the trail is about the same as a regular bike. As long as the rider doesn't take all the Strava uphill KOMs I'm not sure we should push to prohibit them, but please educate me why an older rider on an ebike is a "bad apple".
    Yes, if you would like to be painfully literal, all bicycles are pedal assisted. However the bikes in question are not solely powered by the rider. The rider's pedaling is assisted by a small electric motor. We all know what happens when you put down too much power in a limited traction environment, and as many of us know, there are already NUMEROUS signs out at Boggs forbidding motorized vehicles. And motorized vehicles are not allowed on most trails that we all know and love.

    I don't think the riders age has anything whatsoever to do with the issue at hand, and that bit of info was only used to set the scene for my encounter. But I do think they are bad apples in that they are a motor vehicle that looks like a mountain bike. And as ddprocter said, I think it's important to distance ourselves from them before anti-bike groups use them as leverage to get all bikes banned from everywhere.

    Long story short, I think they're pose a threat to future of "normal" mountain bike access.
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    I've seen this coming for a while now and I think it's going to be really interesting to see where it heads. If there's one thing we know it's that technology does not wait for the decision makers to catch up. Look at what's happening with drones/UAV's right now.

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    Re: Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL de Jong View Post
    I thought all bikes are "pedal assisted". Without pedals you don't get anywhere.

    I would think that an electric power assisted bike's impact on the trail is about the same as a regular bike. As long as the rider doesn't take all the Strava uphill KOMs I'm not sure we should push to prohibit them, but please educate me why an older rider on an ebike is a "bad apple".
    First and foremost, because their presence is more threatening to hikers than non-motorized bikes, and thus could be used to a ) rally anti bike movements among hiking groups all over and b ) influence council members and trail access decision makers to ban all bikes.

    Anti-bike activists will use ebikes as a pandora's box argument, making the case that the long term goal of the biking community is to open access to all kinds of motorized vehicles. This could tip the balance of the debate towards banning bikes and cause lots of lost access to existing trails.

    Secondly, e-bikes WILL cause more trail damage because the same rider, given an ebike, can put in more hours on trail overall. This weekend I rode Watson lake and Watson creek single track outside of Tahoe City, and the weekend prior I rode Northstar and livewire/boondocks etc. The difference in the state of the two trail systems, less than a mile from each other, was enormous. At Northstar, Boondocks and other lift-served downhill trails, were a chopped up moondust mess, and this was opening weekend. Watson lake area single track, which is not lift served and requires some climbing, and has been open since the snow melted weeks before, was in extremely good condition by comparison. The difference is the amount of traffic the two trails get, and, ebikes will significantly increase the total miles logged, degrading trails faster.

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    OK, I agree that an ebike is a motorized vehicle and it shouldn't be in areas where it is clearly stated these are prohibited. The power to weight ratio of batteries keeps on improving and before we know it an ebike could have the same impact as a small dirt bike. Breaking the clearly stated law does make someone a "bad apple". I see your point there.
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    I met someone a while ago who had an ebike (emountain bike? whatever). He was an older guy, and was thrilled to finally have the opportunity to share a riding experience with his younger, healthier son. I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of that experience, and frankly, banning them sounds pretty darn able-ist. But I can also see how MTB opponents might engage the "slippery slope!" argument. Sigh, just another baby boomer mess that my generation will have to clean up...
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    Out on a run in the Marin Headlands I watched this guy wearing moto pants and a full face pedaling up one of the steepest single tracks (illegal for bikes) out of Pirates Cove. It did leave me with this sinking feeling, but I couldn't help but cheer as he went past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piranha426 View Post
    I met someone a while ago who had an ebike (emountain bike? whatever). He was an older guy, and was thrilled to finally have the opportunity to share a riding experience with his younger, healthier son. I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of that experience, and frankly, banning them sounds pretty darn able-ist. But I can also see how MTB opponents might engage the "slippery slope!" argument. Sigh, just another baby boomer mess that my generation will have to clean up...
    G'luck with that. So far your generation has only succeeded in tidying messes into politically correct piles that obscure the original issues.

