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  1. #1
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    New signage at Auburn - No E-Bikes

    Thanks to Amy M. for posting this on IG. I'm not sure when they went up but it's there now.
    New signage at Auburn - No E-Bikes-20170315_205018.jpg

  2. #2
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    For once I'm totally ok with signs banning certain bikes.

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    I would welcome more signs like that!
    Such a long long time to be gone
    and a short time to be there

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    You realize what's going to happen right? Somebody with a disability is going to sue. A big chunk of your tax dollars will go into their account and then you'll get to pay to take the signs down. The eBikes represent such an eminently reasonable accommodation to certian disabled persons, I can't see it going any other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    You realize what's going to happen right? Somebody with a disability is going to sue. A big chunk of your tax dollars will go into their account and then you'll get to pay to take the signs down. The eBikes represent such an eminently reasonable accommodation to certian disabled persons, I can't see it going any other way.
    Mammoth bar is just down the road so there is access for Ebikes in that general area so I don't see an issue.

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    It just real politic. In a world where a private company like Southwest is compelled to allow you to bring your dog onboard because of your need for "emotional support", there's no way the State is going to be able to bar somebody with a legitimate medical condition (lyme, heart issue, post-polio, etc) because they use a bike that can provide a few extra watts. Its pretty tough to make a case that that accommodation is unreasonable, when the total wattage put down by the kid with the hole in their heart including the motor and battery is less than the Pro/Expert guys lay down.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    You realize what's going to happen right? Somebody with a disability is going to sue. A big chunk of your tax dollars will go into their account and then you'll get to pay to take the signs down. The eBikes represent such an eminently reasonable accommodation to certian disabled persons, I can't see it going any other way.
    No they are not, there are quite a few activities that disabled people cannot do. Good grief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    You realize what's going to happen right? Somebody with a disability is going to sue. A big chunk of your tax dollars will go into their account and then you'll get to pay to take the signs down. The eBikes represent such an eminently reasonable accommodation to certian disabled persons, I can't see it going any other way.
    Doubtful.
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    This is going to be unpopular but this is really dumb. E-bikes are nothing like motorcycles, They are not out ripping up trails or even going up hills at crazy high rates of speed. You still have to pedal and it is still ridden like a typical Mt Bike.

    I have a buddy that is a disabled vet from our days in the military. He was shot in the leg on one of our deployments which has left him with limited function in that leg. He uses an E-bike so we can still ride together. I would love for one of you to come tell me to my face that he can not ride because he is on an E-bike trying to live a healthy normal lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantTurd View Post
    No they are not, there are quite a few activities that disabled people cannot do. Good grief.
    Go tell that to the ADA.

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    I completely agree with mzorich -- it's unreasonable to deny people an accommodation that does not negatively impact others. I don't want to ride an e-bike, but fully support any user who wants to ride one to help offset a disability.


    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    This is going to be unpopular but this is really dumb. E-bikes are nothing like motorcycles, They are not out ripping up trails or even going up hills at crazy high rates of speed. You still have to pedal and it is still ridden like a typical Mt Bike.

    I have a buddy that is a disabled vet from our days in the military. He was shot in the leg on one of our deployments which has left him with limited function in that leg. He uses an E-bike so we can still ride together. I would love for one of you to come tell me to my face that he can not ride because he is on an E-bike trying to live a healthy normal lifestyle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by California_Dave View Post
    that does not negatively impact others.
    I think this is where many of us have problems with ebikes. It's a somewhat subjective thing, granted, but there is fear that allowing these could be used against us by other user groups to dismantle the access that we've been fighting over for years. So before people get all "internet tough guy" about it consider the issues. I seriously doubt anyone is taking the "no, YOU don't get to do this sport" tack. It's about the machine, not the person.

  13. #13
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    We haven't had a good argument over ebikes in at least a month. I was getting withdrawal symptoms.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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    ^^ The rule is we have to alternate e-bike and mountain lion discussions.

    Bstrummin- Yep, it's already being used against us for wilderness access.

