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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcalchico
    I would lower the tire pressure that should help with traction.
    I agree. Lower pressure tires will also absorb part of the impacts for you and save your rim from as much stress as well as making the ride feel smoother. I think 30psi is a good starting point, but differences in tire size, riding style and weight mean the ideal pressure for you won't necessarily be the same as mine

    this is also a good reason to get larger tires at some point. More air volume means the pressure can be run even lower without risking pinch flats and rim damage.

  2. #402
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    Specialized Eskar 2bliss on the rear (2.3)
    Specialized Purgatory on the front (2.4)

    Run 'em ghetto tubeless and you're good to go. Agree with Norcal... lower that tire pressure.

  3. #403
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    Really? Because at 50psi with me on the bike I can see the tire squishing down or w/e you call it when I'm riding on the road.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmogSUX
    Really? Because at 50psi with me on the bike I can see the tire squishing down or w/e you call it when I'm riding on the road.
    yep. It's too low if you are getting pinch flats from hitting rocks or if your tire feels squirmy when cornering, but other than that you want it to squish down for riding off-road trails. An appropriately soft tire will do more to absorb small bumps and conform to the trail than even the best suspension.

    I weigh 195lbs and usually run larger tires (2.2-2.4) and I've run as low as 20psi up front for xc-style riding without problems. For general aggressive riding in Bidwell I usually stick to 28-30psi (depending on the tires)

  5. #405
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    I'm about 205 and run about 30psi front, 35-40 rear...

    flats suck. If you're not already running tubeless it's a must IMO.

  6. #406
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    I have tubes lol. Just got the bike about a month ago. Cannondale F7. Haven't changed anything on it, as I'm still getting used to it...that and I'm broke haha bought the bike with my credit card.

  7. #407
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    how is the poison oak up on the north side ? any trails to avoid?

  8. #408
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    Plenty of poison oak, but not as bad as it was in the spring. North Rim, Lower and Middle trails are a bit wider so you have plenty of room to ride, but the other trails get tight and narrow at places. It's definitely avoidable, just stay on the trails and try not to plow through any bushes . If you get poison oak really bad buy some Tecnu or other poison oak soap and wash with it after a ride. It's not a question of if you'll get poison oak in upper park, it's when.
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  9. #409
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    Damn can't go this week either..just realized why I don't have work tonight haha I have class.

  10. #410
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    thanks, yeah i got it pretty bad frisbee golfing once...

  11. #411
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    I'm contemplating skipping class to go tonight haha. Just found out my front caliper is dragging bad, so I'm trying to fix that right now.

    And if I go, do I need a badass light? Mines just so-so and I know it will be dark before 8..
    Last edited by SmogSUX; 10-05-2010 at 04:48 PM.

  12. #412
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    Whoa, awesome ride tonight! A few of us went up South Rim to Bloody Pin and down Guardians Trail. First time riding it at night, and I think maybe even my fastest time down...a hell of a good ride! Another couple people split off, crossed at Bear Hole and rode Middle and Lower Trails. I'm digging this weather, so much nicer to ride when it's 70F than 100F
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  13. #413
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    I wish it was 100F I love hot weather. Crossing over Bear Hole was pretty interesting haha.
    Nice meeting you guys. I won't be able to do that very often due to school/work, but I'll try and make it out when I can...and by then I should have a better light haha...and maybe some pedals that wont fall apart.

  14. #414
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    Glad to hear it went well. I'll get that wheel fixed up and be back out Thursday if weather permitted. Good ride while I was there

  15. #415
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    Gotta take my light in today and see if Batteries Plus can tell me whether it's the charger or the battery that's causing issues. Hopefully I can hook up for the thurs nite ride.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmogSUX
    I wish it was 100F I love hot weather. Crossing over Bear Hole was pretty interesting haha.
    Nice meeting you guys. I won't be able to do that very often due to school/work, but I'll try and make it out when I can...and by then I should have a better light haha...and maybe some pedals that wont fall apart.

    Haha yeah, crossing the creek at Bear hole is generally not recommended. I just wanted to hit some trails we could actually ride instead of having to hike back up tennis ball hill. I'm gone this weekend but if you wanted to hit up the park next weekend during the day we could check some stuff out.

  17. #417
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    What do people think about a North Rim -> B-Trail -> Middle/Lower loop for tomorrow? It's been a little while since I've done that route.
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  18. #418
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    I did a lunchtime ride and the trails are purrrrrrrfect after that little rain last night. Hit it.

  19. #419
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    B

    Thanks to whoever (North Rim Sports?) cleaned up B a bit, especially those 2 rocks someone put below that tight little step down section about 1/4 way down.
    Retards trying to make the trails too easy is a no-no...
    BIKES: ZERO GALLONS PER MILE.

