Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 250 of 495
  1. #201
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chuckha62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,411
    I wonder how the levee system in the Sac. Valley will be impacted by this.
    The bicycle is a curious vehicle. Its passenger is its engine. ~ John Howard

  2. #202
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    That sounds so laughable right now given the circumstance. They sure could have done it once or twice in 49 years.
    The lake would have to be 100% full. Otherwise, how would you test it? That's not how water storage projects are managed. The emergency spillway is just that. In case of emergency.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    182
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The lake would have to be 100% full. Otherwise, how would you test it? That's not how water storage projects are managed. The emergency spillway is just that. In case of emergency.
    Seems like they should be throttling back on the flow from Folsom and Shasta if they have the ability to do that. That would reduce the flow on the Sacramento River going through the Delta area.

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The lake would have to be 100% full. Otherwise, how would you test it? That's not how water storage projects are managed. The emergency spillway is just that. In case of emergency.
    Yes, but they sure could have done so by using the normal spillway to hold the lake level lower but let the lake level rise up to 901' slowly. I know, I know, that's not how the water projects are managed. But my point is that w/o knowing how the water behaves on the emergency spillway, during an emergency such as the main spillway being damaged, it is even more dangerous. It is inherently dangerous to test it, but then they could have tested it with a normal spillway able to send full capacity downstream w/o as much worry.

  5. #205
    Dirty triathlete
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    Yes, but they sure could have done so by using the normal spillway to hold the lake level lower but let the lake level rise up to 901' slowly. I know, I know, that's not how the water projects are managed. But my point is that w/o knowing how the water behaves on the emergency spillway, during an emergency such as the main spillway being damaged, it is even more dangerous. It is inherently dangerous to test it, but then they could have tested it with a normal spillway able to send full capacity downstream w/o as much worry.
    Imagine if the emergency spillway failed during a test. What would be the consequences? Who would be the scapegoat? Imagine the congressional inquiries on how someone would take the risk testing a redundant system designed to be used in an emergency only and putting the lives and livelihoods of everyone downstream at risk.

    Chernobyl failed during a test of a redundant emergency system.

  6. #206
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    I wonder why they have never tested the emergency spillway just to make sure it didn't do what it appears to have done now.
    Another reason is engineering hubris; it'll never be needed so why bother? (It'll never sink so why bother with life boats?)

    A more sinister and conspiratorial reason is that "people in the know" knew it could fail because of shortcuts taken.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  7. #207
    Brand Ambassador SuperModerator
    Reputation: JCWages's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2,910
    I wonder how much actual water will be released. I'm a bit worried about reservoir induced seismic activity.

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,101
    I was alarmed when they first started showing the emergency spillway and the lack of rock below it, it was just a concrete footing/shelf with nothing but dirt below it in many places, especially as it got more northerly. That's a prime place for undercutting to take place, and so it did.

  9. #209
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    Yes, but they sure could have done so by using the normal spillway to hold the lake level lower but let the lake level rise up to 901' slowly. I know, I know, that's not how the water projects are managed. But my point is that w/o knowing how the water behaves on the emergency spillway, during an emergency such as the main spillway being damaged, it is even more dangerous. It is inherently dangerous to test it, but then they could have tested it with a normal spillway able to send full capacity downstream w/o as much worry.
    It's all about safety margin. This link posted in the Folsom thread sums it up: https://ww2.kqed.org/science/2016/02...d-change-that/

    In 1983 the Bureau of Reclamation almost lost Glen Canyon Dam because they failed to anticipate how much runoff was coming from the upper basin states. It was an El Nino year but nobody knew what that meant at the time. Because they were a tad bit embarrassed at how long it took the reservoir to fill (17 years) they didn't lower it enough to accommodate the flow. One of two spillways failed. The engineers didn't account for the cavitation at the bottom of the bend in the tunnel. Keep in mind this tunnel is only 10s of feet from the canyon wall. It basically took raising the dam with sheets of plywood to raise the reservoir level until the remaining spillway could catch up. It was a very very close call.