    Everybody doesn't get to do everything everywhere forever. As for people with disabilities, if they're not able to get themselves out of a park without assistance when their e-bike dies, then they shouldn't be there either.



    VV It's coming!
    Last edited by dirtvert; 03-16-2017 at 12:57 PM.
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk.

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    pretty bummed that EmptyBeer hasn't shown up and proclaimed his endless love of e-bikes in this thread...... yet.

    Rumor has it, he's sponsored by haibike!

  16. #16
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    Here's a video from July 2011 that has the same sign in the same place ;-)



    https://youtu.be/4E68gAP8t58?t=12s

    I can't believe all the damage ebike poachers have caused in ASRA since 2011! They probably caused Stagecoach to drop 4 feet in that one area, cause they are so heavy. Plus all the unsanctioned sanitization the ebikers are doing because they don't have technical bike riding skills. Those ebike poachers are probably riding up WST to Foresthill too... ensuring real bikes never get access to that trail. Its all their fault!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ The rule is we have to alternate e-bike and mountain lion discussions.



    Everybody doesn't get to do everything everywhere forever. As for people with disabilities, if they're not able to get themselves out of a park without assistance when their e-bike dies, then they shouldn't be there either.



    VV It's coming!
    My buddy can get himself out of whatever situation he is in he just can not pedal a bike up steeper hills or for long periods of time with out his E-bike. And according to the ADA every opportunity has to be afforded to someone with disabilities to enjoy activities and a normal life Every hunting refuge in this state has ADA blinds so people can duck hunt and there is specific places where only people with disabilities can deer hunt.

    People say the state won't get sued over this but there is a lot of money involved when it comes to ADA compliance in this state. ADA lawsuits are easy to win and lawyers know that.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    pretty bummed that EmptyBeer hasn't shown up and proclaimed his endless love of e-bikes in this thread...... yet.

    Rumor has it, he's sponsored by haibike!
    I don't have any love for ebikes, Adrian. I just don't have irrational fears about them. Part of that is because I actually rode a couple at Prairie City and educated myself. I certainly am concerned they are a serious, semantic threat to all the efforts being put forth to gain access to trails bikes have long been prohibited from, but regular bikes/bikers are doing a fine job making sure those trail will remain off-limits to any kind of bicycle for many more years to come. I don't appreciate you calling me out with your attacks or sarcasm on mtbr lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    My buddy can get himself out of whatever situation he is in he just can not pedal a bike up steeper hills or for long periods of time with out his E-bike. And according to the ADA every opportunity has to be afforded to someone with disabilities to enjoy activities and a normal life Every hunting refuge in this state has ADA blinds so people can duck hunt and there is specific places where only people with disabilities can deer hunt.

    People say the state won't get sued over this but there is a lot of money involved when it comes to ADA compliance in this state. ADA lawsuits are easy to win and lawyers know that.
    So if his Ebike motor goes out, he is stranded in the wilderness? Great point and another reason to ban them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I don't have any love for ebikes, Adrian. I just don't have irrational fears about them. Part of that is because I actually rode a couple at Prairie City and educated myself. I certainly am concerned they are a serious, semantic threat to all the efforts being put forth to gain access to trails bikes have long been prohibited from, but regular bikes/bikers are doing a fine job making sure those trail will remain off-limits to any kind of bicycle for many more years to come. I don't appreciate you calling me out with your attacks or sarcasm on mtbr lately.
    Dude, your bear is empty? Filler up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantTurd View Post
    So if his Ebike motor goes out, he is stranded in the wilderness? Great point and another reason to ban them.
    The guy can walk he just doesn't walk at a brisk pace and uses a cain most of the time to assist him. I guess by this rational then we should say if a biker crashes and injures themselves enough then they shouldn't ride a bike either

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    This is going to be unpopular but this is really dumb. E-bikes are nothing like motorcycles, They are not out ripping up trails or even going up hills at crazy high rates of speed. You still have to pedal and it is still ridden like a typical Mt Bike.

