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  1. #26
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    The selections are rankings so 1 is your favorite.

    As for a fun loop, climb Mills, descend and then climb to Round Lake Trail, climb Round Lake to Oakland Pond Trail, climb Elwell, descend Smith Creek and cross over to Gray Eagle Creek to town. 5 minutes of pavement, or you can ride the dirt frontage back to the car. Epic, fun, and a hike a bike with stellar views near the top of Elwell. Brewing Lair after for cold ones. Might do this one tomorrow in fact, but we are pretty busy adding some sweet trail mileage in Quincy at Southpark.

    ronski

  2. #27
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    huntermos,

    1) There was nothing tongue-in-cheek about your flame. I only say shove it to flamers / trolls.

    2) I never mentioned SBTS in my post but your rant is about them. There are other people involved in this effort and I spent time with them last July. Also, I've watched that area struggle with developing tourism for a lot of decades and not much has changed. They have failed before with big plans and it appears they are setting up for failure again. This survey is only a minor part of that pattern. Same old pattern I've seen around the world. I really want them to win for a change.

    3) Check the dictionary please. Ignorance does not equal stupid. Your rant is as if I said stupid hicks from the hills. I did not. This makes you a flamer.

    4) I already made my suggestions above so try taking everything in context. I also mentioned that my opinion was informed by being on the ground and talking to people in Graeagle about this. Twice. Not the depth of a local but that's a well-known strength. I've been through this **** in tourism many times both paid and as a volunteer. There is a lot to know that you don't learn by being a local business person and the rest of your long list. They need professional help or a lot of self-study. If there are tourism development professionals involved in this effort it isn't yet obvious.


    I love the SBTS and wish I could contribute more. I offered over a decade ago to build a Website and have a donate button but no one took me up on the offer. Same with the Moab Trails Alliance. Now everyone is on board with that and doing much better :-) Maybe the same thing will happen this time with finding the right professionals to assist with their big plans.

    Jim

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpreston View Post
    I love the SBTS and wish I could contribute more. I offered over a decade ago to build a Website and have a donate button but no one took me up on the offer.
    Jim
    That would most likely be because your ideas/skills/"expertise" aren't all that you think they are... Why don't you trot out your many success stories on trail advocacy and the 100's of miles of trails you've built and show us how much more you know than the folks at the Stewardship -and those in Moab as well. Talking to an employee of the local tourist office, an inability to understand a 1-5 ranking system on a survey, threatening to talk trash about a local shop (which isn't part of SBTS by the way), and spending a few days in the area doesn't give you some great insight into the economics, social conditions, stakeholder wants/needs, and local demographics -or the inner workings of the Stewardship.

    You can't handle being called out for your statements, then you shouldn't make them.

  4. #29
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    Jesus how did a thread about taking a simple survey to help get some killer new trails, go to ****.

    I'll definitely be spending more time in the Graeagle if all this gets built out
    Go get that KOM "You Deserve" - http://www.digitalepo.com/index.php

  5. #30
    C'dale Rush Lefty
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    huntermos,

    This tread isn't about trails advocacy, it is about building tourism, but I have built a large organization in cooperation with the USFS, Coast Guard, state parks, and a bunch of business organizations. I've also been involved with groups promoting tourism in the US and other countries. I've also been a trail worker since the 60's and for a while a trail lead. I have no idea how many miles of trails.

    I've seen lots of failures including the area from Chilcoot to Quincy. They've been struggling since the logging jobs declined in the 60's. This is far from the first discussion that area has had on increasing tourism and they haven't done well with it There are lessons they can learn from others.

    You are condemning my offer to setup Websites with donation buttons years before they finally got around to it?

    You can't seem to read simple English. You jump to conclusions from your confirmation bias. My analysis of the survey is correct because at least I have some knowledge of surveys.

    I am not talking trash about SBTS or the other groups. Stop this ****.

    OK, I'm feeding the trolls. I'm not going to continue this BS.

    Jim

  6. #31
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    No! Please don't stop the ****, it's just starting to get good. I love mtbr

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronski View Post
    The selections are rankings so 1 is your favorite.

    As for a fun loop, climb Mills, descend and then climb to Round Lake Trail, climb Round Lake to Oakland Pond Trail, climb Elwell, descend Smith Creek and cross over to Gray Eagle Creek to town. 5 minutes of pavement, or you can ride the dirt frontage back to the car. Epic, fun, and a hike a bike with stellar views near the top of Elwell. Brewing Lair after for cold ones. Might do this one tomorrow in fact, but we are pretty busy adding some sweet trail mileage in Quincy at Southpark.

    ronski
    Thanks Ron, that'll go on my to-do list for next year. The Packer / Mills shuttle runs start to get repetitive after the third trip, would love to cover some new ground.