    Looks like they might be dodging the bullet with Oroville as well. At least for now. No doubt the damage is even greater to the spillway which they will now have to use 24-7 to lower the lake at least 100'. Otherwise, they will not be able to accommodate the runoff from the next series of storms. This, the keystone facility in the CA Water Project is toast.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  10. #210
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Allan View Post
    I was alarmed when they first started showing the emergency spillway and the lack of rock below it, it was just a concrete footing/shelf with nothing but dirt below it in many places, especially as it got more northerly. That's a prime place for undercutting to take place, and so it did.
    Yes and they hurriedly wet-set a smattering of boulders and crossed their fingers.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  11. #211
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    I also stumbled on a report that mentioned the criteria used for flood control planning 50 years ago did not account for the climate change; i.e. "global warming". Some basins fared better, some worse. Not sure about the Feather River.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  12. #212
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    An evacuation has been ordered for low-lying levels of Oroville, Gridley and several areas downstream from Lake Oroville, the Butte County Sheriff's Office said.


    Evacuation orders issued for low levels of Oroville
    IPA will save America

  13. #213
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    An evacuation has been ordered for low-lying levels of Oroville, Gridley and several areas downstream from Lake Oroville, the Butte County Sheriff's Office said.


    Evacuation orders issued for low levels of Oroville
    That's old news; where have you been?
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  14. #214
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    Outflow on the broken spillway is 100,000 cfs. There is a serious situation at Nakatomi and they are trying to drain the tub now

    https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?ORO
    IPA will save America

  15. #215
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Outflow on the broken spillway is 100,000 cfs. There is a serious situation at Nakatomi and they are trying to drain the tub now

    https://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?ORO
    The emergency spillway can fail soon.
    IPA will save America

  16. #216
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    That's old news; where have you been?
    drinkin beer.

    Schiiit, sorry I'm late on the news. Damn.
    IPA will save America

  17. #217
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The emergency spillway can fail soon.
    Somebody isn't keeping up with current events.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  18. #218
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Getting back to testing the emergency spillway; it could easily and safely be done mid-summer in a "normal" year.

    But of course there's the cost of lost water deliveries, lost boat launch fees and lost power generation.

    (and how much is this fiasco going to cost?)
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  19. #219
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squareback's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,447
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    It was an El Nino year but nobody knew what that meant at the time.
    It means "The Boy"

    I learned Spanish by pressing 2 everytime I call DMV.

  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ancient rascal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,918

    hahahahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    It means "The Boy"

    I learned Spanish by pressing 2 everytime I call DMV.
    You're gonna end up in the dog house with fc if you keep this up!
    Still searching for my red headed hairdresser Tiffany. "Economic Mother Nature" ... Knocks at door! -AR

  21. #221
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ronski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,046
    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The top 30' of the reservoir. Not sure how many acre feet that equates to but either way not good.
    30 feet of water rushing out will likely scour a channel to make that 30 feet +++++. could stop at 30' or 60' or...

  22. #222
    aka: Bucky Fikes
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    2,275
    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    It means "The Boy"

    I learned Spanish by pressing 2 everytime I call DMV.
    [/thread]

    Thread award goes here. Regardless if the lake drains itself.
    Always ride with a purpose.

  23. #223
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ronski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,046
    Quote Originally Posted by DRSpalding View Post
    Based on the live KCRA 3 helicopter footage, I think that they are worried about the left hand side (west?) of the emergency spillway just below the parking lot. It looks like there is a 100' rill developing in towards the base of the spillway.

    Failure means lots of shit will have to be fixed there and downstream a long ways. Even w/o failure, they are going to have to keep the lake drawn down with the normal spillway and electricity production and get in to the emergency spillway and repair it post haste before even thinking about fixing the normal spillway.

    I wonder why they have never tested the emergency spillway just to make sure it didn't do what it appears to have done now.
    Some things can't be easily tested. How do you test the dam itself? The obvious answer is you do extensive modeling based on very extensive site analysis. Then you build in a safety factor of 2x, 3x, 4x, etc depending on various things such as how many people am I going to kill if I get this wrong. Historic weather and flow data would be part of the analysis. If historic data suggests the biggest inflow ever was X, then that part of your model you build in a safety factor of 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. My guess would be the site analysis of the emergency spillway was weak, as were the expectations of it's need. The apparent lack of maintenance or study of the main spillway is another obvious weak point that reveals weak engineering that went into it's design, as well as a cavalier attitude regarding maintenance.

    This is going to cost a shietload to fix.

  24. #224
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,882
    Maintenance is only expensive until crap breaks

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  25. #225
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    130,000 under evacuation. Gridlock.

    30+ schools, 2 hospitals, 1 prison all part of the evac.

    Crazy.