    I have a buddy that is a disabled vet from our days in the military. He was shot in the leg on one of our deployments which has left him with limited function in that leg. He uses an E-bike so we can still ride together. I would love for one of you to come tell me to my face that he can not ride because he is on an E-bike trying to live a healthy normal lifestyle.
    First off, I think that sign has always been there.

    While I would never tell your buddy that he cant ride an e-bike, I think he is a perfect example of a proper user, I've got no problem telling you to your face that he cant ride where it is expressly not allowed. I don't poach illegal trails and I don't ride in wilderness because it is expressly not allowed. I will fight to change those laws, but will abide by the rule of law until they are changed. That's the way society works, you don't get to make the rules up as you go because they suit your narrative. Don't like the rules? Take the time to fight for access.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ The rule is we have to alternate e-bike and mountain lion discussions.!
    Don't forget complaining about roadie group rides slowing down our tractors. Does OP get e-socks if this one hits 100?

    Also, pretty sure I've seen those signs on highway onramps. Damn, can't ride my imaginary e-bike on 101!

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  24. #24
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    If somebody crashes on every ride and can't self-rescue, then, no, they should not mountain bike! Everybody needs to be able to get themselves back to the trailhead if they have a mechanical. If a person is truly disabled and can self-rescue then I don't think many people would have a problem with it. But this discussion is really about the general public, not the exceptions. I think ADA rules will supercede individual park rules.

    Also, everything isn't affected by ADA. It's not like N* has trails set up for riders with severe disabilities!
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I don't have any love for ebikes, Adrian. I just don't have irrational fears about them. Part of that is because I actually rode a couple at Prairie City and educated myself. I certainly am concerned they are a serious, semantic threat to all the efforts being put forth to gain access to trails bikes have long been prohibited from, but regular bikes/bikers are doing a fine job making sure those trail will remain off-limits to any kind of bicycle for many more years to come. I don't appreciate you calling me out with your attacks or sarcasm on mtbr lately.
    Sorry you took a negative tone to it Jeff, that wasn't my intent. But this thread had been up for awhile without your religiously-prompt pro-ebike stance. For what it's worth, you certainly come across way more pro-ebike than anti-fear.

    So, you're not sponsored? Bummer, I wanted to borrow that thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantTurd View Post
    Dude, your bear is empty? Filler up!
    Are you crazy? You'll get mauled!
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    The guy can walk he just doesn't walk at a brisk pace and uses a cain most of the time to assist him. I guess by this rational then we should say if a biker crashes and injures themselves enough then they shouldn't ride a bike either
    I agree: if someone crashes and injures themselves enough they shouldn't ride a bike.

  28. #28
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    Has anyone actually had a negative encounter with an e-biker, due to the e-part of the bike? And no, I'm not talking about getting passed on an uphill.

    I'm pretty sure the negative feelings are due to concerns about trail access, rather than negative encounters due to safety or environmental issues. We should keep that in mind when spewing forth on the internet, lest our comments inspire the HOHA crowd.

    Can't we all just agree that the unicycle mountain bikers are the true weirdos? As hardcore and badass as they are...all I can say is...why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Sorry you took a negative tone to it Jeff, that wasn't my intent. But this thread had been up for awhile without your religiously-prompt pro-ebike stance. For what it's worth, you certainly come across way more pro-ebike than anti-fear.

    So, you're not sponsored? Bummer, I wanted to borrow that thing!
    I disagree with your assessment. I guess since you live by your very public mantra that "All trails are open", you are the biggest ebike access supporter in the NorCal forum. Maybe you can get your own sponsorship with that.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzorich View Post
    People say the state won't get sued over this but there is a lot of money involved when it comes to ADA compliance in this state. ADA lawsuits are easy to win and lawyers know that.
    Lot of money involved...yup, a veritable goldmine for some people who take advantage of a poorly written law and loophole their way into fortune....such as that Serial ADA Lawsuit Filer.

