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  1. #101
    Axe
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    Midpen's Bond Issue - Can / Should We Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by the other Anne View Post
    As a matter of fact, I DO like increased ranger enforcement. I get annoyed by scofflaws bombing down shared trails. Particular targets of my ire are scofflaws who bomb down shared trails, then blame their victims because the victims should have realized that scofflaws ride on that particular trail.
    What? Victims? What victims?

    The only truly dangerous things on trails are horses.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Hope you like increased ranger enforcement, like we just got in Marin.
    I do not care about enforcement. I care about my tax money being wasted with zero benefit to myself.

  3. #103
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    Here's an important part of the bond measure that's worth reading...

    "Proposition AA was passed under the rules of Proposition 39, which directs that the Board of Trustees appoint an Independent Citizens' Oversight Committee (ICOC) to monitor bond expenditures. This Committee is responsible for providing oversight of the Districtís use of Proposition AA bond proceeds and reporting to the Board and public on their findings. Specifically, the ICOC will ensure that all funds are used in support of the projects included in the bond measure and not for unspecified projects, general operating expenses, or teacher salaries. The ICOC will also inspect facilities and grounds, review cost-saving measures, and review the annual independent audits that are required of general obligation bond funds."

  4. #104
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    Scofflaws and their blatant disregard for 15 MPH speed limits!!!
    I'm not sure how this works.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean SVMTB View Post
    Here's an important part of the bond measure that's worth reading...

    "Proposition AA was passed under the rules of Proposition 39, which directs that the Board of Trustees appoint an Independent Citizens' Oversight Committee (ICOC) to monitor bond expenditures. This Committee is responsible for providing oversight of the Districtís use of Proposition AA bond proceeds and reporting to the Board and public on their findings. Specifically, the ICOC will ensure that all funds are used in support of the projects included in the bond measure and not for unspecified projects, general operating expenses, or teacher salaries. The ICOC will also inspect facilities and grounds, review cost-saving measures, and review the annual independent audits that are required of general obligation bond funds."
    lqtm. you either quoted a school board measure or mid pen needs to get better at plagiarizing*. either way nice job doing your homework guys...

    *http://www.sduhsd.net/documents/Depa...2004-22-14.pdf

  6. #106
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    So, who's on the ICOC? And...how has "Proposition AA was passed under the rules of Proposition 39, which directs that the Board of Trustees appoint an Independent Citizens' Oversight Committee (ICOC)" when the voting hasn't even happened yet? Also, it just says they have to use the money for the specified projects. It doesn't say every project has to be funded. What happens if they spend all the money to repave Mt. Umunhum road and then say "oh sorry about that, we can't make any mtb trails for you because the money is all gone".

  7. #107
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    What a coincidence! Maybe they hired the same lawyer : ) Either way, it's a part of the Measure AA. The ICOC will hold the board accountable for their actions, which I know was a concern for a lot of people on this thread.

  8. #108
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    What happens when the ICOC consists of equestrians, sierra clubbers, and previous board members? What can we do to ensure that we have at least one MTB proponent on the ICOC?

  9. #109
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    Midpen's Bond Issue - Can / Should We Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I do not care about enforcement. I care about my tax money being wasted with zero benefit to myself.
    That's almost the definition of government.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by beaverbiker View Post
    What happens when the ICOC consists of equestrians, sierra clubbers, and previous board members?
    It will be business as usual. Foothills pony housewives, Marin hysterical pseudo-environmentalists and ex-bureaucrats. And a token IMBA guy summarily ignored and ready to "be part of the process".

  11. #111
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    Midpen's Bond Issue - Can / Should We Help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It will be business as usual. Foothills pony housewives, Marin hysterical pseudo-environmentalists and ex-bureaucrats. And a token IMBA guy summarily ignored and ready to "be part of the process".
    You mean Peninsula hysterical pseudo-environmentalists. They live in even bigger houses, have larger carbon footprints than some counties in rural America, but drive Teslas to show they care.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    but drive Teslas to show they care.
    Only when they're not driving their F650 with horse trailer up to the new skeggs concrete landing zone instead of riding their horse up the mtn thru wunderlich, huddart, or any of the other horse only parks.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    Scofflaws and their blatant disregard for 15 MPH speed limits!!!
    "If speeding is outlawed, only scofflaws will speed." ~ J. Biafra

    "Where's the law, Drew?!" ~ B. Reynolds (or anyone on B. Reynolds)
    Last edited by dirtvert; 05-15-2014 at 09:39 PM.
    Why?

    Because we like the taste of freedom; because we like the smell of danger. ~ E. Abbey

  14. #114
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    The Board appointing the "independent" committee is an oxymoron. What if the hens were allowed to appoint the foxes to watch over them? They'd appoint compliant vegetarians!

    $300m is way too much with a noncommittal "priorities list." They should be funded like a startup: $10m at a time with very specific milestones, or they find a new gig.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruzSS View Post
    By voting no you would be saying you don't want more trails or more protected areas above (and in) the Valley. What's to be gained by that?

    Thanks,
    Alex Anderson
    Voting "no" is not a binary decision to say "no more trails". If the measure fails, they can go back and propose a more detailed plan and budget, with lower costs for specific milestones and schedules. Operate it like a start-up, not a cushy bureaucracy that's disconnected from the hand that feeds them. Oh, and put a few pennies towards saving the iconic concrete cube!
    The case for voting no on Measure AA: Other Voices

  16. #116
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    We have met the enemy and he is us...