    Watch Live | FOX40

    Sacramento, Stockton and Modesto CA News and Weather - KCRA Channel 3
    IPA will save America

  26. #226
    NedwannaB
    Reputation: JMac47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    10,001
    Anyone on here helping with someone evacuating or is everyone just reporting on the train wreck unfolding.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  27. #227
    Dirty triathlete
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Anyone on here helping with someone evacuating or is everyone just reporting on the train wreck unfolding.
    I'll take some evac'ed horses, if they drive 400 miles south.

  28. #228
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,113
    Quote Originally Posted by ronski View Post
    Some things can't be easily tested. How do you test the dam itself? The obvious answer is you do extensive modeling based on very extensive site analysis. Then you build in a safety factor of 2x, 3x, 4x, etc depending on various things such as how many people am I going to kill if I get this wrong. Historic weather and flow data would be part of the analysis. If historic data suggests the biggest inflow ever was X, then that part of your model you build in a safety factor of 2x, 3x, 4x, etc. My guess would be the site analysis of the emergency spillway was weak, as were the expectations of it's need. The apparent lack of maintenance or study of the main spillway is another obvious weak point that reveals weak engineering that went into it's design, as well as a cavalier attitude regarding maintenance.

    This is going to cost a shietload to fix.
    Yep to all the above. They did not do any modeling for water flow down the emergency spillway and probably no or minimal hydrologic and erosional studies and they needed to know the limits before this situation. It's gonna be more expensive to fix it now than if they had discovered problems testing, barring a failure happening during the test, because now it is time and situation critical with the normal spillway also damaged. (And the lake taking in almost 200 Kcfs at times this last week.)

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Jack Burns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,283
    Like you, I have been following this all week. I've been streaming a live feed all evening. It's a real cluster.

    This is dramatic. Rough times.

    The question I have not obtained a serious response to, is what is going to happen over the next few weeks to all of the displaced people? How many are they?

    The sword of Damocles indeed.

    And I don't know if it has been brought up here yet, but look at Mosul Dam in Iraq for some contrast.

    I recall Oroville is built in a tectonic fault some as well. Given that was understood (and the climate), It's crazy that the spill way was built in the manner it was.

    87, 97, 2017....what happened in 2007?



    Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

  30. #230
    Poacher
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,379
    Is Emergency spillway virgin earth? Is there a clay interior? Won't it just get soupy and slough away? How do levees resist this soupy failure?

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation: somanygoodbikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    331
    Relevant to your interests -- Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago

    They claim the emergency spillway was supposed to be able to handle 350,000 CFS. (!)

  32. #232
    That makes me smart
    Reputation: Finch Platte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    13,204
    Quote Originally Posted by somanygoodbikes View Post
    Relevant to your interests -- Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago

    They claim the emergency spillway was supposed to be able to handle 350,000 CFS. (!)
    Wowsers. <---- that's just dirt, not brick.

  33. #233
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Sounds like they dodged another bullet; maybe they'll be able to get the dam low enough to make some fixes.

    The Murky News article RE the Sierra Club et al. suit contains:

    "...A filing on May 26, 2006, by Thomas Berliner, an attorney for the State Water Contractors, and Douglas Adamson, an attorney for the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, discounted the risk. It urged FERC to reject the request to require that the emergency spillway be armored, a job that would have cost tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.

    “The emergency spillway was designed to safely convey the Probable Maximum Flood, and DWR has reviewed and confirmed the efficacy of the PMF hydrologic analysis for Oroville Reservoir,” the attorneys noted.

    Ultimately, they were successful. FERC did not require the state to upgrade the emergency spillway."


    SoCal effin up NorCal; just like in "Cadillac Desert".
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  34. #234
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    200,000 evacuated. National Guard deployed.

    Lake is now at 897 feet, 5 feet below overflow.

    The failure is at the left side of the spillway so they are gonna fill it with a a ton of rock bags.
    IPA will save America

  35. #235
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bluegixxer600's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    26
    I commute from the Grass Valley area to Sacramento. There were several dozen abandoned cars along the road. I even saw a few tents pitched along the roadside and lots of motorhomes/trailers wherever they could find room to park for the night.

  36. #236
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    The funny thing about that lawsuit brought by the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League is that had the DWR proposed beefing up the spillway first those groups (at least the first 2) almost certainly would have opposed it.

    Loss of oak woodland, loss of riparian habitat, unsightly man-made structure...

