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  1. #1
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    New Trails for Graeagle/Portola/Lakes Basin - Take this survey please!

    Hey folks, the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship (SBTS) in conjunction with Trails for Recreation And Community (TRAC) are planning some major additions to the area. We need you to take this survey so we can share your input with the USFS and make this dream a reality. We posted this earlier under a somewhat obscure title but only a few of you took the survey as you may have missed it. The hope is to adopt a Master Plan with huge additions to the area, connecting to Mills Peak Trail or elsewhere. It is extremely helpful if you add comments. Post whatever makes your heart sing, but here is the link and these are some Talking Points I used:

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JV2CHHJ

    1. We want long high quality trails

    2. Connecting Graeagle to Portola from Mills Peak Trail to Beckwourth Peak would be a great start. (40 miles+) !!!

    3. We want long trails so we can spend a few days in Plumas County, not just a day visit.

    4. We want a singletrack to reroute us around the fireroad section of Mills Peak Trail.

    Your participation will go a long way towards making this a reality.

    Ronski thanks you!!

  2. #2
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    Done. Great trails up there Ronski! Keep up the good work!!

  3. #3
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    With your input and support, this area will become a destination for riding that will rival anywhere. Let's do this!

  4. #4
    Dropshot Champ!
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    Done, thanks for posting

  5. #5
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    the map

    Here's the map that has been generated through public meetings, survey results and public outreach. Click here for a full size image of the Mohawk Trail System. This is an ambitious economic development project that will help strengthen our community and rebuild our economy and of course, produce rad trails to ride. Please take a moment to fill out the survey, we'll make it worth your while by building world class singletrack for your enjoyment.
    New Trails for Graeagle/Portola/Lakes Basin - Take this survey please!-10965351864_db85a71e63_c.jpg

  6. #6
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    Done! I look forward to riding some new trails next time I'm up there.

  7. #7
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    Done - nice work!

  8. #8
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    New Trails for Graeagle/Portola/Lakes Basin - Take this survey please!

    Done.

  9. #9
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    done, awesome work you guys are doing!

  10. #10
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    Done and shared. Thanks!

  11. #11
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    Howling Dogs, it won't become a reality unless there is a local bike shop that is open during regular business hours. I stopped by twice last summer for new brakes during your hours posted as open and you weren't. That was two long drives wasted. I'm getting the word out that we can't depend on your services.

    Jim

  12. #12
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    Ronski,

    You need to tell us whether selection 1 is high or low for this survey.

    Last summer I stopped by the visitor center at 70 and 89 to ask where the brewery is and the woman working there very enthusiastically showed me the trails project. This was the first I heard of it.

    As a cross country trials rider I find the plans interesting but not compelling. My wife and I are into the longer rides but we like some gravity like the Downieville Downhill or Cannell Trail and Plunge near Kernville in the Southern Sierra.

    Second to that we like 12 - 15 mile loops with little or no road riding. If we have to ride roads for many miles to return to the trailhead then we'll go elsewhere, like Moab or Fruita.

    We spend $2,500 - $3,000 on our annual Moab trip. It would be much higher if we needed significant vehicle or body repairs. This includes a cabin in an RV park. Camping would save about $300 - $400.

    We're in love with Moab and the trails. There are many loops and shuttle services. Just as important is there is a mountain biking and outdoor recreation culture in the town. It is fun to hang out there. Kernville and Downieville are similar but much smaller. Moab could hold us for months. Kernville and Downieville for several days each.

    I don't see Graeagle or the other towns developing that culture easily. Do the residents really want a large active user group like mountain bikers in their towns? Sure, those towns survived loggers and hunters but most of that was decades ago. They need a field trip to Moab :-)

    I suggest picking one town and making that the MTB base camp. The locals need to really get into MTB and hosting us.

    I started camping in that area in 1953 with my parents and deer hunted there in the 60's and 70's so I know the terrain and towns. I also know that particular dust well :-)

    I would start developing with a base town and multiple diverse 5 to 10 mile loop and flow rides nearby. You need at least 2 fall line plunges. Think ski area design. This will create a destination. It will appeal to a larger market. If every town tries to get a little of the business now then no town will get enough to matter.

    Hope this feedback helps.

    Jim

  13. #13
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    Done, thanks for getting the interest out there.

  14. #14
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    done, and thanks for the great work on the Mills Peak trail!

    The fire road section of the Mills Peak trail, should be replaced with a similar section of trail as above/below, it's not bad as is if you no-brake the lower half

  15. #15
    I like mtn biking, too
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    That's pretty sneaky that they want you to rate things from 1-4 but don't explain what the scale means. For example, 1 could mean the lowest rating, or 1 could be highest in terms of priority. Can someone please help me figure out what 1 - 4 means?

    Edit: I see now. It all became clear when I picked one and the auto-fill happened. If you select priority 1 for one thing, the rest get filled in sequentially. I assume 1 means highest then.
    Never use your face as a brake pad.
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  16. #16
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    shredchic,

    The trouble is that if we don't know for sure what the ratings are then the whole survey becomes a mess. They will never know which way people interpreted the rankings so the survey has zero value. At this point it is probably worthless for anything.

    Jim

  17. #17
    Just Ride
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    New Trails for Graeagle/Portola/Lakes Basin - Take this survey please!

    Done, keep up the great work!

  18. #18
    I like mtn biking, too
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpreston View Post
    shredchic,

    The trouble is that if we don't know for sure what the ratings are then the whole survey becomes a mess. They will never know which way people interpreted the rankings so the survey has zero value. At this point it is probably worthless for anything.