    I explored Elwell and the Lakes Basin once, following a course I downloaded from Mark Weir's Strava page. Far too much hike-a-bike for my taste - at least for someone of my ability level.

    Mountain Bike Ride Profile | Mt Elwell. "It's just 12 miles!" near Blairsden | Times and Records | Strava

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmpreston View Post
    huntermos,

    This tread isn't about trails advocacy, it is about building tourism, but I have built a large organization in cooperation with the USFS, Coast Guard, state parks, and a bunch of business organizations. I've also been involved with groups promoting tourism in the US and other countries. I've also been a trail worker since the 60's and for a while a trail lead. I have no idea how many miles of trails.

    I've seen lots of failures including the area from Chilcoot to Quincy. They've been struggling since the logging jobs declined in the 60's. This is far from the first discussion that area has had on increasing tourism and they haven't done well with it There are lessons they can learn from others.

    You are condemning my offer to setup Websites with donation buttons years before they finally got around to it?

    You can't seem to read simple English. You jump to conclusions from your confirmation bias. My analysis of the survey is correct because at least I have some knowledge of surveys.

    I am not talking trash about SBTS or the other groups. Stop this ****.

    OK, I'm feeding the trolls. I'm not going to continue this BS.

    Jim
    Zero credibility firmly established. We get it. You're still butthurt because some folks didn't want you making them a crappy website with a *gasp* DONATE button.

    How To Mountain Bike Switchbacks - YouTube

  9. #34
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    The survey looked pretty self explanatory to me. Each section is labeled "rank the items in the order they are important to you." I guess I don't get what the issue is. This is pretty much how all of the usage survey's I've filled out are written, in this area and others.
    Last edited by Fleezus; 11-27-2013 at 11:51 AM. Reason: Removed already answered question.

  10. #35
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    Mike,

    The Elwell riding/hike a bike ratio improves if you take the descent all the way to Graeagle. It's singletrack the entire way via Smith and/or Gray Eagle Creek. The hike up Elwell, is something that for me improves the character of the ride. It's not for everybody. Another loop option that is easier and has little to no hike a bike is to climb Mills then descend some combination of Bear Lake Trail, Long Lake Trail, Grassy Lake Trail, Smith Lake Trail and Gray Eagle Creek Trail. Lot's of options to add variation. The key component here is to climb Mills Peak to gain access to the high country. Mills is VERY climbable, and anyone that treats this strictly as a downhill is missing out.

    Here's the link to the survey if anyone wants to contribute their thoughts. Thanks to everyone who has already responded. Here's to long trails and lots of them!

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JV2CHHJ
    Last edited by ronski; 11-27-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronski View Post
    Mike,

    The Elwell riding/hike a bike ratio improves if you take the descent all the way to Graeagle. It's singletrack the entire way via Smith and/or Gray Eagle Creek. The hike up Elwell, is something that for me improves the character of the ride. It's not for everybody. Another loop option that is easier and has little to no hike a bike is to climb Mills then descend some combination of Bear Lake Trail, Long Lake Trail, Grassy Lake Trail, Smith Lake Trail and Gray Eagle Creek Trail. Lot's of options to add variation. The key component here is to climb Mills Peak to gain access to the high country. Mills is VERY climbable, and anyone that treats this strictly as a downhill is missing out.

    Here's the link to the survey if anyone wants to contribute their thoughts. Thanks to everyone who has already responded. Here's to long trails and lots of them!

    https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JV2CHHJ
    Realizing that too much or a long hike-A-bike on a miss route can kill the ride, they also add to the adventure. Great info ronski.
    Wait,who did he tell you that?....

  12. #37
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Uh, the survey seemed pretty simple to figure out. For me.
    Just saying.

    New Trails for Graeagle/Portola/Lakes Basin - Take this survey please!-dville-7-07-312.jpg

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  13. #38
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    That view is such a classic, and nothing but sweet singletrack all the way to town, followed by a stop at the Brewing Lair. Thanks for the photo!

  14. #39
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    Completed the survey, pretty straightforward. Love riding in the area, looking forward to next season and some visits to the Brewing Lair as well!

  15. #40
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    Done.

    (drama free)
    Why?

