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  1. #176
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    The DMV limits ebikes to 1000w. Then they are motor driven cycles.

    On the trails, if it looks like a mtn bike with a thermos and a drum brake, it probably is OK. If it looks like a motorcycle, it probably should be ridden where motorcycles are allowed.

    LOWEST LIFE FORM RULE: We have some people with no self control or sense of fair play. If you want to cater the the lowest life form rule, then banning ebikes and 8" suspension bikes from many multi use trails would make sense.

    Too bad people who are stealthy and responsible will get caught in the crossfire.

    The ideal spot for e-assist is from Terra Linda to the 680 trail, which is a steep climb.

  2. #177
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    It's saddening to say, but within my experience and understanding as an advocate and trail builder I cannot see ebikes being net positive as far as future access goes.
    If anything I could see this being helpful to the motorized group as a way of minimizing their impact to trails (particularly backcountry). Minimizing as far as tread inpact, noise, emissions... But I cannot see people who ride motorcycles rushing towards what would be effectively a backwards move in performance in their ride experience.
    But I digress. The old addage "earn your turns" aside, the fact remains that if ebikes gain popularity and are lumped within our user group it will provide more of a burdensome challenge than a boon. We for years had been lumped together in planning by the forest service alongside moto's, and only recently have had separation. So this does nothing but blur this delineation. And if you are unaware of the struggles of the motorized user-group just spend a moment wading thru one of their forums to get a taste, concerning their shrinking access over the years.
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  3. #178
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    I have:
    street motorcycles
    dirt motorcycles
    mtn bikes
    electric zappy scooter
    and now... ebike

    I pretty much know the right tool for the job, where things do and don't belong.

    I bought the electric bike mainly due to my son most likely never being able to drive. (Long story) I want to extend his range.

    My friend is raising his son riding an Oset electric trials bike. They have bicycles for multi use paths.

  4. #179
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by KevXR View Post
    I picked up a used eBike to see how much power is needed. I knew the first purchase would be a learning lesson, go for a cheap lesson.

    EVC 500W eBike
    Lead acid batteries
    Basically the Model T of ebikes.
    Fun to ride up hills. Would get beaten to death on any trail.
    Once the battery is deal, it is like a sled with flat tires.

    Not my bike, but mine looks like it.
    Attachment 902876
    Cool moped!

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Cool moped!
    Cool e-moped.
    These bikes are like crack if you're not ultra fit and aren't the KOM type.

    I need to make a repair, but if you're in the San Rafael area, PM me for a test ride. This really is Model T level.

    (Evil thought, wouldn't it be fun to take an ebike and bust a few KOM records. Not for bragging rights, to get people to calm the F down. Not run over people or get killed.)

  6. #181
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    >Evil thought, wouldn't it be fun to take an ebike and bust a few KOM records

    You don't even need to buy an e-bike, there is software to speed you up.

    See: DigitalEPO.com

  7. #182
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Some dbag came up behind me on an ebike while I was riding uphill at paradise Royale. Damn near running me over as I fell to the side trying to save my keester. He did the same thing to my two other buds I was riding with. My opinion of the things are pretty set after that experience. I don't care what the power rating is... It had a motor it doesn't belong on "non-motorized" trails period. I'm not against motorized recreation, I have ridden dirt bikes my whole life and I race an off-road buggy. IMO these will do nothing good for existing multi-use/Mtb only trails. Nothing.
    I hope you have a big trunk... cause I'm gonna put my bike in it!

  8. #183
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    We can't all take the blame for a few dbag mtb'ers, why should ebikes as a whole get a bad rep from this incident?
    I don't rattle.

  9. #184
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Because the reality is the few always ruin it for the many regardless of what the topic is.
    I hope you have a big trunk... cause I'm gonna put my bike in it!

  10. #185
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    loving this thread

    I am loving this thread. Given my injury I can't yet ride the ebike on the bike on the dirt. Having ridden mtn bikes, road bikes and dirt bikes for 25 years I am pretty skeptical that this crop of ebikes can do much on a serious trail like I used to ride. The 50 weight alone with pretty poor suspension makes it tough to think it could even handle most trails around here.

    On a side note don't take Levaquain or Cipro, I could ride 5 hours one day and not walk the next... from one dose. The pain is so absurd it makes the tonsillectomy I got for my 40th look like childs play.

    I hope to get back on a real bike as soon as I can, but for now the ebike is keeping me alive. I really want a 140 fs that weighs 25 lbs but this works for now.

    My bike is is an Emotion 650 Neo, the components are a total joke for $4k at 350 watts I don't think it will go up a dirt hill without a heafty amount of pedaling. After nine months of hell I can do a max of 20 min on a trainer about about 65 rpms and 65 watts. Even will full power on an ebike that's less wattage than a super fit rider can do on a bike that weighs half as much (or less).

    In principal I understand how they shouldn't be allowed on some trails. That being said I don't think trail damage or noise is the issue. I know a number of really good riders and racers that will put way more damage down on a trail than 99% of the population on an ebike can do.

    For now it's not a threat, as technology, weight and batteries get better it could become a problem. Nothing like a proper moto though. I have had 450's, 250's, 400's, 320's and now a 350 I can only look at. I never ride on mtn bike trails period. That being said I live in Tahoe where there are great legal moto trails.

    Anyway, keep the positive and negative comments coming. I only ask that you think about what you would do if one day you could do a 5-10 hour ride and the next day your couldn't walk. I am pretty sure you would go with the only viable option, it's still a bike, it still takes pedaling and you get to get out and start getting your life back. I would give up everything save my wife to be healthy again. There is lots of dirt out there, once I would get off the beaten path I would rarely see another rider out there. On an all day ride up the south yuba 8 hours plus you would only see an rattle snake a few tics and that's about it. The bottom line is biking is my favorite thing in the world and I will do whatever I can just to taste it again.