    Jim
    ok - at least it seemed to make sense, but I guess you are right- it's still not 100% certain what is high/low unless they explicitly spell that out on the survey itself.
    Never use your face as a brake pad.
    -Jake Watson

  19. #19
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    shredchic,

    Right. We don't know what the author was thinking. European schools grade 1 - 5 with 5 being the best. Most ratings systems online use 1 - 5 stars with 5 being the best.

    Or was the survey author thinking 1st choice, 2nd choice, ...

    And now we don't know how the guys above interpreted this rating system but they filled it out. So now the whole point of the survey is lost. It is garbage. To bad because it is a good cause.

    It looks to me from this and from talking to people in the Graeagle area that the folks promoting this project are rather ignorant of what to do. They seem to be winging it instead of hiring people with knowledge and experience or at least reading the various research available. If they have any chance of success they will have to up their game substantially. There have been a LOT of expensive failures in history for this topic.

    Jim

  20. #20
    More Torque
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    Done. Appreciate the work up there!

    -D

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpreston View Post
    shredchic,
    It looks to me from this and from talking to people in the Graeagle area that the folks promoting this project are rather ignorant of what to do. They seem to be winging it instead of hiring people with knowledge and experience or at least reading the various research available. If they have any chance of success they will have to up their game substantially. There have been a LOT of expensive failures in history for this topic.

    Jim
    These "ignorant folks" are the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship, and they are directly responsible for the Mills Peak Trail (3 years old), the Sunrise Trail (7 years old), the North Yuba Trail (5 years old +/-), the new Butcher extension (2 MONTHS old), the Mt. Hough trail network (currently under construction), and the many, many, MANY miles of buff trails, new bridges, and burly trail rockwork that you'll find all throughout the Lakes Basin and the Downieville area. Ironically, this means that you're already a fan of their "ignorant" work on the Downieville Downhill being that they are the ones that maintain it, the ones that have built the new single track up top, and the ones that have been putting on the Downieville Classic for 18 years now. Also, many of them also happen to live in and around Graeagle, thus I'd say they know the subject, and the region, far better than you... The design of the survey aside, perhaps you should turn your well-intentioned, but way off-the-mark comments into some real support for this project and the many others that they undertake by helping them out where you can really make a difference: Become a member

    BTW, if you can't find good fall line trails, good XC loops, and generally epic riding in the Graeagle/Lakes Basin area, you clearly didn't look!

  22. #22
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    Huntermos,

    I clearly said they are ignorant of a specific topic and your way-off flame isn't appropriate for these forums. Trail work doesn't make people qualified to do a hell of a lot of things and a couple are surveys and tourism development.

    You said Graeagle but the plan is for all the communities in the Mohawk Valley to get involved. That is a big red flag and often a source of failure. This is a topic I'm not ignorant about but apparently you are.

    Your list included nothing on the topic.

    I also don't need your lecture about supporting. I've volunteered there and sent a little money. Shove it.

    Jim

  23. #23
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    Way to ratchet it up there Jim. I rather gently gave back a little of your ignorant attitude and condescension towards the Stewardship, and those that work and volunteer for it -even inviting you to join it, and you tell me to shove it. You can disparage people and call them ignorant online but can't handle a little tongue in cheek chop busting?

    Why don't you all enlighten us about how off base they are, being that they've been more successful than most, if not all, trail advocacy organizations, especially in so short a time. Of course, I know a lot about these plans, I know a lot about how they came about, I know a lot about the expertise among the people at the Stewardship -both paid and volunteer- and I know that they have a far better idea of what they are doing then you give them credit for. The communities in and around the Mohawk Valley are involved, have wanted to be involved, and are -by and large- excited about the prospect of a multi-use trail network that will tie them together and provide an awesome resource that will draw even more people to the region. The fact that you believe that this little survey is the full extant of SBTS's research or knowledge into the demographics, economics, social conditions, and recreational marketing goes to show that you know next to nothing about the organization or those that work hard to make it succeed, which it has in FAR more ways than simply brushing trails.

    Among the many "ignorant" people that work or volunteer for the Stewardship are folks with: decades of marketing research experience; advanced degrees in finance, business, medicine, sociology, environmental and public policy, etc; and many successful business owners to name just a few. It's not just a bunch of locals with a few rakes and mcclouds keeping up dust on the weekends. You don't think that they know what they're doing, then tell me how they've been so successful, how did they get Plumas County, the City of Quincy, the USFS, and all the many stakeholders in the region to work together on the Mt. Hough trails project? Why has the scope and impacts (recreational, economic, social) of their efforts grown every year for the last decade?

    You see a single survey, designed to illicit the opinions of those NOT among the local government or stakeholder organizations that have been in this conversation for months if not years, as evidence of ignorance and naiveté among the Stewardship, when nothing could be further from the truth.

  24. #24
    I like mtn biking, too
    Reputation: shredchic's Avatar
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    I just wanna clarify, I love SBTS! Sunrise and Mills Peak are two of my favorite trails in the world so far. The other day I just wore a hole in my SBTS t-shirt. I totally wore it out. I was so bummed. I would just like them to clarify one little teeny thing on the survey - it would help them (and me) out! Thanks!!!

    (This thread needs some more <3)
    Never use your face as a brake pad.
    -Jake Watson

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntermos View Post
    These "ignorant folks" are the [URL="http://www.sierratrails.org"]BTW, if you can't find good fall line trails, good XC loops, and generally epic riding in the Graeagle/Lakes Basin area, you clearly didn't look!
    Most of the routes I've seen in the Lakes Basin / Mt Elwell area are out-and-backs on the same trail, or required an abundance of road and hike-a-bike to make a loop of things. I tend to like rides in the 5 hour / 40 mile range, have no problems with lots of climbing, and love flowy / rocky descents.

    If you can provide me with some tips or recommendations I'm all ears.

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