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  1. #1
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    Just got an e-mail looks like we will no longer be able to ride the Deer Lake & Tamarack trails soon. We will be able to ride the old PCT alignment to Gold lakes road and share it with motorcycles. Thing is most people who poach the PCT are not going to Gold lakes road and will continue on, and the work they will do to realign sections of the Deer Lake and Tamarack trails will just make them more desirable to ride. So I'll go on record right now and say that this will only increase poaching on the PCT not reduce it. Do they think the people that have ridden these trails for decades will actually stop cause it has a sign saying it's the PCT now, pretty laughable if you ask me.

    Go figure the PCT was suitable for bikes all along
    ------------------

    The PCT Realignment Project Decision Notice and Finding of No Significant Impact (attached) was signed by Tom Quinn (Tahoe National Forest Supervisor) on July 18, 2013.


    This was in that letter also:
    Based on consistent observations of mountain bike tracks, the Yuba River Ranger District’s estimation is that there is currently more mountain bike use on the PCT between Packer Saddle and Deer Lake than on Deer Lake or Tamarack trails. The District acknowledges that some mountain bike riders use Deer Lake and Tamarack trails, but the District estimates that this use is relatively low. The District understands that the proposed action will not eliminate all mountain bike trespass, but believes that overall it will reduce the amount of trespass on the PCT in the Sierra Buttes/Packer Saddle area. The Forest Service also recognizes that law enforcement efforts along the PCT will need to continue, or increase, to minimize trespass.
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    yah - there was some grumbly hiker (who does good trail work) that saw a few cyclists in that area around the 4th of July.....

    he wants to organize a volunteer group to raise $$ for game cameras to take pics of riders, along with game cameras to match them up with them parking....then move the cameras around a bit on some sort of schedule

    the dude saw 1 cyclist 1 day, and a group of 3 another day...out of 10 freaking days on the trail...

    people are nutty.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    yah - there was some grumbly hiker (who does good trail work) that saw a few cyclists in that area around the 4th of July.....

    he wants to organize a volunteer group to raise $$ for game cameras to take pics of riders, along with game cameras to match them up with them parking....then move the cameras around a bit on some sort of schedule

    the dude saw 1 cyclist 1 day, and a group of 3 another day...out of 10 freaking days on the trail...

    people are nutty.
    It'll be interesting to see if the PCT signs stay upright in the area.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    It'll be interesting to see if the PCT signs stay upright in the area.
    Good Question...i'd imagine some of the signs removed for a souvenir...

    Also, this nutty hiker (and a small group) did a fair chunk of trail work. if only they'd be all friendly and nice (including MTBr's on the PCT) they could get more help from us, and still only see a couple cyclists a day...

    people sure are dumb sometimes....
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  5. #5
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    More enforcement rather than an honest look at a clearly outdated policy? Sounds like our government!
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  6. #6
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    I just hope the old PCT alignment does not go the route of Chimney rock which I stopped riding many years ago cause it got so beat up by the moto's. Hopefully it holds up as the moto's are also gunning for access to the Sunshine trail.

    The new buffed out trails should make for a pretty sweet loop before dropping down to D-Ville, but don't do it cause it's called the PCT now!
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  7. #7
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    can you paste the actual letter? I dont really understand whats going on here or how this will change things for people who currently use a segment of the pct to access the deer lake loop.

  8. #8
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    I'll have to see if I can find the link to the original PDF document that out lines what is happening. I did save off a map from the document that I'll post up now.

