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  1. #51
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    I am not sure this applies to e-bikes that meet that 20mph/pedal assist definition. I think those are classified as bicycles, not motorized bicycles, aren't they?

    In any case, if I am to use them, I would use under ADA rules. Hope it will be not too soon, maybe we will have something else to worry about then.

  2. #52
    middle ring single track
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    OK it's a trike...

    ...but:


    BTW they made their funding goal.
    The views and opinions expressed here are those of the author and do not represent any policy of the CA Dept. of Parks & Rec.

  3. #53
    trail rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I am not sure this applies to e-bikes that meet that 20mph/pedal assist definition. I think those are classified as bicycles, not motorized bicycles.
    Some bike brands are pushing e-bikes and this is what they quote to CA dealers about using e-bike on dirt trails. An electric motor is still a motor by this definition.

    We had a trail work volunteer who developed Parkinsons, and CA State Parks had to issue a special permission for him to try a Segway on any trails that were not already designated ADA. They cited that DMV code as the reason an exception was required.
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  4. #54
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus View Post
    We had a trail work volunteer who developed Parkinsons, and CA State Parks had to issue a special permission for him to try a Segway on any trails that were not already designated ADA. They cited that DMV code as the reason an exception was required.
    Interesting. My reading was that the recent ADA ruling on "other" mobility devices was that they need to be specifically excluded from a public trail, not the other way around - with that being a federal law. Obviously, I am not a lawyer, and did not really study this question.

  5. #55
    I like mtn biking, too
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    Pedal-Assisted bike spotted at Boggs - thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    If you think they are a bad idea in parks and threaten our already shaky access, that's a perfectly fine argument. I would tend to agree with you. The noise issue to me is negligible though. We all have our pet peeves out on the trails and if this is yours that's fine. I find big group rides or people riding with ear buds far more annoying personally. I think we have all "whooped" louder than an ebike hundreds of times.
    Agreed - The noise thing really is just a pet peeve, not a serious concern. I even put a silent hub on my latest bike. Heck, blue jays are pretty obnoxious.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Agreed - The noise thing really is just a pet peeve, not a serious concern. I even put a silent hub on my latest bike. Heck, blue jays are pretty obnoxious.
    Blue Jays are like the chihuahuas of the forest. Give it a rest Blue Jays.

  7. #57
    Weird huh?
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    I'm indignant, and I have an opinion on those 'E BIKES'. You bet I do. I know there are a lot of people just like me. Mad and indignant about something.

    Rant off!
    And don't do the burrito jump... Francois

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    IMO the DMV definition of "motorized bicycles" that modbog mentions is a reasonable "line in the sand". A 1000 watt pedal-assist that cuts power at 20 mph is a far cry from a 6KW twist-grip e-motocrosser.

    I'm happy sharing multi-use trails with the DMV-defined e-bikes; especially if the rider has some sort of a disability. (someday; we will all be there!)
    Agreed! One day I'm going to be too old and/or too out of shape to finish a long distance ride with my son, and I'd rather ride with him on an e-bike than not ride.

    I don't think motorized bicycles have any place in a competitive world, but if they allow people to ride with their friends and loved ones when they otherwise wouldn't be able to, I'm all for them.

  9. #59
    I just wanna go fast...
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    I test rode one of these bosch ebikes with a skeptical eye. It turned out to be one of the coolest things I had ever ridden and it didn't even have the sort of bike geometry that I prefer (I'm more of a slack head angle, low bottom bracket, gravity type of person).

    I first thought it was for fat people who didn't want to put in the work to put around local trails that they couldn't normally get to... But it just isn't so.

    You still have to pedal and you still get what you give on the bike. Sprint hard and the bike will go fast, pedal slow and it won't. Also once you're up over 20mph you might as well shut the motor off because it won't produce any more power and creates drag.

    So yeah, you still work hard on climbs, and you're not going to hit some ridiculous motor assisted speed on the DH, but what you do get out of it is awesome range. If the casual user were to normally pedal a 15 mile loop and be tired, now they could do 30 in the same amount of time. Hills that would normally leave you completely drained will just work up a sweat and raise your heart rate and descents... well, they stay the same. I was noticeably slower unless I bothered to reach over and turn the pedal assist all the way off.

    Over all, I wasn't' speeding up climbs at break neck speed, but maybe national xc champ speed for sure. I wasn't roosting around corners or peeling out on climbs (believe me, I tried). I was sweaty and tired at the end just like I had gone for a normal bike ride, but I had covered twice the distance that I normally would on a 1 hour loop.

    The first one of these that comes out in the states with good AM geometry and 5-6" of travel front and rear will get serious consideration from me. Would I replace my dirt bike with one? Heck no. Would I replace my every day pedal bike? Maybe.