    I can't help but read this thread and think of this line from the article below

    "While the sport of mountain biking has many awesome supporters both in industry, clubs and individual volunteers, it has just as many naysayers, and obstructionists. In fact I would venture to say there is more energy spent in getting our own community to work for change than our adversaries. In many cases we are our own worst enemies."

    From: Universal Klister: Farewell Francis Maguire! Franks Last day at IMBA.

    And of course I'll be told that his opinion isn't relevant because he works for the enemy - IMBA
    Support trails, support access. Join IMBA and your local advocates - SVMTB. www.svmtb.org

  17. #117
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    Assuming AA passes I encourage you to apply to be on the oversight committee. It would be nice to see a flood of applications from riders.
    It would have been nice to see a flood of riders at the Vision meetings, too. If we had just 10-15 more riders at 2 of the meetings I went to we would have had the majority of participants in the room.
    User groups who show up in numbers at the meetings have more say than those who don't. The hikers and equestrians learned this a long time ago.
    Support trails, support access. Join IMBA and your local advocates - SVMTB. www.svmtb.org

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruzSS View Post
    Assuming AA passes I encourage you to apply to be on the oversight committee. It would be nice to see a flood of applications from riders.
    It would have been nice to see a flood of riders at the Vision meetings, too. If we had just 10-15 more riders at 2 of the meetings I went to we would have had the majority of participants in the room.
    User groups who show up in numbers at the meetings have more say than those who don't. The hikers and equestrians learned this a long time ago.
    Yes! Please post the application link, when the time comes. I went to the "(we don't want to) save the Umunhum cube" meeting and got my first taste of MROSD.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruzSS View Post
    I can't help but read this thread and think of this line from the article below

    "While the sport of mountain biking has many awesome supporters both in industry, clubs and individual volunteers, it has just as many naysayers, and obstructionists. In fact I would venture to say there is more energy spent in getting our own community to work for change than our adversaries. In many cases we are our own worst enemies."

    From: Universal Klister: Farewell Francis Maguire! Franks Last day at IMBA.

    Dude, we aren't against IMBA. We're against throwing valuable dollars at projects that give us no benefit. It's been that way for a long time so until something changes at a higher level don't be surprised when people aren't willing to open their wallets for a government agency.

    And of course I'll be told that his opinion isn't relevant because he works for the enemy - IMBA
    Dude, we aren't against IMBA. We're against throwing valuable dollars at projects that give us no benefit. It's been that way for a long time so until something changes at a higher level don't be surprised when people aren't willing to open their wallets for a government agency.

    I wonder how much money IMBA has received from Bay Area mountain bikers and how many miles of trail they have single handedly built or acquired access to.

  20. #120
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    No benefit - do you really mean that?
    Have you read this? Top 25 Future Open Space Projects
    There will be more trails for bikers, even bike-specific trails at Skeggs. Rather than blanket dismissal of the Measure I'd like to see the mountain bike community attend the meetings and contribute ideas. This will be especially important if the measure passes and the plans move into the detail phase.
    Support trails, support access. Join IMBA and your local advocates - SVMTB. www.svmtb.org

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CruzSS View Post
    No benefit - do you really mean that?
    Have you read this? Top 25 Future Open Space Projects
    There will be more trails for bikers, even bike-specific trails at Skeggs. Rather than blanket dismissal of the Measure I'd like to see the mountain bike community attend the meetings and contribute ideas. This will be especially important if the measure passes and the plans move into the detail phase.
    Do you really not understand what we're saying? No one is doubting that they came up with a list of Top 25 Future Open Space Projects...but that's all it really is. Where is the proper oversight? They could easily spend all $300mil on Mt Umunhum road and a couple parking lots.

  22. #122
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    Citizens and their lobbying arms are the oversight - it's sort of how democracy works. Sorry I can't guarantee and outcome for you but let me know where that has happened and we'll follow that model with your help.
    Support trails, support access. Join IMBA and your local advocates - SVMTB. www.svmtb.org

  23. #123
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    MROSD is not a democracy.

  24. #124
    It's about showing up.
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    The IMBA comment about working to develop support within our own community is on the money. I have been saying this for years and working much harder locally than IMBA ever has. Many local groups have and IMBA has just recently arrived in the Southland to pick up the pieces of ROMP before it simply evaporated entirely due to local apathy.

    While the Marin Bicycle Trails Council disappeared for similar reasons, A4B represents a grassroots vigor and MCBC a more formalized and civically connected energy. The BTCEB is robust as is the Sonoma group and MBoSC. We all share the conundrum of building the community and getting them to represent. The BTCEB, of the aforementioned, predates IMBA, co-founded IMBA, and have a carried on the fight for 27 years.

    We have learned many things but this is critical to understand:

    These processes will go on with or without us.

    The Measure will pass. The pile of money will appear. Getting our influence near it is the solution. That means we have to show up and be heard and do this for the years to come. Having SVMTB at the tables is a start. With continued work there will be another mtb advocate in that group. It won't happen unless someone takes this first step.

    And, no, we will not get the kinds of things we want for years to come. Yet, if we don't work now it will never happen.
    Last edited by Berkeley Mike; 05-18-2014 at 11:22 PM.
    I don't rattle.

  25. #125
    We need more wax
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    I looked at the list and have a couple of comments/questions:

    1) the details for every list item seems to be vague. Building trails at Skegg's. Are there actual details for the proposed trails? Are any of them specific to mt biking?

    2) Introduce grazing. Is this supposed to be good? I thought that cattle grazing was a big environment no-no. Especially when compared to the impact from mt biking. Why should the public back increased grazing?

    3) Since it needs a 2/3 vote do we really think it will pass?
    "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?" - Rodney King

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