    But it looks like there going to Obliterate and Eliminate the section of the PCT before it reaches the Deer Lake trail in hopes that it will deter folks from continuing riding on the PCT.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes-pct-realignment.jpg  

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  9. #9
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    Here is the Original Document, the letter I just got says they found no significant impact and they will basically move forward on the project unless some appeal is filed in the next 45 days or so.

    http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...T3_1390493.pdf


    ------------------
    Dear PCT Realignment Project Interested Party:



    The PCT Realignment Project Decision Notice and Finding of No Significant Impact (attached) was signed by Tom Quinn (Tahoe National Forest Supervisor) on July 18, 2013. If you no longer have the PCT Realignment Project Environmental Assessment (EA) and supporting documents and desire a copy, they can be obtained by contacting either Project Leader Joe Chavez (joetchavez@fs.fed.us) or Yuba River Ranger District Environmental Coordinator Dennis Stevens (dwstevens@fs.fed.us). The legal notice of the decision is expected to be published in Grass Valley’s The Union newspaper as soon as July 22, 2013. The date of the legal notice in The Union will establish the timeframe for the 45-day appeal filing period under 36 CFR 215. You will also find attached a letter of notification for the decision, and the Forest Service’s responses to comments made to the EA.



    Joe Chavez

    Trails & Recreation Specialist

    Tahoe National Forest

    631 Coyote Street

    Nevada City, CA 95959

    Phone: 530-478-6158

    FAX: 530-478-6109

    email: joetchavez@fs.fed.us

    Normal Work Schedule Sun.-Thurs.
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  10. #10
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    It'll be interesting to see if the hikers stick to the new PCT alignment, or if they'll just stay on the crest, hiking in harmony with other trail users.

    Will the "old" PCT be renamed? I vote for "Perfect Cycling Trail"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    It'll be interesting to see if the hikers stick to the new PCT alignment, or if they'll just stay on the crest, hiking in harmony with other trail users.

    Will the "old" PCT be renamed? I vote for "Preferred" Cycling Trail"
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  12. #12
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    Jersey anyone?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes-pctjersy.jpg  

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  13. #13
    rox
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    if I read the map right this looks like a good thing. the existing alignment will become multiuse and allow legal singletrack access to the deer lake loop

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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Jersey anyone?
    I would love to see some of these in a black/grey combo with PCT logo using the BMX/DH template with 3/4 sleeves. ($90ish, minimum 6 jerseys)

    I could settle for Men's Club Cut SS Jersey too. ($92-$105 depending upon options, minimum 6 jerseys)

    Anyone else?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    if I read the map right this looks like a good thing. the existing alignment will become multiuse and allow legal singletrack access to the deer lake loop
    They decommission a existing section of the PCT that connects to Deer lake trail, Deer lake trail it's self becomes the PCT.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Jersey anyone?
    Nice!

    Move over the emblem up and over to the right side so the zipper doesn't cut it in half.

    Then add the text 'Patrol', 'Security', or 'Safety' underneath (and across the back)......



    actually, that last bit may get someone in hot water
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  17. #17
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    If I remember right Empty_Beer was sporting one of those P.C.T. T-shirts at the Coolest 24 last month. Very cool.....

  18. #18
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE157 View Post
    If I remember right Empty_Beer was sporting one of those P.C.T. T-shirts at the Coolest 24 last month. Very cool.....
    I wore one of those t shirts into my local REI and hung around the hiking shoe section for awhile. Pretty entertaining

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  20. #20
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    ^^ They're all out of stock...

    But I want one!
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  21. #21
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    Get them redone in time for the Tahoe trail work weekend.
    I don't rattle.

  22. #22
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    I just got one, PCT, letters to live by!

  23. #23
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    Stickers! Must have stickers!

  24. #24
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    This is sad news. I really like deer lake trail. It doesn't make sense why pct can't be multi use.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    This is sad news. I really like deer lake trail. It doesn't make sense why pct can't be multi use.
    It is quite a great trail.

    I wrote Joe an email asking if motos could have access if they as long as they shut bikes out. Let's see if he responds. ;-)

    Seriously though, hopefully he hears enough from bikers that they consider allowing bikes for Deer Lake trail and continue with what other changes they feel are best.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    ...

    Seriously though, hopefully he hears enough from bikers that they consider allowing bikes for Deer Lake trail and continue with what other changes they feel are best.
    that's the bugger of it...once it is labeled as 'PCT' bikes are out - period.

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  27. #27
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    that's the bugger of it...once it is labeled as 'PCT' bikes are out - period.

    100% sofa king wee-Todd-ed...
    Not gonna stop me.
    Pffft.
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  28. #28
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    This is the response I got from Joe. I guess THE decision is already made.