  10. #60
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    Stealth Bomber can get up to 50 miles per hour, kinda want one

    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  11. #61
    NedwannaB
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    Gotta say those are pretty cool Tbc.
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  12. #62
    It's about showing up.
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    When bikes approach the level of gas powered dirt bikes, push will definitely come to shove. As such, we are looking at the nose of the camel in the tent.
    I don't rattle.

  13. #63
    Uncle
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I think the issue is as simple as this. ^^^^^^
    +1, plus concerns for greater challenges to access.
    Eat, ride, eat, rest, repeat.

  14. #64
    It's about showing up.
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    BTW, what is the real intention of refusing motorized access? What qualities do they express that make them a problem?
    I don't rattle.

  15. #65
    Weird huh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    If we can't tar and feather the culprits, I vote for e-bikes so long as they are speed limited to 15mph. Soon enough, I'll need one to go up the mountains, so there.
    Zorg, Mission Peak frowns at your comments...You'll be skidding the uphill turn from the Grass Forest onto the fire road as you make your way to the port O potty at the junction to the Stanford Rd. trail. Electricity is overrated.
    Cheers!
    And don't do the burrito jump... Francois

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Stealth Bomber can get up to 50 miles per hour, kinda want one

    That dude pedaled less than 20 times through the entire video. That isn't mountain biking.... it's riding a motorized, light-weight dirt bike. Sure it looks fun... till the battery dies. I see nothing good for MTB coming from this impending reality. Be prepared!

  17. #67
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    Probably not fun to lift a 120 pound "bike" over deadfalll and other trail obstacles, not to mention trying to get it out miles from a trailhead if something goes wrong. Still would like to try one, running laps on something like corral that allow motorized traffic would probably be dam fun.
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  18. #68
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    If anyone here saw the 10 ft long burnouts after corners and up hills at my local trails, they'd agree that motorized is motorized regardless of how big the motor is.

    Just like a 50cc dirtbike is banned the same as a 450cc, electric mtb should be banned the same as electric dirtbikes. For those contesting that it enables them to enjoy mtb after becoming disabled, maybe you should consider a hobby you're capable of. No offense, but I'd you're not capable of doing something, you probably shouldn't do it.

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  19. #69
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaythePedaler View Post
    No offense, but I'd you're not capable of doing something, you probably shouldn't do it.
    Why is everything that starts with "no offense" is always a load of smug bull****?

  20. #70
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    It's not smug, it's care. I don't want to see a semi-disabled guy die in a trail or be stuck there overnight because he's incapable of pedaling his heavy toy out of a trail he couldn't ride on a normal bike.

    We all have limits, respecting them is how we stay alive.

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  21. #71
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_510 View Post
    Saw an older (late 50s?) guy coming off of Gails into the parking lot on a pedal-assisted mountain bike.

    I didn't want to give him crap about it or start any drama, so I just silently judged him as he rode away.

    What are your guys thoughts on these contraptions on the trails?
    I dunno.. . I don't think it's a big deal. It's not a moto where it can tear up the trails and roost dirt. It's just an electric assist booster to get up the hills.

    IMO, more bikes the better. I don't think banning them will do any good.

    Apart from that, is this just a case of 'somebody else is getting p***y but me?'

    I mean, I think folks riding DH bikes at China Camp is silly, but I don't want them banned.

  22. #72
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    It's not just an assist, ride one of them, they roost with no problem and tear up trails. New ones are literally 50mph and well over 1kw, on par with 80cc dirtbikes. You wouldn't let an 80cc dirtbike in the trail, or a mtb with an 80cc motor, why is an electric motor any different?

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  23. #73
    ballbuster
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredchic View Post
    Ebikes do not belong on trails that prohibit motorized vehicle usage. I don't like hearing motors buzzing around, or people blasting their music.
    Waaaaah! Let's ban ebikes because I don't like bikes making a reasonable amount of noise (probably less than 65 dbspl). Geez, you can talk over them.

    I think it's reasonable to put a cap on the power, tho.... maybe say, 250 watts, boosting up to 10mph of boost for trail use, seems reasonable to me.

    Yeah, 1000W is like 1 1/4 horsepower. Although, an 80cc Honda motorcycle 4 stroke gas motor kicks out 4000 watts (5.44 horsepower) pushing a 140 pound bike... and say an average 180 pound adult male rider. (source: Honda CRF 80 F 2012 Motorcycle Photos and Specs)

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaythePedaler View Post
    It's not smug, it's care. I don't want to see a semi-disabled guy die in a trail or be stuck there overnight because he's incapable of pedaling his heavy toy out of a trail he couldn't ride on a normal bike.

    We all have limits, respecting them is how we stay alive.

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    Same example I used earlier in the thread.. it's a touchy issue, but it's true.
    East Bay Parks AKA East Bay Cattle Ranches

  25. #75
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    They have 4kw e-bikes. You can buy 10k ones as well, 1k is pretty basic...

    Capping it at a certain wattage or boost is impossible to patrol. Banning motorized vehicles in general had always been the solution.

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