  20. #420
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    Yeah...my screws keep backing out on these shitty 2 piece pedals...even normal riding. So I need to get pedals bad

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmogSUX
    Yeah...my screws keep backing out on these shitty 2 piece pedals...even normal riding. So I need to get pedals bad
    decent pedals aren't too expensive, but you should be able to fix that style with loctite for now

  22. #422
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    Haha I already lost one screw and the the metal part of the pedal is all bent from me cranking on it last ride. I'm just going to invest in the metal pedals on Monday when I'm paid.

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmogSUX
    Haha I already lost one screw and the the metal part of the pedal is all bent from me cranking on it last ride. I'm just going to invest in the metal pedals on Monday when I'm paid.
    I've got some Time ATAC's and some Egg Beaters I'm selling if you need pedals. I'll let them go cheap.

  24. #424
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    Going out at about 5 today. Probably do park road, cross creek, up 10 mile, down Guardians. Might see you night riders on my way out.

  25. #425
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    Tiner I'll hit you up about whether or not I want those pedals after I get paid.

    And I'm going out Thursday, but earlier than the usual group due to my not having a decent light on my bike.

  26. #426
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    I'm headed out now I suck with names/faces so if you recognize me just yell at me haha I'll be on my silver/black Cannondale F7 and a Red Helmet.

  27. #427
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    Are the trails closed completely for the season? Is there any chance if the ground dries out a bit that the city will open the system back up? I talked with a park worker and they said that even the road was closed to riding above diversion dam. I found that odd, as the signs posted on the gate say the lower road is open year round to bikes. I donít want to cause any trails damage but I still want to get out and ride as much as possible before winter. I guess Iíll be spending time in Oroville. Any clarification?

  28. #428
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    As far as I know, the park road is open to bikes/horses/pedestrians all year. The trails unfortunately probably will be closed frequently while the wet weather lasts, but they were open earlier this week between periods of rain.

    This site is sometimes helpful, but they forget to update it from time to time: http://www.chico.ca.us/General_Servi...dwell_Park.asp

    On that note, anyone riding tonight? I was thinking of going out and if trails are closed just doing a fast park road up/back for a workout.
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  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by swill'n
    Are the trails closed completely for the season? Is there any chance if the ground dries out a bit that the city will open the system back up? I talked with a park worker and they said that even the road was closed to riding above diversion dam. I found that odd, as the signs posted on the gate say the lower road is open year round to bikes. I donít want to cause any trails damage but I still want to get out and ride as much as possible before winter. I guess Iíll be spending time in Oroville. Any clarification?
    Nope, the trails are not closed for the season. They reopen depending on conditions, and they probably be reopening pretty soon if it weren't for the rain coming this today. It's typically a couple days after rain that they reopen, but if it was a big storm it can be longer and there are a lot of storms that come through in succession it could even be a few weeks.

    I'm honestly not sure what diversion dam is, but the road through upper park has always been open to the creek crossing. It's good for getting the legs moving, but Oroville is much more fun for me.

  30. #430
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    ^^^ yeah, roughly a week of dry weather will open the trails

    But like I've said before, boomn needs to change his avatar as conditions dictate
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  31. #431
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    I was told that the road above the diversion dam is considered a trail and not a road. I don't think they would enforce it though. I'm predicting more closures this year. I'm headed to the 'ville.

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinercom
    ...I'm headed to the 'ville.
    or head up here to Whiskeytown - no trail closures here!
    (just wish I had time myself - werkin 7-days is killin me!)
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  33. #433
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    Went out on the night ride last tuesday (10-19}. We rode up north rim and back down middle trail. Half way down middle trail we ran into some barricades saying the trail was being worked on. Of course we had to see what was going on and WTF are they doing. Gravel and all kinds of ***** has been hauled up there. Is anyone else bothered by this?

  34. #434
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    Middle Trail Rehabilitation Project

    "Work began on the Project on October 11 and will last through November 19. The CA Department of Parks and Recreation provided a $175,802 grant for the project. The first element of the project will rehabilitate 700 feet of the Middle Trail, east of Parking Lot E above Day Camp. This grant funded project will incorporate sustainable trail building techniques i.e., a more curvilinear design, the addition of undulations - grade changes, out-slope, and the restoration of native habitat along the trail. These design features will help define the trail tread, allow water to drain from the trail reducing erosion and eliminate standing water on the trail. The result will be a sustainable-all weather trail. This project utilizes crews of California Conservation Corps (CCC) members from the Chico satellite office and a trail crew from Redding. During the week of October 20 to 27th, the Redding CCC crew will camp overnight at Day Camp in Upper Bidwell Park to allow for more efficiency in the project. Signs advising visitors of the project will be posted and park users are requested to use alternative routes to avoid the Middle Trail worksite. Once complete, Staff would like to host a field trip for Commissioners to tour the project. We plan to host a public tour with the trail-themed, spring 2011 Park Talk."