    At it's heart, the ADA is a good thing...I have seen improvements that have helped disabled family members that would not have been done if it was not for the ADA, but there is a lot that is wrong with how the law is interpreted and enforced. As usual for anything involving politicians, the intent was right but the deployment was a f*ckup factory.

    Mzorich, as far as you and your buddy, thank you for your service in the military.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    Can't we all just agree that the unicycle mountain bikers are the true weirdos? As hardcore and badass as they are...all I can say is...why?
    No, not going to agree with you there. The TRUE hardcore badass weirdos of the mountain bike world are the recumbent mountain bikers.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  32. #32
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    No, no, no. Tandems are weird X 2.**



    ** with the exception being conjoined twins
    Friends don't let friends ride e-"bikes" on dirt.

    Nature is not a sidewalk.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    No, not going to agree with you there. The TRUE hardcore badass weirdos of the mountain bike world are the recumbent mountain bikers.
    But what about recumbent mountain e-trikes?

    Hang on tight – Outrider USA's electric recumbent trikes can go up to 40 mph

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I disagree with your assessment. I guess since you live by your very public mantra that "All trails are open", you are the biggest ebike access supporter in the NorCal forum. Maybe you can get your own sponsorship with that.
    I'll email A-town immediately for sponsorship opportunities!

    Sorry you're having a rough day Empty, cheer up man! Glad to hear you aren't pro e-bike though, a ton of us thought you were.

    Keep fighting the good fight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    I don't have any love for ebikes, Adrian. I just don't have irrational fears about them. Part of that is because I actually rode a couple at Prairie City and educated myself. I certainly am concerned they are a serious, semantic threat to all the efforts being put forth to gain access to trails bikes have long been prohibited from, but regular bikes/bikers are doing a fine job making sure those trail will remain off-limits to any kind of bicycle for many more years to come. I don't appreciate you calling me out with your attacks or sarcasm on mtbr lately.
    You two need to chill. That's enough skinny white guy on skinny white guy crime here on the interwebs, you're starting to frighten the children.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    I'll email A-town immediately for sponsorship opportunities!

    Sorry you're having a rough day Empty, cheer up man! Glad to hear you aren't pro e-bike though, a ton of us thought you were.

    Keep fighting the good fight!
    Your ongoing assumptions and jabs are annoying. I'm not having a rough day. I'm as cheerful as can be. I'm not anti-ebike except with regard to Wilderness access, as I know the intent of the Wilderness Act is for those lands to be enjoyed without motors to assist in getting in, around and out. For the "ton" of you who think I'm pro-ebike, nope! I'm pro-use trails safely and courteously, regardless of your mode of use. Trying to pin the downfall of mt. biking on the ebikes is silly, when every single concern also applies to normal mountain biking.

    Sorry, Sean. Ebike bickering is good for MTBR.com's ad rates. Maybe I should get a sponsorship from FC

  37. #37
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    We don't have a "Popcorn" gif, so I used that. Someone please make a good "Watching/Popcorn" gif for this sort of mountain bike topic. Know what I mean? Chewing on a powerbar, partaking in a safety break, something like that, for our own use to reply with?

    Apologies for the slight detour.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Sorry, Sean. Ebike bickering is good for MTBR.com's ad rates. Maybe I should get a sponsorship from FC
    Man, just think if we were all tooling around with MTBR.com socks... (hint hint, FC).

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    Back on topic, I say we test the methodology and logic to this debate. Seeing as I know the man behind Vintage Electric from my shop management days, maybe we could convince Andrew to throw a loaner with knobbies at me/us for a true "scientific" test?

    *Is it wrong that when I saw this version in person I said "Holy hell, I want one now."?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Allan View Post
    First off, I think that sign has always been there.
    Been there for awhile, i agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    Thanks to Amy M. for posting this on IG. I'm not sure when they went up but it's there now.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Google street view June 2016 that sign was there.