    This is what makes California great.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  37. #237
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    103
    The real tragedy is how the evacuees are being handled. News reports (tv) report on a few evac centers that are full/then not/then full again, showing traffic ad nauseum and not providing useful information. What they are not doing is providing information of where to go and how to manage the outflow of victims into the outer communities. Can you imagine being in the traffic and hearing the, "all the hotels are booked" and the, "evacuation centers are full." OES has completely failed in its duty as well as the news folks not stepping in! Rant Over.

    The spillway situation is a double maybe even triple failure scenario that was exacerbated by shutting the main spillway down to inspect damages. I'm sure there will some expensive committee set up to find fault, but the emergency spillway is actually doing it's job which is to exceed the 100kcfs capacity of the main spillway in rare event, kind of like a fuse. Otherwise, it would have been called the Second Spillway and it is not. The hydrology of the inflows is not too far off of the predictions so conspiracies aside, this is a tragic case of primary failure of main spillway (which still is not dangerous to main damn structure), past years droughts making managers gun shy, unprecedented continuous and intense rain fall and finally some antiquated water management rules.

    Hope all make it back home safely and without harm or loss of property....

  38. #238
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    The funny thing about that lawsuit brought by the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League is that had the DWR proposed beefing up the spillway first those groups (at least the first 2) almost certainly would have opposed it.

    Loss of oak woodland, loss of riparian habitat, unsightly man-made structure...

    This is what makes California great.
    The same envirowhackos have been demanding for years periodic mass releases from dams to restore riparian habitat. The entire Sac valley used to flood every few years, that is what created the original valley ecosystem.
    Now they are getting exactly what they have been demanding, and pretending to be upset about it.

  39. #239
    Brand Ambassador SuperModerator
    Reputation: JCWages's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2,910
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    The same envirowhackos have been demanding for years periodic mass releases from dams to restore riparian habitat. The entire Sac valley used to flood every few years, that is what created the original valley ecosystem.
    Now they are getting exactly what they have been demanding, and pretending to be upset about it.
    Except back then you still had 90%+ of those riparian habitat available for wildlife disbursement and ecosystem recovery. Wipe out 96% of it due to human acitivity and the situation changes when massive floods happen. You're not thinking clearly here.
    OT: The Oroville Reservoir situation-wetland-loss.jpg
    http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/waterr...tralvalley.pdf

  40. #240
    Lurkers Union - Local 916
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    347
    What a development. And now that the reservoir has started receding and nothing happened (yet) the finger pointing is in full force. I know some national guard folks that go activated last night - I'm guessing as patrols for looters etc. But as mentioned there's more rain coming and we're like what halfway or so through the season?

    The geologist in me is still in awe of the spillway being gone and all that big, beautiful bedrock being exposed though.

    (also 82 people browsing this thread! :waves

  41. #241
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Let me get this straight; environmental organizations sued to have the spillway reinforced and strengthened —something that would have benefited people, property, habitat, wildlife, and water supply to millions— and lost, but they're also to blame for the events happening now? How, exactly, do you make such an absurd belief even remotely logical in your heads?

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    The same envirowhackos have been demanding for years periodic mass releases from dams to restore riparian habitat. The entire Sac valley used to flood every few years, that is what created the original valley ecosystem.
    Now they are getting exactly what they have been demanding, and pretending to be upset about it.
    Yes, and where's the harm in higher flows intended to benefit the downstream ecosystem? For example, salmonid habitat. You like salmon, no? As a scientist who studies the downstream effects of dams on rivers (some good, some bad) I find your comment baseless and without merit. Cite your sources.

    Remind me again exactly what are the enviros demanding in this tragic situation?
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

  43. #243
    Paper or plastic?
    Reputation: zorg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    8,882
    How many cubic yards of sediment went into the river yesterday?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  44. #244
    Log off and go ride!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,264
    You are the one not thinking clearly. Yes, there is less riparian habitat than originally. The various enviro groups have been demanding periodic dam releases to restore what is left. This flood will restore the few remaining pockets. Unfortunately, there will also be great property loss, and the human cost overshadows the minor ecological benefit. Many of the lunatic fringe in the environmental industry do not agree the human cost is too high. They see any ecological benefit, no matter how small, as greater than any human cost.