    http://www.chico.ca.us/government/mi...andreports.pdf

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by swill'n
    "Work began on the Project on October 11 and will last through November 19. The CA Department of Parks and Recreation provided a $175,802 grant for the project. The first element of the project will rehabilitate 700 feet of the Middle Trail, east of Parking Lot E above Day Camp. This grant funded project will incorporate sustainable trail building techniques i.e., a more curvilinear design, the addition of undulations - grade changes, out-slope, and the restoration of native habitat along the trail. These design features will help define the trail tread, allow water to drain from the trail reducing erosion and eliminate standing water on the trail. The result will be a sustainable-all weather trail. This project utilizes crews of California Conservation Corps (CCC) members from the Chico satellite office and a trail crew from Redding. During the week of October 20 to 27th, the Redding CCC crew will camp overnight at Day Camp in Upper Bidwell Park to allow for more efficiency in the project. Signs advising visitors of the project will be posted and park users are requested to use alternative routes to avoid the Middle Trail worksite. Once complete, Staff would like to host a field trip for Commissioners to tour the project. We plan to host a public tour with the trail-themed, spring 2011 Park Talk."

    http://www.chico.ca.us/government/mi...andreports.pdf
    I worried at first when I rear on the ChicoER (iirc) that they were working on Middle Trail and thought they might be turning it into a big smooth path, but reading those details actually makes me very hopeful and cautiously excited! I'm guessing "all weather trail" doesn't mean it will be open for bikes when wet, just that it won't have huge puddles and mud bogs for hikers to deal with

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctownposse
    Went out on the night ride last tuesday (10-19}. We rode up north rim and back down middle trail. Half way down middle trail we ran into some barricades saying the trail was being worked on. Of course we had to see what was going on and WTF are they doing. Gravel and all kinds of ***** has been hauled up there. Is anyone else bothered by this?
    In a word, YES! I'm all for doing trail maintenance, but I'd rather them not turn middle trail into smooth singletrack. It's easy enough for hiking, running, biking as it is, they don't need to change it.
    "Got everything you need?"

  37. #437
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    Went out this morning and ran the trails. Checked out that section of middle. Definitely sanitized... A LOT. I did like the flow though. It looks nice and will make the newbies and intermediate riders happy. Especially at the toilet bowl section.

    Will post pics later if I get a chance.

  38. #438
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    Rode Oroville today with Olson and I gotta say it was pretty sweet. I thought it would be a muddy cow crappy mess but it wasn't. I think I'll be doing a lot of riding there this winter due to the pansy a$$ park people closing the trails all the time.

  39. #439
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    Just curious, what trails did you ride? I was out there yesterday and had a blast on the smoothness. Plus it was the first day out ridding singletrack with my new rig. Potter ravine was a cool ride but short, need recommendations on where I should head next. Hereís a pic:
    Photobucket

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by swill'n
    Just curious, what trails did you ride? I was out there yesterday and had a blast on the smoothness. Plus it was the first day out ridding singletrack with my new rig. Potter ravine was a cool ride but short, need recommendations on where I should head next. Here’s a pic:
    Photobucket
    Yeah, we climbed up to the dam via the downhill course, then we caught Potters for awhile and climbed up Dead Cow I think. Then we rode back to the truck on the singletrack. I think that's the Brad Freeman trail. Is that a Redline frame? That's a nice looking build.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinercom
    Yeah, we climbed up to the dam via the downhill course, then we caught Potters for awhile and climbed up Dead Cow I think. Then we rode back to the truck on the singletrack. I think that's the Brad Freeman trail. Is that a Redline frame? That's a nice looking build.
    Re:the build. Thanks.
    Hi all: 29er Story and Build

    Hopefully Bidwell will dry out soon.

  42. #442
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    Some of the middle trail work I mentioned:










    It looks great! Guardians could use some retaining wall/ledge work like this in spots.

  43. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickelbolt
    Some of the middle trail work I mentioned:


    It looks great! Guardians could use some retaining wall/ledge work like this in spots.
    interesting. I'm sad about the loss of that initial steep drop-in next to the bolder, but the cutting around was really making a mess there and the area needed some bolstering.

    thanks for taking the pictures

  44. #444
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    I'm torn about these changes. It was one of the more challenging spots on middle trail, which I will miss. On the other hand, it will likely keep more dirt on the trail and cut down on erosion so that's a good thing as well. Guess I'll have to ride it and see what's up. Are the trails open today?

    BTW, me and another rider are going to head up to Oroville this evening to ride with the crew up there. Meeting at the bathrooms on the south side before the dam @ 6pm if anyone wants to join.
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  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
    I'm torn about these changes. It was one of the more challenging spots on middle trail, which I will miss. On the other hand, it will likely keep more dirt on the trail and cut down on erosion so that's a good thing as well. Guess I'll have to ride it and see what's up. Are the trails open today?

    BTW, me and another rider are going to head up to Oroville this evening to ride with the crew up there. Meeting at the bathrooms on the south side before the dam @ 6pm if anyone wants to join.
    trails were still closed this afternoon. Maybe tomorrow. Seemed pretty dry as we hiked around middle and lower trail.

  46. #446
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    I, personally think it's nice - not that I couldn't clean it
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  47. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickelbolt
    trails were still closed this afternoon. Maybe tomorrow. Seemed pretty dry as we hiked around middle and lower trail.
    Rode Oroville for the first time last night with the "Lake Oroville Biking Buddies" crew out there. Pretty nice trails, very smooth, fast and flowy (but I hate that word). It's totally worth the drive out, and I think we should do a "field trip" out there next time the Bidwell trails are closed.
    "Got everything you need?"

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
    Rode Oroville for the first time last night with the "Lake Oroville Biking Buddies" crew out there. Pretty nice trails, very smooth, fast and flowy (but I hate that word). It's totally worth the drive out, and I think we should do a "field trip" out there next time the Bidwell trails are closed.
    yep, it's a very nice change of pace from Bidwell and it seems to work my lungs more than Bidwell

    I've gone the last two Saturdays with some friends. This last weekend we were a couple miles out on North Fork when the downpour started. What a blast that was flying back through the rain and trying not to grin too much just so we didn't get mud in our mouths, lol

  49. #449
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    Hell yeah! I know, my face started hurting from smiling so much during a long downhill section. I won't lie, I let out a couple "woohooooooo"'s last night.
    "Got everything you need?"

  50. #450
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    I'm needing to buy some Maxima fork oil for my RockShox fork; any particular motorsports store in Chico you guys can recommend?

  51. #451
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    I would try Chico Motorsports on Park Ave. If you're on the north end of town, Apex Mototech is on Esplanade next to Smog Busters, and while a small shop would probably have Maxima. He primarily services high end sport bikes, Ducati's mostly.
    "Got everything you need?"

  52. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
    I would try Chico Motorsports on Park Ave. If you're on the north end of town, Apex Mototech is on Esplanade next to Smog Busters, and while a small shop would probably have Maxima. He primarily services high end sport bikes, Ducati's mostly.
    Thanks, I'll give those guys a call

  53. #453
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    closed means closed

    So, last week (while the trails were closed) I saw a few dumbfu.cks riding their bikes along middle and lower trails and then proceeding past horseshoe lake.
    Also saw a few idiots riding down gaurdians...

    It's time for some vigilante enforcement of closed trails.

  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamWOW
    So, last week (while the trails were closed) I saw a few dumbfu.cks riding their bikes along middle and lower trails and then proceeding past horseshoe lake.
    Also saw a few idiots riding down gaurdians...

    It's time for some vigilante enforcement of closed trails.
    you have the power!
    Just soak 'em up!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  55. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamWOW
    So, last week (while the trails were closed) I saw a few dumbfu.cks riding their bikes along middle and lower trails and then proceeding past horseshoe lake.
    Also saw a few idiots riding down gaurdians...

    It's time for some vigilante enforcement of closed trails.

    I saw a few as well. But I don't go all Ranger Rick or Vigilante on 'em. I might say something once in a while, but the truth is there needs to be more signage and enforcement. I always see Rangers up at Bear Hole cracking down on the boozers. But I've never actually witnessed a Ranger do anything to anyone who's riding the trails while closed. Never even heard of one doing anything either. Does anyone know what the punishment is for riding the trails while closed? I've never noticed anything posted.

    I think the majority of people don't do it knowingly. They simply don't see those small "Closed" signs in yellow font.

  56. #456
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    I was one of those, what did you call us, "dumbfu.cks", right, who was riding last week when the trails were supposedly closed. I learned this after the fact.
    Really, I didn't even check to see if the trails were closed or not because it hadn't rained for a few days and the trails were PERFECT. I saw two or three locations where there was a bit of standing water and avoided the puddles. It's easy to do when the trails are so wide. The idea of the trails being closed was so foreign to me because of the trail conditions and recent weather I didn't even bother checking if they were open.
    After spending four months last winter riding up and down the Park Road and hearing rumors of cyclists getting yelled at for riding Crown Point, i'm getting less patient with trail closures.
    The trails were closed yesterday ya know. After two days of dry warm weather, closed.
    For those of us that ride six days a week and loathe to be on the road bike, options are few in the winter.
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  57. #457
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    According to: http://www.chico.ca.us/General_Servi...dwell_Park.asp park trails are closed again today. This is bull*****.
    Take a look at and consider "liking" our VAR Facebook and VAR Instagram pages.

  58. #458
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    I agree that it's BS the trails are closed this long after any rain...but that is beside the point. If people ride trails when they are closed it will be used against all riders. There are people that would like nothing better than to ban bikes entirely from everything but the park road. Please don't give them any ammo by riding on closed trails.

    As idiotic as some of these trail closures are, those are the rules to abide by if we want to keep MTB'ing alive in Upper Bidwell. BTW, if you must ride it's just 35 minutes from Hwy99 in Chico to the parking lot at the Lake Oroville dam. There are TONS of trails up there on both sides and below the dam and they are never closed even in the middle of a rainstorm.
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  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    I was one of those, what did you call us, "dumbfu.cks", right, who was riding last week when the trails were supposedly closed. I learned this after the fact.
    Really, I didn't even check to see if the trails were closed or not because it hadn't rained for a few days and the trails were PERFECT. I saw two or three locations where there was a bit of standing water and avoided the puddles. It's easy to do when the trails are so wide. The idea of the trails being closed was so foreign to me because of the trail conditions and recent weather I didn't even bother checking if they were open.
    After spending four months last winter riding up and down the Park Road and hearing rumors of cyclists getting yelled at for riding Crown Point, i'm getting less patient with trail closures.
    The trails were closed yesterday ya know. After two days of dry warm weather, closed.
    For those of us that ride six days a week and loathe to be on the road bike, options are few in the winter.
    the standing water and large mud areas are what they focus on, especially on the much more highly traveled middle and lower trails which coincidentally and unfortunately are the two trails that seem to drain the worst. Even if most of the trails are in good condition, if there are bad sections on these trails they will generally leave them closed as a lot of travel through these areas can make a huge mess and semi-permanently affect the trail. Because of the type of clay mud we have those deep mud ruts and holes from tires and horses can stick around for months and months until they are worn down over time. Also, with that many people riding around to avoid the puddles and mud pits the trails end up growing much wider and eroding the area around it, which turns interesting singletrack into less interesting doubletrack and can make mud problems worse in the future

    All that said, I fully agree with what TwoHeads just said. The reasons don't matter as much as playing along to avoid bigger problems

  60. #460
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    I understand your point.
    However there are too many mountain bikers to allow a ban to happen.
    Isn't the method of trail closure new to the park as of last year (I just moved here)? Wasn't the park closed more this past winter than in years previous?

    If there was a real mountain bike presence, an organized presence then we could get some of this changed.

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  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    I understand your point.
    However there are too many mountain bikers to allow a ban to happen.
    Isn't the method of trail closure new to the park as of last year (I just moved here)? Wasn't the park closed more this past winter than in years previous?

    If there was a real mountain bike presence, an organized presence then we could get some of this changed.

    Have you guys joined the Upper Bidwell Trail Stewardship on Facebook?
    nope, closures have been around for a long time. Trails were closed so much last year because we had such an incredibly wet winter. The year before was much drier and the trails were opened quite a bit

    IIRC they changed some of their rules last year to establish more official standards for when to close and when not to close, and I believe they might have extended that time-frame a little bit, but it wasn't a big change if they did

  62. #462
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    I never knew a trail stewardship group existed on facebook. Got a link?
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  63. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
    I never knew a trail stewardship group existed on facebook. Got a link?
    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=...35555163163294
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  64. #464
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    Also, in my experience, if you don't like something (like the bloody trail closures) you can do the following:
    1) Ignore the rules and do what you want anyway.
    2) Obey the rules at a detriment to your quality of life.
    or
    3) Change the rules to reflect what you want to do.

    I like number three.
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  65. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    Also, in my experience, if you don't like something (like the bloody trail closures) you can do the following:
    1) Ignore the rules and do what you want anyway.
    2) Obey the rules at a detriment to your quality of life.
    or
    3) Change the rules to reflect what you want to do.

    I like number three.
    It's definitely lame that the trails are still closed today.

    I'm not much of a Facebook'r but I'll sign up on that stewardship page. Thanks.

  66. #466
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    Thanks for the FB link, I've requested to join. I don't live far from the park, so if there are any work days I'd be happy to come out and help.