    "The District and Forest took into consideration the sediments that you expressed in your email below from similar comments made by a few others before making the final decision. Only after considering all the trade-offs, impacts and benefits to all the different users groups that value the same area and trails (as displayed in the EA), the Decision Maker selected the Proposed Action (Alternative A) as the best overall action to take. We do understand that not everyone will think that the decision made was the best one for their particular interest or perspective.

    Until the new PCT alignment in constructed, mountain bikers will be able to still use the Deer Lake and Tamarack Lakes trails. After the new PCT alignment is constructed the Deer Lake and portion of Tamarack Lakes trails converted to the PCT would no longer be available to mountain bike use. However, mountain bikers will then be able to use the old PCT alignment north of Packer Saddle to the Deer Lake junction on the ridge, which many mountain bikers will consider positive. After the new single-track trail between the Deer Lake junction on top of the ridge and the start of Gold Valley 4x4 Trail is constructed, this will also be available to mountain bikers, which many will also see as a positive new addition.

    Joe"

    I wonder what hikers and horse riders have to feel as "not the best for their particular interest". More hiking trail in the middle of nowhere, fewer legal bike dirt single track. Boo.

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    "The District and Forest took into consideration the sediments that you expressed in your email below .."

    Joe has a dirty mind. Or he's not very bright.

  30. #30
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm shifter View Post
    "The District and Forest took into consideration the sediments that you expressed in your email below .."

    Joe has a dirty mind. Or he's not very bright.
    I would guess autocorrect is the culprit...IMO
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rensho View Post
    Until the new PCT alignment in constructed, mountain bikers will be able to still use the Deer Lake and Tamarack Lakes trails. After the new PCT alignment is constructed the Deer Lake and portion of Tamarack Lakes trails converted to the PCT would no longer be available to mountain bike use. However, mountain bikers will then be able to use the old PCT alignment north of Packer Saddle to the Deer Lake junction on the ridge, which many mountain bikers will consider positive. After the new single-track trail between the Deer Lake junction on top of the ridge and the start of Gold Valley 4x4 Trail is constructed, this will also be available to mountain bikers, which many will also see as a positive new addition.
    .
    We rode PCT to GET TO Deer lake Trails. IMO, all they need is to open that short section, 1-2 miles, to bikes and leave Deer Lake trail alone.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    We rode PCT to GET TO Deer lake Trails. IMO, all they need is to open that short section, 1-2 miles, to bikes and leave Deer Lake trail alone.
    That's what I asked/suggested/begged to Joe. No go.

  33. #33
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    I wonder what SBTS thinks about this

  34. #34
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    Hey guys the comment period is long over and they decided in the end to do what they wanted to do, they don't care what we say.

    Most folks poached the PCT to get to deer lake, so really what's the difference that deer lake is now the PCT? Just gonna be buffed out a bit more so it will be even more attractive to cyclists.

    Also proves that one of the biggest bullsheet arguments that the PCT was not built for bikes is a huge lie, hell I guess it's good enough for motos also.
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  35. #35
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    SBTS commented and considered the move as a net loss to mountain biking in the area.

    Check out the post from Yubaman in this old thread, prolly did not get the attention it deserved being in a party thread.
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  36. #36
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    PCT Realignment in the Sierra Buttes

    Total BS!!
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  37. #37
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    Moto's seem to be the big winners, they get some killer new access. Mountain bikers lose two nice Tech trails in exchange for an uninteresting section of the PCT that was only used to access more interesting terrain further up the trail. Hikers after hiking up from Sierra City will now have to descend down to pack saddle campground then climb back out instead of staying on the "Crest". Should schedule a Downieville gathering around the time the though hikers come though, can you imagine pack saddle campground packed to the gills with mountain bikers as they travel though the campground