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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Can't wait to get one and wreck havoc on the strava boards...finally my ego will be satisfied!

    In all seriousness, I think there's room and a place for them, but not anywhere/everywhere. Are they really any worse than a horse or an 8" travel downhill bike tearing up the local illegal ST? For those with disabilities I am open to them, for some areas.

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    What if these bikes looked basically the same as a "normal bike" under brief inspection and the noise was negligible. How would you even know that somebody was using one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by plantdude View Post
    Are they really any worse than a horse or an 8" travel downhill bike tearing up the local illegal ST?
    Yes they are worse - with an unmotorized, 8 inch travel bike, with the exception of shuttle-able rides, you must lug it up before you go down. This naturally limits the number of runs that I can do on my DH bike, which slows the rate of degradation of the trail. With a motor on it, that equation changes. Someone who could do 1 or 2 runs in a day can now do 4 or 6. Plus, more people who were too lazy to ride before will be drawn to the trails, further increasing the traffic. So, the trail gets f*d up way earlier in the season, requires more maintenance, and is less fun for everyone because of the congestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by plantdude View Post
    For those with disabilities I am open to them, for some areas.
    I don't think this will work. We see 'service dogs' everywhere now, for all sorts of people who have zero real disability or need for a true service animal. When you ask these people what service the dog is providing, they smirkingly share that they got their doc to write up a prescription for the dog, it provides them 'happiness'. Don't get me wrong - dog lover here. But its an example of how people will bypass the original intent of rules to get what they want. If your local Chevy's was open access to all dogs I think everyone could imagine what it would look like on a Friday night.

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    probably illegal at boggs

    22 miles of unimproved roads and more than 14 miles of non-motorized use trails

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    Pedal assist bicycles... I've gotten to ride a few now. I think they are super interesting and every year, the progress is impressive.

    Laws and prejudice in the US will make it very difficult for these bikes to get going here.

    They will grow in popularity and acceptance for sure. Probably the first areas are:

    - Commuter bikes. It's just a no-brainer for longer commutes and weaker/older riders.

    - shuttle trails, lift assisted. Downieville, Northstar, etc are mostly assisted trails. A pedal assist bike is closer there to current use.

    - big/wide america and the world. Trail access is not as crowded or contentious as Norcal. So pedal assist will probably start getting used in the wide open spaces in the US and the world.

    So, it will be a slow and interesting process/debate for these bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by plantdude View Post
    For those with disabilities I am open to them, for some areas.
    This raises questions for me. Clearly, any cyclist can fall, get hurt in the woods, and be stranded. But if I pop my chain, or bust a wheel, at least I can walk out of the park with my bike. If a handicapped person falls, or even encounters an obstacle that is intimidating them, what are they going to do? I don't think these things belong on ST, especially if the rider is handicapped. This is no prejudice from my end, just food for thought.
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    I thought they were called mopeds?
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  20. #20
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Ebikes do not belong on trails that prohibit motorized vehicle usage. I don't like hearing motors buzzing around, or people blasting their music.
    Last edited by shredchic; 06-16-2014 at 07:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Ebikes do not belong on trails that probibit motorized vehicle usage. I don't like hearing motors buzzing around, or people blasting their music.
    Most high end hubs are exponentially louder than an ebike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Most high end hubs are exponentially louder than an ebike.
    yeah, or what about avids? heavy breathers? squeaky bottom brackets? porkstacker?

    i don't think there is anything inherently wrong with an ebike. if a bike could delivery X supplemental watts two riders of different strength to weight ratios could ride together up a climb at the same perceived effort. there are a lot of applications where this could be beneficial.

    i also get the objections to having "eMotorcycles" out on trails alongside hikers and bikes. in ca, motorized bicycles are categorized as delivering < 1000w and going < 20 mph: V C Section 406 Motorized Bicycle why not have a classification that imposes lower limits? even a 100w boost would be huge for most folks and that's no where near enough to have it be considered emoto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Most high end hubs are exponentially louder than an ebike.
    No, actually, they are not.
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    I dunno.