    You know, I always wonder about that adjoining property on the north side of the park while I'm taking a breather at the top of north rim. Is there any standard for private property owners to extend an easement or temporary allowance for trails? Is there a way for the city to pay to compensate the owner for access? It seems a great way to mitigate trail impact with a growing population is to expand the amount of trails available. What about the Chico State reserve area on 10 Mile House? Surely allowing a singletrack trail isn't going to harm the wildlife and vegetation or make any lasting impact.

    I'd like nothing better than to have more trail options in upper bidwell and surrounding area. Rather than have groups hitting the same Upper Upper/Middle/Lower loop 3x a week, expand the trail system and spread the impact while simultaneously expanding access to this public resource.
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  67. #467
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    Send them an e-mail
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  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    ...However there are too many mountain bikers to allow a ban to happen.
    Isn't the ...
    Musta never heard of the "Friends of Bidwell"
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  69. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by norcalchico
    Send them an e-mail
    parkinfo@ci.chico.ca.us
    Thanks, Tim. I just emailed them ask 'em to open the trails. That oughta' do it.

  70. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing
    You know, I always wonder about that adjoining property on the north side of the park while I'm taking a breather at the top of north rim. Is there any standard for private property owners to extend an easement or temporary allowance for trails? Is there a way for the city to pay to compensate the owner for access? It seems a great way to mitigate trail impact with a growing population is to expand the amount of trails available. What about the Chico State reserve area on 10 Mile House? Surely allowing a singletrack trail isn't going to harm the wildlife and vegetation or make any lasting impact.

    I'd like nothing better than to have more trail options in upper bidwell and surrounding area. Rather than have groups hitting the same Upper Upper/Middle/Lower loop 3x a week, expand the trail system and spread the impact while simultaneously expanding access to this public resource.
    That would be very, very cool to extend over to the next ridge north! However, I've heard liability can be a huge issue for letting the public use private land like that, so I doubt it would really work unless we convinced said land owner to be generous and deed it to the city, which would really be even better I'm curious who does own that and what it is zoned for

  71. #471
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    What about the Musty Buck Preserve (unsure of current name), who owns that and why is it closed to bikes? It's big.
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  72. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickelbolt
    Thanks, Tim. I just emailed them ask 'em to open the trails. That oughta' do it.
    You are pretty persuasive

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    What about the Musty Buck Preserve (unsure of current name), who owns that and why is it closed to bikes? It's big.
    hadn't heard of it so I had to google it. Apparently its all privately owned now along with a lot of other nearby land

  74. #474
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    Well, Kohrdt sounds like a nice guy! Maybe he'd be willing to open up the Musty Buck to some biking/hiking trails, and maybe even a hike-in campground.
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  75. #475
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    nice try

    I'm not sure that would work.
    That's like saying there are too many beer drinkers in the U.S. so we should allow drunk driving...??
    Rules are there for a reason; in this case, to not damage the trails (by going through them to create tire ruts, going around them to cause more trail erosion or by loosening already moist, loose rocks...).
    You really think creating a "mob" of bikers is going to do anything? No.
    Trails are multi-use and certain rules apply to certain groups for obvious reasons.
    If you don't like it, go to Oroville or ride the park road like a good citizen. Maybe try a road bike. Or, watch a mtb video in the meantime.
    By the way, the upper-middle part of guardians is fuked up, almost no trail left to ride on...some *legal* retaining walls need to be built up with the parks' approval.
    hint hint "trail stewardship" people.

    I'll be the crazy chick yelling at people on closed trail days if I see you riding!

    Quote Originally Posted by vuduvgn
    I understand your point.
    However there are too many mountain bikers to allow a ban to happen.

    If there was a real mountain bike presence, an organized presence then we could get some of this changed.

  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamWOW
    I'm not sure that would work.
    That's like saying there are too many beer drinkers in the U.S. so we should allow drunk driving...??
    Rules are there for a reason; in this case, to not damage the trails (by going through them to create tire ruts, going around them to cause more trail erosion or by loosening already moist, loose rocks...).
    You really think creating a "mob" of bikers is going to do anything? No.
    Trails are multi-use and certain rules apply to certain groups for obvious reasons.
    If you don't like it, go to Oroville or ride the park road like a good citizen. Maybe try a road bike. Or, watch a mtb video in the meantime.
    By the way, the upper-middle part of guardians is fuked up, almost no trail left to ride on...some *legal* retaining walls need to be built up with the parks' approval.
    hint hint "trail stewardship" people.