    Because we like the taste of freedom; because we like the smell of danger. ~ E. Abbey

  16. #41
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    Done. Not complicated or confusing. "Order of priority": first=1, second=2.... Not rocket science folks. Props to Ronski for taking some initiative to make killer trails we all can enjoy. Anyone else with poopy pants can suck it.

  17. #42
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    While we're on the subject of building trails, the Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship, Santa Cruz Bicycles, and Yuba Expeditions just launched another $5 a foot campaign. Buy a foot of new trail for $5 and get a chance to win your choice of any Santa Cruz built just the way you want it and a year's worth of shuttles with Yuba Expeditions.

    I just finished the promo video and now you have until January 5th to help us build some trail and maybe win the best summer of riding in your life! Buy more than a foot and increase your chances!

  18. #43
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    Done.
    and if I wanted drama, I'd ...........please rate your responses 1 to 5:

    ( ) wear a dress
    ( ) have an opinion about Lance Armstrong
    ( ) believe a politician, any politician
    ( ) tell my wife I bought another bike
    ( ) start a MTBR thread
    Consciousness, that annoying time between bike rides.

  19. #44
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    Lopaka, my wife has more bikes than me, so I'm going with Starting a Thread on MTBR. Just need to figure out if that makes it a 1 or a 5...

    Meanwhile, riding the Lakes Basin for the 5th day in a row tomorrow. The SBTS Crew has done some amazing work on Gray Eagle Creek, Long Lake and Smith Creek Trails and I can't get enough. Then it's back to Quincy to help add a bunch more mileage to that fine system.

    Thanks everyone for helping us build killer trail.

    Ronski

  20. #45
    Proud lame eBiker
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    So, I just tried taking this survey on Firefox and also Google Chrome.....but when I click on anything and give it a "1"...it out-fills so that the top item gets the "1" and goes straight down autofilling 2-3-4-....

    What gives?


    And I'll also say that the survey needs to be IDIOT proof and without a second thought to the numbering system. It should state unequivocally that using a "1" designations means that you want it to be you're #1 priority. Period.
    By NOT stating that, it leaves it up to interpretations that could be 180degrees off what the survey designer intended.


    Oh and before I get internetz b!tch slapped.....SBTS ROCKS!!!
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  21. #46
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    You enter a number and it auto fills the rest but you can change anything. I haven't heard of any use issues with different browsers. I assume you are still able to adjust them as needed?


    >It should state unequivocally that using a "1" designations means that you want it to be you're #1 priority.<

    For your "#1 priority" I'd suggest using a #1.

    Thanks for your participation! Meanwhile, we've moved on to launching our $5 Bucks a Foot campaign where you can buy a few feet of trail or more and maybe walk away with your choice of a really really sweet Santa Cruz Bike. You can check it out at the SBTS website. $5 Bucks a Foot is back! | Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship

    ronski

  22. #47
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    DOH!!! I am an idiot. Right here. Here I am.

    Completely didn't notice that when I marked something with a "1" it MOVED it to the top of the list and shuffled the rest. Then when you pick "2" it shuffles into the #2 slot on the list.....genius!!


    OK...I got to go finish pulling my head out of you know where.....
    www.velocitybicycles.comWhere customers become friends, not simply a dollar sign.

  23. #48
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    Internal14- thanks for your support! Check out the $5 A Foot link when you get a chance. Let's build some trail!
    $5 Bucks a Foot is back! | Sierra Buttes Trail Stewardship

  24. #49
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    Good job! Done &

    Done. I think this thread is why I left CA.

    Let the record show that riding is more fun then internetz dick size debates, however fun those may be for some.

    ...but seriously folks, increase the goddam peace and lets focus on building great trail and building a great MTB community.

    SBTS has done so much for us, let's keep up the support.
    - -benja- -

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronski View Post
    Another loop option that is easier and has little to no hike a bike is to climb Mills then descend some combination of Bear Lake Trail, Long Lake Trail, Grassy Lake Trail, Smith Lake Trail and Gray Eagle Creek Trail.
    Reviving this to ask a question about this proposed route: What is the best way to get from the top of Mills Peak over to the Long Lake area? I have the SBTS map, and I don't see a bicycle-oriented trail connecting these areas. Do you just ride gravel/4x4 roads south, then west, from the peak back to Gold Lake Highway? Thanks for any help!

    Edit: OK, I found another thread which referenced the map for the Lost Sierra Endurance Run, and that shoes how to connect over to Long Lake. Pretty much like I thought from the map. In the words of Emily Litella - never mind!
    Last edited by DaveBro; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:28 PM.

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