    I don't like them, although I can't really articulate why. It's just a gut reaction to something that seems deceivingly innocuous. It's kinda like when jet skis--or kayakers--starting showing up in the surf lineup.

    Or when e-cigarettes popped up. Or when sharks starting being equipped with lasers.

    You just know that things will never be the same...
    Last edited by dirtvert; 06-17-2014 at 10:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    if a bike could delivery X supplemental watts two riders of different strength to weight ratios could ride together up a climb at the same perceived effort. there are a lot of applications where this could be beneficial.
    Beneficial how? Would the e-bikers get participation medals too?

  26. #26
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    IMO the DMV definition of "motorized bicycles" that modbog mentions is a reasonable "line in the sand". A 1000 watt pedal-assist that cuts power at 20 mph is a far cry from a 6KW twist-grip e-motocrosser.

    I'm happy sharing multi-use trails with the DMV-defined e-bikes; especially if the rider has some sort of a disability. (someday; we will all be there!)

    The 6KW twist-grip e-motocrossers need to go to the SVRA's, etc just like their petro-powered cousins.

    I was recently involved in a permitted event at Coe SP where the rangers approved the use of a couple of e-bikes; I was really, really, really surprised that they were allowed. (BTW JL de Jong was along for that event but on a "normal" MTB) The ranger's criteria seemed to be "does it look like a regular bicycle?" (which they did)

    For State Parks my crystal ball says that e-bikes will be allowed on fire/jeep roads; not allowed on single track.
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    Interesting this thread came up when it did. I'm thinking of making a DH eBike for myself. Each person has their reasons for riding an eBike. I have mine too. Be it age, disability, or whatever. Let's face it. To have pedal-assist uphill and not tire yourself out, sounds good to me.

    I was wondering about trail access and general acceptance, or lack thereof. If I did go with an eBike, I intend to avoid trails marked "No motorized vehicles." If its an electric motor or gas motor, its still motorized. If riding an eBike there, I'd assume you can get a ticket, and should get a ticket.

    As a user, I'd also avoid spinning the tires as much as possible to save the trails, slow down around other trail users, obey posted speed limits, ride not slide...all the same rules for regular bikes and trail courtesies that should be observed. I'm not looking to rip up the hills, just get to the top without killing myself on a long-travel DH bike that I could otherwise, not pedal up. Some others could but not I.

    I could see with the power that these eBikes could potentially have, there could easily be land misuse issues. But as it stands now, these bikes have to follow the same rules as any bike. I think perhaps the biggest issues that separate these eBikes from regular bikes are speed, noise levels, and spinning of tires. It seems then that the speed issue is addressed with posted speed limits on many trails, noise addressed by not allowing motorized vehicles. That leaves the issue of erosion. For now without postings on that, just like the "ride, don't slide" unwritten rule (at least not posted signs for that on many trails), the eBike users have to exercise caution on the power trigger.

    With the eBike technologies becoming better and more affordable, the MTB eBike is coming sooner or later. And why not get out there and enjoy the trails more? That's what the trails are for.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    Saw an older (late 50s?) guy coming off of Gails into the parking lot on a pedal-assisted mountain bike.

    I didn't want to give him crap about it or start any drama, so I just silently judged him as he rode away.