    And guess who is a big "Moto-Head", can you say conflict of interest?
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  38. #38
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    The real question is whether the USFS will really enforce the ban since we all know now that the ban is of dubious legal ground.
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  39. #39
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    And guess who is a big "Moto-Head", can you say conflict of interest?
    Really? Look, I have a dog in both fights. Do we really need to throw the moto guys under the bus (me included). If you want to talk about losing access over the years on the Tahoe, the losses sustained by the moto crowd far out weigh the loses sustained by the MTBers.
    I agree that this desicion sucks, but to frame it as some big win for moto's simply isn't honest. Did you consider the loss of Big Boulder, Rattlesnake and Hercimer for moto access in your conspiracy theory? Don't forget, all the bridges in the network were paid for by green sticker funds. If not for the moto's using those trails for the last 50 years alot of these trails wouldnt even exist anymore.
    Just my opinion for what it's worth.

  40. #40
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    I do think they came out the best out of all this, But I'm not throwing the moto heads under the bus, if we have to align with anyone it's them.

    Just saying it seems like people get what they want when in charge, but yea I'm just speculating on that.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    The real question is whether the USFS will really enforce the ban since we all know now that the ban is of dubious legal ground.
    According to a Yuba shuttle driver a few months ago, the USFS was being very regressive about PCT enforcement up around Packer Saddle. According to him, the ranger was stopping riders to make sure that the Yuba shuttle drivers had delivered the require spiel about staying off the PCT.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm shifter View Post
    According to a Yuba shuttle driver a few months ago, the USFS was being very regressive about PCT enforcement up around Packer Saddle. According to him, the ranger was stopping riders to make sure that the Yuba shuttle drivers had delivered the require spiel about staying off the PCT.
    stopping the riders where? on the PCT, sunrise, butchers, etc.?

    Besides, Yuba has always been solid about informing riders the do's and don'ts of the trails in the area. Yuba is a Super Pro group.
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  43. #43
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    I see this as just avoiding the main issue of segregated use in non wilderness. To me this is the underlying issue that needs to be addressed. This move does suck but regardless, it's just a horse trade from one trail for another.

    The discussion should be about sharing trails and putting the end to an outdated ban on bikes that is elitist and illogical to begin with.
    Always respect rangers, they are doing their job-Everyone else has no authority, so get out of the way of the of the ATrain!

  44. #44
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    Was just looking at the PCTA project schedule, looks like the reroute of the PCT is starting up.

    Work days, crews staying at packer saddle, if your camping there during these dates, buy em a beer and thank them for buffing out the trails for us!

    08/03/2014 - 08/12/2014
    08/17/2014 - 08/26/2014
    08/31/2014 - 09/09/2014
    09/28/2014 - 10/02/2014

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    The govt is always short on funds. Demand is obviously there to ride the trail. Why not just charge tourists (like myself) a hefty amount for a day pass--$50 or so--and charge locals something reasonable for a season pass, $50-$75? Hell, they could give locals passes that are short on dough in exchange for X amount of trail work hours.

    Put the money toward maintenance and user education. Patrol the trail, check passes, and if you get caught not yielding to another user or being a dick you lose your pass.

    This has always been my idea for wilderness. Riding wilderness(hypothetically) is a privilege and I'm happy to pay for it. I know, it makes so much sense that they'd never go for it...

  46. #46
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    Im buying my pct shirt & wearing it when I go ride deer lake. Total BS

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad h View Post
    The govt is always short on funds. Demand is obviously there to ride the trail. Why not just charge tourists (like myself) a hefty amount for a day pass--$50 or so--and charge locals something reasonable for a season pass, $50-$75? Hell, they could give locals passes that are short on dough in exchange for X amount of trail work hours.

    Put the money toward maintenance and user education. Patrol the trail, check passes, and if you get caught not yielding to another user or being a dick you lose your pass.

    This has always been my idea for wilderness. Riding wilderness(hypothetically) is a privilege and I'm happy to pay for it. I know, it makes so much sense that they'd never go for it...
    It would never offset the costs of the lawsuits from the Sierra club, PCTA, etc

    Besides, they already have a pass system in the form of a ticket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I wore one of those t shirts into my local REI and hung around the hiking shoe section for awhile. Pretty entertaining
    Haha!!!

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