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    You are the one not thinking clearly. Yes, there is less riparian habitat than originally. The various enviro groups have been demanding periodic dam releases to restore what is left. This flood will restore the few remaining pockets. Unfortunately, there will also be great property loss, and the human cost overshadows the minor ecological benefit. Many of the lunatic fringe in the environmental industry do not agree the human cost is too high. They see any ecological benefit, no matter how small, as greater than any human cost.
    Really? "Environmentalists" —of which I, and many other's here on MTBR are— are cheering the change that people will lose their property, their livelihoods, their lives?

    You lack any credible context or evidence of any of this, because it doesn't exist expect in your angry, prejudiced mind.

    No environmental organization, policy maker, or scientist is cheering these events, and the impacts of planned periodic high water releases —a tried and true technique on dozens of dam controlled rivers across the country— wouldn't impact people's lives or property, period.

  46. #246
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    Let me get this straight; environmental organizations sued to have the spillway reinforced and strengthened —something that would have benefited people, property, habitat, wildlife, and water supply to millions— and lost, but they're also to blame for the events happening now? How, exactly, do you make such an absurd belief even remotely logical in your heads?
    I see the lawsuit as a nuisance suit to add to the cost of operating dams everywhere. (And to this end limit development of new dams) Even though they lost they won. Collateral damage from what the envirowhackos achieve is that the bureaucratic systems that control our public infrastructure become gun-shy to thinking outside the box and foreseeing events such as what is happening now.

    Oh; and the $$$ spent on fighting that lawsuit could have been applied to some real "shovel" projects.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  47. #247
    fc
    fc is offline
    mtbr founder Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    25,498
    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    What a development. And now that the reservoir has started receding and nothing happened (yet) the finger pointing is in full force. I know some national guard folks that go activated last night - I'm guessing as patrols for looters etc. But as mentioned there's more rain coming and we're like what halfway or so through the season?

    The geologist in me is still in awe of the spillway being gone and all that big, beautiful bedrock being exposed though.

    (also 82 people browsing this thread! :waves
    Hi!!!!


    There is a situation at Nakatomi Plaza indeed.

    There's non-stop trucks, tractors and helicopters now in the staging are. The helis will drop an untold number of 1 ton bags of roack behind that leaking spillway wall.

    No lives lost yet but man, this situation is crazy. There is a big price for that evacuation of 200,000 people. Many had just minutes to leave. Hospitals and even a prison evacuated.
    IPA will save America

  48. #248
    middle ring single track
    Reputation: Moe Ped's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    No environmental organization, policy maker, or scientist is cheering these events, and the impacts of planned periodic high water releases —a tried and true technique on dozens of dam controlled rivers across the country— wouldn't impact people's lives or property, period.
    Not so sure; Edward Abbey would be cheering this disaster on.

    You don't think Ed still has followers?
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  49. #249
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chuckha62's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,411
    My buddy works for Ca-Fire and got an unprecedented (unpresidented ) call last night ordering all firefighters (in NorCal?) to report to their stations. They're mobilizing now to head to the anticipated flood region.

    He says that in the fifteen years he has been on the job he has never had that happen.
    The bicycle is a curious vehicle. Its passenger is its engine. ~ John Howard

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    5,642
    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    You are the one not thinking clearly. Yes, there is less riparian habitat than originally. The various enviro groups have been demanding periodic dam releases to restore what is left. This flood will restore the few remaining pockets. Unfortunately, there will also be great property loss, and the human cost overshadows the minor ecological benefit. Many of the lunatic fringe in the environmental industry do not agree the human cost is too high. They see any ecological benefit, no matter how small, as greater than any human cost.
    Enviros as you call them (wildlife biologists, fisheries scientists, geomorphologists) are hardly arguing for uncontrolled spills, evacuations, and loss of life. Generally, the idea is to provide the best science possible in order to provide managers with the information they need to operate dams to benefit all resources. That is, power production, ecosystem, as well as water storage. You should just pipe down unless you have something meaningful to contribute.
    "Fart in a paper bag, after eating the #17 plate from filibertos. STRAVA!" M77Ranger.

Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Oroville rideable this weekend with rain?
    By MTB Marco in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-17-2015, 06:36 AM
  2. Weekly Oroville Rides
    By norcalchico in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 1011
    Last Post: 12-09-2015, 09:38 PM
  3. Oct 19th & 20th Oroville CA
    By LWright in forum Endurance XC Racing
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-21-2013, 01:46 AM
  4. 24Hrs/8Hrs at Oroville. Who's going?
    By Ben_Im in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-22-2012, 08:51 AM
  5. Help finding Oroville trails
    By oheckler in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-20-2011, 08:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •