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  1. #1
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    Novato horse riders thrown after run in with mtn bikers.

    This is really bad for our sport, even if it is kids.
    I hope the injured horse and rider recover quickly.

    Zeppegno said the cyclists, who appeared to be 12 to 14 years old, did not stick around.

    Novato horse riders thrown, injured, after run-in with illegal mountain bikers on trail - Marin Independent Journal

  2. #2
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    Agreed. Little punks. Although at 12-14, I probably would've been scared shitless and peaced out as well. Natural reaction at that age. Obviously shouldn't have been blasting blind singletrack illegally, but that goes without saying.

    I also hate reading cycle-horse MarinIJ articles. They bring the crazies out. At least they have FB commenting, so it's not anonymous, but still.

  3. #3
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    Healing vibes to the horse rider. That really sucks.

    Those kids' parents going to be paying for that wreck for a long time. Deservedly so. Makes me mad too--they're going to make it hard for the rest of us to get access in places where the demand is high and supply low (Marin, San Mateo County).

    Unfortunately, this is going to be more common in places like Marin as mountain biking gets more popular--especailly with the younger generation--and there isn't increased access. The younger folks don't want fireorads to ride on--they want features and speed. And as long as that doesn't exist legally, people will create their own fun.

  4. #4
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    I posted this on the MarinIJ page.

    Much like creating skateboard parks to get kids from skateboarding in front of stores, a bike park would give bike riders a challenging area to ride without conflict. The future bike park is near where this incident happened.

    Riding fast on trails near stables is like speeding in school zones.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevXR View Post
    This is really bad for our sport, even if it is kids.
    I hope the injured horse and rider recover quickly.

    Zeppegno said the cyclists, who appeared to be 12 to 14 years old, did not stick around.

    Novato horse riders thrown, injured, after run-in with illegal mountain bikers on trail - Marin Independent Journal
    That is really bad.

    THe kids should have stopped to help.

    The mountain bike community should do everything possible to help find the kids. Possibly even more. We need to show that we're responsible. Organize a medical fund for the lady?
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  6. #6
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    Re: Novato horse riders thrown after run in with mtn bikers.

    This is bad. And tragic. Best thing we could do here is someone should start a fund to help pay for their bills and lost work.

    Should be someone connected like Francis or Berkeley Mike who can deliver it in the context of 'we strongly oppose the actions of these riders and are committed to ... ? ... '

    I'd donate.

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  7. #7
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    Only thing that could make this worse is if the mt. bikers were in their 20's-50's. We need to educate and police our own, and I applaud an effort to make up for our bad apples with a fundraising effort. Need to show the haters that we are better than these two kids.

  8. #8
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    And of course all of the normal crazies are showing up in the comments section.


    I wonder if these kids participate in a NorCal HS League team. Probably too young. From what I have seen, the kids on the race teams are taught to be responsible and courteous when riding trails outside of racing. I think there is several posters in this thread can speak about this better than I can.
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  9. #9
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    Those comments are hard to read, I cant believe how much they hate bikes. It sucks that those kids took off but that has nothing to do with most riders.
    Why would you ride a horse that gets spooked by bikes anyway.
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    Novato horse riders thrown after run in with mtn bikers.

    This isn't good, but at some point if you are riding a horse that can get easily spooked, you probably shouldn't take it placed where it can get easily spooked, like out in public. If you have your own property you have more control over who and what comes and goes. The horses police use are trained to not get spooked. These people and many others will take skittish animals out, and then expect the public to not upset the animal. If a dog gets spooked, in public, and bites someone the owner is reprimanded or the animal is put down or both.

    Maybe more horse people will start getting mules.

  11. #11
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    If your horse gets spooked, tosses you off, and tramples you to death, it's 100% your own g0ddamn fault. Anything can spook a horse, doesn't have to be a bike. My bike is under my control, their horses are under their horses' control. Simple as that.

    I'd spit on you if I learned you turned these kids in .
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Agreed. Little punks. Although at 12-14, I probably would've been scared shitless and peaced out as well. Natural reaction at that age. Obviously shouldn't have been blasting blind singletrack illegally, but that goes without saying.

    I also hate reading cycle-horse MarinIJ articles. They bring the crazies out. At least they have FB commenting, so it's not anonymous, but still.
    Yeah, I really think that the IJ caters to NIMBY Marinites. They love to publish stories like this.

    That said, yeah.... sucks that this happened. It sucks that there are still mountain bikers out there so discourteous that make us all look bad. I wouldn't be surprised if they perps blamed the horse riders.

    I hope everybody recovers okay.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    If your horse gets spooked, tosses you off, and tramples you to death, it's 100% your own g0ddamn fault. Anything can spook a horse, doesn't have to be a bike. My bike is under my control, their horses are under their horses' control. Simple as that.

    I'd spit on you if I learned you turned these kids in .
    I'd rat them out in a New York Second without even having to think about it. That is basically a hit-and-run. Somebody could have died.

    I mean, riding the illegal trail is one thing. You know what you are doing, you get caught, you take your $350 fine like a grown-up and accept responsibility.

    But somebody gets hurt, least you can do is stop and make sure they are okay, call for help, administer first aide, etc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post

    I'd spit on you if I learned you turned these kids in .
    I'd spit on the kids when I'm turning them in

    Kids are kids; they do dumb stuff. Sometimes they get caught and sometimes they don't.

  15. #15
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    Novato horse riders thrown after run in with mtn bikers.

    Unpredictable untame beasts and no legal public single track in the county....what do you expect horse people. It is unfortunate, but as long as there is not balanced access for the big and growing user group, this type of stuff will continue to happen. The fire road only rule in Marin open space is ridiculous and bullshit.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I'd rat them out in a New York Second without even having to think about it. That is basically a hit-and-run. Somebody could have died.

    I mean, riding the illegal trail is one thing. You know what you are doing, you get caught, you take your $350 fine like a grown-up and accept responsibility.

    But somebody gets hurt, least you can do is stop and make sure they are okay, call for help, administer first aide, etc.
    Yah, poaching trails is one thing - but leaving two injured ladies who are screaming for help on the side of the trail? That's fvucked up.
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  17. #17
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    Novato horse riders thrown after run in with mtn bikers.

    I am sure there is another version of what happened
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by argibson View Post
    I am sure there is another version of what happened
    id love to hear it. the kids should man up and come forward.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Yah, poaching trails is one thing - but leaving two injured ladies who are screaming for help on the side of the trail? That's fvucked up.
    How were they found again?

    Why am I reminded of that video where the spode chick gets hit, gets up and does the monkey dance, throws her bike at a dude, then goes all crying wounded flower when an audience arrives?

    You seem to know how it went down.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  20. #20
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    A terrible incident. Hope the injuries are not too severe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post
    I wonder if these kids participate in a NorCal HS League team. Probably too young. From what I have seen, the kids on the race teams are taught to be responsible and courteous when riding trails outside of racing. I think there is several posters in this thread can speak about this better than I can.
    I doubt that these kids were on a NorCal team, even leaving aside that they are probably too young. The NorCal league coaches seriously drum into the kids the ethics of responsible and respectful trail use and sharing. They are taught to stop immediately and dismount when encountering equestrians, wait/walk the bikes until the horses/riders are aware of and comfortable with their presence, and pass only with permission. I have seen many times that they do it automatically.

    The NorCal kids are also taught that they must not ride illegal trails. Not because the trail closures are right or just, but to respect the rules, work within the system to try to change them (as frustrating as that can be in places like Marin or the East Bay) and avoid the kinds of use conflicts like this that can give all mountain bikers a bad name.

    This is not just teaching, it is one of the basic League rules, along with wearing a helmet at all times. NICA Rule 2.4:

    "LEGAL MOUNTAIN BIKING TRAILS ONLY
    As representatives of a NICA league and our sport, NICA student-athletes must ride only on authorized trails. NICA student-athletes found to be riding on illegal trails at ANY time, whether on team rides or on their own, will face consequences. It is the student-athlete’s responsibility to know which trails are legal for bikes. Building unauthorized trails or adding unauthorized features (such as berms or jumps) is also unacceptable and carries the same consequences."

    Violations are a "red level offense" meaning automatic disqualification from the next race for the first offense, season-long disqualification for a second.

    We all know that people are going to ride illegal trails, but this incident shows that even avoiding weekends to try to keep it on the down-low (it apparently occurred on a Thursday afternoon) does not always work. If these youngsters had been in control of their bikes, they should have been able to stop before spooking the horses. And it was unforgivable to split the scene after seeing equestrians down and hurt.

    Comments like those from Mrwhlr above (a complete load of baloney) are as nutty as those of the Marin crazies posting on the IJ site who think all MTB'ers are hooligans and should be banned. What these kids did was a hit-and-run, pure and simple. I am sure it was unintentional, and this type of accident can happen on any trail, legal or otherwise, when a rider lacks sufficient control to avoid endangering others.

    The kids might be caught but given the lawsuit implications they probably won't be outed by their parents. I would hope that if their parents find out that they will be grounded for the summer at minimum.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by argibson View Post
    Unpredictable untame beasts and no legal public single track in the county....what do you expect horse people. It is unfortunate, but as long as there is not balanced access for the big and growing user group, this type of stuff will continue to happen. The fire road only rule in Marin open space is ridiculous and bullshit.
    Well, I expect that riding on a trail open to horses, but closed to bikes aren't expecting an asshat biker flying around the corner at high speed, obviously riding way beyond control of the bike. By the article, there is no reason to think the horse riders did anything wrong, or could have done anything different apart from staying home.

    I mean really, on narrow singletrack around a blind corner, I would expect a horse to freak out and run if some selfish bastard on two wheels was riding beyond his ability to stop at a safe distance. The cyclists (apart from the poaching issue) should expect that there are horses on the trail and ride accordingly. This ain't NorthShore.

    Saying 'what do the expect?' is like arguing that banks should expect to get robbed because they keep so much money there, or a woman should expect to be raped if she has a few drinks and wears a short skirt.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 06-22-2013 at 10:26 PM.

  22. #22
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    while it is a tragedy that the rider where injured I see this in a different way. While this happened on a no bikes trail these where just kids. Yeah yargle bargle zargle they don't belong there the horses where not under control of their riders. A 12 year old encounters a 1000+lb animal out of control and ran most likely not in fear of punishment but rather in fear of bodily harm. What if one of the horses killed one of the kids? The women sponsor horses at a stable ultimately blame goes to that stable imo for renting out animals that are not trained.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfloren View Post
    The NorCal kids are also taught that they must not ride illegal trails. Not because the trail closures are right or just, but to respect the rules, work within the system to try to change them (as frustrating as that can be in places like Marin or the East Bay) and avoid the kinds of use conflicts like this that can give all mountain bikers a bad name.

    This is not just teaching, it is one of the basic League rules, along with wearing a helmet at all times. NICA Rule 2.4:

    "LEGAL MOUNTAIN BIKING TRAILS ONLY
    As representatives of a NICA league and our sport, NICA student-athletes must ride only on authorized trails. NICA student-athletes found to be riding on illegal trails at ANY time, whether on team rides or on their own, will face consequences. It is the student-athlete’s responsibility to know which trails are legal for bikes. Building unauthorized trails or adding unauthorized features (such as berms or jumps) is also unacceptable and carries the same consequences."

    Violations are a "red level offense" meaning automatic disqualification from the next race for the first offense, season-long disqualification for a second.
    It's time to interject a dose of reality:

    That rule is very difficult to enforce. Many NICA racers ride (and build) illegal trails on their own time during the season.

    All you have to do is listen to some of the conversations amongst the various team members in the pits, while they're hanging out around the start/finish area, while they're at one of the CM stations watching their buddies race, talk to your racer and learn what some of his team mates are up to with shovel stashes, etc.

    Wait, maybe I'm mistaken and those Monterey Bay Composite kids that I heard while course marshalling want to grow up to be mailmen so that's why they were talking about mailboxes. Or maybe they are huge Aladdin fans so that's why they were talking about magic carpets...

    Yeah, that must be it.

  24. #24
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    I think it fair to say that NorCal kids are not saints. I think it also possible that these kids could be NorCal riders, too. No one really knows enough but kids make mistakes.

    But pound for pound, speed, agility, and guts, NorCal kids are probably near the top in quality of trail sharing behaviors. Independent of the rulebook, it is a huge part of being able to continue to do group rides 3-4 times a week on your local neighborhood dirt in a kit that has your name on it. So trail sharing behaviors are a vital part of their training. Otherwise the whole team, or the whole league for that matter, loses access and administrative support from the schools. There is a lot of accountability.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    id love to hear it. the kids should man up and come forward.
    Oxymoron-kids manning up - HA!
    Thats a good one i heart!
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