  42. #42
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    FWIW that sign is not the appropriate wording to "ban" Class 1 or Class 2 electric bicycles (e-bikes). By the new CA law those types e-bikes are not "motorized bicycles" and would be exempt. The sector superintendent could post orders banning them (or permitting Class 3!) but the wording would need to be correct for a citation to stick.

    Don't shoot me; I'm just the messenger.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Your ongoing assumptions and jabs are annoying. I'm not having a rough day. I'm as cheerful as can be. I'm not anti-ebike except with regard to Wilderness access, as I know the intent of the Wilderness Act is for those lands to be enjoyed without motors to assist in getting in, around and out. For the "ton" of you who think I'm pro-ebike, nope! I'm pro-use trails safely and courteously, regardless of your mode of use. Trying to pin the downfall of mt. biking on the ebikes is silly, when every single concern also applies to normal mountain biking.

    Sorry, Sean. Ebike bickering is good for MTBR.com's ad rates. Maybe I should get a sponsorship from FC
    Sounds like you are definitely having a bad day if you keep thinking I'm out to make you mad. Have a beer, dude!

    Stoked to hear your stance, you often straddle the middle on issues and was under the "assumption" based on all your posts that you were for e-bikes everywhere. I'm happy to be wrong.

    I hope this post and my opinion don't annoy you more. Beers on me if you wanna chat more on this, I've got a growler that needs a fill at Mraz.

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    Ebike apolitical question for those in the know more than I am. The ones I've ridden are for all intents and purposes Xc/ trail bikes. There is a new brand being advertised in Truckee that is a full on dh sled with an emotor and tons of travel, claimed top speed of 50 mph. One of the trails I manage is a long super fast descent that can be full of kids hikers and dog walkers. It isn't shuttle able so gets many fast all mountain riders on much lighter bikes. I can't figure you'd go much faster on this e dh rig but I don't want people going any faster on that trail really. So, 1. Is this 50 mph e rig in a different category regs wise than a Levo, and 2 do you think I need to worry my pretty little head about them?
    Thanks

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    Ps jcwages, I came by and stunk up your office for about an hour this morning, but you Jeff and Jeff were out- too cool for work or something like that. I had a meeting at snc.
    Pps rode from Russell road after that. Trails are magnifique!

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    I just rode with my 66 year old dad who just started riding last year and has 50 years of hard physical labor and Moto injuries to deal with. We could never ride together without his ebike. He is still way slower than me even on the ebike. We flip of those signs and ride on. With zero harm to anyone or anything and having some great father son moments in the fleeting years of his ability to do those things.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Svahn View Post
    Ebike apolitical question for those in the know more than I am. The ones I've ridden are for all intents and purposes Xc/ trail bikes. There is a new brand being advertised in Truckee that is a full on dh sled with an emotor and tons of travel, claimed top speed of 50 mph. One of the trails I manage is a long super fast descent that can be full of kids hikers and dog walkers. It isn't shuttle able so gets many fast all mountain riders on much lighter bikes. I can't figure you'd go much faster on this e dh rig but I don't want people going any faster on that trail really. So, 1. Is this 50 mph e rig in a different category regs wise than a Levo, and 2 do you think I need to worry my pretty little head about them?
    Thanks
    Absolutely in a different category if it can do 50 (on level ground assumed). Straight up an electric motorcycle; send them to an OHV park.

    A Turbo Levo is a Class 1 electric bicycle (20 mph max); Spesh does make some Class 3 bikes like the urban Turbo S (28 mph max).
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

    Windows 10, destroying humanity one upgrade at a time.

  48. #48
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    Thank you Moe Ped for providing facts. And by the way, those "No motorized bicycles" signs have been posted at many parks and public schoolyards for decades, referring to mopeds or similar.

  49. #49
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    I assumed it was a new sign since Amy practically lives on those trails. But please keep up the banter. I need sox!

  50. #50
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    I hate the accessibility argument because I am handi-capable to ride my moped any where you can ride your bike? That seems like a paved slope opposed to a slippery slope to sanitizing everything.

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