    I'll be the crazy chick yelling at people on closed trail days if I see you riding!
    I don't think he's talking about a "mob" of bikers. I think he's talking about a group working as one trying to persuade the powers that be to change the way they think. Of course we should abide by the rules as they are now but that doesn't change the fact that the rules suck. The park should be open today and if the people in charge gave a crap, it would be.

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamWOW
    By the way, the upper-middle part of guardians is fuked up, almost no trail left to ride on...some *legal* retaining walls need to be built up with the parks' approval.
    hint hint "trail stewardship" people.

    I'll be the crazy chick yelling at people on closed trail days if I see you riding!
    Agree about Guardians. I'm up for some early morning weekend work days.

    Trails had better open tomorrow or you (crazy chick) are gonna blow out a lung yelling at the mobbers.

  78. #478
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    good job nickelbolt, you got them to open the trails today

  79. #479
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    Trails are open. Finally.
    Treat them wisely...
    And while I'm all for the trails being closed to protect them while wet, this rule should apply to everyone.
    While reading the newly posted "Wet Weather Management Plan" on the city's website:
    http://www.chico.ca.us/general_servi...9Revisions.pdf
    it seems as though the main targets are bike riders...
    There are some sections where there it total bias against cyclists (albeit for good reason, usually...)
    Foot traffic on closed trails is just as bad for trail integrity and should not be overlooked (as they are doing now). I've seen numerous devastating damage areas caused by foot traffic.
    Time to confront the park council committee...
    Anyone down to ride later this afternoon?
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  81. #481
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    Finally! I'm off to ride North Rim to B for the first time on the new bike. Hope others enjoy the open trails as well.

    Now get off the computer and ride!

    edit/

    Update: Too much fun. Conditions: excellent.
    Last edited by swill'n; 11-04-2010 at 01:13 PM.

  82. #482
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    Anyone for Oroville tomorrow or Thursday?
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  83. #483
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    I'm down to ride tomorrow in Oroville. Let me know when and where to meet. Trails should be nice as long as its not raining. I usually like to park across the dam near the boat launch. Let me know.

  84. #484
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    Trails are closed today.
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  85. #485
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    Headed up to Oroville this past weekend with a couple people from the Tues/Thurs group. I had never been on the trails from the Diversion Pool to the top of the Dam. Very cool, very fun ride...the downhill was a blast.

    http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...d554a&t=h&z=14
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  86. #486
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    Any Middle trail updates? Is the work complete, open?

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    As of tuesday night when I went out, overall the trails were open. There were a couple wet spots in the dips but otherwise everything was dry. However, middle trail still has the same section closed for work. From just before toilet bowl out to the cutover to the start of lower trail is still blocked off with signs.

    The way the forecast is looking though everything will probably be closed up by tomorrow or this weekend, so get out and ride while you still can.

  88. #488
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    Along with a few department store bike owners, I also saw some Chico State bike team kids riding on closed trails these past few days...a couple light haired girls included.
    They are part of the reason the trails are so screwed up lately; novice riders on entry level bikes with no regard for the rules.
    The university will be hearing about their recent outings on closed trails soon...maybe they will get "punishment" by getting assigned trail work.
    If you know these kids, tell them to keep off of closed trails.
    All eyes are watching.

  89. #489
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    If they don't want people on closed trails the rangers need to ticket them. There is no way we can keep everyone off the trails unless there is a penalty. Most people don't understand why the trails are closed or don't care about erosion control. BUT, they will care about having to pay a fine. Just talking to someone on the trails is not going to solve the problem, they can read and know the trails are closed.
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  90. #490
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    You guys are starting to sound anti-mtb.
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  91. #491
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    I'm pro-(whatever keeps the trails open for MTB).
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  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn
    However, I've heard liability can be a huge issue for letting the public use private land like that, so I doubt it would really work unless we convinced said land owner to be generous and deed it to the city, which would really be even better.
    In California we have a Recreational Land Use Statute that aims to protect private land owners from liability:

    http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/recreate/ca_rec.htm

    IANAL, etc...

  93. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by dr.welby
    In California we have a Recreational Land Use Statute that aims to protect private land owners from liability:

    http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/recreate/ca_rec.htm

    IANAL, etc...
    hey, that's pretty cool. thanks

  94. #494
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    Cool, that sounds like a decent avenue of approach for using some private land around the park. It seems that private land owners wouldn't frown upon accepting $10k or so per year for use of their land as long as they are protected against liability. Start up an all-volunteer committee to design, construct and maintain trails on the property and there would be a lot more riding around Chico to do.

    An owner of any estate or any other interest in real property, whether possessory or nonpossessory, owes no duty of care to keep the premises safe for entry or use by others for any recreational purpose or to give any warning of hazardous conditions, uses of, structures, or activities on such premises to persons entering for such purpose, except as provided in this section.