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by abeckstead View Post
    Some dbag came up behind me on an ebike while I was riding uphill at paradise Royale. Damn near running me over as I fell to the side trying to save my keester.
    I felt the same when hundred riders passed me at Boggs 8hr. They had no motors though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckeemtb View Post
    I am pretty skeptical that this crop of ebikes can do much on a serious trail like I used to ride. The 50 weight alone with pretty poor suspension makes it tough to think it could even handle most trails around here.
    Ion 16 e-boxx, 30lb frame with e-drive.. But all this is first generation technology still.

    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?-01_11.jpg

  12. #187
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    G-bikes are already...

    ...a problem. (For trail access issues in regards to damaging trails) Everybody is riding a g-bike when heading downhill

    For sake of conversation a milk-toast 1000W output e-bike might be able to top out at 30 mph on a good day (proper gearing, flat road, etc, etc)

    Check out the kinetic energy of a bike/rider heading DH at 30 mph (only takes a 8% downgrade); a 170# rider on a 30# bike has right around 8.16 kJ of energy. Or about 6000 foot pounds force for you macho men who like to think in terms of ballistics; well over the energy of a .30-06.

    (Not to brag but being a bit on the heavy side I approach the energy of a .50 cal BMG when I hit 40 mph)

    Any wonder why braking bumps appear? Why skid kiddies are such a problem? (yeah just blame it on the dry conditions)

    I don't want to see them on trails either but the DMV-approved e-bikes won't be damaging the trails any more than a skid kiddie on a regular bike.

    Find a better reason to eliminate the e-bikes.

    Food for thought.
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  13. #188
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    The reality is batteries are still not that efficient. Even the latest.

    Ebikes with powerful motors:
    • Will have the duration of a Saturn V rocket Or
    • Will be weighed down with massive battery packs.


    You can't disguise them. It's like putting a V8 in a motorcycle. More power, but big bulky and thirsty.

    eBikes that go fast on the flats are not the same as ebikes that climb well. Don't get in a tizzy about a road bike that can hit 50 mph, which is the Holy Grail for road ebike MPH. Every newbie wants to hit 50 mph. Experienced builders explain reality. Lots of batteries and money to go 50. About 10 million posts on ebikes are here. Endless-sphere.com • Index page

    My e-moped has a 500w hub motor and can barely hit 18 mph on flat ground.

    This is the most efficient system and probably the future. A 250w motor is hooked into the drive train. Using the gears with the electric motor will help, but it won't be a 35 hp motocross motorcycle. CUBE REACTION HYBRID Pro 29

    Again, if it looks like a mtn bike with a thermos, it probably won't be roosting anyone or freaking out people. And it weighs 45 lbs, so if you like single tracks, an old Schwinn Beach Cruiser is light in comparison.


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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post

    I don't want to see them on trails either but the DMV-approved e-bikes won't be damaging the trails any more than a skid kiddie on a regular bike.

    Find a better reason to eliminate the e-bikes.

    Food for thought.
    I think that the frank statement reveals something central to this thread.

    As to marketing...

    A friend of mine ran into a notable NorCal IMBA elder, one of their founders and a founder of prominent local advocacy group, riding a pedal-assist bike on Tam. I had spoken with this same gentleman last year and he told me he was enjoying the road as it was easier on him.

    Road.

    I know, I know. I have umpteen thousand road miles and dozens of Centuries under my belt. But road? Not my favorite choice. I just turned my carbon road bike into a city attack vehicle, like a 19 lb. rigid HT with slicks....

    The 30-40 year olds (I take a general age) who started the advocacy movement in 1986 are crowding 70 years of age. Many have been riding all these years. As age and its effects reveal themselves how many of these advocates for mountain bike access are just going to lay down their helmets and flat-out quit their forays into the hills? They have been struggling with hiker and horsey hater-type folks all these years.

    (FWIW at 62 I just gave up my classic steel ht for a full suss carbon wonder; aahh, mo' bettah'!)

    Who is going to tell them they can't ride the trails? What do you think the reaction might be.

    Francois suggests that bike mtb is 5 years down the road. For advocates 5 years is a blink.

    Just saying'...
    I don't rattle.

  15. #190
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    Speaking of Mt Tam. Local governments fear the ADA.
    If you're handicapped, as in wheelchair bound, anything goes.

    However, some people with illnesses, such as Barrs-Epstien or Lyme disease are considered handicapped. They look normal, but have little endurance.

  16. #191
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    If it has a motor. Its not for non-motorized trails.

    Its that simple.

    Until the ebike industry & user group perform the research, jury is out on impact.

    If you interface with land managers and they say no e-bikes or no bikes period, how do you push that discussion? Serious question.

    You'd be willing to give up access to keep ebikes in the mix? Its tough enough keeping us in the mix as it is.

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post

    The only e-bikes with the "get out of jail free card" are the ones operated by the legitimately handicapped. And those power restrictions may not be applicable this case (except in Federal Wilderness Areas).

    Just like the only folks who can buy marijuana are those who need it for medicinal purposes?

    Dr, Dr, my arm hurts when I do this. I need a script for maryjane!

    Dr, Dr, I have lost my ability to ride uphill and into the scenic areas; I am disabled....
    Last edited by Berkeley Mike; 06-24-2014 at 02:12 PM.
    I don't rattle.

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