    What are your guys thoughts on these contraptions on the trails?
    Negating any argument for or against an E-Bike, it's a good thing you didn't approach him about his bike. That man has single handedly done more work in the Boggs Forrest than any other single person.. He can be thanked for the upkeep on all the campsites. The installation of all outhouses, picnic tables, and BBQ rings, A great deal of road maintenance, and countless hours of trail work. He would have been very quick to set you in your place about it all too. Joe, I'm not sure we're you are from, but it obviously ain't from round these parts..😉

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cobb View Post
    Joe, I'm not sure we're you are from, but it obviously ain't from round these parts..😉
    Yes, clearly - Note that I have all of my teeth. But seriously though, I kept the discussion about the e-bikes on trails rather than slander this guy, I said that he was older, which hinted at his possible need for one, but that was it. But yeah, that's why you don't just call strangers you don't know out, which I didn't.
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Back Aug of 2012 I started chemo and I wanted to ride as that is the only thing that cleared my mind. I would go out on the trails and ride but the days right after chemo were brutal. There were days that I was sure I was going to pass out on my 10 mile loop.

    When chemo ended i was left with a new problem (neuropathy) in my hands and feet which was exacerbated when I had to climb and exert more force on the pedals.

    On one of my rides I collapsed when I got off the bike because my feet hurt so bad.

    I am certain if I had a pedal assisted Bike it would've made riding more enjoyable and not a painful experience.

    A little over a year later I've learned how to deal with the pain and the good news is my neuropathy is getting better but not gone.

    So I am personally torn and I also think it would be awesome if my wife and I could ride together and similar speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Way2ManyBikes View Post
    Back Aug of 2012 I started chemo and I wanted to ride as that is the only thing that cleared my mind. I would go out on the trails and ride but the days right after chemo were brutal. There were days that I was sure I was going to pass out on my 10 mile loop.

    When chemo ended i was left with a new problem (neuropathy) in my hands and feet which was exacerbated when I had to climb and exert more force on the pedals.

    On one of my rides I collapsed when I got off the bike because my feet hurt so bad.

    I am certain if I had a pedal assisted Bike it would've made riding more enjoyable and not a painful experience.

    A little over a year later I've learned how to deal with the pain and the good news is my neuropathy is getting better but not gone.

    So I am personally torn and I also think it would be awesome if my wife and I could ride together and similar speed.
    Exactly, And you have every right to ride any bike you choose, regular bike or ebike, whatever. Go for it.
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    Old thread but great discussion too, mostly in favor of the eBike idea: Zumbi F44 prototype with Boosty electric motor system video
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    Yes, clearly - Note that I have all of my teeth. But seriously though, I kept the discussion about the e-bikes on trails rather than slander this guy, I said that he was older, which hinted at his possible need for one, but that was it. But yeah, that's why you don't just call strangers you don't know out, which I didn't.
    Good job Joe! PM me next time you are up, I can show you some of the locals routes.. Boggs is rad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cobb View Post
    Good job Joe! PM me next time you are up, I can show you some of the locals routes.. Boggs is rad!
    My family actually has a cabin in Ettawa, I've been riding Boggs for quite a while now, and before I was on this earth my Uncles rode their dirt bikes up there, but I'd love to see more of what Lake County has to offer, I will take you up on that. Hopefully no hard feelings about the thread?
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    It is really a matter of time. As long as one is fit enough and values the experience of muscular effort, leg powered transport will hold. At some point though when you get around 60 or so, you guys now at 45 or so will get passed by guys on these contraptions, your will shall crumble and you will get on the bandwagon of bikes. Heck, we already have a shuttle crowd so this is the nest step.

    For me, at 62, if I wanted a motorcycle I'd have taken it up years ago. As a Fail Safe, I have made a pact with my son to shoot me if I ever extol the virtues of those funny mirrors that attach to your helmet.
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    As a Fail Safe, I have made a pact with my son to shoot me if I ever extol the virtues of those funny mirrors that attach to your helmet.
    I am going to ask my daughters to do the same.
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    I basically feel that it's difficult for a land manager to decide where that line in the sand is drawn. Many states don't have a DMV definition of an ebike (I realize this is a regional forum), and the technology has been moving faster than legislation could.

    Full disclosure, I love ebikes (just not on trails). I personally built one of those 6kw throttle twisters, though in a longtail cargo bike (for hauling things, commuting, and fun on pavement). From experience I can tell you that it's easy to build a sleeper to satisfy the "looks like a bike" criterion.