    A "recreational purpose," as used in this section, includes such activities as fishing, hunting, camping, water sports, hiking, spelunking, sport parachuting, riding, including animal riding, snowmobiling, and all other types of vehicular riding, rock collecting, sightseeing, picnicking, nature study, nature contacting, recreational gardening, gleaning, hang gliding, winter sports, and viewing or enjoying historical, archaeological, scenic, natural, or scientific sites.
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  95. #495
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    The trail closure system has not always been in place. All through the 80's you could ride whenever you wanted. B trail and Guardian (the best trails in the park) were bootleg trails that were later included in the official map. While narrow and technical, they generally drain better than lower, middle, and upper trails. The blanket closure of the entire park in wet weather is ridiculous. It would make much more sense to fix the few trouble spots using IMBA standards and volunteer labor. You can't tell me that North Rim trail, which is solid rock, is being harmed by riding bikes on it. Places like Scotland and British Columbia have constant rain and also some of the best trails in the world. Rock armoring, wood bridges, rolling grade dips, and other techniques could all be used make our trails what they could be, and keep them open. There is a lot of energy in the Chico community that could make this change happen. We need to get a proposal together and take it to the person at the city who could work with us on this.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShamWOW
    Along with a few department store bike owners, I also saw some Chico State bike team kids riding on closed trails these past few days...a couple light haired girls included.
    They are part of the reason the trails are so screwed up lately; novice riders on entry level bikes with no regard for the rules.
    The university will be hearing about their recent outings on closed trails soon...maybe they will get "punishment" by getting assigned trail work.
    If you know these kids, tell them to keep off of closed trails.
    All eyes are watching.
    yup .... and even though the closures of solid rock trails mentioned earlier in this thread piss us all off ... drive the 15 miles and ride oroville but dont break the park rules just because you think they are stupid

    (im guilty of this too, cause a lot of times they would forget to change the sign at a couple of the south rim trailheads so id have my excuse)
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  97. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melt
    yup .... and even though the closures of solid rock trails mentioned earlier in this thread piss us all off ... drive the 15 miles and ride oroville but dont break the park rules just because you think they are stupid

    (im guilty of this too, cause a lot of times they would forget to change the sign at a couple of the south rim trailheads so id have my excuse)
    I'm pretty much sick of the whole trail closure thing. Bidwell is cool and all, but it's treated like it's frickin Yosemite or Yellowstone or something. I was lucky enough to have lived in Utah for awhile and they don't close trails when it rains. You use your best judgement. Open the stupid trails and let people ride. I don't think half the people that ***** about all this ride that much anyway. A few weeks ago when the trails opened after being closed for 2 weeks after a wussy rainstorm, me and Olson went out and we didn't see another rider the whole time. I'm sick of this whole debate. I agree, drive to frickin Oroville. Bidwell park sucks. I'm done.
    Last edited by tinercom; 11-30-2010 at 10:05 PM.

  98. #498
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    gotta love FoB!!!
    http://www.friendsofbidwellpark.org/dgp1.html

    "Damage from Multiple Trails"
    absolutely terrible...


    Of course, this is 'OK'
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  99. #499
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    Feel free to call me "anti MTB" if you'd like, but I'm sad to say that us mountain bikers do the most harm to our trails. Unfortunately, we have very different soil than BC or Scotland and as soon as people start riding off the trail, the thin layer of silt on top of the volcanic rock will start eroding, and then we're all screwed. I hate horses just as much as everyone and think it's pretty lame that hikers can legally screw up the wet trails while he can't, but after riding upper park for 15 years, the worst damage to trails that I have seen is from people riding the "go around" lines. Novice riders will always be a problem, but unfortunately, I think quite a bit of the damage is from good riders always riding the "fast" line even if it is off the established trail. These slightly off the trail lines are the ones that continue to erode and widen the trails. South Rim used to be all singletrack, now it is looking more and more like North Rim and unfortunately will take a hell of a lot of work to get back to a "sustainable" trail.

    If the only way to make the trails stay open in wet weather is to make them all like the recent work on Middle, I would rather they just stayed closed in the rain. We need to figure out how to make the trails sustainable without ruining good technical sections.

    rant over.

  100. #500
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    I would like to see two things happen in Chico:
    1. Open the good trails to mountain biking year round.
    2. Rather than spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on sanitizing perfectly good trails, identify the few problem areas and let us fix them for free. Better yet, give me a few hundred grand and I will build you a mountain bike paradise.

    I saw the trail repair guy earlier this year blocking off the traditional technical line around an oak tree that had been there since I first rode it in the 80's. He made it so the cheater line is now the official trail.

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