    Given that, I feel that ebikes generally are a trail access risk. I'd personally rather see some of those legitimate use cases for ebikes not enjoyed for the time being than see a knee-jerk reaction from land managers that affects non-motorized mountain bikers.

    I posted the following in a thread of myitch's asking for specific experience re: ebikes, and it was pointed out that thread wasn't really the place for an anti-ebike-on-trail rant. So, I moved it over here. Please take all the condescension and vitriol as merely an expression of passion for the trails and not as a personal attack. Looking back on what I wrote, I feel like I lost a lot of nuance too. Anyway, here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405
    Quote Originally Posted by myitch View Post
    As long as the Ebike user is not spinning the tires fast enough to tear up the trails or fly past others causing danger or a nuisance I see no problem with them. So I'd like to hear from someone who has done this conversion on their long travel bike.
    You're going to get a lot of hate here for asking that sort of question (it isn't personal). Mountain bikers as a community have to try to police our own, though. If you've ever been told not to ride on muddy trails, this is 50x worse.

    So let's say for argument's sake you used a motor to self-shuttle, bombing down a trail under muscle power and then motoring up the road, I in principle wouldn't have a problem with that - it seems on the surface like a reasonable use case. But, it opens up a whole set of problems that don't have easy solutions.

    How many riders do you expect to never be tempted to give it a little throttle on the way down? It's right there, and it's so easy. Don't have quite enough speed approaching a jump? Just give it a little power and problem solved, right? But at that point, you have motor vehicles operating on the trails.

    So what's the big deal, if you're not tearing up trails or causing danger to other trail users? The problem is that not everyone would ride that way, and it's hard to tell who the responsible rider are.

    Land managers need to be able to protect their resources - it's their first job. We get access to their parks by convincing them that mountain biking is a sustainable activity that protects the resource while allowing the public to recreate. Impact is minimized because trails are limited to a narrow 18" band of single track, trails are built in a sustainable way to minimize erosion, and trails can be used for a variety of non-motorized purposes. If you have motor vehicles on trails, it becomes much more difficult to convince a land manager that resources are protected.

    A motorcycle - and an e-bike - could start bushwacking, making its own trails. It's a surefire way to get a ton of fall line climbs (which turn into wide eroded POS scar on the earth mess of a trail), when motorized climb steep things by grabbing throttle.

    Motorized users can travel faster, and more importantly they can accelerate much faster. They have higher vehicle weights and different erosion-causing characteristics. With the extra power of a motor, you can tolerate the higher rolling resistance and rotating weight of a bigger tire. A downhill tire might be 2.5" wide, but motocross tires are often 4+" wide. A large knobby downhill tire causes reasonably low erosion because there's relatively low torque being applied to it. If you start applying motor power to it or try bringing a 400lb vehicle-and-rider to a stop, you get tread erosion you just don't see in pedal-driven usage.

    But e-bikes are different - they aren't motorcycles, right? Then where do you draw the line between an e-bike and an electric motorcycle? Is it curb weight, geometry, whether it has a pedalable drivetrain, whether it uses bicycle or motorcycle components? Right now on the market there are complete bikes everywhere on that spectrum. Good luck trying to split those hairs. How about power output or torque or something similar? I promise you that if you can fit a 500w system on a bike, you can turn it into a 2000w system that would look identical to the untrained eye. Do you expect forest rangers to have to identify whether a user has a 20 amp motor controller or a 130 amp controller on their bike (and write a ticket accordingly)?

    So you've set up a situation where you can't distinguish between "legitimate" e-bike users and motorcycle-like e-bike usage. That is untenable from a land manager's point of view. They either need to allow motorized use (and the potential user conflict and resource damage involved), or they need to ban e-bikes and other motorized travel, or they need to ban all bicycles. If it isn't easy to tell the differences between a mountain bike and an e-bike and the difference between an e-bike and a motorcycle, I don't think it's too hard to imagine some land managers taking the easiest route - banning all bikes.

    So, in closing, I think e-bikes are great. I think everyone should be able to enjoy their preferred method of recreation, and if that involves a motor, you should be able to have fun. In places where motorized use is allowed - and there are many, including single track - I don't see any problem with e-bikes. But riding an e-bike on a trail on public land designated for non-motorized use only jeopardizes trail access for everyone.

    So no, please do not bring an e-bike on the (non-motorized) public trails. It can have consequences for everyone, undermining volunteer work to build and maintain trails and threatening trail closures. If you still choose to, you are selfish, and f*ck you.

  38. #38
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    Re: Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Interestingly, I just saw fresh green "no assisted bikes or scooters" signs at the beginning of the bike path on Sunday.

    sent remotely

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    No, actually, they are not.
    "Exponentially" was probably a stretch but I've been passed by a few of them around town and they are not loud at all. They will only get quieter, faster and lighter in the next few years too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by modbog View Post
    yeah, or what about avids? heavy breathers? squeaky bottom brackets? porkstacker?
    Funny.
    Also known as Menso's dad.

  41. #41
    I like mtn biking, too
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazarus2405 View Post
    Given that, I feel that ebikes generally are a trail access risk. I'd personally rather see some of those legitimate use cases for ebikes not enjoyed for the time being than see a knee-jerk reaction from land managers that affects non-motorized mountain bikers.
    ^ 'xactly
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
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  42. #42
    I like mtn biking, too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    "Exponentially" was probably a stretch but I've been passed by a few of them around town and they are not loud at all. They will only get quieter, faster and lighter in the next few years too.
    They are not loud around town because there is other, louder traffic noise to mask it. Out in the woods, where it's quiet, it's a really annoying buzzing. Same thing with drones (yes, people are now flying drones in the National Parks). Anyway - the noise isn't the biggest issue for me - the biggest issue is making people even more annoyed with mountain bikers than they already are, and land mgrs. more willing to ban all bikes.
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
    ~Fairfaxian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    "As a Fail Safe, I have made a pact with my son to shoot me if I ever extol the virtues of those funny mirrors that attach to your helmet.
    'I am going to ask my daughters to do the same. '"

    I would think that oblivious and in denial road boulders are the ones that deserve to be shot, not the conscientious bikers that are wearing mirrors, paying attention to what is coming up behind them and yielding the way. What am I missing here?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Out in the woods, where it's quiet, it's a really annoying buzzing.
    Exactly. We should outlaw Kings and Hope hubs.

  45. #45
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    If we can't tar and feather the culprits, I vote for e-bikes so long as they are speed limited to 15mph. Soon enough, I'll need one to go up the mountains, so there.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dope pedaler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    "As a Fail Safe, I have made a pact with my son to shoot me if I ever extol the virtues of those funny mirrors that attach to your helmet.
    'I am going to ask my daughters to do the same. '"

    I would think that oblivious and in denial road boulders are the ones that deserve to be shot, not the conscientious bikers that are wearing mirrors, paying attention to what is coming up behind them and yielding the way. What am I missing here?
    The joke
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

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    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

    CCCMB trail work for trail access - SLO, CA

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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Ebikes do not belong on trails that prohibit motorized vehicle usage.
    I think the issue is as simple as this. ^^^^^^

  49. #49
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    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    They are not loud around town because there is other, louder traffic noise to mask it. Out in the woods, where it's quiet, it's a really annoying buzzing. Same thing with drones (yes, people are now flying drones in the National Parks). Anyway - the noise isn't the biggest issue for me - the biggest issue is making people even more annoyed with mountain bikers than they already are, and land mgrs. more willing to ban all bikes.
    If you think they are a bad idea in parks and threaten our already shaky access, that's a perfectly fine argument. I would tend to agree with you. The noise issue to me is negligible though. We all have our pet peeves out on the trails and if this is yours that's fine. I find big group rides or people riding with ear buds far more annoying personally. I think we have all "whooped" louder than an ebike hundreds of times.

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